Herald Says "best fans in the world" a myth * Mod Note #53 *

born2bwild

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Bohemians were hammered by an Icelandic second tier team. If a second division Iceland team can beat an LOI team, then obviously they should be able to beat a Cypriot team and qualify for the group stages of the Champions League

Didn't know Iceland was in Fifa 12.

dfx-

dfx- wrote: »

So you'll be going to Tallaght on Monday night then..meet up with dreamers75 somewhere on the way too.

Update to this: I did see two ladies in Drogheda kit, but no obvious Pats fans. A neutral game in Tallaght stadium maybe is not the most attractive proposition as originally put in this thread afterall.

8-10

If the games weren't on worknights there'd be a much better chance of me going. I honestly would love to feel passion for a local club over one that's over an hour flight away. Is there anything coming up at weekends? Cup or something? I'm in north Dublin but have a 2hr commute so weekdays are a no-no

born2bwild

http://www.extratime.ie/fixtures

Most games are on Fridays or Mondays. Sligo and Longford play at least some of their home matches on Saturdays.

Sligo would be worth the trip for their football alone - I've travelled up there to see them play even when Shels weren't playing them - once against Shamrock Rovers; once against Vorskla.

CiaranC

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Does it really matter in the end?

Yes of course it matters. If our league wasnt dying on its arse do you think LOI fans would care that there are a half a million plastics in Ireland pretending to be football fans? Barstoolers are killing Irish football by refusing to invest in the league as happens elsewhere.

bohsman

8-10 wrote: »

If the games weren't on worknights there'd be a much better chance of me going. I honestly would love to feel passion for a local club over one that's over an hour flight away. Is there anything coming up at weekends? Cup or something? I'm in north Dublin but have a 2hr commute so weekdays are a no-no

If you could make a 7 45 kickoff in Dalymount on a Friday evening it really is a great way to kick start a weekend, a couple of pints, a game of ball and some banter, even some great football being played these days. Would certainly expect some of them to end up in England soon.

Gavin "shels"

8-10 wrote: »

If the games weren't on worknights there'd be a much better chance of me going. I honestly would love to feel passion for a local club over one that's over an hour flight away. Is there anything coming up at weekends? Cup or something? I'm in north Dublin but have a 2hr commute so weekdays are a no-no

Fridays is LoI night, Saturday/Sunday/Monday is EPL afternoon/evening/night(s).

Pedro K

TheDoc wrote: »

As a child, and a young teen, the rivalry was pretty oblivious, as is most things to a child. I took more of an interest in Leeds at the age of 11, returning to my previous routes at 13/14.

I'm sure its fully plausible for someone of that age no to be coherent to rivalries and underlying tones between clubs.

Sorry, I can't agree with you at all there. Maybe a child or young teen can be oblivious to the rialry if all he/she has ever seen of the rivalry is on telly. If that kid had been going to live games he or she would've found out very quickly that there is something different about certain fixtures.

My little brother is supporting Shamrock Rovers from around the age you stated above, 11, and he's always known the rivalries. He wouldn't dream of briefly switching to Bohs or Shels.

This is the sort of stuff that us LOI fans feel a lot of EPL only fans miss out on. I'm not having a go here, but a television set, no matter how loud, 3d or HD it is will ever convey the atmosphere at a live game, particularly one against bitter rivals.

It also won't convey the atmosphere around the ground, pre and post game. The buzz of derby day, the electricity when you walk into the stadium and the roar when your team take to the pitch.

TheDoc

CSF wrote: »

It does though, this is the essence of passion. Not sitting at home on a comfortable couch getting very excited by what is happening on the TV screen.

So simply because, I can financially afford to go to every Bohs game home and away, and probably buy a **** ton of merch, makes me a "better" fan, then a lad who has followed bohs for years and financially cant go to every game?

Are you for ****ing real?

The point I made, was that simply attending games doesn't make someone more of a fan then another. I have just as much passion for my team watching from home, and on the rare occasion I get to attend a game.

Lumbo

CiaranC wrote: »

Yes of course it matters. If our league wasnt dying on its arse do you think LOI fans would care that there are a half a million plastics in Ireland pretending to be football fans? Barstoolers are killing Irish football by refusing to invest in the league as happens elsewhere.

What a great way of making people feel welcome.

Btw I'm a barstooler:rolleyes: and I go to LOI games when I can.

I also sang in Poznan. Therefore, I'm the best football fan in Ireland.

CSF

TheDoc wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

It does though, this is the essence of passion. Not sitting at home on a comfortable couch getting very excited by what is happening on the TV screen.

So simply because, I can financially afford to go to every Bohs game home and away, and probably buy a **** ton of merch, makes me a "better" fan, then a lad who has followed bohs for years and financially cant go to every game?

Are you for ****ing real?

The point I made, was that simply attending games doesn't make someone more of a fan then another. I have just as much passion for my team watching from home, and on the rare occasion I get to attend a game.

Em no, because you'd be making the effort to go to every game. And I never said better, I said as much of a fan as someone else who spent years going to every game.

That may be your point, but its ridiculous. To put yourself in the same bracket as the lads following the team around England is delusional.

DoctorGonzo08

CiaranC wrote: »

Yes of course it matters. If our league wasnt dying on its arse do you think LOI fans would care that there are a half a million plastics in Ireland pretending to be football fans? Barstoolers are killing Irish football by refusing to invest in the league as happens elsewhere.

Did you not get past the first sentence? 'The matter' I reffered to was somebody using buzzwords, as above. I don't think it matters if you feel the need to call me or anyone else this. I go to watch football regardless, as I enjoy it. I don't feel the need to classify myself as a LOI fan, or otherwise.

As a matter of interest then, do you get a certificate renouncing your 'plastic' or 'barstooler' title if you go to a LOI game?

born2bwild

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Did you not get past the first sentence? 'The matter' I reffered to was somebody using buzzwords, as above. I don't think it matters if you feel the need to call me or anyone else this. I go to watch football regardless, as I enjoy it. I don't feel the need to classify myself as a LOI fan, or otherwise.

As a matter of interest then, do you get a certificate renouncing your 'plastic' or 'barstooler' title if you go to a LOI game?

You probably shouldn't take the bait.

Whatever about barstools and plastics I think a lot of confusion can be resolved by stamping your feet a couple of times.... Feel that? Breathe in and out...taste that? That's Ireland under your feet and in your lungs - that's where you live. You don't live in England and therefore you can't easily go to EPL matches.

If you follow English football then you what you have is a TV, and a seat (possibly a barstool) - that's it.

I'm not going to say you're not a real a fan; you are watching football, after all and not bog/egg-ball, you do feel real passion(who can walk into any pub in Ireland on a Saturday afternoon and think anything else?)

The TV and the seat may be enough for you - that's not enough for me.

DoctorGonzo08

born2bwild wrote: »

If you follow English football then you what you have is a TV, and a seat (possibly a barstool) - that's it.

Haha true. I wonder would the government back you up here as you are investing in the economy by making the effort to be a barstooler and not a couch potato, and therefore the government are in a better position to allow a bigger budget to Irish Sports? Maybe a petition in the bar as to what sport you prefer the budget to go to might help. Then everyone could invest in the LOI

niallo27

born2bwild wrote: »

You probably shouldn't take the bait.

Whatever about barstools and plastics I think a lot of confusion can be resolved by stamping your feet a couple of times.... Feel that? Breathe in and out...taste that? That's Ireland under your feet and in your lungs - that's where you live. You don't live in England and therefore you can't easily go to EPL matches.

If you follow English football then you what you have is a TV, and a seat (possibly a barstool) - that's it.

I'm not going to say you're not a real a fan; you are watching football, after all and not bog/egg-ball, you do feel real passion(who can walk into any pub in Ireland on a Saturday afternoon and think anything else?)

The TV and the seat may be enough for you - that's not enough for me.

You do realise we have planes and boats and stuff that we can travel to England on.

born2bwild

niallo27 wrote: »

You do realise we have planes and boats and stuff that we can travel to England on.

Lots of us doing it one way these days.

Our football league isn't the only thing that we're trying to kill.

More and more reasons to sing the 'Fields of Athenry' every day.

smackbunnybaby

No Des = No Thread

Why can't we just all get along anyway?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o9oz9X5i9w

Helix

does nobody else find the term barstooler a bit cringeworthy? surely it's a relatively small fraction of EPL supporters who go to watch games in pubs

DoctorGonzo08

Helix wrote: »

does nobody else find the term barstooler a bit cringeworthy? surely it's a relatively small fraction of EPL supporters who go to watch games in pubs

I think it is incredibly cringworthy, but it seems to bring cheer to some, so who am I to deny them?

invinciblePRSTV

Helix wrote: »

does nobody else find the term barstooler a bit cringeworthy? surely it's a relatively small fraction of EPL supporters who go to watch games in pubs

Its a bit out of date tbh, whatwith streaming being all the rage these days. Although computerchairstooler doesn't have quiet the same ring to it.

TheDoc

CSF wrote: »

Em no, because you'd be making the effort to go to every game. And I never said better, I said as much of a fan as someone else who spent years going to every game.

That may be your point, but its ridiculous. To put yourself in the same bracket as the lads following the team around England is delusional.

I'm just not comprehending this..I don't mean to drag this point out, but it is probably #1 teeth grinder that my "LOI" mates level at me, they are better fans because they go to their clubs stadiums regularly, where as I don't.

Just to try hammer my point home.

To attend 4 home MUFC games a month.
Flying out in morning and home same day - €140
4 times = €560
Tickets at roughly €50? x4 = €200

€760 per month.

About €15 for a LOI game? €60 a month for 4 games?

€760 vs €60.

My point isn't directly labelled at finances, but the people who can actually afford to travel internationally to Old Trafford every weekend, are the exact people that get labelled as the "Prawn Sandwich brigade", no?

While you disagree that I shouldn't categorise myself with the hardcore, I personally don't believe that there are "categories".

Of course there are the absolute hardcore to which I would perhaps put in a higher category.

But by your logic, a bloke from Manchester who travels to watch LOI every week is a better fan then pretty much all of you, because he is paying to travel abroad to watch his team every week, enduring the financial hit from it, and on top of that downgrading the level of football and facilities on show...or are you saying its equal, because both parties attend the stadiums?

There is so many variables and constants that simply, for alot of people, rule out the ability to see their team regularly, but it doesn't and should not dampen or degrade that persons opinion or level of support for their club.

CSF

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm just not comprehending this..I don't mean to drag this point out, but it is probably #1 teeth grinder that my "LOI" mates level at me, they are better fans because they go to their clubs stadiums regularly, where as I don't.

Just to try hammer my point home.

To attend 4 home MUFC games a month.
Flying out in morning and home same day - €140
4 times = €560
Tickets at roughly €50? x4 = €200

€760 per month.

About €15 for a LOI game? €60 a month for 4 games?

€760 vs €60.

My point isn't directly labelled at finances, but the people who can actually afford to travel internationally to Old Trafford every weekend, are the exact people that get labelled as the "Prawn Sandwich brigade", no?

While you disagree that I shouldn't categorise myself with the hardcore, I personally don't believe that there are "categories".

Of course there are the absolute hardcore to which I would perhaps put in a higher category.

But by your logic, a bloke from Manchester who travels to watch LOI every week is a better fan then pretty much all of you, because he is paying to travel abroad to watch his team every week, enduring the financial hit from it, and on top of that downgrading the level of football and facilities on show...or are you saying its equal, because both parties attend the stadiums?

There is so many variables and constants that simply, for alot of people, rule out the ability to see their team regularly, but it doesn't and should not dampen or degrade that persons opinion or level of support for their club.

No, you're missing my point. Finances are completely irrelevant. Some people can't afford to support teams abroad (which is why it is logical to support the team down the road who you can afford to see), other can and you label them the 'prawn sandwich brigade', possibly accurately. I've only been to Old Trafford and Anfield once and therefore couldn't conclude on what these people are like.

Either way, a supporter is someone who is in the stands most weeks and I wouldn't be particularly into categorising it any further than that, other than to give my admiration to other fans who are there literally every week, home or away, near or far.

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

Either way, a supporter is someone who is in the stands most weeks and I wouldn't be particularly into categorising it any further than that, other than to give my admiration to other fans who are there literally every week, home or away, near or far.

So, here's a question; where do the hundreds of thousands of kids and teenagers in Ireland fall? The ones who insist their parents buy them merch and wear the jerseys, but obviously cannot attend many, if any, games because they live in Ireland. Is it impossible for the majority of young football followers to be deemed supporters and fans of a club?

And you can't say finances are irrelevant, since you're trying to argue it's what's stopping me from being a "true fan" of my club. If I had the money, I'd be over in Manchester every chance I got, but being unemployed, I simply cannot do that. So it is the lack of money being spent that you are arguing is the barrier between me being a customer and a fan...

_blank_

"Followers" yes.

Supporters, no.

I "follow" many teams. I look out for their results, for one reason or another, I'm happy when they win, kind of sad when they lose.

The money I spend in Tolka Park, match ticket, pints, whatever merchandise is new in the shop, a cup of tea, a chocolate bar, the program, the fanzine (yes the fanzine, Reds Ind sponsor players) literally, LITERALLY supports Shelbourne Football Club.

I've done volunteer work for the betterment of the club.

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

So, here's a question; where do the hundreds of thousands of kids and teenagers in Ireland fall? The ones who insist their parents buy them merch and wear the jerseys, but obviously cannot attend many, if any, games because they live in Ireland. Is it impossible for the majority of young football followers to be deemed supporters and fans of a club?

And you can't say finances are irrelevant, since you're trying to argue it's what's stopping me from being a "true fan" of my club. If I had the money, I'd be over in Manchester every chance I got, but being unemployed, I simply cannot do that. So it is the lack of money being spent that you are arguing is the barrier between me being a customer and a fan...

They're the same as I am with a few teams around Europe, I really like them, I watch them on TV every week and I try to get over for a holiday every once in a while. But it isn't the same as actual football supporters around the world.

And I'm not talking about 'true fans' or any of that rubbish, and I'm not having a go at anyone. If I had the money, I'd be over in Spain every single week, aswell as Shelbourne, and I might even have the nerve to call myself a fan. But I can't afford that, so I don't. I'd love to be a pilot, but I can't afford to be, so I'm not one. Should I claim that I still am a pilot, since the only reason I'm not one is that I can't afford the hefty fees?

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

I'd love to be a pilot, but I can't afford to be, so I'm not one. Should I claim that I still am a pilot, since the only reason I'm not one is that I can't afford the hefty fees?

That metaphor really doesn't work in this case. You could still be a fan of pilots and their work without spending money.

I'm not trying to say I want to be a footballer. A footballer and a pilot is a very specific job title which entails a very specific line of work. The title of "fan" however, as seen by this topic, has no such specific limitations or requirements and everyone seems to have their own idea of what being a "fan" entails.

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

That metaphor really doesn't work in this case. You could still be a fan of pilots and their work without spending money.

I'm not trying to say I want to be a footballer. A footballer and a pilot is a very specific job title which entails a very specific line of work. The title of "fan" however, as seen by this topic, has no such specific limitations or requirements and everyone seems to have their own idea of what being a "fan" entails.

Not really. A fan has been the same for over a hundred years, and to those to whom that description applied, it still applies.

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

Not really. A fan has been the same for over a hundred years, and to those to whom that description applied, it still applies.

Your definition of what a fan is has been the same for you for however long you've held your definition. I have my definition which I could also easily say "has been the same for over a hundred years". A statement like that may sound grand but it really offers no more weight to either opinion in the arguement...

CSF

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Your definition of what a fan is has been the same for you for however long you've held your definition. I have my definition which I could also easily say "has been the same for over a hundred years". A statement like that may sound grand but it really offers no more weight to either opinion in the arguement...

It isn't my definition, it is the definition of fans all over the world. You couldn't argue that your definition has been the same for over a hundred years because people who follow a football team through a TV screen have existed nowhere near that long.

Lord TSC

Ok, I'm out of this debate then.

If we're going to resort to grandoise claims like trying to say our defintions are supported by hundreds of years of global support, there's no point continuing the discussion. I'll keep my defintion, you keep yours and we'll agree to disagree without engaging in any more hyperbole.