'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

my friend

Armstrong Drops Fight Against Doping Charges


“There comes a point in every man’s life when he has to say, ‘Enough is enough,’ ” Armstrong said in a statement.



“The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today — finished with this nonsense.”



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-ends-fight-against-doping-charges-losing-his-7-tour-de-france-titles.html


Lance's decision means he will be stripped of his seven Tour titles, the bronze medal he won at the 2000 Olympics and all other titles, awards and money he won from August 1998 on.

strokeslover

Yes, but he's still great

I still don't know what to make of Armstrong, is he admitting defeat or is his reason for dropping the case true.

tfrancer

A sad day for cycling fans.

retalivity

Im confused...for a man who has fought for 15 years just to give up now...it is indeed a sad day for cycling

frostie500

No

tfrancer wrote: »

A sad day for cycling fans.

Why? If LA doped he was arguably the biggest fraud ever in sports. Look at the success that he had, money that he made, the fame that he achieved. He transcended his sport and became one of the planet's most recognisable people. If he did all this while doping, regardless of the fact that it's obvious that the rest of the contenders also doped at the time, he deserves to lose his titles.

I've always loved cycling and I was never a fan of Lance. I always thought that he doped but deep down inside I always hoped that I was wrong. I wanted to be proven wrong and for LA to have been a clean racer.

As it is his statement that he is doing it for his family is rubbish. He is dropping the case because he doped and now knows that he has no way out.

This isnt a sad day for the sport it's a landmark day. That's not to say that this is an easy day for cycling but it shows again that there are efforts to remove doping from the peleton and even if the UCI were unwilling to become involved in this case and did all they could to protect LA at least we can see the there are some organisations looking to ensure that we have a clean sport

alfalad

No

This will have a profound effect on cycling as the UCI were seen to be backing him. Where does Pat stand now i wonder? Strange that he would throw in the towel at this stage but maybe leaving it as it is means he can protest his innocence to the public and the evidence that USADA had gathered will not become public. If that evidence had been made public it would have made Lance look very bad (you'd have to assume or else USADA would not have brought the case) and meant he would have less chance of saving his reputation.

But this is an excellent day in many ways, for all those people Lance made his enemy for speaking out, Emma O'Reilly, Betsy Andreu, Greg LeMond Paul Kimmage, David Walsh etc etc the list goes on.

spokesman

No

I think it may be some evidence about to come into the public domain that has changed his mind, it certainly is a full u-turn on his stance. I always thought in my opinion he doped too, and the majority of the team mates that helped him on the mountains, as has been the case with some of them.

I think giving that monies to the UCI will come into the mix too.;)

AstraMonti

No

I should have placed a bet for his comment...

Btw huge thread here.

kincsem

No

Lance Armstrong may lose his seven Tour de France wins.
Where do the Euro rules now stand on the "don't wear the jersey unless you earned it"?
I have a nice Dauphine Libere polka dot jersey.

Kilkenny14

No

Full report on this evening's news on Lance dropping his act are at this link - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/24/lance-armstrong-fight-doping-charges

Personally, I hope his marks a watershed in the fight against doping in cycling, but I am not convinced it will.

AstraMonti

No

This is far from over yet. We need to wait and see what UCI will do now.

alfalad

No

Maybe an idea to merge, but have a feeling this will deserve it's own thread. Wish Europe would wake up cause I really want to know what the UCI will say.

Oryx

No

I wonder will he convince his fans that this is really because of his lack of faith in a fair process and not a tacit admission of guilt?

Diarmuid

No

Oryx wrote: »

I wonder will he convince his fans that this is really because of his lack of faith in a fair process and not a tacit admission of guilt?

Not a chance!

Diarmuid

No

alfalad wrote: »

Wish Europe would wake up cause I really want to know what the UCI will say.

Don't hold you breath. The UCI have been asleep for 30 years.

Captain Havoc

His statement

hardCopy

No

tfrancer wrote: »

A sad day for cycling fans.

Personally, I'm far from sad.

hardCopy

No

kincsem wrote: »

Lance Armstrong may lose his seven Tour de France wins.
Where do the Euro rules now stand on the "don't wear the jersey unless you earned it"?
I have a nice Dauphine Libere polka dot jersey.

Was he ever euro? Black socks?

At least now we know it wasn't about the bike

Brian?

No

Is that it over now? I really hope so.

Ullrich 4 tours? Zulle? Who else?

Harrybelafonte

hardCopy wrote: »

Was he ever euro? Black socks?

At least now we know it wasn't about the bike

Unfortunately the way he has left it now, unless some evidence is made public it's at the "we'll never know" stage. His fans can still defend him in the way they always did, 500-600 tests not positive, most tested athlete in history etc. Now they can just repeat this "Enough is enough". However, any "fan" who tries to defend him now will also need to face up to what LA needs to, or may have, a clear lack of realism.

Just to add LA never brought fans to cycling, he brought fans to LA.

hardCopy

No

Wasn't it shown recently that he couldn't have been subjected to that many tests? I can't find the article where they added them all up, but all the news outlets seem top be carrying the 500-600 figure.

average_runner

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Unfortunately the way he has left it now, unless some evidence is made public it's at the "we'll never know" stage. His fans can still defend him in the way they always did, 500-600 tests not positive, most tested athlete in history etc. Now they can just repeat this "Enough is enough". However, any "fan" who tries to defend him now will also need to face up to what LA needs to, or may have, a clear lack of realism.

Just to add LA never brought fans to cycling, he brought fans to LA.

Not against lance or for lance. But if they really have evidence to get him why didnt they get him to court and swear under oath he didnt take anything?

Also how can they strip him of titles with no positives results? You cant trust the word of other cheats.

average_runner

Not against lance or for lance. But if they really have evidence to get him why didnt they get him to court and swear under oath he didnt take anything?

Also how can they strip him of titles with no positives results? You cant trust the word of other cheats.

C3PO

I'm sure this will leave Walsh, Kimmage and many others felling vindicated and I don't blame them .... personally I'm left feeling more than a little disappointed .... yet another bubble burst!!!

Beasty

No

Can we try and keep discussions on today's "development" to this thread

If anyone wants the background to this case, the old thread is here

Beasty

No

average_runner wrote: »

Also how can they strip him of titles with no positives results? You cant trust the word of other cheats.

He did fail tests, but managed to get the UCI to accept backdated medical prescriptions

It was not just "cheats" that provided evidence of his systematic doping

Anyway, circumstantial evidence is often good enough in the criminal courts, which require a much higher standard of "proof" than this does

Morrisseeee

No

I imagine LeMond (& a few others) will be waking up this morning after an all-nighter (on the beer) and singing........."it's a beautiful daaaaaay yeah" /in his best Bono voice :pac:

LA (aka Juan Pelota) still has his 'awesome' fans :rolleyes:

It's a pity he decided to pack it in on his biggest challenge yet, the evidence that would have came out would have been very interesting to hear

Hermy

No

tfrancer wrote: »

A sad day for cycling fans.

Why?

iregk

No

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Just to add LA never brought fans to cycling, he brought fans to LA.

That's actually an excellent point. It was always about LA never about cycling.

average_runner

Beasty wrote: »

He did fail tests, but managed to get the UCI to accept backdated medical prescriptions

It was not just "cheats" that provided evidence of his systematic doping

Anyway, circumstantial evidence is often good enough in the criminal courts, which require a much higher standard of "proof" than this does

So every year he won the tour de france he failed a drug test?

Beasty

No

kincsem wrote: »

Lance Armstrong may lose his seven Tour de France wins.

According to David Walsh speaking on Newstalk this morning, he will lose them as it's entirely within the power of the USADA to do this and they have indicated they will.

Presumably the question of whether anyone else is "promoted" in his place is down to the UCI and/or Tour organisers though

The tax man

No

Enjoyed this tweet this morning,

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end...

The end? It's only just started.:pac:

Chips Lovell

No

This isn't the end of it. Armstrong appears to have decided that he's on a hiding to nothing with USADA and wants to shift hearings into the courts or to the UCI or CAS. He failed on the jurisidiction front, but now it appears he'll challenge USADA's authority to impose a sanction:

"USADA has no authority to proceed in this matter for all of the reasons we have set out in our previous pleadings, correspondence and my presentation in Federal Court. After Mr. Armstrong filed his federal court action, UCI, the international federation for cycling, and USA Cycling, the national governing body for cycling in the United States, both confirmed that UCI, not USADA, has the exclusive authority and jurisdiction in this matter," attorneys Tim Herman and Robert Luskin wrote.

They stated that USADA cannot move forward with any punishment until the UCI's independent review panel sees the collected dossier of evidence against Armstrong and settles the dispute regarding its jurisdiction in the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

"At an absolute minimum, UCI and USADA should go to CAS to resolve the jurisdiction issue before any proceedings begin, a solution offered by UCI but rejected by USADA."

They stated that Armstrong would "respect the decision of UCI with every confidence that his position should and will be vindicated through independent review by authorities with lawful jurisdiction over this matter."

In fact, the attorneys threatened to USADA if it "makes any public statement claiming, without jurisdiction, to sanction Mr. Armstrong, or to falsely characterize Mr. Armstrong's reasons for not requesting an arbitration as anything other than a recognition of UCI jurisdiction and authority, USADA and anyone involved in the making of the statement will be liable."

Beasty

No

average_runner wrote: »

So every year he won the tour de france he failed a drug test?

I didn't say that - he's a proven doper, and that's good enough for me

Hermy

No

average_runner wrote: »

So every year he won the tour de france he failed a drug test?

Not failing a drug test does not mean the rider is clean.
Riis won the 1996 Tour without failing a test.

quagmired

Yes, but he's still great

kimmage will be trilled. He might flog a few more books and recruit some more readers to his bile. He was always much better at writing sensationalist tripe with a very very loose connection to reality than he was at cycling (average? No mate, you were rubbish).
Truth is we'll never know. There is zero evidence. Which makes me laugh so much at all the smug idiots who tell you 'oh I knew all along'. They're just attention craving losers who want to be seen on the right side of the fence rathe than deal with the complex matters of reality, facts and proof.

C3PO

Can't wait to see how UCI and McQuaid react to this! Will they just wash their hands of Armstrong .... "Wasn't our decision, nothing we can do!"? Will they strip him of the titles .... will they award them to somebody else?

I'm also willing to bet that David Walsh has another book waiting in the wings!

shels4ever

average_runner wrote: »

So every year he won the tour de france he failed a drug test?

The first year he did as far as I know but gave a back dated prescription, not sure how often this happened.

Chips Lovell

No

The other thing is that if he's now sanctioned, it'll open him up to a number of possible court cases. I'm sure SCA Promotions will be very interested in this. And I'm wondering if a lot of sponsors will be looking for their money back.

DeadMan1

No

Shane Stokes interview with Tygart fills in some detail. Says the evidence will be release when time is right

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12712/Travis-Tygart-Interview-Armstrongs-results-from-August-1st-1998-will-be-stripped.aspx

death1234567

No

average_runner wrote: »

So every year he won the tour de france he failed a drug test?

No he failed a drugs test in 1999, the year of his first tour win. If the UCI had taken action then then perhaps this whole shambles could have been averted. If you know anything about cycling then you know LA doped systematically and is arguably the biggest dope cheat in the history of sport.

Its not surprising at all that LA has come with this drivel statement. Faced with overwhelming evidence against him of course he was not going to fight it and let all that evidence come out. Now he will continue to play the witch hunt card and his deluded and/or ill informed "Fans" will continue to support him. Its a shame that he will never get exposed completely or be man enough to admit what he did.

Possibly a great watershed day for cycling if the right actions are taken. I don;t believe they will be though.

RobFowl

No

Beasty wrote: »

I didn't say that - he's a proven doper, and that's good enough for me

I intend to waste no more of my life thinking about LA.

I read this http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hello-mum-this-is-going-to-be-hard-for-you-to-read-1753008.html this morning and, for me at least, it puts LA's sordid antics in perspective.

07Lapierre

No

Beasty wrote: »

According to David Walsh speaking on Newstalk this morning, he will lose them as it's entirely within the power of the USADA to do this and they have indicated they will.

Presumably the question of whether anyone else is "promoted" in his place is down to the UCI and/or Tour organisers though

LA doesn't seem to think they can take away his titles:
"The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority."

seamus

That was going to be my question.

Surely only UCI and the IOC can strip his TdF/Olympic titles? While the USADA and CAS can no doubt make a request for the withdrawal, presumably the final word rests with the world governing bodies?

Flandria

No

quagmired wrote: »

kimmage will be trilled. He might flog a few more books and recruit some more readers to his bile. He was always much better at writing sensationalist tripe with a very very loose connection to reality than he was at cycling (average? No mate, you were rubbish).
Truth is we'll never know. There is zero evidence. Which makes me laugh so much at all the smug idiots who tell you 'oh I knew all along'. They're just attention craving losers who want to be seen on the right side of the fence rathe than deal with the complex matters of reality, facts and proof.

And I'm trilled for you as well...

07Lapierre

No

In fact, LA seems quite adamant that they can't take away his achievements!

"USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart."

Does this mean the American Sports History books will be different to European Books...God what a mess!

morana

No

I am both saddened and delighted. Sad for all the cancer sufferers who put their hope in him and looked up to him who he conned but delighted that the cheat has been caught. Delighted also for Nobby O'Reillys sister Emma, bassons and all the rest he bullied.

Reekwind

No

quagmired wrote: »

There is zero evidence

What a silly assertion. Of course there is evidence. You think LA is about to be stripped of his titles despite a lack of evidence? Leaving aside allegations of failed tests, there witness testimony and we know that US Postal was systematically doping during these years

For me that's the crucial bit. Regardless of LA's own doping, that his lieutenants Landis and Hamilton were guilty is damning in itself. LA rode to victory as part of a highly organised and massively talented team. If these guys were doped up to the skies... well, at the very least LA's wins are tarnished

Which makes me laugh so much at all the smug idiots who tell you 'oh I knew all along'. They're just attention craving losers who want to be seen on the right side of the fence rathe than deal with the complex matters of reality, facts and proof.

Something that is much better served than blanket denials and omerta...

buffalo

No

RobFowl wrote: »

I intend to waste no more of my life thinking about LA.

I read this http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hello-mum-this-is-going-to-be-hard-for-you-to-read-1753008.html this morning and, for me at least, it puts LA's sordid antics in perspective.

I'm in tears at my desk here, thanks Rob.

Hermy

No

RobFowl wrote: »

I intend to waste no more of my life thinking about LA.

I read this http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hello-mum-this-is-going-to-be-hard-for-you-to-read-1753008.html this morning and, for me at least, it puts LA's sordid antics in perspective.

Off topic but that dead soldier chose to go to war.
My thoughts are with the Afghan people who had no choice in the matter.

average_runner

Beasty wrote: »

I didn't say that - he's a proven doper, and that's good enough for me

Didnt say u did, was just asking