ERRRMMMM

mountai

Just been browsing a site on the net , as you do!!. IKCC lads recently celebrated a 50th anniversary run in honour of 50 years of the Cobra. Some fantastic pictures on their site. Lots of ZV plates on view. Ran a few of them on a Reg Check site and unless I"m mistaken, ERRMMM !!!!

bbsrs

mountai wrote: »

Just been browsing a site on the net , as you do!!. IKCC lads recently celebrated a 50th anniversary run in honour of 50 years of the Cobra. Some fantastic pictures on their site. Lots of ZV plates on view. Ran a few of them on a Reg Check site and unless I"m mistaken, ERRMMM !!!!

Please elaborate why ERRMMM!!!!

Kenny Logins

mountai wrote: »

Just been browsing a site on the net , as you do!!. IKCC lads recently celebrated a 50th anniversary run in honour of 50 years of the Cobra. Some fantastic pictures on their site. Lots of ZV plates on view. Ran a few of them on a Reg Check site and unless I"m mistaken, ERRMMM !!!!

Eh?

carchaeologist

Is it that most of the Cobras weren't actually Cobras.?

Sids Not

mountai wrote: »

Just been browsing a site on the net , as you do!!. IKCC lads recently celebrated a 50th anniversary run in honour of 50 years of the Cobra. Some fantastic pictures on their site. Lots of ZV plates on view. Ran a few of them on a Reg Check site and unless I"m mistaken, ERRMMM !!!!

You mean that "its not exactly what it says on the tin"..........;)

Think you'll find this with most kit cars....even if they do have new chassis's...maybe thats where all those brown log books go...

mountai

bbsrs wrote: »

Please elaborate why ERRMMM!!!!

Go through the exercise and see what YOU come up with.

I wonder if there are Insurance issues with these cars? Hard to understand ,a car declared as 1200 - 1500 CC on the Book ,in reality, being 3.5 Litres and upwards. Seems to be endemic, at least 30% are "Not what it says on the tin"
if I"m reading the situation correctly. Several cars with No number plates at ALL.

antodeco

This thread feels like it was posted by my dog on red bull!

Capri

mountai wrote: »

Go through the exercise and see what YOU come up with.

I wonder if there are Insurance issues with these cars? Hard to understand ,a car declared as 1200 - 1500 CC on the Book ,in reality, being 3.5 Litres and upwards. Seems to be endemic, at least 30% are "Not what it says on the tin"
if I"m reading the situation correctly. Several cars with No number plates at ALL.

Are you saying in effect that there are 'Escort 1.3 chassis/regs' being used for Cobra replicas with 3.5 V8's in them ?:eek:

mountai

Capri wrote: »

Are you saying in effect that there are 'Escort 1.3 chassis/regs' being used for Cobra replicas with 3.5 V8's in them ?:eek:

Nooo never said that , but there is one nice Cobra with a couple standing beside it that doesnt look anything like 1975 Orange Spitfire that the reg search spits out !!!!

Redrocket

so maybe the reg search is broken?

bbsrs

Redrocket wrote: »

so maybe the reg search is broken?

No but maybe the base car used for the kit is the reg still used by the kit car , although going by the list, some reg checks threw up,it seems like you can use anything you want to build a Cobra replica.The ones that were built by DAX or AK come up as DAX or AK as the manufacturer column of the reg check.

Rover 2600 sport
Spitfire 1500
DAIMLER
PILGRIM SUMO
MG MIDGET
JAGUAR
JAGUAR XJ6
FORD GRANADA

Sids Not

Most modern kit cars have their own (new) chassis. few exceptions being beetle or triumps based cars....so they should have new plates....:eek:

bbsrs

Sids Not wrote: »

Most modern kit cars have their own (new) chassis. few exceptions being beetle or triumps based cars....so they should have new plates....:eek:

In ireland new plates = big vrt + big road tax for high emission cars so I can see the attraction of using vintage registration detail. How they get over insurance and other legalities I don't know.

Basil Fawlty

They are the registrations of the car they are based on.

mountai

ciarancapri wrote: »

They are the registrations of the car they are based on.

Explaine please ---- Dont see how a Cobra can be based on a MG Midget . They have nothing in common, no chassis to adapt and I dont believe for one minute that the drive train is from a Midget . Am I missing something here or is This nest of Cobras really a nest of Vipers ?!!

Sids Not

ciarancapri wrote: »

They are the registrations of the car they are based on.

Exactly..but you have to actually use the "base" chassis to keep the reg...otherwise its a new car.....

corktina

mountai wrote: »

Explaine please ---- Dont see how a Cobra can be based on a MG Midget . They have nothing in common, no chassis to adapt and I dont believe for one minute that the drive train is from a Midget . Am I missing something here or is This nest of Cobras really a nest of Vipers ?!!

just another manifstation of the ringing of classic cars, which will eventually lose us all our priviledges. None of these cars operating on borrowed old log books have valid insurance and it only a matter of time before someone gets caught out and the bubble bursts.

shagman

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

mountai

shagman wrote: »

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

A valid point.Probably explains why there are a few of them with NO reg plates.If THESE cars are "TRACK CARS" then should they be on the roads at all?Same applies to the cars with cloned reg plates. Doesnt seem to be confined to just the Cobras.There is one 7 replica that seems to have an old Cortina plate.

corktina

shagman wrote: »

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

well afaik all vehicles imported into the state have to be registered and VRT paid irrespective of whether they go OTR or not.

Capri

mountai wrote: »

Explaine please ---- Dont see how a Cobra can be based on a MG Midget . They have nothing in common, no chassis to adapt and I dont believe for one minute that the drive train is from a Midget . Am I missing something here or is This nest of Cobras really a nest of Vipers ?!!

Arkley SS - kit car based on Midget/Sprite

http://arkleyss.dk/arkleygalleri.htm


As for Dodge VIPERS - haven't seen any kits yet !:D:D

bbsrs

corktina wrote: »

shagman wrote: »

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

well afaik all vehicles imported into the state have to be registered and VRT paid irrespective of whether they go OTR or not.

Why would a car that doesn't need a registration plate such as a track car need to be registered and pay vehicle registration tax?
If it comes from outside the EU import tax and vat would have to be paid but I wouldn't think vrt would be a legal requirement . If it was then all dirt bikes, quads and other mechanically propelled vehicles would need reg and vrt also.

Sids Not

bbsrs wrote: »

Why would a car that doesn't need a registration plate such as a track car need to be registered and pay vehicle registration tax?
If it comes from outside the EU import tax and vat would have to be paid but I wouldn't think vrt would be a legal requirement . If it was then all dirt bikes, quads and other mechanically propelled vehicles would need reg and vrt also.

Would also show up how many track bikes/cars were accuired illegally.....:eek:

corktina

exactly. A "track day car" with no ID could easily be a stolen car, thats why they need to be registered, and the VRT paid. That most get away with not doing this is not a reason for not doing it.

bbsrs

corktina wrote: »

exactly. A "track day car" with no ID could easily be a stolen car, thats why they need to be registered, and the VRT paid. That most get away with not doing this is not a reason for not doing it.

It doesn't make sence that somebody has to pay massive vrt just to reg a car to prove to others it hasn't been stolen . What about a 200k touring car should that be vrt'd to prove it's not stolen.
If a car is to be driven on public roads it must be vrt'd , to use it off public roads doesn't concern revenue.
The recovery of stolen property is a different thing altogether .

corktina

well yes, strictly it should, if its capable of being a road-going vehicle.

w124man

Emm lads .....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056711894

Read the first post!

You will find a bit where it says something about unregistered vehicles being confiscated ........ :cool:

Capri

corktina wrote: »

well afaik all vehicles imported into the state have to be registered and VRT paid irrespective of whether they go OTR or not.

There ARE some legal but strange things going on that I've 'heard' of. BusEireann get some tax relief on buses that are used on cross-border services for some reason , and another one I heard of was car rental co's getting refunds of vrt/vat on cars brought in and used here for the season and then re-exported North


Just a different one for Corktina - any Cortinas you've lusted after but haven't owned (Uren Savage, XR6 ,??? )

Sids Not

corktina wrote: »

well yes, strictly it should, if its capable of being a road-going vehicle.

..But only if it IS going to be used on the road...........

corktina

Capri wrote: »

There ARE some legal but strange things going on that I've 'heard' of. BusEireann get some tax relief on buses that are used on cross-border services for some reason , and another one I heard of was car rental co's getting refunds of vrt/vat on cars brought in and used here for the season and then re-exported North


Just a different one for Corktina - any Cortinas you've lusted after but haven't owned (Uren Savage, XR6 ,??? )

Lots, but not any more. Too dear (and my S is rarer than an XR6 anyway :-)

corktina

Sids Not wrote: »

..But only if it IS going to be used on the road...........

but what if it is brought into the counry for track use but later sold and the new owner wants to use it on-road? If it's capable of road use, the Law says VRT must be paid. (not me , you understand)

bbsrs

corktina wrote: »

Sids Not wrote: »

..But only if it IS going to be used on the road...........

but what if it is brought into the counry for track use but later sold and the new owner wants to use it on-road? If it's capable of road use, the Law says VRT must be paid. (not me , you understand)

What law says that?
Lots of vehicles ,sold new in this country ,are capable of road use but aren't subject by law to vrt because they won't ever be used on road.

Sids Not

corktina wrote: »

but what if it is brought into the counry for track use but later sold and the new owner wants to use it on-road? If it's capable of road use, the Law says VRT must be paid. (not me , you understand)

In order to make it "Capable of road use" would mean it must have lights ,speedo, road tyres etc.....
I bought a race bike, but i had to make it road legal, inc. all the above plus pay vrt.....luckily the seller had the v5 document which made it possible....otherwise i'd have walked away...;)

mountai

As a member of the IKCC for some years, I have become disalusioned with the attitude of Officers of the club with the evolving growth of incorrectly registered kit cars on the road . Insurance is a big worry for me. I have had corrispondance with two of these people and am shocked at the attitude portrayed . For my troubles my posts in the Club Forum have been deleted by the Moderator as "slanderous". Here is an answer by one of the officers to my querie on the integrity of the club.


I never frequent Boards.ie, full of trolls these days.

I really don't think the integrity of the club is something to worry about. The club as you well know always promotes the building and using of kit cars in Ireland to the best of their ability. What route people decide to register their car in the end is no concern for the club. We have worked long and hard over the last 10yrs to keep kit cars on the road and will always fight to do so in these challenging and changing times. Our insurance club scheme is just one example of that. It took years to get to were we are now with the Insurance Policy. Any kit car using the Club Insurance Scheme is completely covered so long as they declare the correct Make/Model of the Kit and the exact Engine size when being vetted, no matter what reg. is on the car.

I wouldn't worry yourself. These kind of threads from people with little better to do pop up from time to time across all areas of motoring, whether it be Kit Cars, Classic Cars, Modified Cars, Racing Cars etc. etc.

Note what the answer says about reg.

corktina

of course I guess it suits them, but boy will they squeal should Kit Cars be banned as a result of someone bending, nay , totally smashing the Rules.

Elsewhere on the net n the past day or two I have read of proposals to ban all modified cars, Kit Cars certainly come under this heading!

corktina

Sids Not wrote: »

In order to make it "Capable of road use" would mean it must have lights ,speedo, road tyres etc.....
I...;)

many track day cars are simply standard cars used on the track...

bbsrs

corktina wrote: »

Sids Not wrote: »

In order to make it "Capable of road use" would mean it must have lights ,speedo, road tyres etc.....
I...;)

many track day cars are simply standard cars used on the track...

And many are not.

Sids Not

I could be wrong but if theres any grey area about a vehicles details disclosed to an insurance company then that vehicle wont be covered...i.e an insurance company will issue an insurance cert with the car details inc. the foreign plate reg. , but (afaik) the vehicle MUST be registered in YOUR name to be covered....
Am i wrong.....

mountai

My belief is that the vehicle must be LEGALLY registered to be covered. The question is ---- Is a Cloned Vehicle capable of being legally registered?? . I will clarify this tomorrow when I speak to the Insurance Co that underwrights th IKCC Kit Car Policy.

w124man

shagman wrote: »

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

The revenue are very very clear about this issue. It does not differentiate between 'track cars' and 'road cars' ..... it clearly says unregistered vehicles.
So if you own an unregistered vehicle in the state you are liable for VRT.

bbsrs

w124man wrote: »

shagman wrote: »

The assumption being made is that these are all road going cars. Given that we are talking about Cobras quite a few may be track only cars and only ever see a public road from the back of a trailer. In this case vrt/reg/tax don't matter AFAIK.

The revenue are very very clear about this issue. It does not differentiate between 'track cars' and 'road cars' ..... it clearly says unregistered vehicles.
So if you own an unregistered vehicle in the state you are liable for VRT.

I'll ask revenue to clarify.

Sids Not

w124man wrote: »

So if you own an unregistered vehicle in the state you are liable for VRT.

In theory if you you dont register it YOU dont own it though.........

mountai

The following is a direct answer from the Insurance Officer in the IKCC re an enquiry I made re the validity of the Club Insurance scheme. Note the referance to "Registration" .
The second paragraph relates to the recent Cobra Run. This "Event" is clearly listed in the Clubs Event section. The first post in the Forum (under Runs) inviting people to participate comes from the same Officer . Now he is denying that this Run was "Official" . Rats jumping the ship IMHO !!!


I believe my answer to your main question was answered clearly but let me reiterate, once a kit car owner, when applying for insurance through the Club scheme, states up front to the insurance company that the vehicle being insured is a kit car and supplies all of the relevant kit & Engine details on it then the insurance taken out for it is 100% legit, regardless of how it is registered


I would also like to point out that last Sundays Cobra run in the Phoenix park was not an IKCC organized event but put together by an individual and that a high percentage of the cars on display there were not official members of the club (only 7 of the 16 Cobras were) but individuals who were specifically contacted by Charlie to try and get as many Cobras together for the 50th anniversary event.

Regards

corktina

sounds like an Official Approval of dodgy registered cars to me!

Sids Not

Its just this country's officials half-arsed attitude to everything motor related....maybe its a good thing...;);)

w124man

Sids Not wrote: »

In theory if you you dont register it YOU dont own it though.........

Nope! Purchasing a vehicle and registering a vehicle are completely different. Registration of a vehicle is not proof of ownership, its simply a legal requirement

mountai

Well I"ve seen it all now!! . The photos on the recent Cobra Run that the IKCC organized were doctored on their site yesterday. All the DODGY NUMBER PLATES have been edited out of the images and several photos have been removed. Is it not a crime to cover up a crime --- or is it just a conspiracy ?. Stable Door Lads!!!!

Sids Not

w124man wrote: »

Registration of a vehicle is not proof of ownership, its simply a legal requirement

Its also a legal requirement to disclose the facts of a vehicle to an insurance company too...but....;)

carchaeologist

mountai wrote: »

Well I"ve seen it all now!! . The photos on the recent Cobra Run that the IKCC organized were doctored on their site yesterday. All the DODGY NUMBER PLATES have been edited out of the images and several photos have been removed. Is it not a crime to cover up a crime --- or is it just a conspiracy ?. Stable Door Lads!!!!

Well well....

bbsrs

mountai wrote: »

Well I"ve seen it all now!! . The photos on the recent Cobra Run that the IKCC organized were doctored on their site yesterday. All the DODGY NUMBER PLATES have been edited out of the images and several photos have been removed. Is it not a crime to cover up a crime --- or is it just a conspiracy ?. Stable Door Lads!!!!

I'm sure you'll be told it's a victimless crime , what's the problem, if the state reg and car tax system wasn't such robbery they wouldn't have to do it .

corktina

bbsrs wrote: »

I'm sure you'll be told it's a victimless crime , what's the problem, if the state reg and car tax system wasn't such robbery they wouldn't have to do it .

Im the victim and so is everyone who pays up the right amount at the right time.