Tailgating and Road Rage

Iwannahurl

SuperInfinity wrote: »

...if there's a person in front "leading the way" then by keeping up with them, (NOT tailgating yourself obviously!) you'll avoid all surprising hazards because they will slow down in time.

:eek:


Try starting a thread with that statement over in Motors...

--Kaiser--

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Perfectly legitimate, I would think.

However, even I would probably go (a bit) ballistic if they decided to do so in a, um, relaxed fashion in the wrong lane...

Nope, it's not. Why do you think you can fail a driving test by 'failing to make progress' i.e. driving too slow for the conditions?

Fuinseog

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Perfectly legitimate, I would think.

However, even I would probably go (a bit) ballistic if they decided to do so in a, um, relaxed fashion in the wrong lane...

I have never seen anyone drive at that speed in the fast lane but I find it odd that people here find it outrageous that I should drive at 120 and stay in the right lane. people not breaking the speed limit are a pain.

I notice some people driving at 50 through housing estates where children play on the roads. an accident waiting to happen.

MagicSean

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Nope, it's not. Why do you think you can fail a driving test by 'failing to make progress' i.e. driving too slow for the conditions?

I don't think that's failing to make progress. Not making a turn when it is clear to do so, not taking off at traffic lights when they turn green. They are failing to make progress.

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have never seen anyone drive at that speed in the fast lane but I find it odd that people here find it outrageous that I should drive at 120 and stay in the right lane. people not breaking the speed limit are a pain.

The right lane is for overtaking. If you are not overtaking you should not be in it. it is not your job to enforce speed limits. And you have no idea why a person may be breaking a speed limit either so who are you to make a judgement on what speed they should be doing.

--Kaiser--

MagicSean wrote: »

I don't think that's failing to make progress. Not making a turn when it is clear to do so, not taking off at traffic lights when they turn green. They are failing to make progress.

I know several people who failed their tests for basically, driving too slow, not for being too cautious at roundabouts etc...

The right lane is for overtaking. If you are not overtaking you should not be in it. it is not your job to enforce speed limits. And you have no idea why a person may be breaking a speed limit either so who are you to make a judgement on what speed they should be doing.

+a million on this one

dukedalton

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I'm ecstatic too. The terminological inexactitude is in "just like".
).

Pick the bones out of that!

rogieop

Fuinseog wrote: »

I have never seen anyone drive at that speed in the fast lane but I find it odd that people here find it outrageous that I should drive at 120 and stay in the right lane. people not breaking the speed limit are a pain.

I notice some people driving at 50 through housing estates where children play on the roads. an accident waiting to happen.

Are you thick? They are not called the fast and slow lanes.

Its the driving land and overtaking lane.

If you are not overtaking another vehicle get the **** out of the right hand lane.

Seriously you are part of the main problem on Irish motorways and you dont even realise it.

Debs_Mann

I you are being tailgated the chances are you are driving to slow and hogging the outside lane in your own little world. When it comes to being let out are you looking people in the eye, or looking elsewhere.

bluecode

I said earlier I don't tailgate and considering I normally drive at or slightly above the speed limit am rarely tailgated.

But occasionally I come across absolute idiots who drive well below the limit, usually on twisty difficult to pass roads. I don't tailgate them because they're unpredictable just wait my chance to overtake.

But sometimes you meet a real loon. They drive below the speed limit and when you get a chance to pass. They actually sound the horn and flash the lights at you. One guy did it to everyone who passed him. This even happened on a motorway. It was unbelievable.

I got one good once though. One nut was holding up everyone. When it was my turn, he flashed his lights at me. So I slowed to find out what he wanted;). Really slow, boy did he back away. At that point everyone behind him starting passing us. I got some nice waves and smiles. I reckon he was a psycho who enjoyed holding dozens of people up for no reason. Those people are dangerous.

Shenshen

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

I know several people who failed their tests for basically, driving too slow, not for being too cautious at roundabouts etc...

Check back, I've already posted the explanation of "failing to make reasonable progress". It refers almost exclusively to waiting too long after lights change, when merging into traffic, etc.
Not to not making the speed limit.

http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/progress.html

If you know people who failed for going too slow, it would have been either due to them waiting too long at a junction or at traffic lights, or simply to the tester being a dick.

Shenshen

rogieop wrote: »

Are you thick? They are not called the fast and slow lanes.

Its the driving land and overtaking lane.

If you are not overtaking another vehicle get the **** out of the right hand lane.

Seriously you are part of the main problem on Irish motorways and you dont even realise it.

It does tend to create bizzare situations... On the N25 between Midleton and Cork every morning, you do tend to find the left lane entirely empty, with everyone, and I do mean everyone, driving in the right lane.
Legally, I suspect people driving in the left lane would then have to stay back behind the cars in the right lane, as you are not alloed to undertake. As I only come on to this road at the Carrigtwohill junction though, I figure I simply have no other choice faced with the line of traffic on my right...

Procrastastudy

bluecode wrote: »

I said earlier I don't tailgate and considering I normally drive at or slightly above the speed limit am rarely tailgated.

But occasionally I come across absolute idiots who drive well below the limit, usually on twisty difficult to pass roads. I don't tailgate them because they're unpredictable just wait my chance to overtake.

But sometimes you meet a real loon. They drive below the speed limit and when you get a chance to pass. They actually sound the horn and flash the lights at you. One guy did it to everyone who passed him. This even happened on a motorway. It was unbelievable.

I got one good once though. One nut was holding up everyone. When it was my turn, he flashed his lights at me. So I slowed to find out what he wanted;). Really slow, boy did he back away. At that point everyone behind him starting passing us. I got some nice waves and smiles. I reckon he was a psycho who enjoyed holding dozens of people up for no reason. Those people are dangerous.

Why would someone driving at a speed they are comfortable with for their level of skill and performance of their vehicle make them an absolute idiot? The limit is exactly that a maximum. One day you're going to have an accident - say you were only doing the 'limit' and have a wake up call in court when it's explained to you its no defence.

Its one thing people driving dangerously its quite another for people to be taking a bit of care on an unfamiliar 'on twisty difficult to pass roads'.

Shenshen wrote: »

It does tend to create bizzare situations... On the N25 between Midleton and Cork every morning, you do tend to find the left lane entirely empty, with everyone, and I do mean everyone, driving in the right lane.
Legally, I suspect people driving in the left lane would then have to stay back behind the cars in the right lane, as you are not alloed to undertake. As I only come on to this road at the Carrigtwohill junction though, I figure I simply have no other choice faced with the line of traffic on my right...

Perfectly entitled to pass on the left where the right hand lane is moving significantly slower - its usually down to a junction ahead.

Cantona's Collars

Shenshen wrote: »

It does tend to create bizzare situations... On the N25 between Midleton and Cork every morning, you do tend to find the left lane entirely empty, with everyone, and I do mean everyone, driving in the right lane.
Legally, I suspect people driving in the left lane would then have to stay back behind the cars in the right lane, as you are not alloed to undertake. As I only come on to this road at the Carrigtwohill junction though, I figure I simply have no other choice faced with the line of traffic on my right...

You can 'undertake' using the left lane if the traffic in the right lane is moving slowly.

From the RSA website Rules Of The Road:

You may overtake on the left when

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

This is typical in Ireland,people are fascinated with driving in the right hand lane even though it's just meant for overtaking.Then they look bemused or angry when a faster moving vehicle suddenly appears behind them as they potter along at 80kph in the wrong lane.

Iwannahurl

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Nope, it's not. Why do you think you can fail a driving test by 'failing to make progress' i.e. driving too slow for the conditions?

The term used is "safe and reasonable progress" AFAIK.

Can you point to any authoritative source for your apparent belief that, say, driving at 90-100 km/h in the appropriate lane of a 120 km/h motorway is not "safe and reasonable progress"?

dukedalton

Iwannahurl wrote: »

The term used is "safe and reasonable progress" AFAIK.

Can you point to any authoritative source for your apparent belief that, say, driving at 90-100 km/h in the appropriate lane of a 120 km/h motorway is not "safe and reasonable progress"?

It's not safe and reasonable when you're cruising along at 120k/h and some fool is doing 90-100k/h and you have to brake or switch lanes suddenly because of them. Source: common sense.

Seems to be a line of defence on this thread that it's OK for people to do significantly less than the speed limit if that's their "level" of driving. This is complete nonsense. What is the point of having a driving test system? To ensure everyone on the road is at a certain standard, i.e. not plodding along at 90 on a motorway. Similarly, why are L drivers not permitted on a motorway?

Procrastastudy

dukedalton wrote: »

It's not safe and reasonable when you're cruising along at 120k/h and some fool is doing 90-100k/h and you have to brake or switch lanes suddenly because of them. Source: common sense.

Seems to be a line of defence on this thread that it's OK for people to do significantly less than the speed limit if that's their "level" of driving. This is complete nonsense. What is the point of having a driving test system? To ensure everyone on the road is at a certain standard, i.e. not plodding along at 90 on a motorway. Similarly, why are L drivers not permitted on a motorway?

Jesus the amount of poor drivers there are in this thread is staggering. If you have to slam on your brakes you shouldn't be on the road! You should have spotted it and adjusted your speed accordingly and planned your overtake.

Shenshen

dukedalton wrote: »

It's not safe and reasonable when you're cruising along at 120k/h and some fool is doing 90-100k/h and you have to brake or switch lanes suddenly because of them. Source: common sense.

Seems to be a line of defence on this thread that it's OK for people to do significantly less than the speed limit if that's their "level" of driving. This is complete nonsense. What is the point of having a driving test system? To ensure everyone on the road is at a certain standard, i.e. not plodding along at 90 on a motorway. Similarly, why are L drivers not permitted on a motorway?

By that logic, no lorries and coaches would ever be permitted to drive on roads with speed limits above 80kph....

dukedalton

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Jesus the amount of poor drivers there are in this thread is staggering. If you have to slam on your brakes you shouldn't be on the road! You should have spotted it and adjusted your speed accordingly and planned your overtake.

Who said anything about slamming on the brakes? Even following the "two second" rule, if you're travelling at 120k/h and the person in front moves out, if the car ahead of him is doing 30/30k/h less than you, they will cause you a hazard. And if you want to pedantic about it, check out what the RSA say about speed on a motorway:

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html

The point is, there is no excuse (other than inclement weather) for someone to be doing 30/40 k/h below the limit, as has been suggested. Why do we have a driving test system?

az2wp0sye65487

Muir wrote: »

I'm short. I need to sit as far forward as my seat allows to reach the pedals properly. Why would that mean I can't drive properly?

jessiejam wrote: »

Ya probably:p

In all seriousness though if you re-read my post you will see this-
Saying that I see an awful lot of women on the road driving cars that they can't drive properly practically sitting on the steering wheel their noses almost touching the windscreen. It takes all types really I suppose


If you can drive properly the nose touching off the windscreen doesn't matter!

Muir wrote: »

You either can or can't drive properly. Someone's nose practically touching off the windscreen isn't really relevant to their driving ability.
Are you referring to specific types of cars?

The further forward you sit, the closer to the steering wheel you are.
The closer to the steering wheel you are, the more your elbows are bent.
The more your elbows are bent the less movement you have in your arms.
If something unexpected happens on the road and you need to take evasive action you have a better chance of turning the wheel quickly with outstretched arms than bent arms close to your chest.

Try it there now. Bend your elbows (imagine your sitting right up on top of the steering wheel as if it's close to your chest) and pretend you're turning the wheel.

Now try it again only this time imagine the steering wheel is further away from you - so that you have to have your arms outstretched more to reach it....

Procrastastudy

dukedalton wrote: »

Who said anything about slamming on the brakes? Even following the "two second" rule, if you're travelling at 120k/h and the person in front moves out, if the car ahead of him is doing 30/30k/h less than you, they will cause you a hazard. And if you want to pedantic about it, check out what the RSA say about speed on a motorway:

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/joining-the-motorway.html

The point is, there is no excuse (other than inclement weather) for someone to be doing 30/40 k/h below the limit, as has been suggested. Why do we have a driving test system?

The driving test does not test Motorway driving. There are a host of reasons why someone may be traveling slowly. I still can't picture a scenario (other than cutting in from a slip road) where they would be the one causing a hazard. The person that causes a hazard is the one not adjusting his driving to the other traffic on the road. Slow down, change lanes when safe and overtake.

Iwannahurl

dukedalton wrote: »

How do you think the RSA come to decide a speed limit for a road? Presumably they do testing of some sort to decide what is safe/unsafe? (Otherwise, there would be no need for an RSA, presumably.)

dukedalton wrote: »

It's not safe and reasonable when you're cruising along at 120k/h and some fool is doing 90-100k/h and you have to brake or switch lanes suddenly because of them.

Source: common sense.

So, no source. Again.

The trouble with "common sense" is that what is common is not necessarily sensible, and what is sensible is not necessarily common.

I wouldn't rely on your version of common sense, that's for sure. Or on your understanding of the process of setting speed limits.

dukedalton

Procrastastudy wrote: »

The driving test does not test Motorway driving. There are a host of reasons why someone may be traveling slowly. I still can't picture a scenario (other than cutting in from a slip road) where they would be the one causing a hazard. The person that causes a hazard is the one not adjusting his driving to the other traffic on the road. Slow down, change lanes when safe and overtake.

Could you name any of these "host" of reasons? The driving test is to check that people are at a specified level of competence to handle a vehicle. If you don't have the competence to drive at over 100k/h on a straight road there is something seriously wrong.

Shenshen

dukedalton wrote: »

The point is, there is no excuse (other than inclement weather) for someone to be doing 30/40 k/h below the limit, as has been suggested. Why do we have a driving test system?

I don't know when or where you took your test, but in this country the test doesn't cover driving on motorways.
Nor are you allowed to drive on a motorway as a learner, not even with an instructor.

dukedalton

Iwannahurl wrote: »

So, no source. Again.

The trouble with "common sense" is that what is common is not necessarily sensible, and what is sensible is not necessarily common.

I wouldn't rely on your version of common sense, that's for sure. Or on your understanding of the process of setting speed limits.

What do you want a source for now? Me saying that someone driving 30/40k/m below the limit on a motorway is foolish? By the way, can you tell us something about how they set speed limits then so?

Out of interest, do you drive yourself?

dukedalton

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't know when or where you took your test, but in this country the test doesn't cover driving on motorways.
Nor are you allowed to drive on a motorway as a learner, not even with an instructor.

See my second last post (!)

Shenshen

dukedalton wrote: »

Could you name any of these "host" of reasons? The driving test is to check that people are at a specified level of competence to handle a vehicle. If you don't have the competence to drive at over 100k/h on a straight road there is something seriously wrong.

- They could be having engine problems which they hadn't noticed before.
- They could be having children in the car and are momentarily distracted by them
- They could simply not be feeling well
- They might have noticed something you haven't yet, such as a line of traffic behind the next corner, and have slowed down in anticipation

That's really just of the top of my head, I'm sure there are tons more reasons why people might not be going the speed limit at any given time.
So if they're not in the right lane on the motorway, why would it bother you how fast they're going?

dukedalton

Shenshen wrote: »

- They could be having engine problems which they hadn't noticed before.
- They could be having children in the car and are momentarily distracted by them
- They could simply not be feeling well
- They might have noticed something you haven't yet, such as a line of traffic behind the next corner, and have slowed down in anticipation

That's really just of the top of my head, I'm sure there are tons more reasons why people might not be going the speed limit at any given time.
So if they're not in the right lane on the motorway, why would it bother you how fast they're going?

For the first three of these, they should go into the hard shoulder.

For the last one, I haven't yet come across a motorway with a corner.

And it bothers me for the reason I outlined at the top.

Procrastastudy

dukedalton wrote: »

Could you name any of these "host" of reasons? The driving test is to check that people are at a specified level of competence to handle a vehicle. If you don't have the competence to drive at over 100k/h on a straight road there is something seriously wrong.

Some have already been mentioned:

Type of Vehicle
Issue with vehicle
Driver not happy with conditions for what ever reason
Child in the car

I believe the minimum safe speed in the UK on a motorway is considered to be 50MPH - I'm not sure what the Irish equivalent is (if there even is one) but with in reason there is no excuse to be an aggressive asshat (such as 'changing lanes suddenly') because of a lack of skill to drive in accordance with the conditions. Which would include other drivers by the way.

dukedalton

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Some have already been mentioned:

Type of Vehicle
Issue with vehicle
Driver not happy with conditions for what ever reason
Child in the car

I believe the minimum safe speed in the UK on a motorway is considered to be 50MPH - I'm not sure what the Irish equivalent is (if there even is one) but with in reason there is no excuse to be an aggressive asshat (such as 'changing lanes suddenly') because of a lack of skill to drive in accordance with the conditions. Which would include other drivers by the way.

See above! And presumably the person drivng 30/40k/h below the limit, forcing people to manoever around them, is not keeping up with the conditions!

Shenshen

dukedalton wrote: »

For the first three of these, they should go into the hard shoulder.

For the last one, I haven't yet come across a motorway with a corner.

Rules of the Road :

- You must not drive on any part of the motorway that is not a carriageway; for example a hard shoulder, except in case of emergency.
- You must not stop or park on any part of the motorway unless your vehicle breaks down or you are signalled by a Garda to do so.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/motorways/on-the-motorway.html

A slow-performing engine, screaming children or a headache are not emergencies.
And I'm sure you're lucky to drive only on perfectly straight motorways. The ones I've seen so far all had bends and inclines at some point.