Yet another Irish athlete done over by a dirty cheat!

Pisco Sour

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/london-olympics/olympic-50km-walk-champion-alex-schwazer-tests-positive-for-doping/story-fnd2erhd-1226444411159

Defending Olympic champion is out of the games for failing a drug test. One less guy for Rob to worry about on Saturday, but this guy got a silver in Barca in 2010, when Rob came 4th! Sick!

Cork24

Who says he was doping in the last games?? And how is an Irish athlete done over when the race. Never started?

Our athlete could come 1st or come last. I can't understand how he was done over by a cheat, when clearly... It's policy to test every winner so in the 2010 games when this so called cheat won the 50km walk he would have being tested after the race and. Before the games started

Pisco Sour

Cork24 wrote: »

Who says he was doping in the last games?? And how is an Irish athlete done over when the race. Never started?

Our athlete could come 1st or come last. I can't understand how he was done over by a cheat, when clearly... It's policy to test every winner so in the 2010 games when this so called cheat won the 50km walk he would have being tested after the race and. Before the games started

Read my OP. This cheat came 2nd in Barca in the same race Rob came 4th, therefore denying him a medal. And dont give me that crap about him not doping in Beijing. Why would an Olympic Champion decide to dope after achieving the pinnacle of his/her sport! Blatantly on it all along and will come out with crap to try save face and keep his previous medals.

Pherekydes

Sure all walkers are cheats. :pac:

Aspiring

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Read my OP. This cheat came 2nd in Barca in the same race Rob came 4th, therefore denying him a medal. And dont give me that crap about him not doping in Beijing. Why would an Olympic Champion decide to dope after achieving the pinnacle of his/her sport! Blatantly on it all along and will come out with crap to try save face and keep his previous medals.

They would be under pressure to win it again and that would lead to them to dope I'm sure.

LacticAthlete

Moderators will surely be along to cut and snip this thread.

The thing is full of dopers, cant move for the buggers!!

M cebee

i don't see the point of this
-heaping opprobrium on athletes when they get busted

it's not like everyone that cheats get busted or anything

Pisco Sour

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Moderators will surely be along to cut and snip this thread.

Why? It's fact the guy doped. Articles all over the internet, breaking news everywhere. If this thread gets snipped then there is no hope for this forum!

To be fair now wev had our fair Share of alleged "drug cheats"

Pisco Sour

M cebee wrote: »

i don't see the point of this
-heaping opprobrium on athletes when they get busted

it's not like everyone that cheats get busted or anything

Because some of us have a zero tolerance towards cheats!

Harry Angstrom

Pisco Sour wrote: »

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/london-olympics/olympic-50km-walk-champion-alex-schwazer-tests-positive-for-doping/story-fnd2erhd-1226444411159

Defending Olympic champion is out of the games for failing a drug test. One less guy for Rob to worry about on Saturday, but this guy got a silver in Barca in 2010, when Rob came 4th! Sick!

Shouldn't this be in the Walking section??

By posting it in the Running section, I'd say you've pretty much disqualified yourself :pac:

MrCreosote

I'm with Pisco on this one.

Once you are a dope cheat, it puts a huge question mark over ALL your results. Just like the questions are there when dopers return from bans. You are the "dope cheat" for ever.

Like the dope cheat Ben Johnson.
Like the dope cheat Michelle Smith.
Like the dope cheat Linford Christie.
Like the dope cheat Marion Jones.

Once caught, that's your career and legacy ruined for ever.

Headshot

Schwazer Should of gone to the Olympics but he got high
he could of won the race but he got high
but now he's sitting at home and I know why because he got high (because he got high)

average_runner

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Read my OP. This cheat came 2nd in Barca in the same race Rob came 4th, therefore denying him a medal. And dont give me that crap about him not doping in Beijing. Why would an Olympic Champion decide to dope after achieving the pinnacle of his/her sport! Blatantly on it all along and will come out with crap to try save face and keep his previous medals.

Wont he get strip of his olympic medal in beijing and the world championships?

Pherekydes

average_runner wrote: »

Wont he get strip of his olympic medal in beijing and the world championships?

Well his test is from this year so, unless he admits to cheating back then, no.

Pisco Sour

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Read my OP. This cheat came 2nd in Barca in the same race Rob came 4th, therefore denying him a medal. And dont give me that crap about him not doping in Beijing. Why would an Olympic Champion decide to dope after achieving the pinnacle of his/her sport! Blatantly on it all along and will come out with crap to try save face and keep his previous medals.

siver is not the pinnacle of a sport the fact of the matter is most olympians are on drugs iv herd stories of swimmers using them and having blood transfusions so there blood is clean for a test. look at some of the female athletes in particular. for example michelle smith had shoulders broader than most men women dont have that naturally.

i understand where your coming from with your "zero tolerance" policy but welcome to the real world its not always fair

average_runner

Pherekydes wrote: »

Well his test is from this year so, unless he admits to cheating back then, no.

Ok, thought if you tested within 8 years of the olympics you lose your medals. Must of picked it up the wrong way.

ThisRegard

I'm sure Brian O'Connor is starting to get a big I told you so smirk on his face at this rate.

Pherekydes

Dana Damaged Surface wrote: »

siver is not the pinnacle of a sport

He's the reigning Olympic 50k walk champion. The silver alluded to is from the Europeans in Barcelona two years ago.

If you think swimming doesn't give girls big shoulders I suggest you take a trip to your local swimming club and take a look.

racso1975

average_runner wrote: »

Ok, thought if you tested within 8 years of the olympics you lose your medals. Must of picked it up the wrong way.

I think your right and that it is a new thing. So if new drugs at the moment that go under the radar can be detected in say 6 years they will retest the ones from this Olympics

RayCun

They take the samples from competitors and hold on to them for eight years, so those samples can be tested again.
If those samples are found to contain PEDs, the athlete is punished by having their title stripped.

But if a sample given today contains PEDs, that doesn't change the sample given four years ago.

There's a case for retroactive punishment of dopers - dope at any time and all your medals are stripped, even those won when your samples were clean - but it would be a major change to current policy.

plodder

The "man on the street" is rightly going to be suspicious of a drug cheat's past achievements. But, I think it would be legally very difficult to bring in retrospective punishments (ie applying before the failed sample was taken). Much better to look forward and deal with the anomaly where cheats are banned for only two years imo.

walshb

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Because some of us have a zero tolerance towards cheats!

There is zero tolerance and there is just spurious allegations. You are making spurious allegations concerning Beijing!

LacticAthlete

MrCreosote wrote: »

I'm with Pisco on this one.

Once you are a dope cheat, it puts a huge question mark over ALL your results. Just like the questions are there when dopers return from bans. You are the "dope cheat" for ever.

Like the dope cheat Ben Johnson.
Like the dope cheat Michelle Smith.
Like the dope cheat Linford Christie.
Like the dope cheat Marion Jones.

Once caught, that's your career and legacy ruined for ever.

Just like fellow drug cheats

Sandra Perković
Yohan Blake
Darya Pishchalnikova

all of whom barely got a mention as druggies on any tv coverage!

Pherekydes

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Just like fellow drug cheats

Sandra Perković
Yohan Blake
Darya Pishchalnikova

all of whom barely got a mention as druggies on any tv coverage!

Don't know about the Russian, but Blake and Perkovic are not cheats.

james1992

There has been a lot of talk about Nevin Yanit and refusing to take a drugs test from turkey ioc....
<Snip>

heres hoping derval dosent lose out to her tonight. But i suspect she will

Pherekydes

james1992 wrote: »

heres hoping derval dosent lose out to her tonight. But i suspect she will

They're not in the same semi.

martyeds

MrCreosote wrote: »

I'm with Pisco on this one.

Once you are a dope cheat, it puts a huge question mark over ALL your results. Just like the questions are there when dopers return from bans. You are the "dope cheat" for ever.

Like the dope cheat Ben Johnson.
Like the dope cheat Michelle Smith.
Like the dope cheat Linford Christie.
Like the dope cheat Marion Jones.

Once caught, that's your career and legacy ruined for ever.

Irish swimmer Michelle Smith is no cheat.......but don't get me started on that Belgian Michelle De Bruin.:D

Pherekydes

martyeds wrote: »

Irish swimmer Michelle Smith is no cheat.......but don't get me started on that Belgian Michelle De Bruin.:D

Belgian? Her hubby is Dutch.

ecoli

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Just like fellow drug cheats

Sandra Perković
Yohan Blake
Darya Pishchalnikova

all of whom barely got a mention as druggies on any tv coverage!

For the record Yohan Blake didnt fail a drug test as in 2009 Methylhexaneamine was not on the banned list this has since been added and is only deemed an offence if found in competition testing (since last year).

The reason he recieved a ban was because JADCO appealed their own decision on the grounds it had similar attributes to something on the banned list

(Perkovic also failed for this one but it was last year so as such the ban is validated)

A bit of background on this is found here:

http://drugfreesportrec.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/methylhexaneamine-1-3-dimethylamylamine.html

Darya Pishchalnikova is another matter though and i think the main reason she isn't held in the same regards as the likes of the sprinters is simply people dont have as much of a knowledge about the event. Definitely should have been given a life ban

martyeds

Pherekydes wrote: »

Belgian? Her hubby is Dutch.

Darn....what was i thinking!!:(

LacticAthlete

Blake still received a 3 month suspension in relation to drugs. Casts a cloud for sure anyway.

Perkovic is certainly at it, longest throws in years and at 21/22 already has a ban under her belt.

ss43

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Just like fellow drug cheats

Yohan Blake

all of whom barely got a mention as druggies on any tv coverage!

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Blake still received a 3 month suspension in relation to drugs. Casts a cloud for sure anyway.

Yeah, imagine drinking an energy drink that contained a substance that wasn't yet banned. He must have no morals.

Pherekydes

LacticAthlete wrote: »

Perkovic is certainly at it, longest throws in years and at 21/22 already has a ban under her belt.

The ban was for the same stuff as Blake. Longest throws in years? Is that some sort of proof?

CoachDudie

At nearly all the T&F events at this Olympics there has been someone competing who was previosly banned for drug use or failing to attend tests.
When you think how many are competeing that haven't been caught yet (or may never be caught) then it really puts athletics in a bad light.

Nermal

Pherekydes wrote: »

Sure all walkers are cheats. :pac:

Indeed. Time to prune the Olympics. I'm torn between 'race walking', dressage and synchronised swimming.

Pherekydes

Nermal wrote: »

Indeed. Time to prune the Olympics. I'm torn between 'race walking', dressage and synchronised swimming.

Torn? Why not them all? Plus a few others, like the under 23 soccer tournament (with Ryan Giggs, amongst others :rolleyes:), the 750 pt tennis tournament, and the golf.

Cork24

Pisco Sour wrote: »

Read my OP. This cheat came 2nd in Barca in the same race Rob came 4th, therefore denying him a medal. And dont give me that crap about him not doping in Beijing. Why would an Olympic Champion decide to dope after achieving the pinnacle of his/her sport! Blatantly on it all along and will come out with crap to try save face and keep his previous medals.

As i said, This "CHEAT" was drug tested in Barca all the 6 or so are tested,

Hmm why would a person use EPO :rolleyes::rolleyes: why oh why Hmm i could think of a reason Age over Speed ? no as you get older you start to lose Speed ? No,, So you take EPO to help you keep the speed up while aging..

They cant take his Medals off him he didnt fail a drug test over the years! so your Rant is pointless

myflipflops

Pherekydes wrote: »

Torn? Why not them all? Plus a few others, like the under 23 soccer tournament (with Ryan Giggs, amongst others :rolleyes:), the 750 pt tennis tournament, and the golf.

The addition of golf is one of the last steps into the world of 'f*ck the sport, how much money can we make?'

The final step will be to let T20 cricket in to get the full Indian corporate market involved.

hot to trot

Fab to see the race walking video on the thread.

But as someone who knows very little about race walking .... are they not supposed to have one foot on the ground at all times?

LeoB

Didnt know Michelle Smith was a drug cheat or failed a test.

pc11

LeoB wrote: »

Didnt know Michelle Smith was a drug cheat or failed a test.

Your not knowing about it doesn't change the fact she tested positive for Androstenedione 3 times.

MrCreosote

LeoB wrote: »

Didnt know Michelle Smith was a drug cheat or failed a test.

Tampering with a sample is failing a test as well. Worse than testing positive. That makes her a cheat.

pc11

MrCreosote wrote: »

Tampering with a sample is failing a test as well. Worse than testing positive. That makes her a cheat.

Indeed. Not to mention being warned for not being available for testing.

LeoB

MrCreosote wrote: »

Tampering with a sample is failing a test as well. Worse than testing positive. That makes her a cheat.

pc11 wrote: »

Indeed. Not to mention being warned for not being available for testing.

pc11 wrote: »

Your not knowing about it doesn't change the fact she tested positive for Androstenedione 3 times.

Just to clarify Im not involved in Athletics (and have zero time for cheats and anyone found cheating through a positive test should never be let compete at Olympics or International level again) but love watching it like most Irish people do especially during the Olympics.

However I recently overheard a conversation between 2 very high profile people and both felt Michelle Smith was hard done by and set-up at the time by some people who begrudged her. One of them pointed out some athletes dont appear to be tested at all. I dont know but was suprised to hear that.
Is it common? 1) for some to be seldom if ever tested or compulsory
2) common for athletes to take banned substances?
3) Where does it start

On the op I have to agree. We dont know when this person started cheating so should he not be stripped of his titles and medals

horsebox1977

LeoB wrote: »

Just to clarify Im not involved in Athletics (and have zero time for cheats and anyone found cheating through a positive test should never be let compete at Olympics or International level again) but love watching it like most Irish people do especially during the Olympics.

However I recently overheard a conversation between 2 very high profile people and both felt Michelle Smith was hard done by and set-up at the time by some people who begrudged her. One of them pointed out some athletes dont appear to be tested at all. I dont know but was suprised to hear that.
Is it common? 1) for some to be seldom if ever tested or compulsory
2) common for athletes to take banned substances?
3) Where does it start

On the op I have to agree. We dont know when this person started cheating so should he not be stripped of his titles and medals

Funnily enough I heard something similar at the time but passed it off.

pc11

To accuse the sporting establishment of a massive conspiracy to frame a top athlete is monstrous. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Such evidence is not available.

It is far, far more likely that the simpler explanation is true. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if it was any other athlete from another country. This is a discussion about sport, not crazy conspiracy theories.

LeoB

pc11 wrote: »

To accuse the sporting establishment of a massive conspiracy to frame a top athlete is monstrous. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. Such evidence is not available..

I didnt accuse anyone of conspiring to nail Michelle Smith, infact I think I clarified what I thought of cheats in my post.

pc11 wrote: »

It is far, far more likely that the simpler explanation is true. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if it was any other athlete from another country. This is a discussion about sport, not crazy conspiracy theories.

Its nearly always more likely the simpler version is true. NEARLY ALWAYS and this is not a conspiricy theory its someone relaying what they have heard on more than one occasion.

Also we are having this discussion because someone heres cares about an Irish Athlete being possibly denied a medal, read the thread title. I would agree with the OP's sentiments. And finally to remind you of the talk here in Ireland at the top athletes who have failed drugs tests in the past have been rightly dragged through the muck.

the_real_lamp

LeoB wrote: »

Just to clarify Im not involved in Athletics (and have zero time for cheats and anyone found cheating through a positive test should never be let compete at Olympics or International level again) but love watching it like most Irish people do especially during the Olympics.

However I recently overheard a conversation between 2 very high profile people and both felt Michelle Smith was hard done by and set-up at the time by some people who begrudged her. One of them pointed out some athletes dont appear to be tested at all. I dont know but was suprised to hear that.
Is it common? 1) for some to be seldom if ever tested or compulsory
2) common for athletes to take banned substances?
3) Where does it start

On the op I have to agree. We dont know when this person started cheating so should he not be stripped of his titles and medals

I think it is more a case that the authorities targeted Michelle Smith, rather than set her up. She was mediocre international swimmer who in the space of less than 2 years became world class at an age where swimmers tend not to see big improvements. The whole swimming world was suspicious. The US coach who accused Ye Shewin (wrongly imho) even drew paralells to Smith in 1996.

Similar suitation with Kenteris and Thanou in my opinion. No one set up them, just wanted to catch them.

Head The Wall

LeoB wrote: »

However I recently overheard a conversation between 2 very high profile people and both felt Michelle Smith was hard done by and set-up at the time by some people who begrudged her. One of them pointed out some athletes dont appear to be tested at all. I dont know but was suprised to hear that.
Is it common? 1) for some to be seldom if ever tested or compulsory
2) common for athletes to take banned substances?
3) Where does it start

Just because other athletes may be doping and are not getting tested does still not make it okay to do it.

How exactly was she set up, did someone make her pee whiskey? That sounds to me like something she would do of her own volition, so she's guilty in my eyes

walshb

Did the testers sign off on Michelle's sample? I thought they did. They signed off that all was ok with the taking of the sample. Only later, and many miles away was there a whiskey element discovered. Now, who put the whisky in the jar? The two testers were a husband and wife team, weren't they? And, wasn't there issues with one of them being involved with rigging swim times? The authorities wre certainly hell bent on testing Michelle? I just find it rather odd that in 1998 Michelle would be caught out.