The Avengers: Age of Ultron [** SPOILERS FROM POST 599 ONWARD **]

Thargor

Ah right thanks, anyway I dont care enough to continue discussing them. Love the universe in the comics but these films are just too bland and samey for me to carry on. Ill download them in future and watch them on a Citylink journey or something like that.

DoYouEvenLift

For the people discussing The Raid movies


How unreal would it be to have a superhero movie made by the guys responsible for those movies? I think Evans would do a great job directing a more realistic and gritty superhero movie, but at the same time I would love him and his choreographers to have creative control over fight scenes with someone with insane powers like Thor or even Hulk or Captain America (honestly, Superman would be the best one to see really. They'd do some DBZ type stuff).

Tefral

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

For the people discussing The Raid movies


How unreal would it be to have a superhero movie made by the guys responsible for those movies? I think Evans would do a great job directing a more realistic and gritty superhero movie, but at the same time I would love him and his choreographers to have creative control over fight scenes with someone with insane powers like Thor or even Hulk or Captain America (honestly, Superman would be the best one to see really. They'd do some DBZ type stuff).

Well take Raid for example, the problem is: You could send the Hulk in the front door and let him rip the place apart while Ironman et all wait outside to arrest those who try to escape.

The powers of these guys are so big that the Villains never cut the mustard. Its a problem with Marvel I had from reading the comics even. Theres no peril for the Avengers really in the movies. Thanos might provide this as at one point he literally wipes out half the Universe. If they turn him into something that will easily be defeated its curtains for Marvel as people will be sick to death of it, look at Ultron even, hes pretty dastardly in the Comics, yet didn't really provide much of a Threat in the end.

Im convinced its the reason everyone loved Winter Soldier so much. CAP got his ass handed to him in the end, it genuinely looked like he might be killed.

DoYouEvenLift

cronin_j wrote: »

Well take Raid for example, the problem is: You could send the Hulk in the front door and let him rip the place apart while Ironman et all wait outside to arrest those who try to escape.

The powers of these guys are so big that the Villains never cut the mustard. Its a problem with Marvel I had from reading the comics even. Theres no peril for the Avengers really in the movies. Thanos might provide this as at one point he literally wipes out half the Universe. If they turn him into something that will easily be defeated its curtains for Marvel as people will be sick to death of it, look at Ultron even, hes pretty dastardly in the Comics, yet didn't really provide much of a Threat in the end.

Im convinced its the reason everyone loved Winter Soldier so much. CAP got his ass handed to him in the end, it genuinely looked like he might be killed.

Definitely true about CA WS, it's probably the best one of these marvel movies.

I know it's DC, but superman vs zod would be a perfect fight for the raid creators to make. They could have them doing absolutely insanely aggressive hand to hand combat with sonic punches etc. and basically do some live-action dragon ball z fights which is literally all I want to see in a superhero movie. Picture the last fight in The Raid 2 but with two people with super powers and on a much larger scale than one single confined area like they were in.

Corholio

I think it's Marvels handling of the villains that's the problem rather than the actual villain themselves. I loved Ecclestone's playing of Malekith character wise, one of my favourite choices as a villain so far, but they made him look quite weak in the end and any threat that built up at the start of the movie was softened as the movie went on. A pretty common trait amongst Marvel films so far.

Tefral

Corholio wrote: »

I think it's Marvels handling of the villains that's the problem rather than the actual villain themselves. I loved Ecclestone's playing of Malekith character wise, one of my favourite choices as a villain so far, but they made him look quite weak in the end and any threat that built up at the start of the movie was softened as the movie went on. A pretty common trait amongst Marvel films so far.

Its nearly an inverse relationship, strength or general menace of villain goes down as the film goes on and the strength and resourcefulness of the heros goes up as the film goes on. So by the end you've a Hero thats too powerful and a Villain thats too weak.

Kevin Feige has said in a Q&A in reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/350fsy/kevin_feige_on_avengers_age_of_ultron_will/

"There is no dark turn in the MCU. He says every year fans come up to him and ask him if this movie is when the MCU goes ‘dark’ or takes a ‘dark’ turn. He said while the trailers may seem ominous or have a sense of impending doom, the movies do not have that feel, and will not. He said he ‘Hoped people would catch on by now’ - there will be no giant dark turns in the MCU . The humor is in the DNA of the movies, there are no plans to change that."

FunLover18

I think you can create a threatening villain without going dark. TWS didn't go too dark but we still felt WS was a threat to Cap. Same goes for Abomination. I don't think Ultron was a bad villain because he wasn't dark enough, I actually enjoyed his humour, I didn't like him because of the ease with which the Avengers were ripping apart his minions. Both Avengers movies thus far have favoured quantity over quality with regard to villains.

FunLover18

FunLover18 wrote: »

I think you can create a threatening villain without going dark. TWS didn't go too dark but we still felt WS was a threat to Cap. Same goes for Abomination. I don't think Ultron was a bad villain because he wasn't dark enough, I actually enjoyed his humour, I didn't like him because of the ease with which the Avengers were ripping apart his minions. Both Avengers movies thus far have favoured quantity over quality with regard to villains.

I don't think it mattered that they were able to crush the minions so easily. Ultron seemed to have been relying on numbers as opposed to brute force.

brianregan09

I think they missed a trick not delving into him being across the Internet ...no no jarvis sorted that, massive missed oppurtunity , Like Ultron should have been able to control most wifi things and what have you that would cause a meltdown these days what with nearly everything connected to the internet some how or other

FunLover18

brianregan09 wrote:

I think they missed a trick not delving into him being across the Internet ...no no jarvis sorted that, massive missed oppurtunity , Like Ultron should have been able to control most wifi things and what have you that would cause a meltdown these days what with nearly everything connected to the internet some how or other

Yeh something kinda similar to what happened on Die Hard 4 would've been pretty cool

brianregan09

At the end of the day in the comics Ultron is often portrayed as a Techno Virus not just a physical threat and definitley gives a decent amount of wiggle room with how they tackle him

brianregan09

brianregan09 wrote: »

I think they missed a trick not delving into him being across the Internet ...no no jarvis sorted that, massive missed oppurtunity , Like Ultron should have been able to control most wifi things and what have you that would cause a meltdown these days what with nearly everything connected to the internet some how or other

I think they missed about a dozen tricks over all, there were a number of possibly interesting avenues that the film could have explored but it opted instead to just fill the screen with shiny things and paper over the cracks in the plot with set pieces.

jones

Saw this on Sunday night and while i liked it i didn't think it stood up to the first avengers. Everything felt slightly too rushed (probably due to the sheer number of characters on show). Totally agree about the villains seemingly losing power as each MCU film goes on its definitely a common theme now and i hadnt really thought about it until reading it here.

Spoiler

Even the death in AOU seemed to be just done for the sake of it rather than any emotional pay off or have any great meaning.
/spoiler

I've a feeling a lot of stuff was left on the cutting room floor

Bacchus

jones wrote: »

I've a feeling a lot of stuff was left on the cutting room floor

A lot was. I can't remember the exact figure but defo in the 40+ minutes range was cut. I reallllllly hope this gets a proper directors cut (not just a deleted scenes extra on the BluRay). So much of Thor's side story is missing. It feels like there should have been more to BW while she was in captivity. Something is missing too between Ultron's first attack to the point where he gets to Sokovia and meets the twins. There must be more to Fury's story too. Turning up with a hellicarrier was too jarring as it was done in the theatrical release. Aside from that, the whole movie feels like it needs to take a moment or two to breath every now and again instead of packing so much in.

Tefral

Bacchus wrote: »

Turning up with a hellicarrier was too jarring as it was done in the theatrical release.

That is taken care of in Agents of Shield the TV Series, I recommend you watch it if you havent.

Bacchus

cronin_j wrote: »

That is taken care of in Agents of Shield the TV Series, I recommend you watch it if you havent.

Well that's annoying. It was a real "WTF, well that's convenient" moment in the movie.

I watched the first 6 or so episodes of AoS but it was muck so I gave up. I heard it got better but the show lost me and I'm at my "TV show quota" at the moment. Can I skip ahead past a bunch of episodes to the point where it gets good or would I just be missing out on back story?

Loughc

Bacchus wrote: »

Well that's annoying. It was a real "WTF, well that's convenient" moment in the movie.

I watched the first 6 or so episodes of AoS but it was muck so I gave up. I heard it got better but the show lost me and I'm at my "TV show quota" at the moment. Can I skip ahead past a bunch of episodes to the point where it gets good or would I just be missing out on back story?

You don't miss much backstory as such but you miss any reason to care about the characters and what happens to them, the only way you get that rappor is by watching the series in full, it is a tough watch for the first ten episodes but it really does get better.

humanji

Bacchus wrote: »

Well that's annoying. It was a real "WTF, well that's convenient" moment in the movie.

I watched the first 6 or so episodes of AoS but it was muck so I gave up. I heard it got better but the show lost me and I'm at my "TV show quota" at the moment. Can I skip ahead past a bunch of episodes to the point where it gets good or would I just be missing out on back story?

You pretty much could. It's about episode 16 that it really comes into it's own. Although you may also want to watch episode 14 as that's when Bill Paxton turns up and he's awesome!

You can read through the episode guide on Wikipedia and that'll cover most things. The characters are fairly shallow to start with, so you won't be missing much.

Tefral

Bacchus wrote: »

Well that's annoying. It was a real "WTF, well that's convenient" moment in the movie.

I watched the first 6 or so episodes of AoS but it was muck so I gave up. I heard it got better but the show lost me and I'm at my "TV show quota" at the moment. Can I skip ahead past a bunch of episodes to the point where it gets good or would I just be missing out on back story?

Its a pile of crap until after episode 9, then it gets brilliant from ep 13 as it ties in with the events of CAP2 and the whole downfall of Shield. Its well worth watching. id stick out the episodes to be honest you kinda need em even if they are ****e.

pixelburp

cronin_j wrote: »

That is taken care of in Agents of Shield the TV Series, I recommend you watch it if you havent.

Tbh, that's all well and good but no movie should need a tie-in from another medium to explain an ostensibly wonky plot point; while character backstories or broader plot points shouldn't need explanation in a sequel (something else Avengers 2 was a little guilty of), the movie should stand on its own terms, and within its own internal universe, and not need a TV show to explain the convenient appearance of a helicarrier.

I've been slow to catch up on season 2 of Agents of SHIELD as the middle set of episodes have become baggy and reminiscent of season 1. It's an infuriatingly inconsistent show.

Tefral

pixelburp wrote: »

Tbh, that's all well and good but no movie should need a tie-in from another medium to explain an ostensibly wonky plot point; while character backstories or broader plot points shouldn't need explanation in a sequel (something else Avengers 2 was a little guilty of), the movie should stand on its own terms, and within its own internal universe, and not need a TV show to explain the convenient appearance of a helicarrier.

I've been slow to catch up on season 2 of Agents of SHIELD as the middle set of episodes have become baggy and reminiscent of season 1. It's an infuriatingly inconsistent show.

Well Marvel have made no secret that your buying into the whole realm, everything is interlinked.

For what its worth I agree with you to some extent, the film was obviously hacked to death and it does make it clunky.

Loughc

cronin_j wrote: »

Well Marvel have made no secret that your buying into the whole realm, everything is interlinked.

Exactly. Plus fans of Marvel comics know that during any large event it feeds in information for the other comicbook series, like Civil War, although the main arc was only 7 issues there were approx 100 comics crossed over in it.

They have applied the same business ethos to their MCU. And you can't blame them really. AOS is a 60min advertisement for the rest of the MCU each week.

pixelburp

cronin_j wrote: »

Well Marvel have made no secret that your buying into the whole realm, everything is interlinked.

For what its worth I agree with you to some extent, the film was obviously hacked to death and it does make it clunky.

I don't think the interlinking should extend to the point where plot details (albeit minor enough ones in the grand scheme of the film) only make sense if you watch an episode from a specific TV show, particularly given not everyone can/wants to watch Agents of SHIELD. I don't feel I should need to be 'all in' with Marvel's grand scheme just so that everything makes sense. Going 'oh well that's explained in the TV show' shouldn't even be necessary.

Tefral

pixelburp wrote: »

I don't think the interlinking should extend to the point where plot details (albeit minor enough ones in the grand scheme of the film) only make sense if you watch an episode from a specific TV show, particularly given not everyone can/wants to watch Agents of SHIELD. I don't feel I should need to be 'all in' with Marvel's grand scheme just so that everything makes sense. Going 'oh well that's explained in the TV show' shouldn't even be necessary.

Well you'll be the one that misses out then.

Thargor

So what happened with the helicarrier then for those of us who couldn't stand Agents of Shield? I thought it was destroyed?

SouthTippBass

Thargor wrote: »

So what happened with the helicarrier then for those of us who couldn't stand Agents of Shield? I thought it was destroyed?

Eh, I think they have a few of those lying around.

Tefral

Thargor wrote: »

So what happened with the helicarrier then for those of us who couldn't stand Agents of Shield? I thought it was destroyed?

Theta Protocol was a project created after the collapse of S.H.I.E.L.D., when Nick Fury and Director Phil Coulson learned that the vessel, albeit damaged, survived the war and Hydra's attempt to capture it. The idea was to secretly repair Helicarrier No. 64 so that it could be used in case of a world-threatening emergency. The Helicarrier was brought to the Theta Protocol Facility, run by Sam Koenig, where repair work began.

Coulson informed Melinda May that he was heading to London to recruit more former S.H.I.E.L.D. agents into their organisation, but in reality he met with Sam Koenig in the United States to discuss Theta Protocol. Koenig handed Coulson his new lanyard before overseeing the progress of Helicarrier No. 64's repair work.[1]

Keeping Secrets
As Coulson's team prepared for the trip to the Kree City, Coulson told Sam Koenig to report back to the Playground, stating that if things went south he would need Sam and his brother to enact the Theta Protocol, much to Koenig's dismay.[2]

According to Agents May and Simmons, Coulson did not tell them about the Protocol. The separate faction of S.H.I.E.L.D. led by Robert Gonzales saw this as prime example of Coulson keeping dangerous secrets, which they saw as the reason for S.H.I.E.L.D.'s original collapse.[3]

Ultron Crisis
Pre-Crisis
After being contacted by Maria Hill and debriefing her on the whereabouts of the Scepter, Coulson was asked if he was ready to activate Theta Protocol. He affirmed so, claiming it was time to bring in the Avengers.[4]


Helicarrier No. 64 in Sokovia
Theta Protocol was activated by Phil Coulson and Nick Fury, recommissioning Helicarrier No. 64 to support the Avengers in the battle against Ultron in Sokovia. The Helicarrier was tasked with evacuating the civillains remaining on the flying city landmass, using incorporated evacuation pods to do so. The Helicarrier also aided War Machine in preventing rogue Ultron Sentries from escaping the battle, shooting them down.

pixelburp

cronin_j wrote: »

Well you'll be the one that misses out then.

Missing on what, the explanation of a minor plot detail? Just making the point that it's a lazy excuse to point towards the TV show/novelisation/comicbook/audioplay to explain away some black hole in the narrative. But like I said, it's too minor to really get stoked about it, so we'll leave it at that.

pmasterson95

It is a lazy cop out to lumber points into a show that isn't very good in its own right. But because they want to make as much money as they can they do. The more people they can make watch every single thing they put out the better. With better thought put into things Marvel could do better with the movies. Considering the movies should be Marvels main concern they should make the movies stand independently and not have points lumped onto a average show just to make it profitable. Its cynical marketing but if people buy it job done and they are happy.

Tefral

pmasterson95 wrote: »

It is a lazy cop out to lumber points into a show that isn't very good in its own right. But because they want to make as much money as they can they do. The more people they can make watch every single thing they put out the better. With better thought put into things Marvel could do better with the movies. Considering the movies should be Marvels main concern they should make the movies stand independently and not have points lumped onto a average show just to make it profitable. Its cynical marketing but if people buy it job done and they are happy.

Well to some extent I agree with you and pixel burp on it. It is a money making machine, and since Disney own them its all about what they can return to the shareholders.