Why do some gay men have a problem with bisexuals?

Lexplosii

I'm a bisexual male, but I've noticed that I've had some negative reactions from otherwise interested men when I revealed the fact that I'm bi rather than gay. Why is this the case? It has only occured on two occasions, so maybe it was something else, but I have been told that there is a certain level of dissent.

Any experiences or explanations?

EmmetOT

Just a clarification - these aren't my opinions.

I think a lot of gay men feel like bisexuals don't have it as rough as they do, because for them, they still have the option of fully recognized legal marriage and generally aren't "limited" to the taboo attraction.

In my own personal experience, I do know several bisexuals and obviously it makes perfect sense that it exists. That said, in my life I've met two people who claimed to be bisexual because they thought it was "cool," didn't act on it, and then eventually started denying ever saying it. I must stress again that I don't believe that this is the case for almost all bisexuals, but I think a few people see it as a "safe" way to get some recognition as unique because it has no outward signs and doesn't necessarily influence your behaviour in the slightest. This may leave a sour taste in the mouth of people who think sexuality is "SERIOUS BUSINESS."

1ZRed

EmmetOT wrote: »

Just a clarification - these aren't my opinions.

I think a lot of gay men feel like bisexuals don't have it as rough as they do, because for them, they still have the option of fully recognized legal marriage and generally aren't "limited" to the taboo attraction.

If anything bisexuals have it worse in some ways because they could choose to hide that side of them effectively and only pursue women, that could be very stressful if they feel the need to repress themselves or give themselves a strict one-gender preference.
It's also not just gay guys that might give them a bad time, the general population doesn't seem to understand bisexuality very well, and in their eyes, you're either gay or straight which isn't true. So I get where the OP is coming from.

yagguy

Here's some possible reasons:
1. Gay guy might feel the Bi guy cannot commit to him because Bi guy is attracted to both genders
2. Gay guy might feel 'superior' to Bi guy cos Gay guy has come out
3. Gay guy might have moral issues with Bi guy who might be married (and is therefore cheating on his wife)
4. Gay guy might think Bi guy is neither one thing nor the other (sorta the same thing as 1 and 2)
5. Gay guy might feel Bi guy doesn't kiss like a 'Gay' man

Chazz Michael Michaels

yagguy wrote: »

Here's some possible reasons:
1. Gay guy might feel the Bi guy cannot commit to him because Bi guy is attracted to both genders
2. Gay guy might feel 'superior' to Bi guy cos Gay guy has come out
3. Gay guy might have moral issues with Bi guy who might be married (and is therefore cheating on his wife)
4. Gay guy might think Bi guy is neither one thing nor the other (sorta the same thing as 1 and 2)
5. Gay guy might feel Bi guy doesn't kiss like a 'Gay' man

Another, gay guy may not actually want to be gay, and resents the fact he was born that way and may desire to be straight and have wife and kids, etc? Maybe he sees bi-guy and thinks that bi-people have a 'choice' to be the way he wants to be but they 'choose' to be bi instead?

I'm not gay or bi, so I really have no idea about being either, but that's my wild theory.

floggg

Because like straight men, sometimes gay men can just be intolerant idiots.

There isn't any rational reason for it in my book. Any gay man who has a problem with somebody else's sexuality is a hypocritical idiot.

ongarboy

I guess if I'm being honest, as a gay rather than a bi guy, I think I'd prefer only a gay over a bi for a relationship. I possibly would feel concerned that if I had a bi partner, there would be a risk they could move on to a woman. This is kind of a flawed point really cos any gay guy you could be with could also move onto another guy but somehow I think I could cope better with a guy leaving me for another guy than for a woman. I'm not even sure why that is the case but it is.

As it happens, I am comfortable with me and my partner fancying the same hot guy or even him fancying a guy that does nothing for me but would feel weird if I saw him lusting after a woman. Maybe it's because I can understand and even share that appreciation of the hot guy. Does this make sense?

This is purely from a relationship perspective and not about having a "problem" with their sexuality or them as people. I've no problem platonically with bi men or women. Then again, I've never had a situation where I've been with someone who I have strong feelings for and realise they are bi so all of the above is speculative.

Mace Windu

I'd never have a relationship with a bi guy. It's just unrealistic to expect them to commit to a gay relationship. And it's not to blame them — I'd eventually settle for a hetero relationship too, if I was bi.

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

I'd never have a relationship with a bi guy. It's just unrealistic to expect them to commit to a gay relationship. And it's not to blame them — I'd eventually settle for a hetero relationship too, if I was bi.

What??? What if a bi guy falls in love with another guy? He's just gonna ditch that out of convenience?

Mace Windu

paulmorro wrote: »

What??? What if a bi guy falls in love with another guy? He's just gonna ditch that out of convenience?

After an initial rosy period, love requires conscious efforts to be kept alive. Whether someone is ready to invest those conscious efforts is a matter of lots of variables, not least of them being how the person sees their future. So if the future is brighter with a woman (kids or whatever other reasons), then it makes perfect sense to invest the limited resources (life) into something that has higher ROI

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

After an initial rosy period, love requires conscious efforts to be kept alive. Whether someone is ready to invest those conscious efforts is a matter of lots of variables, not least of them being how the person sees their future. So if the future is brighter with a woman (kids or whatever other reasons), then it makes perfect sense to invest the limited resources (life) into something that has higher ROI

I forgot love was an investment.

There's a difference between saying there are reasons bi people might gravitate towards women and saying that it's completely unrealistic that they would remin in a gay relationship.

Mace Windu

paulmorro wrote: »

I forgot love was an investment.

Yes, it is. At least an investment in the sense that it never lasts unless both people invest their time and effort.

paulmorro wrote: »

There's a difference between saying there are reasons bi people might gravitate towards women and saying that it's completely unrealistic that they would remin in a gay relationship.

It's just that I've never seen it happen. But of course it doesn't mean it's impossible.

paulmorro

Well I think its an incredibly insulting thing to say about bi people, and doesn't reflect a strong opinion about gay relationships if you think thy can be so easily derailed.

stephen_n

Unfortunately there is a lot of biphobia in the gay community and that's all it comes down. There are varying reasons for it, like ongarboy said he dosent really no why and it doesn't make sense to him but he would have difficulty trusting in it! Then there are a lot of guys who will tell you that your greedy, to afraid to come out as what "you really are", incapable of being faithful to one sex or a multitude of other bulls**t reasons. In truth it simply comes down to a fear of difference like, you would think that wouldn't be the case considering, gay men have had to deal with all levels of homophobia but it is. In my experience the gay community is far far more biphobic than the hetero community which largely ignores it!

Medusa22

I'm a bi-sexual woman who is in a relationship with a woman who is also bi-sexual. I had a lesbian girlfriend when I was a teenager and she worried that I would go off with a man because I'm bi. For the most part, most people I've told seem to think that bi-sexuality doesn't exist or that I'm ''greedy'' or don't want to fully commit to being gay. One friend told me recently that he believes that people aren't really bi-sexual, they'll just sleep with someone of the same sex if they can't find someone of the opposite sex. All of these comments really annoy me. I am attracted to both men and women, there is nothing I can do about it, just like there is nothing that gay people can do about being gay or straight people can do about being straight. Usually people just assume that I'm a lesbian when they find out that I have a girlfriend, sometimes I correct them but often I don't bother. Don't get me started on how people assume that we are swingers or in an open relationship because we're both bi. Not that there is anything wrong with that but I don't like when people presume things.

Mace Windu

I don't think that avoiding bisexuals as potential relationship partners is a sign of biphobia or an insult.

Suppose you meet a person in their thirties-fourties-etc. and learn that the longest "relationship" they had lasted for a week. If you are interested in them more than just for casual sex, you are likely to not even bother continuing, wish them well and go on your own business. Simply because you know (from past experience, or from just looking around at other people) that chances of this person becoming your life-long partner are as slim as winning a jack-pot, or less.

Same here. If it's common knowledge that most bi men gravitate towards women, then why bother spending time and energy for something that, statistically, is not going to play out well?

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

I don't think that avoiding bisexuals as potential relationship partners is a sign of biphobia or an insult.

Suppose you meet a person in their thirties-fourties-etc. and learn that the longest "relationship" they had lasted for a week. If you are interested in them more than just for casual sex, you are likely to not even bother continuing, wish them well and go on your own business. Simply because you know (from past experience, or from just looking around at other people) that chances of this person becoming your life-long partner are as slim as winning a jack-pot, or less.

Same here. If it's common knowledge that most bi men gravitate towards women, then why bother spending time and energy for something that, statistically, is not going to play out well?

So play the odds (as you see them) and ignore someone for the reason of being bi then...

Mace Windu

paulmorro wrote: »

So play the odds (as you see them) and ignore someone for the reason of being bi then...

Yes, that's exactly what I do

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

I don't think that avoiding bisexuals as potential relationship partners is a sign of biphobia or an insult.

Suppose you meet a person in their thirties-fourties-etc. and learn that the longest "relationship" they had lasted for a week. If you are interested in them more than just for casual sex, you are likely to not even bother continuing, wish them well and go on your own business. Simply because you know (from past experience, or from just looking around at other people) that chances of this person becoming your life-long partner are as slim as winning a jack-pot, or less.

Same here. If it's common knowledge that most bi men gravitate towards women, then why bother spending time and energy for something that, statistically, is not going to play out well?

So your going to rule someone out on the basis of their sexuality but you don't think that's bi-phobic? What exactly would you think biphobia is?

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

Same here. If it's common knowledge that most bi men gravitate towards women, then why bother spending time and energy for something that, statistically, is not going to play out well?

"Common knowledge" isn't actual knowledge, it's just preconceptions masquerading as such. You use the word "statistically", which is a factual word, but do you have anything which backs it up beyond your own biases?

Mace Windu

stephen_n wrote: »

So your going to rule someone out on the basis of their sexuality but you don't think that's bi-phobic? What exactly would you think biphobia is?

Not on the basis of their sexuality, no. I gave another example of someone who I'd rule out just as quickly — someone who is over a certain age and whose longest relationship lasted for a week, even if they are gay. But it doesn't mean I am homophobic.

It just means that I am not prepared to go against the odds.

PS. And of course this only applies to a potential relationship partner. If I were into casual sex, I wouldn't care in the least.

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

Not on the basis of their sexuality, no. I gave another example of someone who I'd rule out just as quickly — someone who is over a certain age and whose longest relationship lasted for a week, even if they are gay. But it doesn't mean I am homophobic.

It just means that I am not prepared to go against the odds.

PS. And of course this only applies to a potential relationship partner. If I were into casual sex, I wouldn't care in the least.

So as a logical continuation of your argument, it's common knowledge a lot of gay men cheat on their partners, it's statistically proven that gay men are more promiscuous, therefore playing the percentages you'd be better off staying out of relationships with gay men!

See ignorance dressed up as facts is still just ignorance!

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

"Common knowledge" isn't actual knowledge, it's just preconceptions masquerading as such. You use the word "statistically", which is a factual word, but do you have anything which backs it up beyond your own biases?

It is my personal experience, but I'm not suggesting that it is universal. In my first response to this thread I wrote "I'd never...", not "I don't think anyone should ever..."

So it's just about my own observations, and my own view on the question asked by OP.

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

stephen_n wrote: »

So your going to rule someone out on the basis of their sexuality but you don't think that's bi-phobic? What exactly would you think biphobia is?

Not on the basis of their sexuality, no. I gave another example of someone who I'd rule out just as quickly — someone who is over a certain age and whose longest relationship lasted for a week, even if they are gay. But it doesn't mean I am homophobic.

It just means that I am not prepared to go against the odds.

PS. And of course this only applies to a potential relationship partner. If I were into casual sex, I wouldn't care in the least.

But you've decided that for all people who are bi, ignoring things like personality or previous relationship history. You ate ignoring them because of their sexuality. That is biphobic.

Mace Windu

stephen_n wrote: »

So as a logical continuation of your argument, it's common knowledge a lot of gay men cheat on their partners, it's statistically proven that gay men are more promiscuous, therefore playing the percentages you'd be better off staying out of relationships with gay men!

See ignorance dressed up as facts is still just ignorance!

If we take this logic to the extreme, both men and women cheat on each other, no matter what orientation, so therefore... what?.. we all should stay away from any kind of relationships? I don't think so.

It's a matter of balancing risks. With a bi man, they are too high for me to take. Do I have the right to decide what risks I am prepared to take, based on observation of life? Thanks.

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

I don't think that avoiding bisexuals as potential relationship partners is a sign of biphobia or an insult.

You can of course think that way if you want. It doesn't make your thoughts right or correct.

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

If we take this logic to the extreme, both men and women cheat on each other, no matter what orientation, so therefore... what?.. we all should stay away from any kind of relationships? I don't think so.

It's a matter of balancing risks. With a bi man, they are too high for me to take. Do I have the right to decide what risks I am prepared to take, based on observation of life? Thanks.

You have the right to make any choices you want! You however don't have the right to say its not biphobic when clearly it is! There is no facts to support your argument, it is an irrational fear i.e. a phobia!

Mace Windu

paulmorro wrote: »

But you've decided that for all people who are bi, ignoring things like personality or previous relationship history. You ate ignoring them because of their sexuality. That is biphobic.

I prefer to call it "making educated choices based on previous experience or observation". If, for political correctness or any other reason, I am denied a right to make choices about my personal life, then so be it, call me biphobic

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

paulmorro wrote: »

But you've decided that for all people who are bi, ignoring things like personality or previous relationship history. You ate ignoring them because of their sexuality. That is biphobic.

I prefer to call it "making educated choices based on previous experience or observation". If, for political correctness or any other reason, I am denied a right to make choices about my personal life, then so be it, call me biphobic

Well at last something we can agree on.

Mace Windu

stephen_n wrote: »

You have the right to make any choices you want! You however don't have the right to say its not biphobic when clearly it is! There is no facts to support your argument, it is an irrational fear i.e. a phobia!

It's not irrational, in any way. If I have seen both gay and hetero couples living together more or less happily, but have never seen one with a bi man being together for any significant period of time without cheating of some sort, then it's quite substantial evidence to me.

baby and crumble

My gf of 9 years is bisexual. We're completely monogomous, and I have no reason not to trust her completely. Yes, when I was younger I had a bee in my bonnet about her liking men, but that was me being insecure. I think it's insulting to bisexual people and their partners to assume that they will cheat. When someone says "well of course they'll go for a hetero relationship over a gay one" you are inherantly devaluing all gay relationships as 'less than', because if given the choice you believe everyone would want to be straight. I wouldn't. I'm very happy with who I am, and I wouldn't want my gf to be a lesbian, because being bi is part of who she is, and I love her. Why would I want to change that? And the suggestion that she'd leave me for a man as soon as she could is very insulting to me as an individual and as her partner.

stephen_n

Mace Windu wrote: »

It's not irrational, in any way. If I have seen both gay and hetero couples living together more or less happily, but have never seen one with a bi man being together for any significant period of time without cheating of some sort, then it's quite substantial evidence to me.

Do you ask every gay couple you come across are they both gay or do you just assume? 1 in 3 hetero marriages ends in failure, who knows what the statistics are for hetero relationships in general or for gay relationships! It is irrational as it in no way based on facts but on unsupportable assumptions on your behalf! I have seen far more gay relationships end because of cheating than I have relationships involving bi people, so is that substantial evidence that gay men can not be trusted?

Aurongroove

(the following is me trying to quantify the instinctual state of mind I found myself with; so don't go sentencing me; I'm thinking outloud in order to fully understand and then perhaps overcome any and all bi-phobia.)

when I started socializing I felt myself backing away from those who revealed themselves as bisexual.
I think there are two main reasons for this.

One, I felt that I only want a proper long term relationship, not some open agreement or short term thing. With I bisexual person I suspected that a long term relationship wasn't fair for me to demand on them and that it would force a situation where I slowly become a "ball and chain" figure to someone for whom the prospect of freedom and a big pair of tits and a vaj, is looking greener and greener with every mild disagreement.

Two. and this is a strange one, If I were in a successful relationship with a bisexual male, what does that make me? the more I thought about it the more I uncovered how hung up I was on how I identify myself. I didnt like the idea of seeing myself as "feminine" enough to keep a bi sexual male in a steady relationship. I just decided I wasn't right for a bisexual man and decided to only ask out gay men.

I do now ofcourse see how silly both there avenues of thinking are.

Mace Windu

baby and crumble wrote: »

When someone says "well of course they'll go for a hetero relationship over a gay one" you are inherantly devaluing all gay relationships as 'less than', because if given the choice you believe everyone would want to be straight.

Well, I would, but that's beside the point.

Saying "well of course they'll go for a hetero relationship over a gay one" is not at all implying that gay relationships are "less than" hetero ones. It's simply stating the very obvious fact that hetero relationships are a lot easier as far as society goes. AND as far as children go. At this point in history, and in this society.

Mace Windu

Aurongroove wrote: »

(the following is me trying to quantify the instinctual state of mind I found myself with; so don't go sentencing me; I'm thinking outloud in order to fully understand and then perhaps overcome any and all bi-phobia.)

when I started socializing I felt myself backing away from those who revealed themselves as bisexual.
I think there are two main reasons for this.

One, I felt that I only want a proper long term relationship, not some open agreement or short term thing. With I bisexual person I suspected that a long term relationship wasn't fair for me to demand on them and that it would force a situation where I slowly become a "ball and chain" figure to someone for whom the prospect of freedom and a big pair of tits and a vaj, is looking greener and greener with every mild disagreement.

Two. and this is a strange one, If I were in a successful relationship with a bisexual male, what does that make me? the more I thought about it the more I uncovered how hung up I was on how I identify myself. I didnt like the idea of seeing myself as "feminine" enough to keep a bi sexual male in a steady relationship. I just decided I wasn't right for a bisexual man and decided to only ask out gay men.

I do now ofcourse see how silly both there avenues of thinking are.

Well, making choices about your own life is now called biphobic, so welcome to the club!

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

Well, making choices about your own life is now called biphobic, so welcome to the club!

I think he subsequently realised the irrationality of his own thoughts and choices.

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

Well, I would, but that's beside the point.

Saying "well of course they'll go for a hetero relationship over a gay one" is not at all implying that gay relationships are "less than" hetero ones.

I don't see how it isn't. To me saying something like is showing that as a person you think that there is more value in hetero relationships.

Mace Windu

mango salsa wrote: »

I don't see how it isn't. To me saying something like is showing that as a person you think that there is more value in hetero relationships.

No, it's just easier. Now and here.

baby and crumble

Mace Windu wrote: »

No, it's just easier. Now and here.

Perhaps for some people, but not for everyone. I have never had a major problem with social acceptance of my relationship. Either from family or society. TBH with my Dad I'd probably face more 'problems' if I brought home certain types of men that my girlfriend!!

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

It is my personal experience, but I'm not suggesting that it is universal. In my first response to this thread I wrote "I'd never...", not "I don't think anyone should ever..."

So it's just about my own observations, and my own view on the question asked by OP.

Out of curiosity, if I said I was bi, but would never consider a long-term relationship with a homosexual because it's common knowledge that they're more promiscuous, and I've never seen a gay relationship being together for any significant period of time without cheating of some sort, would you consider that to be offensive or just a "lifestyle choice"?

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, if I said I was bi, but would never consider a long-term relationship with a homosexual because it's common knowledge that they're more promiscuous, and I've never seen a gay relationship being together for any significant period of time without cheating of some sort, would you consider that to be offensive or just a "lifestyle choice"?

I would consider you brave enough to say what everyone knows but no one admits for fear of being called homophobic

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

I would consider you brave enough to say what everyone knows but no one admits for fear of being called homophobic

But "everyone" doesn't know this.

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

I would consider you brave enough to say what everyone knows but no one admits for fear of being called homophobic

Back to "everyone knows". In the 19th century, "everyone knew" women couldn't be trusted with the vote. In the 40s, "everyone knew" that black people were inferior. In the 70s, "everyone knew" that homosexuals were deviants and mentally defective.

"Everyone" tends to be wrong an awful lot of the time

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

Back to "everyone knows". In the 19th century, "everyone knew" women couldn't be trusted with the vote. In the 40s, "everyone knew" that black people were inferior. In the 70s, "everyone knew" that homosexuals were deviants and mentally defective.

"Everyone" tends to be wrong an awful lot of the time

By "everyone" here I mean us, gay people. Gay men, to be exact. Surely we must know a thing or two about ourselves?

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

By "everyone" here I mean us, gay people. Gay men, to be exact. Surely we must know a thing or two about ourselves?

So you are saying that bisexuals should stick to straight people when they're looking for a serious relationship? And gay men should... what? Just accept that they're not likely to ever form a serious relationship?

Annasopra

Mace Windu wrote: »

By "everyone" here I mean us, gay people. Gay men, to be exact. Surely we must know a thing or two about ourselves?

No. Speak for yourself on that one and don't use "we" and "everyone"

Mace Windu

28064212 wrote: »

And gay men should... what? Just accept that they're not likely to ever form a serious relationship?

No, just that it's more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

28064212

Mace Windu wrote: »

No, just that it's more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

No. What's your basis for deciding that gay men are more promiscuous? Is it "everyone knows"? Because that's just not true.

paulmorro

Mace Windu wrote: »

28064212 wrote: »

And gay men should... what? Just accept that they're not likely to ever form a serious relationship?

No, just that it's more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

No! Why is it? So you have hang ups about male relationships in general then? Everyone isn't the same. Gay men have LTRs. Bi people end up in relationships with either sex. Some people cheat, some don't, whatever the gender or sexuality.

the_syco

Mace Windu wrote: »

I'd never have a relationship with a bi guy. It's just unrealistic to expect them to commit to a gay relationship. And it's not to blame them — I'd eventually settle for a hetero relationship too, if I was bi.

Are you saying gay men are souless people that can't love? Or have I taken what you said wrongly, as that does make you sound very homophobic.

Mace Windu wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly what I do

Hrm. So you're either a homophobic gay man, or someone horribly insecure about their own sexuality...

How very sad.

bodice ripper

Mace Windu wrote: »

No, just that it's more difficult. Wouldn't you agree?

Nope. Conventional wisdom (ie bull**** people have been told by tv...) is that men will cheat given the option. So it would follow that bisexual women wold have an easier time with another woman, right?

And, as I bisexual woman, couldn't I argue that relationships with men are harder because a relationship based on a fundamental difference between the partners will be more fraught?