22000 on the Maynooth commuter service

The ICRs which run on the Kildare services are often those with a fault of some sort. I was once on 22004 on such a service and it was down an engine in one coach. They did the same with the new batch of ICRs, putting them on the Kildare run first, so if they did go belly up they could be recovered easier.

n97 mini

Several 22000s operating the Maynooth run yesterday again.

I noticed IE are replacing blown florescent tubes with new ones of the wrong colour. Has taken the "new" gloss off the carriage I was in, and makes you wonder about maintenance standards and have we broken hand dryers, backed up toilets, non functioning sockets etc to look forward to.

Jamie2k9

non functioning sockets etc to look forward to

The sockets are currently being replaced and a lot of the fleet has being done already.

CIE

Karsini wrote: »

The ICRs which run on the Kildare services are often those with a fault of some sort. I was once on 22004 on such a service and it was down an engine in one coach. They did the same with the new batch of ICRs, putting them on the Kildare run first, so if they did go belly up they could be recovered easier.

Why are five-year-old DMUs so faulty?

kc56

Karsini wrote: »

The ICRs which run on the Kildare services are often those with a fault of some sort. I was once on 22004 on such a service and it was down an engine in one coach. They did the same with the new batch of ICRs, putting them on the Kildare run first, so if they did go belly up they could be recovered easier.

One incidence does not imply the whole fleet is falling apart! It's not as if ICRs are failing every day. In fact, just from seeing reports of failures, the 3 Enterprise trains have more failures that the whole 61 ICRs combined (well maybe not but it seems like it). And just because on one occasion there was a unit with 1 working engine on the Kildare routes does not imply that faulty ICRs are always used on the Kildare route.

IE would not deliberately put a unit with only 1 working engine in service especially on a stop start route as it would not be able to maintain the timetable and the Kildare route has some short turn arounds. It is allowed to operate ICRs with 2 of 3 or 4 of 6 engines running.

kc56

kc56 wrote: »

One incidence does not imply the whole fleet is falling apart!

The driver told me that, I'm friends with him. Was talking to him before the departure. Also, I wasn't implying that "the whole fleet is falling apart" but rather that those with minor issues are often put on the Kildare service.

Jamie2k9

Just to point out when somebody says there is a fault with a set that dosn't mean it affects engines. A set could be operating for days before the fault is repaired. You are able to bypass/isolate the faults and contuine to operate the set as normal. Then there could be cases that the fault causes problems with the engine etc which may cause problems but generaly it should be able to contuine to the next stop/final stop unless there is complete engine failure on the set. Failures of ICR's and long delays are few and far between. All you need to do is look at recent delays/failures of the Cork and Belfast services...

SeanW

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't really understand your logic. There are far more commuters than Intercity customers. I don't see why Intercity customers should get any preferential treatment as a result.

You don't like the 29000 railcars? Great, neither do I. Now imagine you had to stand on one for over 2 hours, because they had been assigned to your Intercity train.

The trains used on a line have to be fit for purpose. That means a crowded, short distance stopping train should have plenty of standing space and easy exits, while a long distance train needs to be designed to maximise seating and comfort.

That's why most people don't want 22ks on short haul commuter service and nobody wants 29ks on long distance Intercity services.

end of the road

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't see why Intercity customers should get any preferential treatment

depends on what you mean by preferential treatment. if you mean more comfortable trains and being able to leave before stopping services then absolutely they should be given priority, its not as if each regional and intercity route has a train every few minutes. if that means commuters waiting a few minutes extra well so be it at least you have a service every few minutes or on the half hour, regional and intercity routes will never have such frequency infact cork is probably lucky to have the hourly frequency.

sdanseo

CIE wrote: »

The long-term view is still to DART-ise this line. Would the ould 8100 class be preferable to either commuter DMU or intercity DMU now? That cannot be likely.

Give me any DART car - LHB or 8500/8600 - over a 29k any day. I find them noisy, cramped and uncomfortable, ugly, slow and smelly - although others seem to like them, for reasons I can't quite fathom. Only benefit to them is the toilets really.

CIE

sdeire wrote: »

Give me any DART car - LHB or 8500/8600 - over a 29k any day. I find them noisy, cramped and uncomfortable, ugly, slow and smelly - although others seem to like them, for reasons I can't quite fathom. Only benefit to them is the toilets really.

The seats in the DMUs are still better. I would be quite browned off sitting in 8100-class seats if I had to ride to Drogheda on them (oh wait, that's right...the last DU proposal had the wires end at Balbriggan, which means one amazing mess awaiting Northern Line commuting if that ever gets built); and even any DART class as far as Balbriggan is stretching it for me.

You sure you're not just looking for stuff to find fault with? EMUs have their own smells as well, whether ozone from overhead wire/pantograph discharge or electric traction motors, or brake particulate smells.

They're still planning on shrinking the EMU fleet by selling off the 8200 class. Definitely won't be a DU.

dowlingm

If electrification was first extended to Maynooth that would soak up a lot of the current EMU fleet, opening the way for "outer suburban" EMUs to be procured for north of Malahide, with toilets and a higher top speed, with the rest of the existing fleet doing Howth-Greystones runs.

I'd love to know what it would take to repower the high density 22s to electric like their cousins in Tunisia and Ukraine... it would be nice if it turned out there was electric distribution conduit there due to model frame commonality.

end of the road

sdeire wrote: »

Give me any DART car - LHB or 8500/8600 - over a 29k any day. I find them noisy, cramped and uncomfortable, ugly, slow and smelly - although others seem to like them, for reasons I can't quite fathom. Only benefit to them is the toilets really.

nice roar from the engine, thats why i like them. nicer sound then the horid sounding engines in the 26 27 and 2800s. all though sending them to sligo and rosslare is just to much.

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

nice roar from the engine, thats why i like them. nicer sound then the horid sounding engines in the 26 27 and 2800s. all though sending them to sligo and rosslare is just to much.

Horses for courses I suppose. I can't count the amount of times I've stepped off a 29000 with a headache due to the throbbing engines.

end of the road

CIE wrote: »

They're still planning on shrinking the EMU fleet by selling off the 8200 class.

meh, who will buy them? a brakers maybe, only place their heading i'd say. of course if IE took legal action against alsthom to force them to fix the units with no cost to IE as they were inferior in the first place maybe just maybe they would be in service or at the very least on standby just incase dart underground ever did go ahead. of course it won't so no need for them realy but still enough was payed for them so they should be seeing service but they won't now.

end of the road

Karsini wrote: »

Horses for courses I suppose. I can't count the amount of times I've stepped off a 29000 with a headache due to the throbbing engines.

in fairness some sound damping should have been put in them as most people would find the noise uncomfortable. no i just think the engines have a nice sound, they wouldn't need to be as loud though.

SeanW

CIE wrote: »

They're still planning on shrinking the EMU fleet by selling off the 8200 class. Definitely won't be a DU.

That might have more to do with the altsom darts being sh*te than any plan to reduce the fleet per-se.

Captain Chaos

CIE wrote: »

They're still planning on shrinking the EMU fleet by selling off the 8200 class.

The 8200s have not been used in service since 2007 anyway. The only time there was a shortage of DARTs was when the 8100s went through their upgrade 2005-2007, since they are all back there is no need for the 8200s anymore. There is more than enough DART sets now. The problem will be in another 8-9 years when the 8100s will be due for replacement and the 8500s will need a refit upgrade. Then we will need another 80-90 EMU carriages.

CIE

SeanW wrote: »

That might have more to do with the alstom darts being (no good) than any plan to reduce the fleet per-se

The Metrovicks were also ineffectual and problematic, but they got their life extended by being re-engined, and the ones leased to NIR lasted into the early 90s.

And if there's no plans to reduce the size of the DART fleet, then there ought to have been outstanding plans to either rebuild or replace the 8200 class, I would think.

dowlingm wrote: »

If electrification was first extended to Maynooth that would soak up a lot of the current EMU fleet, opening the way for "outer suburban" EMUs to be procured for north of Malahide, with toilets and a higher top speed, with the rest of the existing fleet doing Howth-Greystones runs

Nice imagination there. I also imagine stuff like electric Pendolinos running Dublin-Cork and Class 221 Super Voyagers doing runs such as Dublin-Sligo. Or maybe GO Transit Rail getting electrified and the MP40PH-3Cs being replaced by the same type of Bombardier TRAXX electric engine that New Jersey Transit uses (the ALP-46A in particular)...

Since the electrification on the Northern Line is supposed to end at Balbriggan (another 14 miles or so up the line), I would presume that IE would regard existing DART types as sufficient for that service. It does beg the question as to what happens to service north of there, though, as well as west of Hazlehatch to/from Kildare. (Does anyone else think Balbriggan-Hazelhatch DART service is viable? because I do not.)

Cookie_Monster

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 8200s have not been used in service since 2007 anyway. The only time there was a shortage of DARTs was when the 8100s went through their upgrade 2005-2007, since they are all back there is no need for the 8200s anymore. There is more than enough DART sets now. The problem will be in another 8-9 years when the 8100s will be due for replacement and the 8500s will need a refit upgrade. Then we will need another 80-90 EMU carriages.

Why don't they just gut them and have them as trailer carraiges. At the very least the frame and bodywork must be reasonable.

Given it's only a few years since the last 8100s were given a heavy overhaul I would imagine (hope) they'd see a lot more than another 8-9 years only also.

CIE

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Why don't they just gut them and have them as trailer carraiges. At the very least the frame and bodywork must be reasonable.

Given it's only a few years since the last 8100s were given a heavy overhaul I would imagine (hope) they'd see a lot more than another 8-9 years only also.

IE doesn't do push-pull anymore except on Dublin-Cork.

If the 8200s were that bad of "lemons", then they could have twisted Alstom's arm to turn them around into something decent. Or are Alstom only let away with building the good stuff for France and selling the rest of the world junk?

Captain Chaos

CIE wrote: »

IE doesn't do push-pull anymore except on Dublin-Cork.

If the 8200s were that bad of "lemons", then they could have twisted Alstom's arm to turn them around into something decent. Or are Alstom only let away with building the good stuff for France and selling the rest of the world junk?

He means trailer cars. For the 8100s the 8300s are the trailers, likewise for the 8200 and 8400s. For the 8500s the 8600s are the trailers and cab units.

The 81,82 and 85 series are the power units.

Alstom built the 2700s which were hit and miss depending how they were used and the LUAS trams that are performing very well. The thing with the 8200s is that they were well out of warranty when they stared to act up.

dowlingm

I think the only way you do anything with 8200s is to treat them as 10 cab cars and drop a bunch of powered trailers in between. Suddenly you have five sets of 4?6?8? cars, the middle ones of which could be made by anyone if they took on rewiring the end bits to their standards. Unlike the 8100s where a massive delay happened figuring out the first few they could take their time examining the job since nobody expects them to be available anyway and there's no cash to build the trailers :D:D