Fidelma Healy Eames' train ticket scandal

_Whimsical_

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

and twitter is the best place for such a thing?

I don't see what is wrong with publicising a matter spoken about in the Seanad on twitter. It's done everyday by politicians. There is a link to her speaking included in the tweet, now in fairness, she'd have done greater service to the matter had she linked the speech of the person who initially raised the issue and outlined what was happening and why rather than tweeting her own response to that.

_Whimsical_

topcat77 wrote: »

If serious issues get overlooked because Fidelma has raised the issue and people turn it into a joke does that not make her position untenable?

You could say that, you could equally say if people here are unable to evaluate an issue on it's merits rather than who's speaking about it, it makes democracy as a whole untenable here.

Lockstep

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

No link has been established at this point. Gardasil, the main component of the vaccine, is presently under review by the European Medicines Agency for being implicated in causing two serious conditions, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardic Syndrome and Complex Regional Pain Syndrome. Postural Orthostatic Tachycardic Syndrome can be particularly devastating if severe to the point of being utterly disabling.
If parents aren't being given full information and contre indications, the claim FHE was responding to in the Seanad and the subject of the meetings to be held, then that is an issue worthy of discussion.

The WHO has already come out and said "there is no scientific evidence the vaccines cause harm or are related to “any autoimmune syndrome”.
source
Furthermore, the EMA review was done at the request of Denmark based on a dubious study , Sure the EMA can review it but it's not exactly based on pressing evidence.
At any rate, the RMA review does not question that the benefits of HPV vaccines outweigh their risks and highlights there's no causal link between the HPV vaccine and PRAC or CRPS.

Given the current evidence favours continued administration of the vaccine, this would be the wise thing to do.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Swine flu vaccine was not found to have serious safety concerns until it was administered to the public and some people developed narcolepsy as a result,80% are children including a small number of Irish children. They have since received payouts from governments who administered the vaccine as a link has been it and narcolepsy has now been established.

The EMA still highlights that here

The CHMP decided that Pandemrix’s benefits are greater than its risks and recommended that it be given marketing authorisation.

Pandemrix was originally authorised under ‘exceptional circumstances’, because, for scientific reasons, limited information was available at the time of approval. As the company had supplied the additional information requested, the ‘exceptional circumstances’ ended on 12 August 2010.

Following rare cases of narcolepsy (a rare sleep disorder that causes a person to fall asleep suddenly and unexpectedly) among people given the vaccine, it was concluded that Pandemrix should only be used if the recommended seasonal influenza vaccine is not available and if immunisation against H1N1 is still needed.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

It's essential to keep an open mind and at least investigate these things if they arise. Certainly if there are established contre indications they need to be flagged for parents. It's as irrational to shout down every negative experience of a vaccine without knowing all the facts as it is to be an antivaxer

It's essential to keep an open mind...when there is a well-founded risk. Not based on anti-vaccine fears like Fidelma's is.

_Whimsical_

Lockstep wrote: »

Given the current evidence favours continued administration of the vaccine, this would be the wise thing to do.


The EMA still highlights that here

It's actually FF investigating these claims in Ireland, not Fidelma.

No one is suggesting withdrawing the vaccine or that people should not have the vaccine at this point, not even FHE.
106 girls reporting onset of a very rare illness spontaneously occurring after a vaccine out of a relatively small population of girls between 12 and 18 in Ireland does in my view, and the view of the EMA require at least investigation. It is acknowledged that it maybe the case that girls with certain propensities to illness should not get this vaccine.The girls who are ill deserve a response from the health service that's so far struggling to treat their conditions. That is all that's being suggested here.

Lockstep wrote: »

The WHO has already come out and said "there is no scientific evidence the vaccines cause harm or are related to “any autoimmune syndrome”.

The WHO has said this in the past however an autoimmune basis for POTS has only been discovered in the last few months after it has proved extremely tricky to track down for many years. That's expected to change understanding of the condition quite a lot.

Lockstep wrote: »

Furthermore, the EMA review was done at the request of Denmark based on a dubious study , Sure the EMA can review it but it's not exactly based on pressing evidence.

The EMA is not dismissing it as anti vaccine scare mongering.It's absolutely disengenuous to say investigation is based on flimsy research and not pressing evidence. The report itself states that literature from several distinct locations within the EU and internationally have reported association between the vaccine and development of these serious conditions in young girls. If you look at the actual report you'll see this ,it's pdf so I can't copy and paste : http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Referrals_document/HPV_vaccines_20/Procedure_started/WC500189479.pdf
That is a worthy basis for examination.

Lockstep wrote: »

It's essential to keep an open mind...when there is a well-founded risk. Not based on anti-vaccine fears like Fidelma's is.

It's a vaccine almost exclusively given to children, it's in everyone's interests to be open to investigating it if a weight of evidence suggests it's necessary, even just with a view to allaying fears. It's not a time critical vaccine either,receiving it in the window of early adolescence to early 20s is usually ok so raising the issue publicly is not as sensitive as something like measles, mmr vaccine etc. In my view her writing one tweet about the issue is not the pressing matter here!

As regards this from your post:

Following rare cases of narcolepsy (a rare sleep disorder that causes a person to fall asleep suddenly and unexpectedly) among people given the vaccine, it was concluded that Pandemrix should only be used if the recommended seasonal influenza vaccine is not available and if immunisation against H1N1 is still needed.

It surprises me you should think this is good enough. Given that 80% of people affected and dogged with a life long very disabling condition are children. 60 million was paid out to victims in the UK because it's recognised most of those people will never work or participate in a full life. Do you not think it would be a basis for going back to the drawing board and creating a safer alternative rather than just churning it out again if panic strikes about swine flu. Should we not demand more from drug companies? Or at least be dissatisfied with such a response ?

serfboard

I'm not a supporter of FHE at all, would never vote for her, but that does not mean that every issue she raises must be dismissed out-of-hand.

I understand that of course she is coming from a certain position, and of course it would suit that position if there was found to be something wrong with the vaccine, but it cannot be overlooked that there are concerns about the vaccine. From the EMA Report:

The EMA Report wrote:

It is recognised that these conditions can occur in the general non-vaccinated population and it is considered important to undertake further review to determine whether the number of cases reported with HPV vaccine is greater than would ordinarily be expected.

....
The persisting uncertainty with regard to causal association between CRPS/POTS and HPV vaccination may have a significant impact on the future confidence in national vaccination programs.

Overall scientific evidence of a potential association between HPV vaccination and the two syndromes should be reviewed and methodologies to further investigate the concerns should be defined, if appropriate.
...
The EC requests the Agency to give its opinion as soon as possible and not later than 31 May 2016 on whether there is evidence of a causal association between HPV vaccination and CRPS and/or POTS, and if available information may require updates to the advice to healthcare professionals and patients, including changes to product information or other regulatory measures on the marketing authorisations concerned.

It might be that the vaccine, whose use I support, may turn out to have side-effects for a certain (albeit perhaps very small) percentage of the population. If it does, and if they could be identified in advance, then potentially debilitating illnesses might be prevented.

The risk might be one in a million - which is fine unless you or a family member happen to be the one ...

Gas Jockey

http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/news_and_events/news/2015/11/news_detail_002429.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac058004d5c105/11/2015

Review concludes evidence does not support that HPV vaccines cause CRPS or POTS

Reports of CRPS and POTS after HPV vaccination are consistent with what would be expected in this age group

The European Medicines Agency’s Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC) has completed a detailed scientific review of the evidence surrounding reports of two syndromes, complex regional pain syndrome (CRPS) and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS) in young women given human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccines. These vaccines are given to protect them from cervical cancer and other HPV-related cancers and pre-cancerous conditions. This review concluded that the evidence does not support a causal link between the vaccines (Cervarix, Gardasil/Silgard and Gardasil-9) and development of CRPS or POTS. Therefore, there is no reason to change the way the vaccines are used or amend the current product information.

CRPS is a chronic pain syndrome affecting a limb, while POTS is a condition where the heart rate increases abnormally on sitting or standing up, together with symptoms such as dizziness, fainting and weakness, as well as headache, aches and pains, nausea and fatigue. In some patients they can severely affect the quality of life. The syndromes are recognised to occur in the general population, including adolescents, regardless of vaccination.

PRAC thoroughly reviewed the published research, data from clinical trials and reports of suspected side effects from patients and healthcare professionals, as well as data supplied by Member States. It also consulted a group of leading experts in the field, and took into account detailed information received from a number of patient groups that also highlighted the impact these syndromes can have on patients and families.

Symptoms of CRPS and POTS may overlap with other conditions, making diagnosis difficult in both the general population and vaccinated individuals. However, available estimates suggest that in the general population around 150 girls and young women per million aged 10 to 19 years may develop CRPS each year, and at least 150 girls and young women per million may develop POTS each year. The review found no evidence that the overall rates of these syndromes in vaccinated girls were different from expected rates in these age groups, even taking into account possible underreporting. The PRAC noted that some symptoms of CRPS and POTS may overlap with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS, also known as myalgic encephalomyelitis or ME). Many of the reports considered in the review have features of CFS and some patients had diagnoses of both POTS and CFS. Results of a large published study that showed no link between HPV vaccine and CFS were therefore particularly relevant.

The PRAC concluded that the available evidence does not support that CRPS and POTS are caused by HPV vaccines. Therefore there is no reason to change the way the vaccines are used or amend the current product information.

The review recognised that more than 80 million girls and women worldwide have now received these vaccines, and in some European countries they have been given to 90% of the age group recommended for vaccination. Use of these vaccines is expected to prevent many cases of cervical cancer (cancer of the neck of the womb, which is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in Europe each year) and various other cancers and conditions caused by HPV. The benefits of HPV vaccines therefore continue to outweigh their risks. The safety of these vaccines, as with all medicines, will continue to be carefully monitored.

The PRAC’s recommendations will now be passed to the Committee for Medicinal Products for Human Use (CHMP) for adoption of the Agency’s final position. The evidence supporting the PRAC review will be published in an assessment report following the CHMP opinion.

snubbleste

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

She's gotten a ridiculous amount of negative publicity since then, and back then she was also on the Fine Gael ticket, which gathered a lot of support.

Now that Brian Walsh has dropped out, FDH TD is very possible.

Whereisgalway

snubbleste wrote: »

Now that Brian Walsh has dropped out, FDH TD is very possible.

Let's hope that never happens

TerrorFirmer

snubbleste wrote: »

Now that Brian Walsh has dropped out, FDH TD is very possible.

I wouldn't say very possible at all. There are a lot of viable candidates in Galway West and I wouldn't have Healy Eames anywhere near the top of that list.

nuac

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I wouldn't say very possible at all. There are a lot of viable candidates in Galway West and I wouldn't have Healy Eames anywhere near the top of that list.

She got within 50 votes or so last time, on the FG ticket.

This time it might be an advantage to be non-party,

What odds are being quoted against her?

TerrorFirmer

nuac wrote: »

She got within 50 votes or so last time, on the FG ticket.

This time it might be an advantage to be non-party,

What odds are being quoted against her?

She was on the FG ticket and still couldn't get elected when FG were as high as they will ever be - and that was before she made herself the center of public ridicule on a large number of occasions since.

You have Eamon O Cuiv, Sean Kyne, Catherine Connolly, John O Mahony, Noel Grealish all looking for a seat and to be taken very seriously.

Then you have Hildegarde Naughton, Derek Nolan, Trevor O Clochartaigh, and a few others as well.

I can't see how Fidelma Healy Eames sits with a chance at the top tier. She belongs in the second tier at best.

I'd be absolutely gobsmacked if she got close to being elected.

snubbleste

PaddyPower on 30 November puts her at 8/1

ScumLord

serfboard wrote: »

It might be that the vaccine, whose use I support, may turn out to have side-effects for a certain (albeit perhaps very small) percentage of the population. If it does, and if they could be identified in advance, then potentially debilitating illnesses might be prevented.

The risk might be one in a million - which is fine unless you or a family member happen to be the one ...

I'd say they do go over the possible side effects, doctors tend to do that, even the medicine comes with warnings.

Vaccination isn't really about the individual, it's about the larger community. The options are don't vaccinate the population and we all deal with the consequences of widespread illness. Or we vaccinate and reduce the risk. No medication is 100% effective on 100% of the population. Nothing is completely safe. All we can do is reduce the risk.

serfboard

snubbleste wrote: »

PaddyPower on 30 November puts her at 8/1

... and outside the top 10.

Baggy Trousers

snubbleste wrote: »

Now that Brian Walsh has dropped out, FDH TD is very possible.

Not a hope in hell I reckon. FG wont get the same 'soft' transfers and she wont get enough #1s next time out. Laughing stocks don't poll well. Naughton has a much better chance than Eames.

Surprised Kyne is 3rd fav, he will need to fight hard to retain his seat but he should be safe if Walsh has dropped out.

Same for Nolan, he only got in on Higgin's popularity but he didn't set the world on fire. And Labour are going to tank!

O'Cuiv to top the poll :mad:...Jesus wept.

Interesting contest.

snubbleste

She was so happy to get her car back after it was impounded for non-payment of taxes that she made a video in it

Laughed at her constant looking off to the side to read the cue cards

Mr_A

I wonder if the tax is up to date on that car.

ScumLord

I'd vote for Hitler if he promised to fix the traffic in Galway. I absolutely hate driving into Galway and avoid the place like the plague.

Having said that I don't really see any solutions here, it seems more like she's jumped on a hot topic.

Bottom line is we need more roads and better roads. A light rail system won't fit in a lot of Galway, bus lanes mean taking a lane away from traffic potentially making it worse. About the only thing I can see working for Galway in it's current state is google taxis, enough of them to get people to park outside of town and leave dealing with the traffic to our google overlords.

snubbleste

^^^^^
Y'see she'll get elected yet!
Anyway she is only copying the tactics of yore utilised by the fragrant Hildegarde

The Randy Riverbeast

Better be careful, she'll ban cars in Galway as they did in some US states like Nova Scotia and Italy.

ben.schlomo

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Better be careful, she'll ban cars in Galway as they did in some US states like Nova Scotia and Italy.

Muahahaha

ScumLord wrote: »

Having said that I don't really see any solutions here, it seems more like she's jumped on a hot topic.

nail on the head there, she's had 5 years in the Seanad and Galway traffic never seemed to matter until people are up in arms about it before an election. The video is opportunistic, anyone living in Galway knew a solution was needed years ago but here she is just attaching herself to the issue to pretend to care

gordongekko

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Better be careful, she'll ban cars in Galway as they did in some US states like Nova Scotia and Italy.

lol

Mrs OBumble

ScumLord wrote: »

Bottom line is we need more roads and better roads. A light rail system won't fit in a lot of Galway, bus lanes mean taking a lane away from traffic potentially making it worse. About the only thing I can see working for Galway in it's current state is google taxis, enough of them to get people to park outside of town and leave dealing with the traffic to our google overlords.

Is this a good moment to mention the Christmas Park-n-Ride?

Seems to be working well now, despite some hiccups the first weekend for totally non-bus-related reasons.

fergiesfolly

Suffice to say, if I wrote what I'd like to, I'd be facing a life time ban from boards.
And possibly a criminal conviction.

nuac

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Suffice to say, if I wrote what I'd like to, I'd be facing a life time ban from boards.
And possibly a criminal conviction.

C'mon. YOu can tell us. We can all keep a secret. Won't tell anybody. Cross our hearts etc

Jayo2011

ScumLord wrote: »

Having said that I don't really see any solutions here, it seems more like she's jumped on a hot topic.

A light rail system won't fit in a lot of Galway, bus lanes mean taking a lane away from traffic potentially making it worse.

I thought we already had a light train system in Galway???

http://www.galwaydailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/galwaytouristtrain.jpg

Poor gal, the wiffy is driving her cracked

http://connachttribune.ie/minister-urged-to-address-galway-broadband-apartheid/

Cheshire Cat

But some people can't even stream a film on netflix, surely that's a massive (first world) problem, worthy of being tackled by a senator :rolleyes:

http://fidelmahealyeames.ie/2015/12/09/broadband-speeds-disgraceful-in-maree-healy-eames/