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Would Katie Taylor going pro be bad for women's boxing?

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    #32
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    mjon3105 wrote: »
    In my humble opinion Mathis will win that one. Her overall record shows she has defeated many more "top quality" boxers than has Braekhus though the fight will be in Denmark. Much will depend on how well Mathis has recovered from her bouts against Holm. Braekhus of course has an excellent 20-0-0 record (Incidentally as an amateur she once defeated Alanna Murphy (the former Alanna Audley) in a European championship event). She has improved considerably since turning pro.But her opponents have not been of the same high standard as those that Mathis' has fought, so far.
    You may well be right - Mathis is the heavier puncher and I've seen speculation that victory would set up a third, decisive showdown with Holm in Vegas (if Holly ever agreed to fight outside New Mexico!). But I have a feeling Braekhus will prove tougher than we expect and might just out-box Mathis for a points win.

    By the way, was any action taken against the ref who let the first Mathis-Holm fight continue way too long, putting Holly at risk of terrible injury?


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    #33
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    To the best of my knowledge, no action has been taken - indeed I have not heard of the matter being raised again in recent mon ths. In fact the last comments I heard were those of referee Burke when speaking to Rick Wright in the interview mentioned here.

    I agree that Mathis v Braekhus will be a close one whilst it lasts and indeed Mathis will want to win inside the distance especially in Scandinavia where Cecilia has such a large following especially in Norway and Finland but also in Denmark.

    http://www.fresquezproductions.com/news2012/news052112rockyref.htm

    QUOTE=marbless;80756378]You may well be right - Mathis is the heavier puncher and I've seen speculation that victory would set up a third, decisive showdown with Holm in Vegas (if Holly ever agreed to fight outside New Mexico!). But I have a feeling Braekhus will prove tougher than we expect and might just out-box Mathis for a points win.

    By the way, was any action taken against the ref who let the first Mathis-Holm fight continue way too long, putting Holly at risk of terrible injury?[/QUOTE]


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    #34
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    mjon3105 wrote: »
    To the best of my knowledge, no action has been taken - indeed I have not heard of the matter being raised again in recent mon ths. In fact the last comments I heard were those of referee Burke when speaking to Rick Wright in the interview mentioned here.
    I find Burke's comments scary in the extreme. Holm was too brave for her own good, and he allowed her to take a savage beating, leading to an execution more than a KO. The way Mathis went to work on her produced the most severe punishment I've seen in a women's bout.


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    #35
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    I share your views entirely ; albeit that I have not seen "Live" any womens bouts (outside of Europe) from what I have seen online and via VPN, and hear and understand from colleagues in the region , it does seem that womens pro boxing in the Americas generally, does not attract the best referees or indeed judges. Equally though there are a few 'stars' like Mathis,Holm, and possibly Braekhus , in general the standard has declined more than a little in past 5/7 years.

    Opponents regularly withdraw at last minute without explanation and a considerable number of mismatches have been reported in past twelve months alone, with some of those fighting for world titles and belts being virtual unknowns. As you rightly say though it is particularly worrying that referees like Burke allowed that fight to continue and even more worrying that no official body has taken any action (that has been reported).


    Also worth having a read of this:

    http://www.boxing.com/the_betrayal_of_holly_holm.html



    marbless wrote: »
    I find Burke's comments scary in the extreme. Holm was too brave for her own good, and he allowed her to take a savage beating, leading to an execution more than a KO. The way Mathis went to work on her produced the most severe punishment I've seen in a women's bout.


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    #36
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    mjon3105 wrote: »
    Also worth having a read of this:

    http://www.boxing.com/the_betrayal_of_holly_holm.html

    Thanks for the link to a brilliant piece of writing. Some of the comments posted in response are also spot-on, particularly one about the photo which shows Holm on her back, having been clearly knocked-down by a punch rather than "slipped" as the incompetent ref ruled. That crazy call, in my opinion, was the error which led to the battering suffered by Holm. She was, as the title of the report puts it, "betrayed". And her corner-men were 100% wrong not to throw in the towel when Mathis kept piling on the punishment.


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    #37
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    When Katie was presented with a People of the Year Award last weekend she said she was back in training.

    Does that suggest anything about her future plans?


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    #38
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Only that she always planned to return to training at that time. I confidently expect her to remain an amateur albeit discussions have been ongoing with the IABA and other bodies as late as this week.

    It has helped considerably that she has been signed up by the world's fifth largest Publishing company, Simon & Schuster for a new book to be launched on or about 8 November - MY OLYMPIC DREAM. S+S hold the rights for certain countries but that still allows her to do deals elsewhere inc lucrative countries like USA .

    It is sure to be a major success - 224 + pages written with Johnny Watterson of the 'Irish Times' and aimed at the lucrative Christmas market. Believed to have a considerable number of photos -many never seen before .

    It can already be pre-ordered from good bookshops in Ireland and is already on "pre-order" at Amazon.Katie had a very good agent working for her,who has excellent relations with most of the major publishing houses.


    Here is how Amazon and others are promoting it:

    "When Katie Taylor was chosen to bear the Irish flag at the opening ceremony of the London Olympics, the pressure was on for her to deliver gold for Ireland when she stepped into the boxing ring. It was the first time that the Olympics had included women's boxing as one of its events, and Taylor knew she had to deliver. She had won gold in the World Amateur Championships four times since 2006, but this was the biggest tournament of her career.

    Taylor reveals how she trained and prepared for the Olympics, and explains what got her into boxing in the first place. A committed Christian, she trusted in her faith to see her through the toughest challenges. With the whole nation willing her on, and her home town of Bray having ground to a halt, on 9 August she fulfilled her Olympic dream, winning gold in a close-fought contest. And a nation celebrated with her. Taylor relives these glorious moments, and looks back on the triumph that changed her life forever. It is a special story from a truly remarkable woman" .

    Mike


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    #39
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Mike, that will be on my xmas list 2012. Thanks! I had heard about it. I'd say it will be a great read!


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    #40
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Well done ... good forecast... some of bout is here. final score 97-93

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfSBDWPylCU


    marbless wrote: »
    You may well be right - Mathis is the heavier puncher and I've seen speculation that victory would set up a third, decisive showdown with Holm in Vegas (if Holly ever agreed to fight outside New Mexico!). But I have a feeling Braekhus will prove tougher than we expect and might just out-box Mathis for a points win.

    By the way, was any action taken against the ref who let the first Mathis-Holm fight continue way too long, putting Holly at risk of terrible injury?


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    #41
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    wban.com also reports that:

    " Hot Match on the Horizon! Holm vs. Lamare (SEPT 21) Press Conference will be held on September 25, 2012 o for the upcoming Holly Holm vs. Myriam Larmare IFBA/IBA welterweight title bout. The conference will be held at the Route 66 Hotel/Casino, in Albuquerque, NM 2:00pm. The two will be fighting Dec. 7th"


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    #42
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    mjon3105 wrote: »
    Well done ... good forecast... some of bout is here. final score 97-93/QUOTE]
    Full bout now here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSmbcQeqvU&feature=related


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    #43
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Many thanks. Will enjoy watching that in full later tonight...Appreciated...

    Mike

    marbless wrote: »
    mjon3105 wrote: »
    Well done ... good forecast... some of bout is here. final score 97-93/QUOTE]
    Full bout now here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzSmbcQeqvU&feature=related


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    #44
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    Getting back on topic, is there any update as to whether Katie will be staying amateur or going pro?


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    #45
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    Getting back on topic, is there any update as to whether Katie will be staying amateur or going pro?

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/340124/

    May shed some light.


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    #46
    Pisco Sour
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭Pisco Sour


    walshb wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/340124/

    May shed some light.

    Really really hope she does not go pro!


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    #47
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Pisco Sour wrote: »
    Really really hope she does not go pro!

    Agreed. I don't see it as really furthering her. She is an icon right now. An ambassador role is best, or keep training hard and win gold again. That really would send her into orbit!


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    #48
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Yes that's where we are. See also this piece from the Indo....:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/class-act-katie-has-eyes-trained-on-rio-olympics-3248641.html


    walshb wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/340124/

    May shed some light.


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    #49
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    ....and this tonight from T.Sue Fox, of wban.com, who was recently listed as one of Ring Magazine's top 10 and most influential women pro boxers and commentators. She is a big fan of Taylor's and of Womens Pro Boxing and recognised by most in U.S.A and other countries as one of theforemost experts on the womens pro game. but as you will see here she feels it is the wrong time for Taylor to turn pro.

    http://www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2012/news100312katietaylor.htm




    mjon3105 wrote: »
    Yes that's where we are. See also this piece from the Indo....:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/class-act-katie-has-eyes-trained-on-rio-olympics-3248641.html


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    #50
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    mjon3105 wrote: »
    ....and this tonight from T.Sue Fox, of wban.com, who was recently listed as one of Ring Magazine's top 10 and most influential women pro boxers and commentators. She is a big fan of Taylor's and of Womens Pro Boxing and recognised by most in U.S.A and other countries as one of theforemost experts on the womens pro game. but as you will see here she feels it is the wrong time for Taylor to turn pro.

    http://www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2012/news100312katietaylor.htm
    V. interesting opinion on WBAN. Timing is everything, after all.

    I just find it hard to think that, given her talent, Taylor won't want to take on the challenge of testing herself in the pro ranks at some point in her career.


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    #51
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    I entirely agree and do indeed believe that she will turn pro eventually - I do believe though that now is NOT the right time - as Sue Fox says.Believe me she knows more about the Pro scene than anyone currently writing about womens pro boxing.More importantly she knows just what is going on "behind the scenes"
    so we are getting the opinion of an unbiased expert rather than someone who might benefit if KT were to turn pro now.

    Another benefit of course is that if she decided to remain an amateur now but changed her mind in a year or two and wanted a new challenge then if the pro scene improved considerably she could easily do so. On the other hand if she turns pro now and was "seriously unhappy" there is no way back to the amateur ranks and to Rio....

    marbless wrote: »
    V. interesting opinion on WBAN. Timing is everything, after all.

    I just find it hard to think that, given her talent, Taylor won't want to take on the challenge of testing herself in the pro ranks at some point in her career.


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    #52
    barney4001
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭barney4001


    i would be sorry to see Katie go pro,lose one fight and her reputation is gone in the pros,Katie has nothing left to prove in boxing she has done it all


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    #53
    marbless
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭marbless


    barney4001 wrote: »
    Katie has nothing left to prove in boxing she has done it all
    That's true of amateur boxing. But it would be interesting to see her tested in the professional arena - longer bouts, no head-protection and less compassionate referees. I've no doubt she'd prosper.

    However, given Katie's strongly-held religious beliefs, I wonder how comfortable she'd be in the pro ranks? The ethos there is much more ruthless. And would she willing to share a ring with the scantily-clad round-card girls who feature in so many professional shows? I mean that quite seriously - she might be very offended by this aspect of the pro scene.


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    #54
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Very interesting comment from MARBLESS in final para.
    And not just the scantily -clad- round-card girls" either. Also the level of participation from the boxers in AGRESSIVELY promoting fights against each other, and how they are encouraged to be equally scantily clad at weigh in, etc.

    Negotiations are going rather slowly with ISC but particularly IABA/AIBA. When commenting on John Joe Nevin's decision to turn pro (with Amir Khan), Johnny Watterson has this to say in today's "Irish Times":

    "Nevin aside, one of the most important elements of the ongoing discussions between all parties is the future of the successful coaches from London. All of the boxers have expressed their view that the team headed by Billy Walsh, Pete Taylor and Zaur Antia should be kept in place and benchmarked against what coaches in other Olympic sports federations are being paid for delivering results that are, frankly, much less spectacular than boxing".

    Remember that Watterson is the journo who is currently working with Katie on her soon to be released book (8 Nov). It is quite clear from her statements this week that she does want to retain her amateur status and defend that title in Rio. After all 30 is NOT "old" in terms of women pro boxers - many of the present champions are aged between 30 and 37, indeed some are older.

    I remain strongly of the view that changes are needed in the Exec Committee of the IABA and though nothing much is likely to change at today's Annual IABA Convention, boxing fans should be encouraging several of the Committee to retire gracefully at the end of a successful year and allow younger Execs to become involved long before the Rio Games, including one or two women.

    For the times they are a changing and the IABA needs to become much more 'professional' in its dealings with the boxers, and management of the sport in general,including obtaining greater sponsorships. Some of the post Olympic comments from IABA Execs show that they completely are out of touch . What may have been ok in the 1990's or even 2000's is simply not what is needed today.

    Insofar as Katie is concerned a decision has to be made "any day now" as pro promoters are not willing to wait much longer. I still expect her to remain in amateur ranks but the IABA will need to 'get a move on' if they are not to face severe criticism should Taylor go pro, especially now that Nevin seems likely to confirm his decision to so do on RTE tonight.


    And yes, MARBLESS's final paragraph is VERY relevant to the Taylors.It should not be discounted.

    marbless wrote: »
    That's true of amateur boxing. But it would be interesting to see her tested in the professional arena - longer bouts, no head-protection and less compassionate referees. I've no doubt she'd prosper.

    However, given Katie's strongly-held religious beliefs, I wonder how comfortable she'd be in the pro ranks? The ethos there is much more ruthless. And would she willing to share a ring with the scantily-clad round-card girls who feature in so many professional shows? I mean that quite seriously - she might be very offended by this aspect of the pro scene.


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    #55
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Probably been posted already, but it really looks like KT will stay amateur for now at least

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2012/1004/340331-taylor-wants-to-defend-olympic-title/


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    #56
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,301 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    walshb wrote: »
    Probably been posted already, but it really looks like KT will stay amateur for now at least

    http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2012/1004/340331-taylor-wants-to-defend-olympic-title/

    Good call, she would be a good shout at another medal in Rio, and her staying amateur is good for the scene in Irish boxing as well I feel.

    It could get more people willing to get into or at least try boxing.


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    #57
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Another good example tonight from Wban.com of some of the mismatches that still regularly crop up in womens pro boxing and to make matters even worse this complete mismatch is for a World title.... not of course that all such fights are mismatches but alas far too many are ...

    http://www.womenboxing.com/NEWS2012/news101312mckenziefightingfortitlewithninelosses.htm


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Good call, she would be a good shout at another medal in Rio, and her staying amateur is good for the scene in Irish boxing as well I feel.

    It could get more people willing to get into or at least try boxing.


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    #58
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2012/1018/342205-taylor-to-remain-amateur-defend-olympic-title/


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    #59
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Yes that's good news especially following the confusion over JJN and whether he really has turned pro or plans to remain an amateur...

    http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/athletics_irish/katie-taylor-to-remain-an-amateur787979/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook






    [


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    #60
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,701 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    For anyone interested Katie will be in Easons on Sunday to sign her new book, 1330 hrs!


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    #61
    mjon3105
    Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭mjon3105


    Hi Bren.
    Three interesting KT related items today:

    1.First of two extracts from the book (from Irish Times)
    http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/other/2012/1105/1224326163643.html#.UJfvCBlTUHw.twitter



    2.The World Premiere of the Olympic Games film simply named "FIRST" is
    scheduled for London tomorrow evening.

    3. News that world no 3, Mavzuna Chorieva, is to retire at least temporarily from the sport....will she return? probably not ....

    http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/10/30/tajikistans-million-dollar-baby-hangs-up-her-gloves/


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