that junction in ennistymon

ger664

When the council do get round to widening/removing the bend be prepared for months of disruption. You see how long they have been at the new section of the ennis/tulla moterway @ spancilhill

Brennans Row

squonk wrote: »

Relocation is an alternative if we want to save the buildings but i remember buying sweets at Mary Blakes in the past and to look at the buildings now, they're in pretty bad repair. While conservation is good, you can't save everything and, frankly, if it comes down to these buildings or saving somebody's life, then the buildings quite clearly have to go.

Obviously the present owners of these buildings (here the Clare Co. Co.) are responsible for any safety issues arising from them and are criminally liable for any injuries especially if they deliberately allow them to decay like that.

They were maintained before the Co. Co. acquired them.

Their strategy seems to be to turn them into a health and safety issue in order to get them out of the way.

If so, a very bad precedent that can be applied to any other building of heritage in Ennistymon too.

I wonder what solution do the people of Ennisytmon like to see for Blakes corner?

squonk

Brennans Row wrote: »

Obviously the present owners of these buildings (here the Clare Co. Co.) are responsible for any safety issues arising from them and are criminally liable for any injuries especially if they deliberately allow them to decay like that.

They were maintained before the Co. Co. acquired them.

Their strategy seems to be to turn them into a health and safety issue in order to get them out of the way.

If so, a very bad precedent that can be applied to any other building of heritage in Ennistymon too.

I wonder what solution do the people of Ennisytmon like to see for Blakes corner?

Well look at the position the council are in. They want to rejig that junction and so bought the buildings. Because of the conservation group they can't do anything with the buildings. It makes no sense to renovate the buildings as that was not the original purpose of the purchase or, no doubt, the funds allocated for the work. Has the conservation group approached Clare Co. Co. regarding purchasing the buildings or contributing financially to their relocation to a more suitable location?

Personally the two solutions I'd like to see for the corner are:

1. New road from Ennis to Lahinch/West Clare in geners (highly unlikely)
2. Upgrade of the existing road and a safe and manageable junction (which really entails razing the buildings).

Silvics

People that advocate retaining the buildings for conservation purposes should be forced to stump up the money for said conservation. Frankly, I'll take safety anytime over past-their-use buildings. A little sense of perspective goes a long way.

liammur

That's a shocking bend alright especially as you are coming from the Limerick side going to Lahinch, I nearly went down the hole a few days ago because an incompetent driver on the other side was over the white line.

haybob

Brennans Row wrote: »

Obviously the present owners of these buildings (here the Clare Co. Co.) are responsible for any safety issues arising from them and are criminally liable for any injuries especially if they deliberately allow them to decay like that.

They were maintained before the Co. Co. acquired them.

Their strategy seems to be to turn them into a health and safety issue in order to get them out of the way.

If so, a very bad precedent that can be applied to any other building of heritage in Ennistymon too.

I wonder what solution do the people of Ennisytmon like to see for Blakes corner?

It’s safe to say that more than 90% of the people of Ennistymon would be quite happy if the building were levelled. There are more people to take into account than the locals too there are the people who visit Lahinch and the cliffs of moher I won’t put a number on it.

Silvics wrote: »

People that advocate retaining the buildings for conservation purposes should be forced to stump up the money for said conservation. Frankly, I'll take safety anytime over past-their-use buildings. A little sense of perspective goes a long way.

I actually see the cultural value of the building but what’s wrong with the buildings on Parliament Street, it’s a disgrace. Clare County council don’t own the building up there and it’s awful to walk up.

Finally, where the feck are you Senator Conway, you were its fair to say the leading voice on this issue till you were elected to seanad eireann ???

Brennans Row

Silvics wrote: »

People that advocate retaining the buildings for conservation purposes should be forced to stump up the money for said conservation.

Sounds like only people with money can express opinions on heritage?

Silvics wrote: »

Frankly, I'll take safety anytime over past-their-use buildings. A little sense of perspective goes a long way.

Take this perspective for example, a good friend of mine bought an old building (very similar to Blakes) in the 1990's.

The previous owner had started a restaurant but it was too small to make a living from it.

So he extended the restaurant to the rear and integrated it very tastefully into original building.

The simple authentic front façade of the building was a great selling image for the restaurant, especially as they served-up local produce like Burren Lamb, Beef, Lobster, Mussels, Bio-Vegetables etc, etc.

Believe me these so called past-their-use buildings can still give some people a good living in Ennistymon for many years to come, where as only a roundabout with a few hanging baskets won't.

Brennans Row

haybob wrote: »

It’s safe to say that more than 90% of the people of Ennistymon would be quite happy if the building were levelled.

That high figure is very conclusive.

Could you break down that 90% into what reasons they want them demolished for?

haybob

Brennans Row wrote: »

That high figure is very conclusive.

Could you break down that 90% into what reasons they want them demolished for?

can't really be specific as to the actual breakdown but being a local I would imagine
Safety, Time, Convience, Business (MONEY),

There is a school out that way and it’s a serious risk if you have to use blakes corner, school buses kids walking home or to other school buses etc etc .

I appreciate your idea about blakes corner but where would the customers for such a restaurant park, Unglerts customers struggle with the small car park beside linanes or on the side of the road, or where would the delivery vans go with the produce, fine idea badly needed in Ennistymon but just not there.

Silvics

"Sounds like only people with money can express opinions on heritage?"
Of course not, simply put your money where your mouth is.
The corner is dangerous-as I said safety takes precedence. Another poster suggested removing them and rebuilding them in Bunratty Park-great idea.
Honestly, can you tell the difference between a "bio vegetable" and one grown with nutrients? You should patent your taste buds, then you can pay to retain the derelict buildings, and build a bypass. Simples!

Brennans Row

Silvics wrote: »

Honestly, can you tell the difference between a "bio vegetable" and one grown with nutrients?

Why not ask the people at the Ennistymon Farmers Market about the quality of their good food.

haybob wrote: »

can't really be specific as to the actual breakdown but being a local I would imagine Safety, Time, Convience, Business (MONEY)

In the Irish Times article that I posted on page 1, it states . . . .

In order to facilitate its road improvement scheme, the council wants to demolish both buildings and rebuild them on a setback line eight to 10m from their existing location.

A report by Cork-based consultant engineers Southgate and Associates, commissioned by the council, apparently shows how this could be done. But the report, which was completed some months ago, has not been published.

According to Mr Tiernan, it recommends “the careful deconstruction of the buildings and reconstruction of the front portions . . . set back in the site .. . using the original conserved historic fabric to the exact profiles of the buildings as they currently exist”.

I wonder have the locals of Ennistymon any opportunity to see this report to date?

Silvics

I'm asking you.....

Brennans Row

Silvics wrote: »

I'm asking you.....

I usually do, but I couldn't guarantee you that some cute hoar could dupe me with non-organic stuff passing off as organic produce.

haybob

Brennans Row wrote: »

Why not ask the people at the Ennistymon Farmers Market about the quality of their good food.

In the Irish Times article that I posted on page 1, it states . . . .

In order to facilitate its road improvement scheme, the council wants to demolish both buildings and rebuild them on a setback line eight to 10m from their existing location.

A report by Cork-based consultant engineers Southgate and Associates, commissioned by the council, apparently shows how this could be done. But the report, which was completed some months ago, has not been published.

According to Mr Tiernan, it recommends “the careful deconstruction of the buildings and reconstruction of the front portions . . . set back in the site .. . using the original conserved historic fabric to the exact profiles of the buildings as they currently exist”.

I wonder have the locals of Ennistymon any opportunity to see this report to date?

Plenty of people would like to read that report but the underhand tactic the council are using won’t allow it, there is huge pressure on them just to level it, it’s the kind of think so lad will get elected to the county council over.

I don’t get the relevance of the report to the current discussion, I know loads of people see the point in the conservation of these buildings but they are simply outweighed by safety concerns. If and when something is done I would imagine some fascinating arc logical discoveries there, it was most likely a river crossing in the distant pass, the old forge is relatively near there too and it’s another building deserving of conservation

RoisinD

There have been so many accidents at that corner and to watch some drivers trying to negotiate it would be funny if it was not so serious. As someone has mentioned the national and one of the secondary schools have to accessed by most by using that corner. So too for most of those accessing the church. It is saddening sometimes to see some of the elderly waiting for someone to help them cross the road.

The local politicians have gone very quiet on the issue. Martin Conway was very vocal but as has been said since he became a senator it seems to have ceased to be an active issue for him. To be fair the issue was one of the things used against him in the last local elections. When I was canvassed by supporters of another local candidate the issue of Martin's stance on Blake's corner was quoted. Those tactics did not work as can be seen by the election results.:) Those for retaining the corner, as it is, have certainly used every available outlet available to them to get publicity. How many of those campaigning to retain the corner use it on a daily basis? As I understand it one of them although having a property outside the town spends considerable time out of the area and another although a town native lives in Lahinch.

Perhaps it is time for a public meeting to be called between local politicians, local people both for and against and of course the local council. Get all the cards on the table. Yes I am sure it would be a difficult meeting but it is time the feelings of the other side are heard. IMO this is the only way progress can be made.

Brennans Row

haybob wrote: »

I don’t get the relevance of the report to the current discussion

Usually if a county council takes the trouble of getting professional advice, they would more than likely follow the reports recommendations, of course after when people had discussed it in the public domain.

The part I did not understand exactly, is where it gave the impression to me that only the “reconstruction of the front portions” should take place.

Is that what the Save Ennistymon’s Heritage group meant when they reject “the idea of a Hollywood set” in Ennistymon.

Or am I reading this all wrong.

haybob

Brennans Row wrote: »

Usually if a county council takes the trouble of getting professional advice, they would more than likely follow the reports recommendations, of course after when people had discussed it in the public domain.

The part I did not understand exactly, is where it gave the impression to me that only the “reconstruction of the front portions” should take place.

Is that what the Save Ennistymon’s Heritage group meant when they reject “the idea of a Hollywood set” in Ennistymon.

Or am I reading this all wrong.

Save Ennistymon Heritage is a joke to be honest, they are only interested in blakes corners I have given examples of dilapidated Georgian houses on Parliament street or the old forge near bakes corners or the SHOP FRONTS again on parliament street why don’t they try and save them ?????? Their suggestion of a roundabout at that particular junction is totally inadequate.

Space is the problem the building either 1)get demolished 2) get moved back 3) get rebuilt elsewhere

I don’t agree with the council approach but the so the so called Save Ennistymon Heritage either has an agenda or are blind I'm not sure

Brennans Row

RoisinD wrote: »

Perhaps it is time for a public meeting to be called between local politicians, local people both for and against and of course the local council. Get all the cards on the table. Yes I am sure it would be a difficult meeting but it is time the feelings of the other side are heard. IMO this is the only way progress can be made.

You mean it hasn't happened yet?

Sure pedestrian safety is always paramount in an urban area.

Personally, I believe it is possible to solve both issues by moving the houses back 10 meters in order to construct a safer junction.

A win-win situation for the town

Ironically by solving the slow grid-lock of traffic by speeding up the flow with a roundabout, it could lead to a new problem for pedestrians walking along the one and only narrow pathway over the bridge?

squonk

Brennans Row wrote: »

Sounds like only people with money can express opinions on heritage?

Not true but certainly if I want to ensure that something retains its character or some other aspect that appeals to me, I'll look at buying it. If buying it isn't possible, I'll contribute financially to ensuring it's going to be preserved.

The issue here is that from being around the town, I get the impression that the heritage campaigners are in the minority in this issue. Most people want a safe junction and probably, when push comes to shove, won't care greatly how that is achieved.

I see the campaign raising funds for their operations but, like anything, if you feel something is truly appropriate, you'll put your hand in your own pocket to achieve it. I think even a symbolic contribution like 10% of the cost of relocating the buildings might be seen as a gesture of goodwill by all. The alternative is a group seeking to delay and add expense to a badly needed project in a country where public funds are at a premium as it is. If something like that doesn't happen then it might be just time to acknowledge that a valid protest was made but to crack on with solving the core issue as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Drawfirst

Brennans Row wrote: »

You mean it hasn't happened yet?


Personally, I believe it is possible to solve both issues by moving the houses back 10 meters in order to construct a safer junction.

I dont have an opinion on whether these should be leveled or moved.
I can tell you that even from a quick glance, it is very unlikely that these buildings could be lifted and moved as you suggested earlier. One building appears to be split level. Both buildings are of an age that they would have limited foundation, if any and likely very poor mass concrete construction. The only option here would be careful de-construction and re-constitution at another location. Very expensive.

Brennans Row

squonk wrote: »

I think even a symbolic contribution like 10% of the cost of relocating the buildings might be seen as a gesture of goodwill by all.

Sounds like a positive proposal to diffuse the negativity surrounding the issue.

Additionally the County Council could team up with FÁS to reconstruct / conserve the buildings of Blakes corner after they have moved them.

That could take some people off the dole and give them some practical experience like carpentry, masonry etc.

When money is tight volunteerism is another source to tap into where for example an architect could offer his know how.

The County Council can also recoup some of their restoration costs by selling the buildings when market conditions are more favourable.

In the long run one needs a local civic trust to help restore the towns heritage.

I'm no local, just a regular holiday visitor to the Burren and I like Ennistymon's heritage too much to refrain from commenting on it.

haybob

Brennans Row wrote: »

Sounds like a positive proposal to diffuse the negativity surrounding the issue.

Additionally the County Council could team up with FÁS to reconstruct / conserve the buildings of Blakes corner after they have moved them.

That could take some people off the dole and give them some practical experience like carpentry, masonry etc.

When money is tight volunteerism is another source to tap into where for example an architect could offer his know how.

The County Council can also recoup some of their restoration costs by selling the buildings when market conditions are more favourable.

In the long run one needs a local civic trust to help restore the towns heritage.

I'm no local, just a regular holiday visitor to the Burren and I like Ennistymon's heritage too much to refrain from commenting on it.

Ennistymon is very important town to North and even West Clare, it offers banking, legal, accounting, medical, dental services as well as shops and pubs, I believe the supermarket to be as good if not better than most.

It should be noted that it offers these services to locals and hundreds and thousands of tourists.

Like I said earlier the real issue with Blakes corner is the level of traffic that passes by, it is the main route to Lahinch and one of two to the cliffs it’s just unsustainable.

I would suggest if you interested in the heritage of Ennistymon you have a look at the old forge and a look up Parliament street, the famine memorial on the lahinch road, the old court house and the Moanreel ambush memorial, and if you can get your hands on the book called Memories of Ennistymon Creamery it’s almost a history of the local area

Shapey Fiend

Clare Co. Council have in the past not been particularly fantastic at preserving the character of villages and towns in the county. The bridge is always going to be a bottleneck regardless. When Ennistymon is trying to market itself to tourists as a town of traditional shop fronts knocking Blakes Corner is a bad idea.

99% of the time it's grand it's mostly a problem on hot days when half the county decide to go that things get jammed.

haybob

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Clare Co. Council have in the past not been particularly fantastic at preserving the character of villages and towns in the county. The bridge is always going to be a bottleneck regardless. When Ennistymon is trying to market itself to tourists as a town of traditional shop fronts knocking Blakes Corner is a bad idea.

99% of the time it's grand it's mostly a problem on hot days when half the county decide to go that things get jammed.

It isn't grand 99% of the time, what about the tour buses going to the cliffs of moher, up on a million people visit the cliffs of moher ever year, Ennistymon as a whole is not just a tourist town it has other economic value hindered by the junction.


I actually think this should be voted on in the next local election

Lady Chatterton

No work expected on Blake's Corner until 2015 :eek:

http://www.clarechampion.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=13224:no-work-on-blakes-corner-until-2015&catid=66:north&Itemid=56

fryup

Here we go again folks, more fun & games at Blakes corner:cool:

took me over an hour trying to get home from lahinch today....

its gettin beyond a joke now

Clareman

I can't understand the fascination with everyone piling back to Lahinch at the first sight of fine weather, there are some far nicer beaches in Clare that are far more accessible with nicer drives back to them, personally I like to head back to Spanish Point or the White Strand of places like that via Miltown, either that or back to Kilkee.

dmc17

Clareman wrote: »

I can't understand the fascination with everyone piling back to Lahinch at the first sight of fine weather, there are some far nicer beaches in Clare that are far more accessible with nicer drives back to them, personally I like to head back to Spanish Point or the White Strand of places like that via Miltown, either that or back to Kilkee.

Shhhhhhhh

colm_mcm

fryup wrote: »

Here we go again folks, more fun & games at Blakes corner:cool:

took me over an hour trying to get home from lahinch today....

its gettin beyond a joke now

You're doing it wrong. There are alternative scenic routes.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yes i know they are alternative routes and destinations, but try telling that to the poor tourists and esp the poor coach drivers who aren't clued up on the local roads

there's no getting away from the fact that Lahinch is by far the no 1 coastal destination in co clare ..with its growing reputation amongst the surfing fraternity throughtout europe...so isn't it about time someone in clare.co.co grasped the nettle by the hand and do something about that poxy junction, its an embarrassment in this day & age