Homophobia in movies

ZombieBride

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

Stuck Cone

ZombieBride wrote: »

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

As a gay woman i wouldnt care as long as there was some hot flange on show

JupiterKid

The Departed (which also stars Mark Wahlberg incidentally) has a lot of the f****t word bandied about in its first 40 minutes. It's still a good film but I thought there was far too much of the f word than necessary in the film.

Boys Don't Cry has possibly the most shocking scenes of sexist and homophobic violence I've ever seen in a film. But actress Hillary Swank has never shied away from playing very difficult roles.

Many films prior to the 1990s had casual homophobia in abundance.

Sonics2k

ZombieBride wrote: »

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

I'm really not trying to be a smartarse or pointing out flaws here, but please do read up on Seth MacFarlene, the creator and voice of Ted and Family Guy.

I will admit homophobia can be rampant at times, but certainly in no hateful or spiteful way from him or Mark Wahlberg.

Ciaran0

ZombieBride wrote: »

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm really not trying to be a smartarse or pointing out flaws here, but please do read up on Seth MacFarlene, the creator and voice of Ted and Family Guy.

I will admit homophobia can be rampant at times, but certainly in no hateful or spiteful way from him or Mark Wahlberg.

Yeah I agree with Sonics2k. I haven't seen Ted, but I know that Seth McFarlane is very supportive of gay rights.

whattotdo

The film 'The Inbetweeners' and the series I think are homophobic in parts,not extreme homophobia but homophobia nonetheless which is a pity because the both the film and series' were a huge success.

ZombieBride

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm really not trying to be a smartarse or pointing out flaws here, but please do read up on Seth MacFarlene, the creator and voice of Ted and Family Guy.

I will admit homophobia can be rampant at times, but certainly in no hateful or spiteful way from him or Mark Wahlberg.

Is that the latter part of your reply not a contradiction? This would specifically be about this one movie, but about the general homophobia in movies. It is not whether macfarlene intended hurt by the script but whether there was a need for the comments about not being gay throughout the movie.
Does the general masses who watch lad movies read up on the actor/writers before going? I think not, so how would the rampant (as you say) homophobia affect how they deal with gay people in society.

28064212

whattotdo wrote: »

The film 'The Inbetweeners' and the series I think are homophobic in parts,not extreme homophobia but homophobia nonetheless which is a pity because the both the film and series' were a huge success.

See, here's a problem. The Inbetweeners was about a group of secondary school "lads", the societal group which has probably the single greatest level of visible casual homophobia. How could you do a series on that group while artificially removing a very common feature of their daily lives?

If anything, I think hiding it is a bad approach. Unless they're presenting homophobia as something to aspire to, brushing it under the rug and pretending it doesn't happen does more damage.

Sonics2k

ZombieBride wrote: »

Is that the latter part of your reply not a contradiction? This would specifically be about this one movie, but about the general homophobia in movies. It is not whether macfarlene intended hurt by the script but whether there was a need for the comments about not being gay throughout the movie.
Does the general masses who watch lad movies read up on the actor/writers before going? I think not, so how would the rampant (as you say) homophobia affect how they deal with gay people in society.

Seth MacFarlene comedies are well known for making jokes about -everyone-. He considers everyone fair go for a bit of a poking, from the average bloke, to the religious, women, gun-nuts, race and yes, homosexuals. And frankly, I totally support that ideal. Everyone is free game.

I wouldn't even classify his humour as homophobic, really. Is he making a couple of gay jokes, yes. Are the expressed to honestly offend or genuinely insult, absolutely not.

I'd say the vast majority of people who've been watching Family Guy for a long time have picked up on his political ideals, because ironically enough it can come across in the show based on various episodes.

There are, however, always going to be idiots and bigots. But putting the blame on a movie like Ted or the Inbetweeners is completely missing the point.

Ciaran0

I think being able to crack a joke at your own expense is important. One group shouldn't be exempt from being made fun of because that wouldn't be equality.

And regarding serious movies and television containing homophobia, I don't believe there are very many that actually promote homophobia. Homophobia does exist in the world so it shouldn't be hushed up. It's better to show it on our screens as the vile, disgusting thing that it is. And as far as derogatory words like f****t being used, well, words as only as powerful as we make them.

wonderfulname

There's a difference between promoting and portraying homophobia, same goes for violence, drug use, racism, sexism, law breaking, god worshiping, whatever. I don't think I'd be too interested in a film industry churning out idealised characters, it's flaws that make iconic ones.

stephen_n

What exactly are you referring to as homophobic in the movie, I have watched it twice and nothing about it struck me as particularly homophobic, so would be interested in your view what was?

floggg

FFS The inbetweeners was not homophobic. It featured some insecure socially awkward juvenile teenagers who said some homophobic things, and then we all laughed at them for being so juvenile and socially inept.

The gays were never the but of the joke, the teenagers were!

stephen_n

floggg wrote: »

FFS The inbetweeners was not homophobic. It featured some insecure socially awkward juvenile teenagers who said some homophobic things, and then we all laughed at them for being so juvenile and socially inept.

The gays were never the but of the joke, the teenagers were!

So it was ageist! :eek:

whattotdo

floggg wrote: »

FFS The inbetweeners was not homophobic. It featured some insecure socially awkward juvenile teenagers who said some homophobic things, and then we all laughed at them for being so juvenile and socially inept.

The gays were never the but of the joke, the teenagers were!

If they said 'homophobic things' than surely it's homophobic.In one episode the character Will used the phrase 'bumder' to describe Neil's dad which is a combination of two words I wont write here.
Throughout the whole series' imo they protray been gay as something to be laughed at,uncool but as someone above said,a good point,it does reflect reality and there's no point hiding it under the carpet either.

1ZRed

Ah man I hate this, being way to sensitive to anything homophobic. It's just a piss take movie so what?

I take the piss out of being gay the whole time, it's no big deal and I actually think that being anti anything homophobic is really annoying and nearly as irritating as being very homophobic.

Lighten up about it. Everything here doesn't have to be "this is so homophobic" all the time.

wonderfulname

whattotdo wrote: »

If they said 'homophobic things' than surely it's homophobic.In one episode the character Will used the phrase 'bumder' to describe Neil's dad which is a combination of two words I wont write here.
Throughout the whole series' imo they protray been gay as something to be laughed at,uncool but as someone above said,a good point,it does reflect reality and there's no point hiding it under the carpet either.

No, it's not. The character is homophobic, there's a difference, and in the case of the inbetweeners it's not even that, it's insecurity, either you didn't get it or you're hyper sensitive, would you consider it a sexist show due to Jay's... being Jay? Or does that just reflect on the character for you?

Aurongroove

ZombieBride wrote: »

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

define "contained homophobia". for example American Beauty "contained homophobia" Brokeback Mountain "contained homophobia" and I'm pretty sure Albert Knobbs contains homophobia. etc.

I suspect you've confused homophobia with the portrayal of homophobia or jokes with homosexual references.

I can't see Ted being homophobic.

ZombieBride

Oh my goodness people get out of my throat. From the defensive responses I can't see how I was being the sensitive one. It is no wonder why I was told to steer away form this forum. As I said in the OP and this isn't specifically about Ted but about the "lad" culture in movies in general.
There were many scenes in Ted that really just weren't needed IMO, as when there was the consoling hug between the two best friends and Ted's automatic switch said "I love you" and there were the darting eyes and immediate I'm not gay. Do best friends not tell each other they love them? They do in my world.
As for the, it is just a joke, it happens in real life opinion, perhaps they should change the name of the campaign from "it gets better" to "Just get over it", I can see that going down very well with teenagers at the butt of "jokes"


(none of you know me here, so have nothing to gauge my sensitivity level with it was a genuine question that as with most questions it better when discussed, than thrown away with "you're too sensitive")

stephen_n

ZombieBride wrote: »

Oh my goodness people get out of my throat. From the defensive responses I can't see how I was being the sensitive one. It is no wonder why I was told to steer away form this forum. As I said in the OP and this isn't specifically about Ted but about the "lad" culture in movies in general.
There were many scenes in Ted that really just weren't needed IMO, as when there was the consoling hug between the two best friends and Ted's automatic switch said "I love you" and there were the darting eyes and immediate I'm not gay. Do best friends not tell each other they love them? They do in my world.
As for the, it is just a joke, it happens in real life opinion, perhaps they should change the name of the campaign from "it gets better" to "Just get over it", I can see that going down very well with teenagers at the butt of "jokes"


(none of you know me here, so have nothing to gauge my sensitivity level with it was a genuine question that as with most questions it better when discussed, than thrown away with "you're too sensitive")

It was a comedy, as in "intended to be funny" if they removed the scenes that weren't needed there would be very little left.

That scene you described is designed to take the piss out of ladish behaviour and general insecurity around hereterosexual stereotypes, I really can't understand how you can fail to see that and in some way think it's homophobic.

ZombieBride

stephen_n wrote: »

That scene you described is designed to take the piss out of ladish behaviour and general insecurity around hereterosexual stereotypes, I really can't understand how you can fail to see that and in some way think it's homophobic.

Its not that I can't see that it was intended to be humorous I just feel that this is something that warrants discussion, and I can't really understand how you can fail to see that.

stephen_n

ZombieBride wrote: »

Its not that I can't see that it was intended to be humorous I just feel that this is something that warrants discussion, and I can't really understand how you can fail to see that.

Your thread title was homophobia in movies, I asked earlier for a definition of what you regarded as homophobic in the movie TED and this was an example you gave, you seem to be agreeing that it's not actually homophobic, so what are we discussing?

martingriff

JupiterKid wrote: »

The Departed (which also stars Mark Wahlberg incidentally) has a lot of the f****t word bandied about in its first 40 minutes. It's still a good film but I thought there was far too much of the f word than necessary in the film.

Boys Don't Cry has possibly the most shocking scenes of sexist and homophobic violence I've ever seen in a film. But actress Hillary Swank has never shied away from playing very difficult roles.

Many films prior to the 1990s had casual homophobia in abundance.

Maybe because it is based on a true event

Go on wikipedia and look at the true events. The homophobic events the film depicts is what happened. The movie is not homophobic it to show you how homophobic people could have been and what happened. It is a very shocking film and reasons wht Hillary Swank got so many nominations and awards

Silvics

Is this homophobia on the part of the film maker, or is it homophobia inherent in one or more of the characters, in which case it isn't real.
Brokeback Mountain was the most pro gay movie I've ever seen. One or other of the characters was homophobic, but that was part of the plot. It was not promoting hatred of gay people.

martingriff

ZombieBride wrote: »

Its not that I can't see that it was intended to be humorous I just feel that this is something that warrants discussion, and I can't really understand how you can fail to see that.

And people are saying there opinions. It is that kind of forum after all. I see it you are being a bit sensitive as people are not seeing things your way.

There is a problem with being PC at the moment. You cant do anything without been labeled this or that.

1ZRed

Silvics wrote: »

Is this homophobia on the part of the film maker, or is it homophobia inherent in one or more of the characters, in which case it isn't real.
Brokeback Mountain was the most pro gay movie I've ever seen. One or other of the characters was homophobic, but that was part of the plot. It was not promoting hatred of gay people.

I agree there. Brokeback mountain was highly homophobic and showed very severe anti gay views and violence but that's how it built it's tone, placement and atmosphere which actually got across a very pro gay message in the end because of this harshness. So OP, saying homophobia in movies is completely wrong is not actually true. It's the context by which it is used in and ultimately it's final message to the audience regarding it.

To me TED is nothing but a light hearted movie. It's just full of stereotypes and we all know nobody can actually live up to all of them- it's impossible so why not just laugh at them and let your guard down?

baby and crumble

Guys, regardless of my own personal opinion on this issue, please stop attacking people who find certain movies, books, comments etc as either offensive or homophobic. You don't know what informs each individuals back story and way they interpret the world.

martingriff

baby and crumble wrote: »

Guys, regardless of my own personal opinion on this issue, please stop attacking people who find certain movies, books, comments etc as either offensive or homophobic. You don't know what informs each individuals back story and way they interpret the world.

the OP posted on a public forum what do you expect will happen. People giving there opinions on what the OP said. What a shocker

flyswatter

baby and crumble wrote: »

Guys, regardless of my own personal opinion on this issue, please stop attacking people who find certain movies, books, comments etc as either offensive or homophobic. You don't know what informs each individuals back story and way they interpret the world.

You must be reading a different thread than me, no one is "attacking" anyone as you put it. Of course we don't know the individuals back story, posters here are merely debating the opinion of the OP.

Annasopra

baby and crumble wrote: »

Guys, regardless of my own personal opinion on this issue, please stop attacking people who find certain movies, books, comments etc as either offensive or homophobic. You don't know what informs each individuals back story and way they interpret the world.

martingriff wrote: »

the OP posted on a public forum what do you expect will happen. People giving there opinions on what the OP said. What a shocker

flyswatter wrote: »

You must be reading a different thread than me, no one is "attacking" anyone as you put it. Of course we don't know the individuals back story, posters here are merely debating the opinion of the OP.

Hi guys - feedback on moderation should be dealt with by PM as per the forum charter. I'll be deleting any further comments re moderation

Oracle

The OP is 100% right, the Movies, Hollywood, and the entertainment industry in general, are anti-gay and always have been. Its been going on for years.

Sonics2k

Oracle wrote: »

The OP is 100% right, the Movies, Hollywood, and the entertainment industry in general, are anti-gay and always have been. Its been going on for years.

Where? Show me the movies and T.V. shows from Hollywood, big blockbuster lad films that are right out homophobic.

ZombieBride wrote: »

There were many scenes in Ted that really just weren't needed IMO, as when there was the consoling hug between the two best friends and Ted's automatic switch said "I love you" and there were the darting eyes and immediate I'm not gay. Do best friends not tell each other they love them? They do in my world.

Yes they do, but how is that homophobic? Are you saying the show Scrubs was homophobic? Or countless other shows and movies that have done the exact same thing?

If anything, that whole theme is taking the piss out of the lad culture, and having a hard time expressing love towards friends, even in a non-romantic way.

Oracle

Sonics2k wrote: »

Where? Show me the movies and T.V. shows from Hollywood, big blockbuster lad films that are right out homophobic....

You show me movies, TV shows and big blockbuster Hollywood films, that are positive about homosexuality.

1ZRed

Sonics2k wrote: »

If anything, that whole theme is taking the piss out of the lad culture, and having a hard time expressing love towards friends, even in a non-romantic way.

I know exactly. I'm part of that lad culture and I take the piss out of my sexuality a lot and heterosexuality as well. Does that mean that I'm a self loathing gay guy with a bad case of internalised homophobia?
No I'm just not giving a sh/t and having a nice laugh along the way

Sonics2k

Oracle wrote: »

You show me movies, TV shows and big blockbuster Hollywood films, that are positive about homosexuality.

Quite literally, off the top of my head. Loads more if I could bother.

Movies
Brokeback Mountain.
Milk
Philadelphia
But I'm a Cheerleader
To Wong Foo (though Priscilla is a far better movie, I won't count it as it's Australian)
Rocky Horror Picture Show.

TV shows.
Scrubs
The L word
Ellen
Queer as Folk
Will and Grace
Game of Thrones

Locker10a

Oracle wrote: »

You show me movies, TV shows and big blockbuster Hollywood films, that are positive about homosexuality.

So every movie that isint positive about homosexuality is now homophobic!!
If a movies only has white characters is it then racist?

ixoy

Some more TV shows that are positive about homosexuality:

Six Feet Under: Stable gay couple in a relationship

The Wire: One of the favourite characters from TV in the last decade, judging by forums all over the Web, is a gun-totin' vigilante who just happens to be gay.

Happy Endings: Very non-stereotypical gay character in it, refreshingly so for a comedy.

Silvics

I wonder if age is something that perhaps explains some of the differing opinions.
For many younger people, they have no memories of the criminalization of homosexuality in many countries, which in many cases was only overturned in the 90s and 2000s. Gay pride marches were invariably rag-tag events, not the slick mainstreamed bring-the-family-to events that they are now. AIDS was scaring the crap out of most people and gay men were dropping like flies. Declan Flynn was gaybashed to death in Dublin in Fairview Park and his killers got suspended sentences to the jubilation of many locals.
Things have changed phenomenally, and continue to change for the better with little negative reaction. This is mirrored in popular media, and it seems to be so normal that NOT to have a gay character is unusual.
I get many gay themed movies on Amazon-many of them foreign but many UK or US movies with gay characters. Most are pretty good, some awful but check the ratings to avoid the trashy ones. Then I pass them on to friends/family to clue them in on gay life/sensibility, and I've decided to donate two gay movies a month to the local library-it can only broaden people's outlook.

Oracle

I'm not familiar with all of those movies or TV shows, but those I do know, don't portray homosexuality in a positive way. For example, take the most celebrated "gay movie" of recent years Brokeback Mountain. In this movie one of the two central characters dies a painful violent death, and his former partner goes on to live a heterosexual life.

This tragic tale is what Hollywood considers a "feel good" gay movie. That's the level of regard Hollywood has for homosexual characters and their lives.

Sonics2k

So no positive ending = homophobic.

Gotcha.

baby and crumble

Oracle wrote: »

I'm not familiar with all of those movies or TV shows, but those I do know, don't portray homosexuality in a positive way. For example, take the most celebrated "gay movie" of recent years Brokeback Mountain. In this movie one of the two central characters dies a painful violent death, and his former partner goes on to live a heterosexual life.

This tragic tale is what Hollywood considers a "feel good" gay movie. That's the level of regard Hollywood has for homosexual characters and their lives.

I'm not sure if I share that opinion- the love story in Brokeback was between two men, and when they were allowed do their own thing, without society judging them, they were happy and in love. The violent death is caused by other peoples homophobia, not by his being gay, and Enis doesn't 'go on' to live a heterosexual life. He truly mourns the death of his former lover.

I also don't think anyone, anywhere, has ever said that Brokeback was meant to be a feel good movie.

Locker10a

Coincidentally Brokeback mountain is on RTE One NOW !!

I do think some* people are oversensitive and yes I have lived in Modern Ireland and dont remember the Dark ages of illegal homosexuality!
But thats not my fault , i cant help my age! I understand and appreciate the hardship people went through in the past , but i am not nor do i intend to think about it everyday and look for comparissons to gay bashing and gay criminalization in an innocent comedy, whos writers most likly have no anti-gay agenda at all! How miserable would life be if you couldnt go to the cinema with a few friends without getting offended/pissed off as a comedy with moderate jokes about certain people!
And broke back mountain is not Homophobic! It is a movies that reflects the reality of many gays mens lives in the past !

Annasopra

Oracle wrote: »

The OP is 100% right, the Movies, Hollywood, and the entertainment industry in general, are anti-gay and always have been. Its been going on for years.

I think you might be exaggerating a little bit.

Oracle

Brokeback Mountain, is similar to most Hollywood movies that depict homosexuality. The message about homosexuality from Hollywood is, and always has been, that homosexuality equals death; usually a painful, violent or self-inflicted death.

This movies overall message is not a positive one. Its a movie that encourages the general audience to feel homosexuality is a tragic life and will lead to a painful early death, and that gay relationships are flawed and doomed to fail.

Aurongroove

This movies overall message is not a positive one. Its a movie that encourages the general audience to feel homosexuality is a tragic life and will lead to a painful early death, and that gay relationships are flawed and doomed to fail.

Does The Diary of Anne Frank and The Boy in the Striped Pijamas encourage audience to feel Judaism is a tragic life and will lead to a painful, early death and that the Jewish religion is flawed and doomed to fail?

No, these are films ABOUT anti-Semitism.
They are NOT anti-Semitic films.

28064212

Oracle wrote: »

Brokeback Mountain, is similar to most Hollywood movies that depict homosexuality. The message about homosexuality from Hollywood is, and always has been, that homosexuality equals death; usually a painful, violent or self-inflicted death.

This movies overall message is not a positive one. Its a movie that encourages the general audience to feel homosexuality is a tragic life and will lead to a painful early death, and that gay relationships are flawed and doomed to fail.

And Romeo and Juliet is about the complete failure of heterosexuality

stephen_n

Oracle wrote: »

Brokeback Mountain, is similar to most Hollywood movies that depict homosexuality. The message about homosexuality from Hollywood is, and always has been, that homosexuality equals death; usually a painful, violent or self-inflicted death.

This movies overall message is not a positive one. Its a movie that encourages the general audience to feel homosexuality is a tragic life and will lead to a painful early death, and that gay relationships are flawed and doomed to fail.

Movies are completely subjective and storylines are colored by what your experience tells you. Most people would have viewed broke back as a damming indictment of homophobia in society, the true nature of same sex love and the need for its acceptance, how you could view it as homophobic is beyond me but obviously reflects your experience and world view.

Sappa

ZombieBride wrote: »

I had the misfortune to watch Ted tonight, and it got me thinking about the blatant homophobia in many lad movies and how that influences those who watch them.

Are there any homophobic movies or scenes in popular movies that stand out for you and would you avoid going to see a movie if you were told it contained homophobia?

Ted is a funny movie if you line family guy humour then what's the problem with a few jokes they ripp on everyone.

Davyhal

Ted, like all Seth McFarlane productions, is not homophobic. The banter that occurs in that movie is the banter that happens in real life. I actually went to see the movie with 2 gay mates and 1 Boston girl, and the Boston girl was the only one of us that took even the slightest offence at any joke in the whole movie, and that even passed when we pointed out that we have heard what she is liking when she is having sex, and even she admitted that she found the joke funny. A movie is Homophobic if it protrays Homosexuality as wrong, Ted simply protrayed lad's banter, and did so accurately too!

floggg

Wow, this thread got ridiculous.

Broke back mountain is a negative Hollywood portrayal of gay life? Apart from the above comments (the Romeo and Juliet comparison also sprang to my mind when reading that post), would you not say that it was probably an accurate portrayal of what societies views on homosexuality was at the time?

That being said, should they lied and given it a Bollywood style all singing all dancing ending where the whole town attends their big gay wedding?

Or should certain stories just not be told if somebody can possibly twist it to confirm their prejudices (again, it would take a fair deal of twisting for it to be a film about harmful gay lifestyles rather than harmful homophobia)?

I would say 99% of people watching that thought how tragic it was that they couldn't be together and came away thinking how absurd it is to let hate and intolerance destroy love.

And as for Ted, wow! How the **** could anybody think it's homophobic? The "I love you/I'm not gay" scene was a joke about their insecurity preventing them being open with each other, not on being gay.

Seriously, it's a big stretch to try and twist that to being anti-gay. No offence but I think if you are that sensitive to perceived slights, you should stay away from comedies.

EmmetOT

Movies should never be taken to be homophobic, sexist, racist, etc, as long as they're realistic depictions of what they set out to portray, and (obviously) not actually directed at the audience.

Here's a handy key - The MOVIE is not homophobic, the CHARACTERS are homophobic.