are atheists as irratating as born again christians?

Sonics2k

How is this surprising?

Some people are dícks, no matter their stance on religion.

magicbastarder

Deleted User wrote: »

A lot of people seem to think people like Richard Dawkins are shrill, arrogant, intolerant etc. That doesn't make sense.

First of all, fundamentally, not all ideas are equally valid.

the validity of an argument often has little to do with how shrill or irritating someone is. many people can annoy the **** out of you no matter how valid their argument.

bhamsteve

Galvasean wrote: »

Do atheists knock on people's doors preaching how there is no God?

No, but i have noticed an increase in people going out of their way to belittle the beliefs of those with religion/ spirituality.
It seems to have gone beyond atheists voicing their beliefs to just trying to antagonize Christians at every opportunity, through the media, forums or any other means.
For the record I am not religious or a particulaly spiritual person but I have respect for other peoples beliefs. I would not go to an Islamic country by rubbishing their faith, I wouldn't go to Tibet and preach to everyone that there is no scientific evidence for reincarnation.
I fail to understand why atheists seem to have an axe to grind, just live and let live.

seamus

bhamsteve wrote: »

I fail to understand why atheists seem to have an axe to grind, just live and let live.

There would be no axe to grind if everybody abided by your last statement.

The reason why atheist groups exist at all is because religious groups exist and attempt to interfere with how the rest of the world lives their lives.

bhamsteve

MagicMarker wrote: »

Can you give examples of the preaching atheism on par with door knocking, bible bashing Christians that you speak of?

No, the sun is shining and life is too short to spend the next hour researching and writing a detailed reply. I don't have to look too far to detect the condescending disrespectful attitude of atheists towards those with religion, there's enough of it here on boards.
Yes, we all know that their is no scientific evidence in any god or divine force, atheists can claim the intellectual superiority, but it is important to some people so why piss on their parade?

bhamsteve

seamus wrote: »

There would be no axe to grind if everybody abided by your last statement.

The reason why atheist groups exist at all is because religious groups exist and attempt to interfere with how the rest of the world lives their lives.

I'm all in favor of a secular society, and see the need for atheists to be represented. It just seems to me that people get off on rubbishing the beliefs of others, and atheists are becoming as guilty of this as people of religion.

quaalude

Two words - Ricky Gervais. I'm an atheist, and this twonk makes me want go to mass.

MagicMarker

bhamsteve wrote: »

No, the sun is shining and life is too short to spend the next hour researching and writing a detailed reply.

No research or detailed reply is needed, a brief explanation that would take no longer than it took you to write your post would have sufficed. Maybe there's another reason why you won't provide an example? Hmmm....

NegativeCreep

The majority of them on internet fora such as this are. They are militant about their atheism. Anyone who disagrees with them is immediately dismissed as a fool. I'm atheist myself but I wouldn't dream of dissing anyone about their beliefs unless they bring it up. Live and let live is my motto!

TwoShedsJackson

bhamsteve wrote: »

No, but i have noticed an increase in people going out of their way to belittle the beliefs of those with religion/ spirituality.
It seems to have gone beyond atheists voicing their beliefs to just trying to antagonize Christians at every opportunity, through the media, forums or any other means.
For the record I am not religious or a particulaly spiritual person but I have respect for other peoples beliefs. I would not go to an Islamic country by rubbishing their faith, I wouldn't go to Tibet and preach to everyone that there is no scientific evidence for reincarnation.
I fail to understand why atheists seem to have an axe to grind, just live and let live.

Religious beliefs are not deserving of any special respect simply because they are religious.

bhamsteve

quaalude wrote: »

Two words - Ricky Gervais. I'm an atheist, and this twonk makes me want go to mass.

Case closed. He must be the most arrogant, smug, annoying knob on the TV. I'm not surprised he's jumped on the bandwagon, anything to distract from the fact he is the most un-funny comedian of his generation :-)

Sarky

When your case consists of one data point, there's something wrong with your case. But you just don't have time to find more supporting evidence, do you?

robindch

bhamsteve wrote: »

[...] it is important to some people so why piss on their parade?

Perhaps because some of them take every opportunity they can to indoctrinate my child against my explicitly-stated wishes to the contrary?

Alternatively, well, if they don't want to be laughed at, perhaps they should believe something that isn't atrociously silly.

bhamsteve

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Religious beliefs are not deserving of any special respect simply because they are religious.

They are deeply important to the people who hold them though.
But why not show people a bit of respect? What do you get out of challenging peoples belief? Satisfaction? Kicks? A feeling of superiority?

MagicMarker

bhamsteve wrote: »

They are deeply important to the people who hold them though.
But why not show people a bit of respect? What do you get out of challenging peoples belief? Satisfaction? Kicks? A feeling of superiority?

This is the A&A forum, if religious people come here they should expect to have their beliefs challenged. Why do you have a problem with this?

bhamsteve

Sarky wrote: »

When your case consists of one data point, there's something wrong with your case. But you just don't have time to find more supporting evidence, do you?

If that is aimed at me, I was saying it tongue in cheek.

Wiggles88

bhamsteve wrote: »

They are deeply important to the people who hold them though.
But why not show people a bit of respect? What do you get out of challenging peoples belief? Satisfaction? Kicks? A feeling of superiority?

Why does the fact that they are important to some people automatically mean I have to respect religious views despite them being bigoted and nonsensical?

bhamsteve

MagicMarker wrote: »

This is the A&A forum, if religious people come here they should expect to have their beliefs challenged. Why do you have a problem with this?

I was writing a reply to the original post, are atheists as irritating as born again christians. I think they are. Nearly.

Dades

bhamsteve wrote: »

Case closed. He must be the most arrogant, smug, annoying knob on the TV. I'm not surprised he's jumped on the bandwagon, anything to distract from the fact he is the most un-funny comedian of his generation :-)

You say case closed yet go on to explain the motivations behind what he's done? Publicity.

Is it just this forum that bothers you? People in here no showing respect for other people's beliefs?

Because there's fcuk all of it going on the Irish media. Just this week they released a poll suggesting that religiosity in Ireland was diminishing at a rapid rate. I've heard two radio shows and seen one TV piece about it - all were either fluffy tippy-toeing around the idea of "faith" or nonsensical rhetoric from cathiolic apologists (one of whom called atheists "stupid" on air). Not one voice did I hear from the hoards of so-called militant atheists that have infiltrated our media.

Why do non-believers have an axe to grind? Because there things in their lives that are affected by the "harmless" faith of others. My kids will almost certainly be taught someone else's religion in school for a start - funded by my taxes.

It's simple naiveté to think because your life isn't impacted in any way by something, that all is rosy in the garden. Or to think that anything - including religion - should be free from question or scrutiny. Well guess what - religion has every chance to defend itself, and it's about time it started proving why it deserves to remain on it's pedestal.

seamus

bhamsteve wrote: »

They are deeply important to the people who hold them though.
But why not show people a bit of respect? What do you get out of challenging peoples belief? Satisfaction? Kicks? A feeling of superiority?

So if someone believes that black people are evil and require segregation, we should show those beliefs a bit of respect and not challenge them because they're "deeply important"?

No, you're going to say that it's OK for someone to hold that belief provided that they don't act on it or try to push it on others. As soon as they express it in public or try to force it on others, they should be ridiculed, right?

Bingo.

NegativeCreep

Dades wrote: »

You say case closed yet go on to explain the motivations behind what he's done? Publicity.

Is it just this forum that bothers you? People in here no showing respect for other people's beliefs?

Because there's fcuk all of it going on the Irish media. Just this week they released a poll suggesting that religiosity in Ireland was diminishing at a rapid rate. I've heard two radio shows and seen one TV piece about it - all were either fluffy tippy-toeing around the idea of "faith" or nonsensical rhetoric from cathiolic apologists (one of whom called atheists "stupid" on air). Not one voice did I hear from the hoards of so-called militant atheists that have infiltrated our media.

Why do non-believers have an axe to grind? Because there things in their lives that are affected by the "harmless" faith of others. My kids will almost certainly be taught someone else's religion in school for a start - funded by my taxes.

It's simple naiveté to think because your life isn't impacted in any way by something, that all is rosy in the garden. Or to think that anything - including religion - should be free from question or scrutiny. Well guess what - religion has every chance to defend itself, and it's about time it started proving why it deserves to remain on it's pedestal.

Who said anything about them infiltrating the media? I think people are talking about internet forums and the like. There are very few outspoken atheists on telly, well at least ones that are willing to talk about atheism live on air.

Also, you can pull them out of the religion course in primary school and it isn't necessary to do it in secondary either.

bhamsteve

Wiggles88 wrote: »

Why does the fact that they are important to some people automatically mean I have to respect religious views despite them being bigoted and nonsensical?

I'd say you'd be right to challenge the bigot, but could just allow people their nonsensical beliefs in the knowledge that they were bought up with them, find comfort in them, are too deeply ingrained for people to want to change at their stage of life.
That said, this is an atheism thread, so say whatever you like here.
Would you challenge your parents or grandparents nonsensical beliefs, or just leave them to it?

MagicMarker

bhamsteve wrote: »

I was writing a reply to the original post, are atheists as irritating as born again christians. I think they are. Nearly.

You didn't answer my question.

First it was "on par" and now it's "nearly". Why the sudden change?

Wiggles88

bhamsteve wrote: »

I'd say you'd be right to challenge the bigot, but could just allow people their nonsensical beliefs in the knowledge that they were bought up with them, find comfort in them, are too deeply ingrained for people to want to change at their stage of life.
That said, this is an atheism thread, so say whatever you like here.
Would you challenge your parents or grandparents nonsensical beliefs, or just leave them to it?

Its interesting that this kind of view is only applied to religious, for example if someone truly believed that Elvis was alive and well and living on mars at the very least he would be met with ridicule as most he would be given psychiatric counseling yet this is no crazier than most religious claims.

bhamsteve

seamus wrote: »

So if someone believes that black people are evil and require segregation, we should show those beliefs a bit of respect and not challenge them because they're "deeply important"?

No, you're going to say that it's OK for someone to hold that belief provided that they don't act on it or try to push it on others. As soon as they express it in public or try to force it on others, they should be ridiculed, right?

Bingo.

If someone thinks there's a man in the sky with a beard looking out for everyone, leave them to it. When it infringes on your freedoms and right to self determination, then challenge it, but tactfully, not by ridiculing.
I don't quite get the comparison with racism, I would not tolerate this and don't see them as the same.

Mark Hamill

bhamsteve wrote: »

I'm all in favor of a secular society, and see the need for atheists to be represented. It just seems to me that people get off on rubbishing the beliefs of others, and atheists are becoming as guilty of this as people of religion.

"Getting off on" it aside, rubbishing the beliefs of others is one of the most important things that humans do. Scientific progress is based on the process that when someone comes up with a new idea, you do your best to destroy it because its only the correct ideas that can pass difficult and thorough debunking. Are there ways to go about this, better than others? Sure, you have to allow whoever you are debunking to defend themselves properly - to explain their position properly and to have a chance to defend their ideas - and not everyone does this properly.
I find though that's its almost never atheists that resort to empty emotive arguments, physical threats or oppressive tactics in order to simply silence the opposition.

Mark Hamill

quaalude wrote: »

Two words - Ricky Gervais. I'm an atheist, and this twonk makes me want go to mass.

Because of anything he has said or done as an atheist, or because he is an unfunny git, completely in love with himself?

Mark Hamill

NegativeCreep wrote: »

The majority of them on internet fora such as this are. They are militant about their atheism.

Can you give an example of anyone on this forum or any others who has been violent in relation to their atheism?

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Live and let live is my motto!

It woudl be nice if religions had the same motto.

Dades

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Who said anything about them infiltrating the media? I think people are talking about internet forums and the like. There are very few outspoken atheists on telly, well at least ones that are willing to talk about atheism live on air.

Here:

bhamsteve wrote: »

No, but i have noticed an increase in people going out of their way to belittle the beliefs of those with religion/ spirituality.
It seems to have gone beyond atheists voicing their beliefs to just trying to antagonize Christians at every opportunity, through the media, forums or any other means.

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Also, you can pull them out of the religion course in primary school and it isn't necessary to do it in secondary either.

Anecdotal evidence suggests it's a lot easier said than done to simply pull your child from RE class. That also doesn't address the basic question of why we should have to remove our kids from State classrooms, why it isn't done after school and why are we still paying for it?

bhamsteve wrote: »

I'd say you'd be right to challenge the bigot, but could just allow people their nonsensical beliefs in the knowledge that they were bought up with them, find comfort in them, are too deeply ingrained for people to want to change at their stage of life.
That said, this is an atheism thread, so say whatever you like here.
Would you challenge your parents or grandparents nonsensical beliefs, or just leave them to it?

This is a great question and one that needs answering.

The answer is almost certainly, no. Don't mistake a keen interest in religion/non-belief within a sub-forum as a reflection on how posters here go about their every day lives. The most you'll ever see stemming from here is the odd blog, or reply to a letter in the papers from someone spouting nonsense.

Religion should not be above challenge, question or ridicule when it deserves it. Surely it's better done here (where we can asked by anyone at any time to justify what is said) than somewhere "outside"?

Mark Hamill

bhamsteve wrote: »

They are deeply important to the people who hold them though.
But why not show people a bit of respect? What do you get out of challenging peoples belief? Satisfaction? Kicks? A feeling of superiority?

What do they get? Either they successfully defend their beliefs and so they become stronger, or their beliefs are shown to be nonsense, the person abandons them for something better. Win-win, no?