Tourists ringing Christchurch Cathedral bells

billysweeney

So you think it will be beneficial in someway for society in general if some tool is still ringing a bell in a church in the 25th century? Maybe we should resurrect the tradition of burning witches at the stake, or ducking women to see if they were witches, or maybe hanging people in gibbets at the city walls..
Wake up and smell the 21st Century.. the days of church bells meaning anything to anyone are numbered.

username123

Alias G wrote: »

However you see fit by utilising existing infrastructure that has been there for centuries is a bit different from being an intentional pest.
If you live beside a cathedral I think you should expect to hear bells. If you live beside a railway, you should expect to hear trains disrupting your peace but its a fact of life. The smell from the Guinness brewery wrecks some peoples heads but they are not going to stop production for a few disgruntled residents. These are all part and parcel of the texture and fabric of the city so you can moan a you please but these things were here long before you and will most likely remain so long after you've gone.
I think the cathedral should execute caution regarding the hours of the day that they allow untrained people to chime the bells but that is about it.
Now that I think of it, I seem to recall a news story a couple of years back about a shortage of trained bell ringers available in recent times so perhaps this is also a good method of generating more interest in the skill and keeping the tradition going for a few more centuries.

What an absolute crock. I dont think anyone would be complaining about the melodious ringing of the bells by trained professionals. But the horrendous discordant screeching that goes on when untrained people do it has to be heard to be believed. Clearly youve been lucky enough not to hear it. Its shocking.

Alias G

billysweeney wrote: »

So you think it will be beneficial in someway for society in general if some tool is still ringing a bell in a church in the 25th century? Maybe we should resurrect the tradition of burning witches at the stake, or ducking women to see if they were witches, or maybe hanging people in gibbets at the city walls..
Wake up and smell the 21st Century.. the days of church bells meaning anything to anyone are numbered.

Its funding the continued restoration, preservation and maintenance of one of the most important architectural structures in the city...of course its beneficial.
The rest of your post is nonsense.

Alias G

username123 wrote: »

What an absolute crock. I dont think anyone would be complaining about the melodious ringing of the bells by trained professionals. But the horrendous discordant screeching that goes on when untrained people do it has to be heard to be believed. Clearly youve been lucky enough not to hear it. Its shocking.

I'm about the city on a daily basis. Cathedrals worldwide generate funds in a similar fashion and the money is put to good use. It really shouldn't be all that surprising.

username123

Alias G wrote: »

Cathedrals worldwide generate funds in a similar fashion and the money is put to good use.

Link to back that up?

P_1

Ok so am I right in thinking.

The trained bell ringers are fine with everyone

The untrained people paying to ring the bells and causing an unholy racket are the problem?

Has anyone suggested to CC that maybe they limit what bell a paying punter can ring, say they can only ring the bell that has the softest tone once?

kylith

They were supposed to be fitting mufflers to the bells, but I don't know if that's been done.

Sijucat

You lot are hilarious! I inquired at the cathedral whether it would be possible for my wife's foreign guests to take a belfry tour and I was told that they had ceased since September and would not be starting up again until May. So basically you are complaining about the trained bell ringers who you thought were tourists. C'est idiotic!! How very clever, you hate bell ringing and so, out of all the places to live in Dublin, you chose to live beside Christ Church?? The human mind boggles! I have an idea, for all you delicate little flowers and your poor wee ear drums, why not relocate to the Wesht of Eire and then you won't hear any more horrible bells, or noisy traffic or barking dogs or anything else for that matter. Oh hold on a minute, they have waves lapping on the shore and it also gets quite windy so you might hear a whoooosh and you wouldn't like it and then you'd have no one to complain to!! Anyway, thank heavens (pardon the pun) that both cathedral bells will stay ringing long after you lot have given up whinging and long after your whiny letters have all been binned. Fortunately for the rest of us who appreciate our Irish heritage and cultural institutions unlike you philistines. Yes, I'm looking at you 'youguessedit' - and stop stalking my profile or I'll have you reported!

Sijucat

P_1 wrote: »

Ok so am I right in thinking.

The trained bell ringers are fine with everyone

The untrained people paying to ring the bells and causing an unholy racket are the problem?

Has anyone suggested to CC that maybe they limit what bell a paying punter can ring, say they can only ring the bell that has the softest tone once?

:cool: The tourist bell ringing is only carried out during the summer months when there are actually tourists here. Whiging and moaning, however, is perennial!

Sijucat

billysweeney wrote: »

So you think it will be beneficial in someway for society in general if some tool is still ringing a bell in a church in the 25th century? Maybe we should resurrect the tradition of burning witches at the stake, or ducking women to see if they were witches, or maybe hanging people in gibbets at the city walls..
Wake up and smell the 21st Century.. the days of church bells meaning anything to anyone are numbered.

Oh dear, there are no words for you @BillySweeney other than YOU ARE A MUPPET!! And you wonder why no one in the council or Christ Church has bothered to respond to you? Also, exactly what does the 21st century 'smell' like? I wish someone would hang YOU in a gibbet, you might make more sense. You're not Baldric from Black Adder by any chance?

Mr Simpson

Sijucat, take a week off. Then read the charter before posting again

youguessedit

Sijucat wrote: »

I inquired at the cathedral whether it would be possible for my wife's foreign guests to take a belfry tour and I was told that they had ceased since September and would not be starting up again until May.

Sijucat wrote: »

:The tourist bell ringing is only carried out during the summer months when there are actually tourists here.

Both incorrect. Anyone who lives in the area knows that tours have continued throughout weekends since last summer. I would have thought that, having been a bell-ringer at Christ Church Cathedral yourself (see post #34), you would have been able to get more accurate information.

youguessedit

Now that the number of tourists is increasing, Christ Church Cathedral has begun ramping up the number of belfry tours at the weekend and is very shortly due to recommence tours during the week. As anyone who has read this thread will know, Nuala Kavanagh, Director of Operations at Christ Church Cathedral promised to have dampers (i.e. mufflers) fitted "which will vastly decrease the sound level". However, there has been delay after delay after delay. Eventually, dampers were promised by this spring but, as yet, there is no sign of them. Despite many calls for bell-ringing during tours to be halted until these dampers are available, Christ Church Cathedral have continued to allow their bells to be rung regardless.

Thankfully, Dublin City Council's Environmental Health Section have been investigating the matter on behalf of office workers and residents in the locality. They have legal powers to regulate the Cathedral's commercial activities and have been monitoring the situation since last September. If the promised dampers don't lessen the noise sufficiently, they will take matters in hand.

It's worth listing contact details for the Cathedral’s Director of Operations, the City Manager, local TDs and local councillors again, in case staff at the Cathedral continue with their delaying tactics or fail to live up to their promises entirely:

Nuala Kavanagh, Director of Operations, Christ Church Cathedral
Telephone: 677 8099, email: nuala.kavanagh@cccdub.ie
(Note that Cathedral staff do not consider a complaint about bell-ringing during a tour/a number of tours to be a complaint about bell-ringing during tours in general.)

Dublin City Council City Manager
Email: manager@dublincity.ie

Dáil Éireann TDs, Dublin South-East constituency
Lucinda Creighton (Fine Gael), email: lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie
Kevin Humphreys (Labour), email: kevin.humphreys@oireachtas.ie
Eoghan Murphy (Fine Gael), email: eoghan.murphy@oireachtas.ie
Ruairí Quinn (Labour), email: ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie

Dublin City Councillors, South East Inner City
Councillor (Ms.) Gerry Ashe (Labour), email: gerry.ashe@dublincity.ie
Councillor Kieran Binchy (Fine Gael), email: Kieran.Binchy@dublincity.ie
Councillor Mannix Flynn (Independent), email: mannix.flynn@dublincity.ie
Councillor Maria Parodi (Labour), email: maria.parodi@dublincity.ie


On a not unrelated matter, if you want to complain about excessive practice hours (i.e. other than Sunday morning bell-ringing for service which starts c. 10am and goes on for approx. 30 minutes) you can contact Nuala Kavanagh, above, or Alan Chantler, Noise Complaints Coordinator at the Central Council of Church Bell Ringers: complaints@cccbr.org.uk.

youguessedit

Nice little follow-up article by Dan Griffin in the Irish Times this morning (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/christ-church-bells-to-be-muffled-from-this-weekend-1.1371656). It appears that, finally, seven months after the Cathedral's Director of Operations first made her promise in this thread and in the media, dampers will be fitted to the bells rung by tourists during belfry tours. Finally, this venerable Christian organisation will actually do something tangible to demonstrate that they really are "...so sorry that the bell ringing tours have caused annoyance to our friends and neighbours". Although, how it took seven months to craft five leather pouches is beyond me.

This weekend, Dublin City Council's Environmental Health Section will monitor noise levels during tours. Whether the fitting of dampers in time for this surveillance is mere coincidence or not, it's certainly welcome. After nine months, we may finally see a return to (relative) peace and quiet. Well, let's just hope so.

youguessedit

More economies with the truth from a representative of the Cathedral yesterday on RTÉ Radio 1's News at One yesterday. The Ringing Master at the Cathedral, Leslie Taylor, stated that bell-ringing during tours lasts for 4 minutes only and that tours are one and a half hours apart. Last weekend, yes, that was the case - and for the first time only. Mr. Taylor's statement was simply not true for every other weekend since October last year and practically every day during the summer: Tours were every hour - or less - and bell-ringing during these tours lasted as long as 20 minutes. That's up to 20 minutes (average of 12, I'd say) of cacophony every hour or less throughout an afternoon. Documented, thanks to an early poster to this thread.

Perhaps Mr. Taylor meant to say that each group of 4-5 members of each tour rang the bells for 4 minutes. That would certainly be more like the truth.

cherryghost

Sounds more like it. Really irks me. I work nightshift a few times a month and the last thing I want is bells ringing consistently all day. Hate them.

youguessedit

Well, so much for Leslie Taylor's 4 minute statement on RTÉ Radio 1 News at One last Thursday: there was a 10 minute tour on Sunday afternoon. (10 minutes is not at all unusual for these tours.) So much for the dampers too: if they were used they were ineffective.

Thargor

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/complaints-could-silence-citys-bells-for-first-time-in-600-years-29225508.html

Dampners only on 5 of the 19 bells according to that.

youguessedit

Mr Taylor is at it again, I see: twisting the truth to try to discredit complainants and shame them into submission.

The dampers will be fitted to 5 bells only and only when tourists are ringing them. Dampers are small leather pouches that slip over the clapper. They are easily fitted and easily removed and there is excellent access to the bells. That, my friend, is the truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how representatives of such a venerable Christian organisation can be so adept at twisting the truth and telling porky pies in order to get their way. Shame on you.

washiskin

Anyone who was at "Messiah On The Street" on Fishamble St a couple of weeks ago certainly can tell Mr Taylor that the bells went off twice in an hour and almost drowned out the Concert entirely each time. At one point I wondered if it was being done on purpose :rolleyes:

youguessedit

As if designed to perfectly illustrate my comment at the end of post #80, two of the tours (that I witnessed) over the past two weekends lasted 10 and 18 minutes (not unusual) - the first a mere three days after Leslie Taylor, Ringing Master at Christ Church Cathedral, stated on RTÉ Radio 1's News at One:

"...four minutes of gentle chiming of bells." (http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20193804%3A135%3A25%2D04%2D2013%3A)

Let me also remind you of what Nuala Kavanagh, Director of Operations at the Cathedral has stated in correspondence with Dublin City Councillors, the Council's Environmental Health Section and Government Ministers - including Ruairí Quinn TD:

"Our visitors ring them for no more than 5 minutes, stopping after approximately 30 seconds to allow another group of four to take over." (http://s1353.photobucket.com/user/christchurchplace/media/ChristChurchCathedralletter231012.jpg.html)

and also on RTÉ Radio One's John Murray show on 5th October 2012:

"...for less than five minutes.". (http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A20029219%3A4502%3A05%2D10%2D2012%3A)

JustAThought

Your family must have been living in the area for over 1000 years to have owned your house before the cathedral was built & bells installed.

Or did you not notice when you were buying/leasing your appartments that there was in fact a historical cathedral with world renoun bells there -and another bell ringing cathedral up the street, not to mention at least two other churches with bells .

Perhaps a return to nazi Germany would suite?

username123

JustAThought wrote: »

Your family must have been living in the area for over 1000 years to have owned your house before the cathedral was built & bells installed.

Or did you not notice when you were buying/leasing your appartments that there was in fact a historical cathedral with world renoun bells there -and another bell ringing cathedral up the street, not to mention at least two other churches with bells .

Perhaps a return to nazi Germany would suite?

Why dont you read the thread?

The OP is not complaining about normal bell ringing by trained operators, but about tourists being allowed to ring the bells discordantly at any time of the day.

Clearly you havent heard it, its horrendous and its very disruptive to local peoples lives and businesses.

youguessedit

There was yet another example of the dishonesty of the statements made by representatives of the Cathedral (see post 82): during a tour on Bank Holiday Monday afternoon the bells were rung for a full 19 minutes.

The Hill Billy

No need for the Nazi references & also leave out the back-seat modding.

If anyone has a problem with a post - use the Report Post function & let a mod deal with it.

tHB

youguessedit

As any local resident (and business) will no doubt know, there have been great strides made towards resolution of this problem. Thanks to the follow-up article in the Irish Times in April and the intervention of Dublin City Council, Christ Church Cathedral has made good on it's promises and dampers are now in use for all tours. Tours are now generally quiet and much less intrusive (not quite the "silenced" representatives of the Cathedral stated in the media) but, for some reason, they can still be quite loud at times (I suspect that might be down to the enthusiasm and strength of the participant). So, all that is needed now is for the dampers to be improved somewhat for this issue to be resolved completely.

Thanks to all involved!

spurious

Good for you for sticking with this and seeing it through to (hopefully) the end.

youguessedit

Back to square one, particularly at weekends. Once again, you can contact Dublin City Council, local councillors or TDs. If that fails, there's always Section 108: search for "Guide to the Noise Regulations" on environ dot ie.

Mr Simpson

Don't drag up old threads please.