Tourists ringing Christchurch Cathedral bells

Solair

So Christ Church is trying to copy the very, very long-established tradition in Shandon in Cork.

The Bells of Shandon aren't quite so annoying as they are musically tuned, and can actually play complex tunes. They're controlled by pulling strings on a panel and tourists can actually play different tunes on them.

Shandon's also a smaller tower and probably not quite as loud. Although the 8 bells there weigh in at something like 6 tonnes a piece!!!

AFAIK the current bells at Christ Church in Dublin are designed for the classic 'peel of bells' performance i.e. they're harmonised but not musical in the sense that they're not really designed to play tunes.

Sundew

Alflie wrote: »

Never been to Ireland before, staying in Christ Church at the end of this month. Just googled Christ Church and look what I find, thanks guys. You mean I can swing from the robe like they do in the Movies, Yaaaay.

Have fun with the bells thing but don't ring them too loudly as folks could get violent

By the way it's great to see so many "Trip Advisory"
folk around here of late

Sijucat

Solair wrote: »

So Christ Church is trying to copy the very, very long-established tradition in Shandon in Cork.

The Bells of Shandon aren't quite so annoying as they are musically tuned, and can actually play complex tunes. They're controlled by pulling strings on a panel and tourists can actually play different tunes on them.

Shandon's also a smaller tower and probably not quite as loud. Although the 8 bells there weigh in at something like 6 tonnes a piece!!!

AFAIK the current bells at Christ Church in Dublin are designed for the classic 'peel of bells' performance i.e. they're harmonised but not musical in the sense that they're not really designed to play tunes.

I am a past Christ Church bell ringer (and almost as ancient as the cathedral itself) and can confirm that Christ Church's bells date back to 1440 and are probably the most musical and dulcet bells in the country. The number grew to eight in 1738 and then to twelve in 1878. In 1999 an additional seven bells were added to the ring, giving a grand total of 19 bells, which broke (and still holds) the world record for bells rung this way. You are incorrect in that it regularly plays three different 12-bell peals (in the keys of B, C# and F#) as well as 14 and 16 bell peals and only the second 16 full circle bell peal in the world - St Martin's Church in Birmingham being the first. This is why it takes a very certain skill and knowledge to play the bells, unlike Shandon's harmonised bells which tourists can play quite easily.

D-Generate

Sijucat wrote: »

That's a shameful plug and has nothing to do with this thread which is about the tourists ringing the bells not about Shandon?? I am a past Christ Church bell ringer (and almost as ancient as the cathedral itself) and can confirm that Christ Church's bells date back to 1440. The number grew to eight in 1738 and then to twelve in 1878. In 1999 an additional seven bells were added to the ring, giving a grand total of 19 bells, which broke (and still holds) the world record for bells rung this way. You are also wrong in that it regularly plays three different 12-bell peals (in the keys of B, C# and F#) as well as 14 and 16 bell peals and only the second 16 full circle bell peal in the world - St Martin's Church in Birmingham being the first. Very funny that you say Christ Church copied you??? I doubt they ever heard of you!

I don't think Solair is the Shandon Tower masquerading as a user on boards.ie; however if he is, then I for one bow down to our sentient building overlords.

username123

Interesting the number of newly registered posters posting their first ever post on this thread.

Alflie

Gee Whiz, excuse the pun, Sijucat with information like that you sure have been around a while! You mean I'll be hanging from 19 Bells, great, that guarantees a steady rope cause I'm not small. Hey Sundew, thanks for the tip but I might only get one shot at this, I want the neighbours to say "That'll be Alfie". I can't wait to come to Dublin, let's make Christ Church and its Cathedral a destination.

youguessedit

I think some posters here are missing the point or haven't read the original post properly: I have no problem with the Cathedral's professional bell-ringers and I'm very sure the vast majority of other local residents have no problem with them either. In fact, it would be an awful pity if the Cathedral stopped ringing their bells on a Friday evening and Sunday morning: it adds great character to the area and I've really enjoyed them over the past 15 years - even when I'm lying suffering in bed with the world's worst hangover.

However, one or two hours of near-continuous, clang-clang-clang-clang-clang is incredibly annoying and, frankly, not acceptable. The Cathedral does not exist in a vacuum and its staff need to fully appreciate that, like any member of a community, what they do can have a negative impact on others.

I fully appreciate the great need for funds to maintain the Cathedral. Who wouldn't? But of the hundreds of means of raising money that the Cathedral's staff could have adopted, they would have been very hard-pressed to come up with another that has a greater negative impact on their neighbours. At best, and I choose to see it this way, they simply didn't realise that they've been behaving like the noisy neighbour nobody wants to live beside. At worst, and I sincerely hope this is not the case, they knew exactly what they were doing and chose to ignore the fact.

As for the Cathedral's plan to have a damper fitted, I only hope it's going to be enough.

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

Sounds like aural vandalism to me. Can you imagine this happening in Notre Dame or St. Paul's?

I guess it's like everything in this city - so little respect for the historic fabric and setting. From the hideous shopfronts to the endless clutter of municipal tat, the city looks like a complete dump in areas.

You don't happen to live in those 90s pastiche apartments, do you? Dreadful looking things that ruin the setting of Christchurch, not to mention that Jury's Hotel monstrosity.

griffdaddy

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain wrote: »

Sounds like aural vandalism to me. Can you imagine this happening in Notre Dame or St. Paul's?

I guess it's like everything in this city - so little respect for the historic fabric and setting. From the hideous shopfronts to the endless clutter of municipal tat, the city looks like a complete dump in areas.

You don't happen to live in those 90s pastiche apartments, do you? Dreadful looking things that ruin the setting of Christchurch, not to mention that Jury's Hotel monstrosity.

rabbel rabbel rabbel

Toirdhealbhach Tadhg O Caoindealbhain

griffdaddy wrote: »

rabbel rabbel rabbel

The truth hurts, I know. But putting your fingers in your ears won't help

vektarman

Sijucat wrote: »

Hi Guys, saw Christ Church and the tourists ringing the bells on the 6pm news today. Well done to all you complainers, with advertising like this I'm sure their tours are selling out for the rest of the month hahaha. Don't ya just the irony!! Byeeeee....

What an annoying post

adamski8

vektarman wrote: »

Sijucat wrote: »

Hi Guys, saw Christ Church and the tourists ringing the bells on the 6pm news today. Well done to all you complainers, with advertising like this I'm sure their tours are selling out for the rest of the month hahaha. Don't ya just the irony!! Byeeeee....

What an annoying post

I think that was the point of their post

ChunkyLover_53

To the North American Lady I met on Christchurch Hill a few years back;

You may or may not remember me but our conversation went like this;

You: "Excuse me sir, but why are the bells ringing?"

Me: "Oh they ring them everytime another person dies from the plague"

You (with a shocked look on your face): "Oh really?"

Me: "Yeah the bubonic plague...you know the one where you get boils on your neck?"

You: (You didn't say anything just stared at me with your mouth open)

Me: "Anyway enjoy your holiday...don't forget to wash your hands"

Sorry if I ruined your trip to Dublin

youguessedit

Sijucat wrote: »

Hi Guys, saw Christ Church and the tourists ringing the bells on the 6pm news today. Well done to all you complainers, with advertising like this I'm sure their tours are selling out for the rest of the month hahaha. Don't ya just the irony!! Byeeeee....

There's always one. The word [expletive deleted] comes to mind. But by his own admission he's an ex Christ Church Cathedral bell-ringer so what more can we expect? They're all clearly a bunch of [another expletive deleted].

Thanks for bringing the broadcast to my attention though. It's great fuel for the fire.

youguessedit

A less biased piece about the bell-ringing was broadcast on the John Murray show on the same day as the utterly one-sided piece on Six One News. (I see Sijucat has deleted his smug post about the piece - although it will live for eternity through our quotes.) If you didn't hear it, the full show can be replayed on RTÉ's website (http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thejohnmurrayshow/2012-10-05.html) or the piece itself is available as a podcast on iTunes (http://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/rte-the-john-murray-show/id391721569: look for 'Christchurch Cathedral Bells row').

It's just a pity that Councillor Gerry Ashe didn't take the trouble to listen to the 70-minute recording I sent her.

This will give anyone who hasn't it an idea of what local residents have to listen to when tourists are ringing the bells (although this was a fairly bearable bout of torture):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r6jPEl24vc&feature=plcp

Bray Header

youguessedit wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the bells being rung by bell-ringers. No problem at all. I've lived opposite Christchurch Cathedral for 15 years and have enjoyed the bells every Friday evening and Sunday morning. But if you consider the cacophony the tourists make to be enjoyable then you're more than welcome to swap with me. (For those who haven't heard or can't imagine it, let me make a comparison: think two or more burglar alarms with iffy sounders, completely out of sync, stopping after 10 minutes only to start back up again two minutes later. Then think two long, long hours on a Sunday afternoon.)

PS Exactly how close is Bray Head to Christchurch anyway?

I'm only checking up on this thread now, been a while

Sorry mate, but I'm from Bray, and have lived in Christchuch on and off for about 8 years now. I live in the aparment block adjoining Jury's, so am more than qualified to comment on the bells.

In fact, I purchased the apartment, so maybe makes me more qualified than most here. (and yes I know, I didn't really purchase it, merely signed a very long lease)

I had a hangover yesterday, a stinking hangover. Bells didn't bother me one bit. Maybe people work on different frequencies and are sensitive to different sounds? I barely even notice them at this stage.

You made the schoolboy forum error by assuming by username refers to the place where I currently live.

youguessedit

Bray Header wrote: »

I had a hangover yesterday, a stinking hangover. Bells didn't bother me one bit. Maybe people work on different frequencies and are sensitive to different sounds? I barely even notice them at this stage.

Having a hangover is not a problem: if you read back you'll see that, in the 15 years that I've lived opposite Christ Church Cathedral, I've never had a problem with the bells being rung by the Cathedral's bell-ringers on Sunday mornings, even with a hangover as bad as your own if not worse. And yes, I agree that some people are wired differently - you obviously are if you didn't have a problem with bells being rung by tourists near continuously for one, two or three hours on Saturday and Sunday afternoons during the summer. But being wired differently does not make my or, indeed, your opinion any less valid. Not one bit.

As for yesterday, apart for the normal 'professional' bell-ringing in the morning and afternoon, the bells were, thankfully, only rung twice and for very short periods.

Bray Header wrote: »

You made the schoolboy forum error by assuming by username refers to the place where I currently live.

Schoolboy error indeed and bit smart-arse. For that I apologise.

Bray Header wrote: »

In fact, I purchased the apartment, so maybe makes me more qualified than most here.

Now, that I won't let you away with. How on earth does owning your apartment make your opinion one iota more important than mine or that of any other poster to this thread? If you want to use that twisted logic, I'm afraid compared to me you're a blow-in.

youguessedit

Here's a very interesting letter written by Nuala Kavanagh, Director of Operations at Christ Church Cathedral, in reply to a letter from Ruairi Quinn TD. (Who says politicians won't do anything for you?)

http://i1353.photobucket.com/albums/q677/christchurchplace/ChristChurchCathedralletter231012.jpg

Firstly, and most importantly, the assertion that bells are being rung for "no more than 5 minutes" is just not true Nuala. All you have to do is look at post #30. 15 minutes is very much closer to the truth: that's how it was throughout the summer and that's how it is even now. 10-15 minutes is typical during tours at the weekend still. Sure even today (Monday) there was a tour just before noon during which the bells were rung for 30 minutes. And that is no exaggeration.

Unearthly hours? Well, yes, the bells were rung at 4 or 5am over a couple of nights near the end of summer but I reckon that was a glitch with their automatic system (at least I hope it was) and was sorted out after I emailed them. It's happened before and no doubt will happen again.

As for "hours at a time", now that is true: not constantly for hours but repeatedly and frequently throughout the afternoon with only short breaks of silence and, on Saturdays, starting in the morning and continuing throughout the afternoon. By their own admission the frequency of tours increased greatly during the summer following promotion of the tours. This from Nuala Kavanagh herself in post #21: "...the bell tower and tours were highlighted both on the news and in the newspapers. This saw a large increase in belfry tours and therefore an increase in the frequency of the bells being rung throughout the day". Going by their own figures, 30,000 visitors to the Cathedral have rung the bells. They can hardly have reached such a huge number - particularly given what I just quoted - without having frequent daily tours.

As the number of tourists visiting the Cathedral has diminished since the summer season, it's become clear that bell-ringing practice is also a very significant problem. With the addition of practice, bell-ringing on Friday evenings has increased greatly from the usual half an hour or so to two or three hours and, given that it's been stated that it takes two years to train, it appears it's going to be a rather long-term problem. However, this needs to be treated as a separate but related issue and complaints specifically about practice should be made to the Cathedral. I'd suggest asking them to ensure that dampers are used during practice as well as during belfry tours.

What about those dampers anyway? They've been promised since early September (see post #21) but there's still no sign of them. Nuala Kavanagh has tempered her language about these dampers since September - from "vastly" in the above post to "significantly" in the letter to Ruairi Quinn - so how effective they'll be remains to be seen.

Re the complaint about bell-ringing on Saturday morning, there have been and, indeed, still are tours on Saturday mornings so the complainant can easily be forgiven for thinking this practice session was a belfry tour given the fact that there's no mention of Saturday morning practice on the Cathedral's website and (worryingly for the trainees involved) given that practice frequently sounds just as bad.

Finally, a derisory guffaw for the clumsy attempts to pull at Minister Quinn's fiscal heartstrings.

youguessedit

Good news and bad. The bad news is that the Cathedral continues to drag their heels (what a surprise) and dampers won't be fitted until Spring at the earliest. They have also stated that they have no intention of using dampers during practice on Monday evening and Saturday morning - even though no attempt at musicality is being made during these sessions (have a listen for yourself: http://soundcloud.com/christchurchplace/christ-church-cathedral-bell).

The good news is that Dublin City Council have also received complaints from local office workers and is actively pursuing these complaints alongside those from local residents.

irishgirl19

I stayed in a hotel right across from the cathedral. . . And never again.Couldn't get a minutes peace with them bells. I feel seriously sorry for the OP who lives close by

billysweeney

Hi... I live across the road from the cathedral and i am sick to death of those bells. Can anyone tell me why they ring so often and what they ring for? Is it a call to prayer for the congregation? If so, why should so many other people who live and work in the vicinity of the building have to be put out to such a degree when it seems that only a small handful of people attend services there. If it is for the benefit of the bell ringing club themselves, then surely this is a ludicrous situation.. someones hobby destroying the relative peace of mind of others in what is a heavily residential area.
I have complained to both the city council and the Cathedral and have not received a reply from either. Anyone else who feels that the needs and wants of a small community of minority religious folk, in what is a 21st century secular city, should not cause disturbance to many others, feel free to PM me with a view to organizing a complaint. Tradition as an excuse doesn't cut it here...

Alias G

I didn't realise that you could ring the bells yourself for only four euro...thanks op.

I think if you choose to live near the city centre, noise pollution is going to be a fact of life.

kylith

Traffic noise, I think that most people would take as a given in the city, but I don't think anyone thinks that bells permanently clanging will be part of their lives, especially in this day and age.

endacl

Could christchurch not make up some story about how for generations dubliners have 'rubbed the lucky bell'? Leave an old knackered bell in a foyer, and charge tourists a fiver a rub? It worked for blarney's stone-kissers, and you'd get more people through per hour. Quietly.

Alias G

kylith wrote: »

Traffic noise, I think that most people would take as a given in the city, but I don't think anyone thinks that bells permanently clanging will be part of their lives, especially in this day and age.

Unless you live next to a Cathedral obviously.

Mr Whirly

Alias G wrote: »

Unless you live next to a Cathedral obviously.

A Cathedral makes a recent decision to maximise their profits by allowing untrained tourists to ring bells which by their own admission is a hard skill involving intensive training.

This is understandably infuriating for local residents and workers. Everyone on the internet decides this is great craic and defends the Cathedral.

Jesus wept.

Alias G

Mr Whirly wrote: »

A Cathedral makes a recent decision to maximise their profits by allowing untrained tourists to ring bells which by their own admission is a hard skill involving intensive training.

This is understandably infuriating for local residents and workers. Everyone on the internet decides this is great craic and defends the Cathedral.

Jesus wept.

Infuriating a few delicate flowers perhaps. As has already been attested to, some local residents are not bothered at all by the bell ringing. In my opinion, the cathedral is more than entitled to raise funds however they see fit, especially if the cash is going towards preserving our architectural history and heritage. If they choose to install dampers as a neighbourly gesture, then fair play to them. And they should obviously restrict the bell ringing to appropriate times of the day which it appears they haven't always done. Aside from that, I see no reason why should they cease.

Mr Whirly

Alias G wrote: »

Infuriating a few delicate flowers perhaps. As has already been attested to, some local residents are not bothered at all by the bell ringing. In my opinion, the cathedral is more than entitled to raise funds however they see fit, especially if the cash is going towards preserving our architectural history and heritage. If they choose to install dampers as a neighbourly gesture, then fair play to them. And they should obviously restrict the bell ringing to appropriate times of the day which it appears they haven't always done. Aside from that, I see no reason why should they cease.

One person who may have double glazing or may not be as close as he claims to be. I have been there when the tourists are ringing the bells and you would want to have a hearing disability not to be affected by it.

No company has the right to raise funds however they want.

billysweeney

Alias G wrote: »

Infuriating a few delicate flowers perhaps. As has already been attested to, some local residents are not bothered at all by the bell ringing. In my opinion, the cathedral is more than entitled to raise funds however they see fit, especially if the cash is going towards preserving our architectural history and heritage. If they choose to install dampers as a neighbourly gesture, then fair play to them. And they should obviously restrict the bell ringing to appropriate times of the day which it appears they haven't always done. Aside from that, I see no reason why should they cease.

I'll tell you what, PM me your address and I will pop over and organise charity fundraising which involves allowing passersby to have a go on a decorative dinner gong, for a euro a pop, just outside your place. Afterall... I should be allowed raise funds however I see fit no?

Alias G

billysweeney wrote: »

I'll tell you what, PM me your address and I will pop over and organise charity fundraising which involves allowing passersby to have a go on a decorative dinner gong, for a euro a pop, just outside your place. Afterall... I should be allowed raise funds however I see fit no?

However you see fit by utilising existing infrastructure that has been there for centuries is a bit different from being an intentional pest.
If you live beside a cathedral I think you should expect to hear bells. If you live beside a railway, you should expect to hear trains disrupting your peace but its a fact of life. The smell from the Guinness brewery wrecks some peoples heads but they are not going to stop production for a few disgruntled residents. These are all part and parcel of the texture and fabric of the city so you can moan a you please but these things were here long before you and will most likely remain so long after you've gone.
I think the cathedral should execute caution regarding the hours of the day that they allow untrained people to chime the bells but that is about it.
Now that I think of it, I seem to recall a news story a couple of years back about a shortage of trained bell ringers available in recent times so perhaps this is also a good method of generating more interest in the skill and keeping the tradition going for a few more centuries.