Would Katie Taylor going pro be bad for women's boxing?

Pisco Sour

The enormous crowds for the women's boxing in London is testiment to how far the sport has come, and a lot of it is thanks to Katie Taylor. If she was to go pro and leave the amateur game, how would they fill that void? Would the sport go backwards in terms of TV audiences etc? I would imagine that the AIBA need Katie now, more than ever before, to really help the sport kick on over the next 4 years, so that come 2016, after Rio, she could leave behind a sport with increasing strength. Would leaving now really halt the momentum that the sport has gained over the last while?

Big Ears

The tv audiences/live attenance wasn't really there before the Olympics, and Taylor aside it won't be there after whether she's there or not. That statement largely goes in line for male amateur boxing too, although not to the same extent.

Yes Taylor staying amateur will help keep the profile of women's amateur boxing at a higher level, but out of the Olympics new stars have emerged, Nicola Adams, Claressa Shields, Sofiya Ochigava, Natasha Jonas, Mary Kom (yes she's on the wane etc) who was already huge in her native India. The sport shouldn't just be about one person anyway, I mean if there is genuine strength in depth in a sport it should be able to operator to a very high level even without it's finest practitioner.

So while it would affect the women's amateur game should she go pro, it certainly wouldn't be a death sentence to it. The affect would mainly be felt in Ireland, but hopefully we'll have other rising female boxers to fill the void, someone like Ceire Smith, or maybe with more experience Carla Wright.
For those not in the know Katie is not the reigning Irish women's 60 Kg champion, Carla Wright is (although she did not beat Katie, she won by walkover with Katie preparing for an International tournament). Wright's very inexperienced but some people have been saying good things about her and she looks very powerful and quite quick at the very least

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEXOEHg8bbA

, so while we're unlikely to replace Katie with a fighter of quite the same calibre anytime soon, I think we'll do just fine.

On the other hand, what her turning pro could do for the women's pro game could be monumental, .

barney4001

She certainly looks good on the pads seems to carry a dig as well good luck to her

Just An Opinion

This Carla Wright girl has some sh!t hot powerful combos, wouldn't be on Katie Taylor's level now but best of luck to her. Anyone know what age she is?

cowzerp

Just An Opinion wrote: »

This Carla Wright girl has some sh!t hot powerful combos, wouldn't be on Katie Taylor's level now but best of luck to her. Anyone know what age she is?

I have Girls in my Boxing class that look lethal on pads but could not hit snow off a rope in real-when your been hit and have to dodge etc then you see what the Boxer is like, so although she looks good on the pads, it tells me nothing about how good a Boxer she is, lot's more to fighting than just hitting a target that is there for you.

Pads are great by the way-I'm just saying been good at them does not necessarily mean you are a good fighter.

barney4001

Plans are being put in place for Rio 16 for 3 new ladies boxing weights and talk of dropping mens lightflyweight and some other correction in mens weights all to make up for the womens extra weight divisions,talks of paring each mens divisions back to a round of 16 format or doing away with one or two weights altogether

Just An Opinion

cowzerp wrote: »

Just An Opinion wrote: »

This Carla Wright girl has some sh!t hot powerful combos, wouldn't be on Katie Taylor's level now but best of luck to her. Anyone know what age she is?

I have Girls in my Boxing class that look lethal on pads but could not hit snow off a rope in real-when your been hit and have to dodge etc then you see what the Boxer is like, so although she looks good on the pads, it tells me nothing about how good a Boxer she is, lot's more to fighting than just hitting a target that is there for you.

Pads are great by the way-I'm just saying been good at them does not necessarily mean you are a good fighter.

Yea of course I accept that 100% an opponent dosent present a standing routined target, I'm just impressed with how tidy and powerful her combos are, impressive.

walshb

Katie should not go pro. And I know her dad is against the idea. The girl should never have to want for anything after all she has achieved for herself and her country. Although, if she wants to go pro out of hunger and desire then that is different. Certainly financially she should not need to go pro. She is a national treasure. An icon of Irish sport.

barney4001

walshb wrote: »

Katie should not go pro. And I know her dad is against the idea. The girl should never have to want for anything after all she has achieved for herself and her country. Although, if she wants to go pro out of hunger and desire then that is different. Certainly financially she should not need to go pro. She is a national treasure. An icon of Irish sport.

Exactly, she is made for life and can win gold again in Rio

splashthecash

walshb wrote: »

Katie should not go pro. And I know her dad is against the idea. The girl should never have to want for anything after all she has achieved for herself and her country. Although, if she wants to go pro out of hunger and desire then that is different. Certainly financially she should not need to go pro. She is a national treasure. An icon of Irish sport.

Completely agree but would she make enough for a living off amateur athlete sponsershop?

barney4001

splashthecash wrote: »

Completely agree but would she make enough for a living off amateur athlete sponsershop?

she has plenty of endorsements to do just that

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Katie should not go pro. And I know her dad is against the idea. The girl should never have to want for anything after all she has achieved for herself and her country. Although, if she wants to go pro out of hunger and desire then that is different. Certainly financially she should not need to go pro. She is a national treasure. An icon of Irish sport.

barney4001 wrote: »

Exactly, she is made for life and can win gold again in Rio

she is hardly wealthy and it is a short career-she might never be a pauper but certainly not wealthy, If she can cash in she should, Is the money there in Por womens Boxing? i dont know-could be actually for the next year or 2 here i believe.

ScumLord

Katie being such a big name could bring women's boxing on a lot in terms of popularity if she went pro. It would mean more year long publicity for the sport. Very few people follow amateur compared to the amount of people that will watch a big professional boxing match.

mjon3105

I entirely agree with Bren on this one. In any event womens pro boxing is on the decline in USA and has been for some years - of course there are the odd very good pros like Holly Holm who would be much too strong for Katie until latter had at least two probably three bouts under her belt . Womens pro boxing in USA is in a poor state now and is unlikely to improve much in next few years. It is strong in Argentina and Mexico and of course in Germany.
Mismatches are very frequent and fights are often called off without explanation days,sometimes hours before the fight.

Phrases like "Million Dollar Baby" are a joke. Nice headling but gives a totally false impression of potential earnings. The link below from the "Mail" does pretty accurately sum up the state of womens pro boxing.And frankly although Germany is "reasonably strong" at the moment the German women in Taylor's weight divisions would not draw large crowds in their own right. Yes you'd get large crowds if a German champ met Taylor on undercard of a men's world title fight as indeed would be the case in USA or other countries but then the women would get only a tiny proportion of the gate receipts and meet all of their own expenses out of that.

The Taylors have always been very successful in their 'decision making'. Katie quite correctly is keeping options open - she would be extremely foolish if she did not. The ball is now firmly in the court of others.

The IABA and indeed the ISC desperately need Taylor to be the "driver" behind trying to get more women to take up not only boxing but other sports. People will always look up to a champion,even more so to a world,European and now Olympic champion.

Let us also remember that the AIBA need to take the sport forward internationally so they desperately need to retain Taylor's services. Who would replace her? Ochigava? Hardly, and certainly an unlikely flag bearer for the AIBA having constantly repeated that they give Taylor a 10 point start in every bout.

I'd like very much to hear from anyone on this (or any other) Boards forum who can tell me that they have figures that would show the Mail story to be wrong, and where I can find the evidence because having spoken to many of the top American journalists and administrators (both amateur and pro) their views are pretty similar to what appears in the article below.Indeed some go further and paint a more depressing picture.


Failure to secure the services of Katie Taylor for the next four years would be a catastrophe for the AIBA, IABA, ISC and Irish sport in general, in my opinion
but SHE will be the final decision maker. And that decision needs to be made soon. There is no time to be lost ... Ireland 'punched above their weight' in London 2012 but the boxers themselves apart, who are the REAL 'powers behind the throne'? Many will claim the credit but for me it is people like Gary Keegan who started the H.P.U, Billy Walsh, Zuar Antia, and the Taylor family and of course the club coaches round the country.

Some of you will have seen the "Irish Mail on Sunday" original article .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2187213/Top-boxers-officials-lift-lid-grubby-sexist-women-s-professional-game-US-fighters-exploited-prize-money-doesn-t-cover-cost-air-fares-fighters-resort-posing-nude-mags.html

Syferus

If Michael Ring and company are smart they'll make the relatively small amount of money it'll take to tie up Walsh, Antia and the Taylors for the next four years available. Shout it from the rooftops that it's to secure our 'boxing legacy', use it as a political tool as opaquely and as obviously as possible, just get the damn thing done.

It's still mind-boogling that we let such talented coaches run along without even medium-term contracts. The sheer level of Katie's achievements are more than deserving of a special level of grant.

barney4001

I read that Daily Mail article in the Irish Mail and i looked up the womens records some of them seem to be busy enough but what sort of money they are generating it never really said,seems the promoters want 10 2 minute rounds mostly

barney4001

THEY NEED HER SHE DON'T NEED THEM

Syferus

The pound-for-pound #1 is the other fighter in that equation. As you said, there's a better standard of boxers in the amateurs than the pros.

I think Holy Holm's relative anonymity despite her resume and her sojourns in combat sports, nevermind her desire to fight someone who is still an amateur, tells its own story about professional womens' boxing.

barney4001

the pound for pound world number 1 wants to fight her- so she is already the biggest fight out there: http://www.irish-boxing.com/2012/08/...n-taylor-bout/

Holy Holms has had 3 fights this past 2 years and is at welter weight maybe she is short of opponents

marbless

http://www.irish-boxing.com/2012/08/pound-for-pound-no-2-urges-taylor-to-ease-her-way-into-pros/


Interesting comments by Anne-Sophie Mathis (French champion pro boxer) about Katie's future plans.


This clip, in which Mathis KOs Holly Holm last year, illustrates the difference between pro-boxing and the amateur game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPKmnHT9s4

Big Ears

marbless wrote: »

http://www.irish-boxing.com/2012/08/pound-for-pound-no-2-urges-taylor-to-ease-her-way-into-pros/


Interesting comments by Anne-Sophie Mathis (French champion pro boxer) about Katie's future plans.


This clip, in which Mathis KOs Holly Holm last year, illustrates the difference between pro-boxing and the amateur game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNPKmnHT9s4

Sensible stuff from Mathis, Taylor is much smaller than Mathis and quite a bit smaller than Holm aswell, if Katie were to turn pro, anyone thinking she'd jump straight in there with these girls is crazy.
There's a good chance Katie would be fighting at Super-Featherweight if she were a professional fighter, you don't put a Super-Featherweight in with a Welterweight who happens to be the #1/#2 fighter in the sport straight away, no matter how good an amateur they were.

In this hypothetical situation (because who knows what she'll do yet), I think putting her in around European level in her own weight class would be the best way to start things off.

marbless

Big Ears wrote: »

In this hypothetical situation (because who knows what she'll do yet), I think putting her in around European level in her own weight class would be the best way to start things off.

Thanks for this info - who are the leading fighters in Katie's weight class? Would a typical women's pro match (non-title) be staged over 6 2-minute rounds? Are women expected to fight 3-minute rounds for a title belt?

Big Ears

marbless wrote: »

Thanks for this info - who are the leading fighters in Katie's weight class? Would a typical women's pro match (non-title) be staged over 6 2-minute rounds? Are women expected to fight 3-minute rounds for a title belt?

Well I can tell you who the top ranked fighters (and the girls who hold the belts) are, but just incase anyone wants to quiz me on anything specific about them I won't pretend on having seen them fight

Frida Wallberg, Kina Malpartida, Diana Prazak, Amanda Serrano, Ramona Kuehne are the top 5 girls at Super-Featherweight (presuming this is where Katie would operate), and hold all the main belts other than the IBF. Wallberg and Prazak are fighting each other in November, and I suppose you could call the winner of that the #1.

Non-title fights vary just like the men's, with 4,6,8 round fights common. Title fights like all other fights have rounds of a 2 minute duration.

marbless

Big Ears wrote: »

Well I can tell you who the top ranked fighters (and the girls who hold the belts) are, but just incase anyone wants to quiz me on anything specific about them I won't pretend on having seen them fight

Frida Wallberg, Kina Malpartida, Diana Prazak, Amanda Serrano, Ramona Kuehne are the top 5 girls at Super-Featherweight (presuming this is where Katie would operate), and hold all the main belts other than the IBF. Wallberg and Prazak are fighting each other in November, and I suppose you could call the winner of that the #1.

Non-title fights vary just like the men's, with 4,6,8 round fights common. Title fights like all other fights have rounds of a 2 minute duration.

Thanks for the steer on the big names. There's full coverage of a title fight between Wallberg and Serrano on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkT-yMpYXuM

mjon3105

Hi all

All you need to know about women's pro boxing you can find on the leading american website wban.com widely acknowledged as not only the original but also the best of the sites which cover women's boxing (pro and/or amateur) anywhere in the world and not just in u.s.a.

They have all the stats and many of the vids/clips online from last 10 years or more and also very interesting info re the decline in womens pro boxing in recent years in usa. Have a read of the section on latest trends from Dee Williams covering years from 1993-2012 and indeed on Sue Fox's History fo Womens Boxing through the ages. Fascinating reading.


Should you wish to access the full library of vids subscription rates are very reasonable .... and yes I do declare an interest as one of the contributors to wban.com BUT that apart, it IS the most comprehensive of all sites, operated by former pro boxer T.Sue Fox and not in any way sponsored by any promoters or others with vested interests.

They also have coverage of the womens amateur boxers with profiles on many of the top amateurs.,so is particularly useful if you want to have a "blow by blow" account of Katie's career from 2001 to 2008/9 with many of the contributions from Dee Williams and also from IABA's excellent P.R.O Bernard O'Neill. Read that profile and you will know most of what there is to know about her early years in boxing.

http://www.wban.org/biog/ktaylor.htm


Remember once Katie turns pro - should she do so - there is no way back to the amateur sport nor to Rio 2016, as the existing rules stand. And as for talk of Katie or anyone else being a "Million Dollar Baby" well that is just a figment of the imagination (mainly of sections of the media) based on the excellent film.

Even Holly Holm as world champ gets considerably less that 20,000 USD,indeed some say less than 10,000 for a world title bout.And remember there is little TV coverage and what there is is PPV so only a modest share of that especially as more than likely Katie would be a "support" act for a men's world title bout, in most fights albeit perhaps not to begin with. Again ALL of the costs would have to be paid by Team Taylor eg: travel , accommodation,equipment,agents fees,etc etc.

Women's Pro boxing is totally different from women's amateur boxing and Katie would need an absolute minimum 3/4 fights before being able to challenge for any meaningful title. Holly Holm and Ann Sophie Mathis are in a different class than almost any others in that division just now.


So should Katie turn Pro? Clearly that is a matter for Katie, Pete and Bridget & rest of the Taylor family with Katie the final decision maker and rightly so. Goes without saying that all Taylor fans in Ireland and elsewhere will support her whatever she decides. I don't believe that the decisive factor will be "money" albeit that is important to any amateur boxer, male or female but equally important, indeed arguably even more important, are personal happiness, new challenges and what is likely to happen in next four years.

The AIBA, IABA, the OCI to some extent and of course the I.S.C will be key players here but will they be up to the challenge??? Can they convince her that she has a significant role to play not only in Ireland but elsewhere in taking women's amateur boxing on to the next stage and also play a meaningful ambassadorial role in getting more and more young women take an active part in sport (not necessarily boxing) in Ireland in the future?

Their input into the discussions likely to have already taken place or be about to take place may well be a major factor in Katie's decision.By mid to late 2013 it is likely (in my opinion) that the AIBA will have developed a women's pro section which would still allow their boxers to participate in future Olympic and World championships but would not be open to the pro's of 2012., no more than they were allowed at this year's Olympics.

She certainly has the ability and is the right "role model" to take on such challenges in the next four years and remain within the amateur sport at least up to and including Rio.... Interesting weeks ahead!

marbless

Big Ears wrote: »

Non-title fights vary just like the men's, with 4,6,8 round fights common. Title fights like all other fights have rounds of a 2 minute duration.

It seems odd that women's rounds are only 2 mins long. Obviously they wouldn't be expected to fight as many rounds as men, but a lesser number of 3-min rounds would seem logical to me. Like in tennis - women's matches are played over 3 sets maximum instead of men's 5, but the sets themselves are the same duration.

marbless

mjon3105 wrote: »

Hi all

All you need to know about women's pro boxing you can find on the leading american website wban.com widely acknowledged as not only the original but also the best of the sites which cover women's boxing (pro and/or amateur) anywhere in the world and not just in u.s.a.

They have all the stats and many of the vids/clips online from last 10 years or more and also very interesting info re the decline in womens pro boxing in recent years in usa. Have a read of the section on latest trends from Dee Williams covering years from 1993-2012 and indeed on Sue Fox's History fo Womens Boxing through the ages. Fascinating reading.


Should you wish to access the full library of vids subscription rates are very reasonable .... and yes I do declare an interest as one of the contributors to wban.com BUT that apart, it IS the most comprehensive of all sites, operated by former pro boxer T.Sue Fox and not in any way sponsored by any promoters or others with vested interests.

They also have coverage of the womens amateur boxers with profiles on many of the top amateurs.,so is particularly useful if you want to have a "blow by blow" account of Katie's career from 2001 to 2008/9 with many of the contributions from Dee Williams and also from IABA's excellent P.R.O Bernard O'Neill. Read that profile and you will know most of what there is to know about her early years in boxing.

http://www.wban.org/biog/ktaylor.htm


Remember once Katie turns pro - should she do so - there is no way back to the amateur sport nor to Rio 2016, as the existing rules stand. And as for talk of Katie or anyone else being a "Million Dollar Baby" well that is just a figment of the imagination (mainly of sections of the media) based on the excellent film.

Even Holly Holm as world champ gets considerably less that 20,000 USD,indeed some say less than 10,000 for a world title bout.And remember there is little TV coverage and what there is is PPV so only a modest share of that especially as more than likely Katie would be a "support" act for a men's world title bout, in most fights albeit perhaps not to begin with. Again ALL of the costs would have to be paid by Team Taylor eg: travel , accommodation,equipment,agents fees,etc etc.

Women's Pro boxing is totally different from women's amateur boxing and Katie would need an absolute minimum 3/4 fights before being able to challenge for any meaningful title. Holly Holm and Ann Sophie Mathis are in a different class than almost any others in that division just now.


So should Katie turn Pro? Clearly that is a matter for Katie, Pete and Bridget & rest of the Taylor family with Katie the final decision maker and rightly so. Goes without saying that all Taylor fans in Ireland and elsewhere will support her whatever she decides. I don't believe that the decisive factor will be "money" albeit that is important to any amateur boxer, male or female but equally important, indeed arguably even more important, are personal happiness, new challenges and what is likely to happen in next four years.

The AIBA, IABA, the OCI to some extent and of course the I.S.C will be key players here but will they be up to the challenge??? Can they convince her that she has a significant role to play not only in Ireland but elsewhere in taking women's amateur boxing on to the next stage and also play a meaningful ambassadorial role in getting more and more young women take an active part in sport (not necessarily boxing) in Ireland in the future?

Their input into the discussions likely to have already taken place or be about to take place may well be a major factor in Katie's decision.By mid to late 2013 it is likely (in my opinion) that the AIBA will have developed a women's pro section which would still allow their boxers to participate in future Olympic and World championships but would not be open to the pro's of 2012., no more than they were allowed at this year's Olympics.

She certainly has the ability and is the right "role model" to take on such challenges in the next four years and remain within the amateur sport at least up to and including Rio.... Interesting weeks ahead!

Brilliant post - full of useful info.

Who will win between Mathis and Cecilia Braekhus later this month, in your opinion?

barney4001

Id go for Braekhus tko

marbless

If Katie turns pro, is there a supply of "easy" opponents in her weight division she could fight as build-up to a title shot?

H. Flashman

i think katie going pro would be great

mjon3105

In my humble opinion Mathis will win that one. Her overall record shows she has defeated many more "top quality" boxers than has Braekhus though the fight will be in Denmark. Much will depend on how well Mathis has recovered from her bouts against Holm. Braekhus of course has an excellent 20-0-0 record (Incidentally as an amateur she once defeated Alanna Murphy (the former Alanna Audley) in a European championship event). She has improved considerably since turning pro.But her opponents have not been of the same high standard as those that Mathis' has fought, so far.

ps: In my previous post I did overlook another important factor that will be a consideration for Katie Taylor and that is what the IABA/ ISC can - and will - do for not only Peter Taylor but also Zuar Antia and indeed Billy Walsh in terms of renewed/improved contracts/payments ...

This overall package is important as Katie being a major part of 'Team Taylor' would also wish to ensure that the coaches are treated with respect and remunerated properly. IMHO it would be a big mistake to believe that this is purely a "Katie Taylor-only" 'issue' ie: whether she stays amateur or turns pro.

My personal belief (and it is just that! ) is that the Taylors lean towards Katie remaining with the IABA/AIBA but if progress is NOT made within a reasonable time say 6 weeks max then provided the pro contract is "fair and reasonable" then she 'could be persuaded' to accept that albeit not necessarily moving to America.

Many scribes were convinced that she would retire - having heard her Dad's comments pre-Olympics , but though she remains a quiet personality outside the ring one will have noted even from the Late Late Show that she has grown tremendously in confidence,and is now very much in charge of her own destiny albeit the family links are as close - if not closer - than ever.

I would expect her to move away from her own boxing career (whether amateur or pro) by end of 2016 - at the latest - and probably do volunteer work in Africa followed by more active participation in her Church's activities at home and abroad combined with coaching and promotion of sport (especially women in sport) in Ireland.

Remember too that despite her very quiet, soft voice she has potential to earn a lot of money outside the ring as these extracts from an August, Kantar Media analysis shows:

"The report found that Taylor generated 5,173 pieces in the media and graced the front pages of 131 publications for the period 20 July to 12th August. Descriptions of the Bray athlete further cemented her popular image with 1,081 pieces naming her as either, ‘hero’, ‘legend’, ‘golden girl’ or ‘million dollar’."....and ... "Katie Taylor has filled more column inches in Ireland so far this year than other high profile sporting heroes, including Rory McIlroy, Brian O’Driscoll and Jonathan Sexton, that alone should help make a strong case for increased sponsorship...."

As I said, interesting days/weeks/months ahead.

marbless wrote: »

Brilliant post - full of useful info.

Who will win between Mathis and Cecilia Braekhus later this month, in your opinion?