Help to dev an app..

jamesbil

Hi all, I have an idea for an app that it calculator based, trouble is I have no experience what so ever!
I have looked at a few of the app building sites but none can do a calculator.
Any one know where to go?

Or even better, any one want to develop it for me and share in the millions made:D???

I have some sketches done of how it should look and what it should do.

Thanks
James

Odaise Gaelach

What are you developing your app for?

jamesbil

dedicated app for carpenters, will calculate area volume, price etc.
there are a few similar out there but none will do all functions.

banquo

That's actually a really good idea for an iPhone app, best of luck!

kegzmc

Not a bad idea. Which os do you plan to target?

jamesbil

Sorry iphone heads, Android initially!!
Tho I guess someone would be able to make an i one?

Any of you want to help me with it?

Kenny Logins

Don't give away your idea!

jamesbil

I wouldnt expect to make a killing on it, a few quid would be nice but.

If anyone could build it, I could promote it....

srsly78

Ideas are cheap, programmers are expensive.

Chloris

You don't have to be a programmer to develop an app. There are easy toolkits online like Andromo where you can build them easy enough. To begin with, simplify your vision and see if you can use the tools available to start your App off. If not, create a more basic version of it using whatever is at your disposal. As you develop more Apps, the interface of the site you use will become easier to negotiate and you'll be able to develop more advanced versions of them.

I'd offer to help but I'm developing two of my own at the moment. Getting the resources I need has been the hardest part yet!

jamesbil

I have looked at a few of the app building sites but none can do a calculator.

Also andromo is $25 per month!

Kavrocks

Am I right in saying you expect somebody to take your sketches and idea to a fully fledged working app for free?

jamesbil

Nope!

The idea would be to run it by someone who knows more than me to see if its a good idea and then to come to some arrangement.

If its not going to be that sell-able, then maybe someone would like to do it for the experience or to gain a following by putting it up for free.

I would think its a pretty simple app to build for the right person.

The Corinthian

jamesbil wrote: »

Hi all, I have an idea for an app that it calculator based, trouble is I have no experience what so ever!

jamesbil wrote: »

I would think its a pretty simple app to build for the right person.

So you have no experience, but you are able nonetheless to estimate how much work it would entail? I suggest you leave that to someone who knows to how and what to estimate.

The idea would be to run it by someone who knows more than me to see if its a good idea and then to come to some arrangement.

If its not going to be that sell-able, then maybe someone would like to do it for the experience or to gain a following by putting it up for free.

Unless your app is a runaway hit (which is very unlikely), it won't make that much money and even if it did, I can't see any developer (with an IQ over room temperature) agreeing to even a 50-50 deal with someone who has brought nothing to the table except an 'idea', which by your own admission is not even that original.

To me, someone who has only an 'idea' and wants you to 'earn' sweat equity on it, is someone who wants commitment from others that he or she has not put in themselves - if they did, they'd have more than just an 'idea'.

As to the 'portfolio' argument, entry into the app market is easy and a developer can easily develop a portfolio on their own - you don't even bring a company to reference, which might at least have been of some use to their CV.

Realistically, unless some idiot is willing to help you out, I suggest one of the following, should you wish to bring your idea to fruition:

• Learn to develop and market (oft forgotten essential skill) an app yourself.
• Do some proper market research and/or raise capital, so that you have more to bring to the table than an 'idea', and then come back to look for a developer.

Kenny Logins

srsly78 wrote: »

Ideas are cheap, programmers are expensive.

The idea is all he has. Give that away and he's left with nothing.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

So you have no experience, but you are able nonetheless to estimate how much work it would entail? I suggest you leave that to someone who knows to how and what to estimate.

Unless your app is a runaway hit (which is very unlikely), it won't make that much money and even if it did, I can't see any developer (with an IQ over room temperature) agreeing to even a 50-50 deal with someone who has brought nothing to the table except an 'idea', which by your own admission is not even that original.

To me, someone who has only an 'idea' and wants you to 'earn' sweat equity on it, is someone who wants commitment from others that he or she has not put in themselves - if they did, they'd have more than just an 'idea'.

As to the 'portfolio' argument, entry into the app market is easy and a developer can easily develop a portfolio on their own - you don't even bring a company to reference, which might at least have been of some use to their CV.

Realistically, unless some idiot is willing to help you out, I suggest one of the following, should you wish to bring your idea to fruition:

• Learn to develop and market (oft forgotten essential skill) an app yourself.
• Do some proper market research and/or raise capital, so that you have more to bring to the table than an 'idea', and then come back to look for a developer.

Rather harsh comment for somebody who wants to try something,apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative.
I used to develop apps for symbian platform and if i was still doing it today id glady help him out

I may yet even venture into the android and IOS,At the moment im too busy with current work im doing.

The Corinthian

jimmynokia wrote: »

Rather harsh comment for somebody who wants to try something,apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative.

Firstly, do you know what the average revenues for either iOS/Android indie apps are, before you make any claim as to how lucrative they are?

Secondly, he does need some harsh comments, because at the moment he's in love with his idea and I can say from experience that in that situation a bucket of cold water is often the best way forward for him.

I used to develop apps for symbian platform and if i was still doing it today id glady help him out

Well there's a lucrative market...

Ricky91t

The Corinthian wrote: »

Firstly, do you know what the average revenues for either iOS/Android indie apps are, before you make any claim as to how lucrative they are?

Secondly, he does need some harsh comments, because at the moment he's in love with his idea and I can say from experience that in that situation a bucket of cold water is often the best way forward for him.

Well there's a lucrative market...

I could be wrong but the majority of people never plan on making a killing with their apps, they just develop them for the enjoyment/need for one.

Plus a full time job in any mobile software dev position pay very well so they really don't need to make any kind of money off the app, it's just a bonus.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

jimmynokia wrote: »

Rather harsh comment for somebody who wants to try something,apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative.

Firstly, do you know what the average revenues for either iOS/Android indie apps are, before you make any claim as to how lucrative they are?

Secondly, he does need some harsh comments, because at the moment he's in love with his idea and I can say from experience that in that situation a bucket of cold water is often the best way forward for him.

I used to develop apps for symbian platform and if i was still doing it today id glady help him out

Well there's a lucrative market...

Picking at the finer details now are we.
Yeah like I said used to develope for symbian, yeah its dead and some apps commanding a salary.
One app for example is gravity 10euro the creator is called janole and making a wage weekly from it.
And again I said I may venture into android and IOS, which where the money is now.

ChRoMe

Kenny Logins wrote: »

The idea is all he has. Give that away and he's left with nothing.

If he only has an idea, he is already left with nothing...

The Corinthian

Ricky91t wrote: »

I could be wrong but the majority of people never plan on making a killing with their apps, they just develop them for the enjoyment/need for one.

Plus a full time job in any mobile software dev position pay very well so they really don't need to make any kind of money off the app, it's just a bonus.

Completely agree with you. Profit aside, app development is as often as not about enjoyment, portfolio building and because the app does something you personally want. If it's a hit, then that's (very thick) icing on the cake for most of us.

My point is that the app markets are full of sometimes well-written indie apps that no one will ever hear of and actually so making any substantial money out of them can be very, very difficult. This is not to say that it cannot, only that presuming that app development is lucrative ignores the realities of the market.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Picking at the finer details now are we.

No, just doing a reality check; you claimed that the app market is very lucrative; and for some it is, but that's like saying that playing the lotto is lucrative because some people win it.

Ultimately, unless you have some data to back up or at least qualify your claims, you're really just talking out of your hat.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ricky91t wrote: »

I could be wrong but the majority of people never plan on making a killing with their apps, they just develop them for the enjoyment/need for one.

Plus a full time job in any mobile software dev position pay very well so they really don't need to make any kind of money off the app, it's just a bonus.

Completely agree with you. Profit aside, app development is as often as not about enjoyment, portfolio building and because the app does something you personally want. If it's a hit, then that's (very thick) icing on the cake for most of us.

My point is that the app markets are full of sometimes well-written indie apps that no one will ever hear of and actually so making any substantial money out of them can be very, very difficult. This is not to say that it cannot, only that presuming that app development is lucrative ignores the realities of the market.

jimmynokia wrote: »

Picking at the finer details now are we.

No, just doing a reality check; you claimed that the app market is very lucrative; and for some it is, but that's like saying that playing the lotto is lucrative because some people win it.

Ultimately, unless you have some data to back up or at least qualify your claims, you're really just talking out of your hat.

your talking out of your hat. And misunderstood the whole argument.
I said it's lucrative for some not everyone.I've given an example of one you have given nothing.

The point I was making is your giving the OP a harsh time with his idea.
Unless you actually developed and app and work in the sector which I do I suggest keeping harsh comments or reality checks as you say at bay.
There is nothing wrong with having suggestions or looking for help.
The reality here is people making rational statements that are pointless and another clean example of why things fail in this country .ie lack of support.

The Corinthian

jimmynokia wrote: »

I said it's lucrative for some not everyone.

No you did not. You made a pretty generalized statement: "apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative" - can you see any caveats that might suggest 'not everyone'?

The point I was making is your giving the OP a harsh time with his idea.
Unless you actually developed and app and work in the sector which I do I suggest keeping harsh comments or reality checks as you say at bay.

Yes and yes. And I said why my approach was harsh - sometimes you need a bucket of cold water in these situations; and I speak from experience.

The reality here is people making rational statements that are pointless and another clean example of why things fail in this country .ie lack of support.

And I gave him very practical advice at the end - significantly more practical than anything you said to him.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

No you did not. You made a pretty generalized statement: "apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative" - can you see any caveats that might suggest 'not everyone'?

Yes and yes. And I said why my approach was harsh - sometimes you need a bucket of cold water in these situations; and I speak from experience.

And I gave him very practical advice at the end - significantly more practical than anything you said to him.

Ive actually said nothing nor suggested anything so thats utter bull.
I was stating that you where rather harsh you could of had a more subtle approach rather than jump down his neck.

I really look forward to seen some of your apps in the near future..

jamesbil

Oops! Didnt mean to start an argument...

I will start again;

I have an idea for an app,
I have no experience in developing,
I dont know where to go to learn.

Can someone tell me if learning would be feasible in my situation.

Or does some one want to develop it with my help/idea/input?
I dont give a damn if I dont make a cent on it! (tho extra cash no matter how little is always good). I just saw a need and thought it might be a good idea.

Thanks to everyone who gave constructive comments and support.

jimmynokia

jamesbil wrote: »

Oops! Didnt mean to start an argument...

I will start again;

I have an idea for an app,
I have no experience in developing,
I dont know where to go to learn.

Can someone tell me if learning would be feasible in my situation.

Or does some one want to develop it with my help/idea/input?
I dont give a damn if I dont make a cent on it! (tho extra cash no matter how little is always good). I just saw a need and thought it might be a good idea.

Thanks to everyone who gave constructive comments and support.

There is no argument just somebody who has a opinionated view on this idea you have which is great,id love to help but im finished with developement for now and currently working on beta testing with WP and android.

I can pass this thread on to some developers i know and worked with and see if they can do anything..

The Corinthian

jimmynokia wrote: »

Ive actually said nothing nor suggested anything so thats utter bull.

There's a record of what you wrote, which I quoted - so I don't really know how you can try and spin it as something else, with a straight face.

jamesbil wrote: »

Can someone tell me if learning would be feasible in my situation.

If you have little or no development experience, then learning is likely to be too steep a curve.

Development platforms do exist that can take some of the pain away, but in most cases they will still require development skills and experience and/or may also limit what you can develop with them.

What, if any, development skills do you have, is the pertinent question?

Or does some one want to develop it with my help/idea/input?

As to someone helping you out, I doubt it at present. All you bring is an 'idea' and more than one poster has responded that they're cheap as chips - in short you bring nothing much to the table.

That Andromo costing $25 p.m. turned you off didn't exactly demonstrate that you've much commitment in your own idea either, while on the other hand you're looking for someone to potentially spend hundreds of hours developing it for you, which is a demonstrable commitment.

As such, if you don't want or cannot develop the app yourself, your best bet is to first do market research and perhaps also raise some capital, then look for someone as you'll have a much stronger proposition then.

AhrSkidar

jamesbil wrote: »

Oops! Didnt mean to start an argument...

I will start again;

I have an idea for an app,
I have no experience in developing,
I dont know where to go to learn.

Can someone tell me if learning would be feasible in my situation.

Or does some one want to develop it with my help/idea/input?
I dont give a damn if I dont make a cent on it! (tho extra cash no matter how little is always good). I just saw a need and thought it might be a good idea.

Thanks to everyone who gave constructive comments and support.

Do you mind me asking why, given that you're talking in such general terms here, you said earlier that it was going to be an Android only app initially?

I'm coming from the iPhone dev side of things, and though there's absolutely no pot of gold in it I do think it has a more robust paid app market.

Just curious.

jamesbil

Thanks for that, when I looked at andromo, it looked like it wasnt possible to do a calculator with their system (I could be wrong), also 25 pm is a lot if it turns out its all way over my head.

i have had a couple of p/m's of offer to help, one from another forum and the person actually sent me a workable demo in a matter of hours! Turned out there were a few things he couldnt do and didnt have time due to a new commitment, so he put it on the long finger. (we had no agreement btw,)

I know ideas are cheap, but without them nothing would get developed.

jamesbil

AhrSkidar wrote: »

Do you mind me asking why, given that you're talking in such general terms here, you said earlier that it was going to be an Android only app initially?

I'm coming from the iPhone dev side of things, and though there's absolutely no pot of gold in it I do think it has a more robust paid app market.

Just curious.

Well only cos I am an android user. I guess if there was a need/opening, it could be converted/developed for iphone users.

Again, I have no experience in developing, just looking for advice and pointers. I dont expect to make money.

ChRoMe

The Corinthian wrote: »

Ultimately, unless you have some data to back up or at least qualify your claims, you're really just talking out of your hat.

App Store has paid out over 3 billion to developers in the last two years. Thats worth chewing on?

The Corinthian

ChRoMe wrote: »

App Store has paid out over 3 billion to developers in the last two years. Thats worth chewing on?

And 80% of paid apps on the appstore have been downloaded less than 100 times and only 2% have been downloaded more than 500,000 times.

I suggest you chew on that too.

jimmynokia

The Corinthian wrote: »

ChRoMe wrote: »

App Store has paid out over 3 billion to developers in the last two years. Thats worth chewing on?

And 80% of paid apps on the appstore have been downloaded less than 100 times and only 2% have been downloaded more than 500,000 times.

I suggest you chew on that too.

Nothing to chew on tbh the 3 billion says it all plus that's only IOS..

The Corinthian

jimmynokia wrote: »

Nothing to chew on tbh the 3 billion says it all plus that's only IOS..

Deep breath...

I think some people are missing the point here. Of course the apps market is potentially very lucrative to anyone who enters it, some indie developers make a nice living from it and some companies have genuinely made millions, but the key word is 'potentially'.

To simply suggest to someone who is clearly not in the industry that "apps are the way forward today and quite lucrative" or somehow publishing an app entitles you to a share of that $3 billion payout is akin to saying "if you're not in, you can't win", which is both hugely naive and poor advice to the OP.

Publishing an app, even a good app, is not enough. Most apps in reality don't even make enough money to pay for the cost of publishing them, let alone make any decent profit. And any of the top earners on either the iOS or Android markets spend silly money in ongoing marketing to stay in that slot, and even indie developers who do make a living from their apps will spend as much time, if not more, promoting their apps as developing them.

So not letting the OP know this and instead feeding him with this simplistic 'gold rush' propaganda is almost certain to lead to disappointment - unless he's lucky and his app rises to the top without effort, as sometimes happens. But then again, he can buy a Lotto ticket and win the jackpot too, if that's your logic.

Dean_Mc

This thread is mental...

If you want proper help from a software developer who can actually develop your app against x,y,z framework expect to pay about 15 - 20 euro an hour for the privilege. Honestly this carry on of "I'll handle the big picture you just do the minor dev work" needs to stop, people need to understand that software development is a highly complex process and we are paid good wages for this skill. The quote above is cheap compared to my actual salary...

As for this good idea, it's not a good idea, it's a flicker of a thought you have, to make the idea work here is what I would need to know.

01 : What platforms are we targeting.
02 : What do you want the app to look like.
03 : Give me the feature list.
04 : Give me the interaction guide for each feature on the list.
05 : Where do I find the calculation rules for each feature.
06 : What is your go to market strategy.
07 : Who is paying for the Artwork and Dev account?
08 : Who is managing bug / feature list and how?
09 : Are we saving calculations? How? Where ?
10 : Do you have any branding in mind, name, slogan, colour scheme?
11 : If yes to 10 were are these assets coming from?
12 : Who is managing go to market and marketing in general?
13 : What is the long term viability of an app like this, how much research have you done into ROI?
14 : How do we handle knock off's and piracy?

and these are just a few off the top of my head. The best apps take months and months of intensive work with people who are experts in the subject they are working with. What you think you have and what you will end up with are two different things...

jimmynokia.... You need to go look at the cold hard facts, very few app developers make enough to survive on, most take up other paying work just to get buy. You are talking about a flooded market with a once per app for life payment... The money is not there to be farting around... Only the best make it and of them most are game developers...

The Corinthian

Dean_Mc wrote: »

If you want proper help from a software developer who can actually develop your app against x,y,z framework expect to pay about 15 - 20 euro an hour for the privilege.

I presume you're talking about outsourcing to Pakistan or India here?

Unless there are hordes of developers sitting on street corners in Dublin with cardboard signs saying "will code for food", I very much doubt that any professional developer in Ireland would charge that little.

Dean_Mc

The Corinthian wrote: »

I presume you're talking about outsourcing to Pakistan or India here?

Unless there are hordes of developers sitting on street corners in Dublin with cardboard signs saying "will code for food", I very much doubt that any professional developer in Ireland would charge that little.

Yes, I meant to convey that even at that price you would be getting your work done very cheap. But this is the lowest per hour charge I have ever seen for serious offers based on about 80 hours work with all graphical assets provided and to be honest I bet most are looking at that price in disgust... Cheek of us, sure we only sit typing all day....

The Corinthian

Dean_Mc wrote: »

Yes, I meant to convey that even at that price you would be getting your work done very cheap. But this is the lowest per hour charge I have ever seen for serious offers based on about 80 hours work with all graphical assets provided and to be honest I bet most are looking at that price in disgust... Cheek of us, sure we only sit typing all day....

Still, even at a discounted rate, it's pretty low for western Europe. I think the lowest I ever went was about €35 p.hr., but I was also getting equity with that.

I deal with a lot of start-ups. They're fun to work with when they have a clue, which means that for every 10 would-be entrepreneurs with an 'idea', only one or two are worth a second conversation.

So, I wouldn't get too upset about it. Ultimately it's their time they're wasting, not yours.

Dean_Mc

The Corinthian wrote: »

Still, even at a discounted rate, it's pretty low for western Europe. I think the lowest I ever went was about €35 p.hr., but I was also getting equity with that.

I deal with a lot of start-ups. They're fun to work with when they have a clue, which means that for every 10 would-be entrepreneurs with an 'idea', only one or two are worth a second conversation.

So, I wouldn't get too upset about it. Ultimately it's their time they're wasting, not yours.

Agreed, Interestingly I am also open to the right idea too. I have come across people who in their own right are experts and have worked solely for equity but it was an exception rather than the norm and this lady knew her stuff, it wasn't as much an idea as a crystal clear brain dump that I could build an app around.

mark renton

This thread should be renamed "How to pi$$ off a programmer by telling him you have an idea"

Tiddlypeeps

You guys are being incredibly harsh.

I do find it annoying when I am asked to work on an idea for only equity by somebody who has put no more work into the idea than just coming up with a weak idea.

The OP my not have given away everything he has to bring to the table. He might be a carpenter and therefore have a deep understanding of the need the app is addressing. If he is then he could also be a respected authority in his field and due to that could have a lot of sway in recommending tools to others in his field making the marketing effort a lot easier. That sort of knowledge and/or exposure is expensive and valuable.

He might not be any of those things, but jumping down his throat assuming he is just a nobody with a weak unthought out idea without even asking is incredibly arrogant. All he seemed to be asking for is a discussion with anybody who might be interested in working for free on the right idea, if that is not you then you have no reason to take part in the discussion.

Niche speciality apps like this can be quite lucrative they don't rely on charts or rankings to gain downloads. Unlike games you can charge a lot more than 0.99c for them and you can even use a saas model (charge a monthly fee instead of a once off payment). If it's designed well and their is a market for it then word of mouth can be the only marketing tool you need.

jimmynokia

Agreed it's sad to see there is some numpties slamming the op.

The Corinthian

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I do find it annoying when I am asked to work on an idea for only equity by somebody who has put no more work into the idea than just coming up with a weak idea.

I don't think anyone suggested it was a weak idea, some even went so far as to suggest it might be a good one. However, the OP did fully admit that this is all they have and that they didn't even expect to make any money out of it.

If this is the case, the best they can presently hope for is that someone come along who will build it, either for fun or because they can monetize it, and if the latter the best the OP can expect realistically is a small minority stake in it. If so they really should say they're happy with this and some developers may well come forward to hear him out privately.

It's actually really important to 'jump down the throat' of ideas; as Dean_Mc pointed out, "cold hard facts" are what matters in the end. If no one does, then the person with the idea could well end up chasing it fruitlessly for months or years until finally, after numerous 'business partners', they give up the ghost and realize that they just waisted a lot of time, effort, money and lost opportunities on something that someone could have told them was a non-runner at the start.

Or the process of ruthlessly reviewing an idea can result in new perspectives and save considerable time where otherwise you might be going down dead ends before finding the business model that works. Having worked with start-ups for twenty years, I can tell you that almost none end up doing what they originally intended to do.

Instead we got this 'gold rush' nonsense about how 'lucrative' the mobile space is. If you disagree, of course, you're welcome to go off and build it for him.

Dean_Mc

I concur,

I am a generally nice guy and will always offer help and support to people who are just getting started, I think the more people in Ireland working on tech, the better. Having said that, software is not built on idea's, it is built on ruthless planning and more importantly, cutting. Any successful piece of software is a complex undertaking that involves more than a quick brainstorm. I've been to meetings that had to be broken up in to weeks because we needed to nail down specifics of just one feature.

What is the point in sugar coating it? If I was to tell the OP how great it was that they had an idea and build up the fact that they bring something marketable to the table they could get shafted down the road by someone. The fact of the matter is if the person was a master in their chosen area they don't have an idea, they have a plan, and are able to work with you as a consultant, there is a marked difference between the former and the latter.

Also, you have to understand, there is a group of people out their that genuinely believe that they can pay people minimum sums to realise their idea's and rake it in, I certainly wont help add to that group...


Oh, and if you think we are bad, ask an artist to work on some assets for your game / business / site for free or shares... There be dragons...