The Gay Megathread (see mod note on post #2212)

Walkingleys

Has anyone heard of anyone from LBGT that has had a spiritual change and left that lifestyle and become Christian?

Benny_Cake

Walkingleys wrote: »

Has anyone heard of anyone from LBGT that has had a spiritual change and left that lifestyle and become Christian?

I'm never quite sure what people mean when they refer to being gay as a lifestyle, but I'm sure that there are gay people who have chosen to remain celibate. It's been speculated that Cardinal Newman was, Henri Nouwen too.

There are plenty of churches that welcome gay people without imposing any conditions upon them. The largest "gay church" in the world is in Texas, of all places.

Walkingleys

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I'm never quite sure what people mean when they refer to being gay as a lifestyle, but I'm sure that there are gay people who have chosen to remain celibate. It's been speculated that Cardinal Newman was, Henri Nouwen too.

There are plenty of churches that welcome gay people without imposing any conditions upon them. The largest "gay church" in the world is in Texas, of all places.

I am HIV positive, something that I picked up from my former promiscuous Gay lifestyle.I would also have been considered "out" with family and on the scene. I have no problem telling clergy of my condition and if there is any bigotry I would walk straight out of a church. I have turned Christian now and do believe that the Bible is the word of God and that Christ only is the way of salvation.

Ambersky

I also have a difficulty with the use of the term gay lifestyle. There is plenty of so called promiscuity among heterosexuals yet we don’t hear that called the heterosexual lifestyle. Instead we talk about heterosexuals who are promiscuous if we want to use that language. The same courtesy should be accorded to gay people.
You can choose to be celibate whether you are gay or straight but only heterosexuals can choose to have their monogamous loving relationships made official by getting married in either civil or religious celebrations here in Ireland.

Walkingleys I’m sure you know more than most, unprotected sex with anyone gay or straight who is HIV positive is a high risk activity and that’s one of the ways you can pick up HIV. Sexual transmission is also not the only way the virus is spread. The virus doesn’t care if you have only one sexual partner or many, if the conditions are right it will infect the person. The virus also doesn’t care if you are gay or straight.
People don’t deserve to get HIV, it’s not a punishment from God, or a signifier of a person’s morals, it’s a virus that is transferred under the right conditions and you can reduce your chances of contacting it by doing or not doing certain things. Arguments about whether there are more people worldwide HIV positive who are gay or straight is just getting into some kind of moral judgemental competitiveness about people who really need help, medical support understanding and education. A lack of understanding of how and why HIV is contacted and treated has lead to all kinds of unhelpful behaviours and attitudes.

Benny_Cake

Ambersky wrote: »

Walkingleys I’m sure you know more than most, unprotected sex with anyone gay or straight who is HIV positive is a high risk activity and that’s one of the ways you can pick up HIV. Sexual transmission is also not the only way the virus is spread. The virus doesn’t care if you have only one sexual partner or many, if the conditions are right it will infect the person. The virus also doesn’t care if you are gay or straight.
People don’t deserve to get HIV, it’s not a punishment from God, or a signifier of a person’s morals, it’s a virus that is transferred under the right conditions and you can reduce your chances of contacting it by doing or not doing certain things. Arguments about whether there are more people worldwide HIV positive who are gay or straight is just getting into some kind of moral judgemental competitiveness about people who really need help, medical support understanding and education. A lack of understanding of how and why HIV is contacted and treated has lead to all kinds of unhelpful behaviours and attitudes.

Agreed, I always hated the idea that HIV is some kind of moral judgemental from God, it turns God into some type of bungling serial killer.

Personally, I believe that same-sex couples should be able to get married. Churches should be able to opt out of providing for same-sex marriage if they wish. I do feel that telling people that they have to be celibate for the rest of their lives is putting an unfair burden on their shoulders, and that any couple who make a lifelong commitment to each other and form a family are a blessing to each other and to society at large. Of course, if someone opts for celibacy, that's their choice and I would hope that it's a choice that would be respected.

PopePalpatine

I wonder what the "HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God!"-types think of those who contracted it from a blood transfusion?

tommy2bad

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder what the "HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God!"-types think of those who contracted it from a blood transfusion?

Collateral damage?

aloyisious

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder what the "HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God!"-types think of those who contracted it from a blood transfusion?

Possibly/probably "you must have done something wrong sometime, for God to punish you so - everything happens for a reason". An example of "the greater plan" reasoning.

onemorechance

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Agreed, I always hated the idea that HIV is some kind of moral judgemental from God, it turns God into some type of bungling serial killer.

Personally, I believe that same-sex couples should be able to get married. Churches should be able to opt out of providing for same-sex marriage if they wish. I do feel that telling people that they have to be celibate for the rest of their lives is putting an unfair burden on their shoulders, and that any couple who make a lifelong commitment to each other and form a family are a blessing to each other and to society at large. Of course, if someone opts for celibacy, that's their choice and I would hope that it's a choice that would be respected.

There are plenty of examples of the God described in the Bible being a serial killer. The killing of the innocent children of slaves because of the actions of the Pharaoh is one of the worst.

It depicts Him as an ultra-zionist racist too!

Every firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sits on his throne to the firstborn of the female slave who is behind the handmill, and all the firstborn of the livestock.

Then there will be a loud cry throughout the whole land of Egypt, such as has never been or will ever be again.

But not a dog shall growl at any of the Israelites—not at people, not at animals—so that you may know that the Lord makes a distinction between Egypt and Israel.

Benny_Cake

onemorechance wrote: »

There are plenty of examples of the God described in the Bible being a serial killer. The killing of the innocent children of slaves because of the actions of the Pharaoh is one of the worst.

It depicts Him as an ultra-zionist racist too!

I think this is the thread you're looking for. Please don't drag this one off-topic.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057058320

onemorechance

Benny_Cake wrote: »

I think this is the thread you're looking for. Please don't drag this one off-topic.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057058320

You're the one who brought up the notion of God being a serial killer based on the idea that if HIV is some kind of moral judgemental from God.

I am simply pointing out that the God depicted in the Bible has in fact carried out mass murder in his judgements. It's excerts such as the mass killing of the Egyptians which facilitate those who believe HIV / AIDS is another one of Gods judgements.

tommy2bad

No Benny said He was a clumsy serial killer, your example is of a precise serial killer.
I think the whole aids is a judgment of God is such stupid idea anyway as then every disaster and illness becomes a judgment from God on whatever your not having yourself until you become the victim. Then it's a test I suppose.

Benny_Cake

tommy2bad wrote: »

No Benny said He was a clumsy serial killer, your example is of a precise serial killer.
I think the whole aids is a judgment of God is such stupid idea anyway as then every disaster and illness becomes a judgment from God on whatever your not having yourself until you become the victim. Then it's a test I suppose.

Exactly. HIV/AIDS is one of the greatest disasters to befall humanity in the 20th /21st century, but most of it's victims have been straight.

The advances in treatment have been truly incredible though. I read recently that a 20 year old starting anti-retroviral treatment can expect to live to an average age of 69. Consider where we were in the 1980s, that is real progress.

aloyisious

As Benny say's, with the treatment advances, there's an increased chance of longevity for those Hiv-infected (even withstanding the side-effects - which I only know of from those taking the Meds).

I wish that those LGBT people, and other at-risk people, would stop their habit of NOT using condoms when having sexual intercourse of any kind with other persons, ditto for those into bare-backing. The church is wrong about condoms.

Please stop allowing your personal habits give Hiv the chance to multiply and infect other, unknowing, people. Please stop Hiv in it's tracks and prevent it going into full-blown AIDS. If you're into drugs, use clean one-time-use needles and syringes, don't inflict Hiv-AIDS unto yourself or others.

Walkingleys

aloyisious wrote: »

As Benny say's, with the treatment advances, there's an increased chance of longevity for those Hiv-infected (even withstanding the side-effects - which I only know of from those taking the Meds).

Aging is my concern as I am over 50. Doctors tend to prescribe those over 50 on meds earlier and also before the CD4 count starts to drop which could take up to several years.

aloyisious wrote: »

I wish that those LGBT people, and other at-risk people, would stop their habit of NOT using condoms when having sexual intercourse of any kind with other persons, ditto for those into bare-backing. The church is wrong about condoms.

Please stop allowing your personal habits give Hiv the chance to multiply and infect other, unknowing, people. Please stop Hiv in it's tracks and prevent it going into full-blown AIDS. If you're into drugs, use clean one-time-use needles and syringes, don't inflict Hiv-AIDS unto yourself or others.

Its easy to say this but try telling this to those in the Boiler House or Dock after the clubs have closed with many off their heads on drink / drugs. Also I would agree that the use and sale of Poppers should be banned in these places.

I have come across BB parties advertised on certain websites, grant it many had their HIV POZ status disclosed but there were others foolishly advertising on this site for "NEG" only BB sex.


Someone has a less chance of catching HIV off a person who is HIV positive on medication with an "undetectable" count than someone who calls himself "Neg", ie someone who is more or less not tested for several months or even years.

And yes I certainly recommend the use of Condoms after what I have gone through. Complacency plays a big part, people think that just because they have not contacted it after playing about for 10 years as in my case, they think they are immune, this is foolishness, the day will eventually catch up on you.

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder what the "HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God!"-types think of those who contracted it from a blood transfusion?

I took contacting HIV as a wake up call and not as a punishment from God, It was also something brought on by myself and I can only blame myself and not God.

aloyisious

The protests go on in St Petersburg, though with heavy policing.

JimiTime

Walkingleys wrote: »

I have turned Christian now and do believe that the Bible is the word of God and that Christ only is the way of salvation.

Do you now believe that having sex with members of the same gender is sinful, or do you believe that such a practice is ok in Gods sight and compatible with following Christ?

Walkingleys

JimiTime wrote: »

Do you now believe that having sex with members of the same gender is sinful, or do you believe that such a practice is ok in Gods sight and compatible with following Christ?

Yes I would now regard same sex activity between consenting adults as against Gods plan and sinful.

It was a challenge for me initially but having HIV helped as many of my former partners (F Buds) would stay clear of me anyway, this helped me against the temptation. I am now under the obligation to tell partners of my HIV status even if "playing safe" as accidents can happen and have in the past.

I would not pigeon hole GLBT to be worse sin offenders than others that are non believers.

aloyisious

For info of those interested/wanting to attend, next Monday Night at 7 PM, LGBT Noise and TENI will be holding a "Solidarity" meeting event at The OutHouse on Capel St.

JimiTime

Walkingleys wrote: »

Yes I would now regard same sex activity between consenting adults as against Gods plan and sinful.

Thanks for answering.

It was a challenge for me initially but having HIV helped as many of my former partners (F Buds) would stay clear of me anyway, this helped me against the temptation. I am now under the obligation to tell partners of my HIV status even if "playing safe" as accidents can happen and have in the past.

Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'f buds' mean?

I would not pigeon hole GLBT to be worse sin offenders than others that are non believers.

Can't argue with you there. The wages of sin is death, and whatever our particular rebellion is, it brings us to the same point. I don't think the issue for LGBT people is that their sins are worse than others, but rather the great number who believe that they are not sinning. I know from the perspective of my own sins, its like a spiritual battlefield. If I didn't recognise my sin as sin, it would be like my enemy winning the war by taking me over from the inside. I would simply sleepwalk into my destruction.
Anyway, many blessings to you in your walk with Christ.
You may find this open letter by a lesbian woman to the Church interesting. A woman dealing with temptation, but also explaining how the church has failed her and other LGBT's, and how Christians who try to affirm homosexual behaviour also greatly fail her by 'giving no hope at all'. I found it a good read, and a great insight into the plight of many same sex attracted people within the church.

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2013/03/21/an-open-letter-to-the-church-from-a-lesbian/

Walkingleys

JimiTime wrote: »

Thanks for answering.


Pardon my ignorance, but what does 'f buds' mean?

Its a derogatory term.

Fcuk buds are usually referred to as sex contacts that one accumulated over time. Not every one in the gay community would have them. Many just have a monogamous relationship. My former BF lived in Holland but because of distance and timing involved in getting together we both agreed on an open relationships between us. This was obviously more risky as we would have both have had several contacts.

Some of my former sex contacts have now developed into good mates to this day. One in particular worked with the red ribbon project and helped me through with counseling when I was diagnosed HIV Positive.

JimiTime

Walkingleys wrote: »

Its a derogatory term.

Fcuk buds are usually referred to as sex contacts that one accumulated over time. Not every one in the gay community would have them. Many just have a monogamous relationship. My former BF lived in Holland but because of distance and timing involved in getting together we both agreed on an open relationships between us. This was obviously more risky as we would have both have had several contacts.

Some of my former sex contacts have now developed into good mates to this day. One in particular worked with the red ribbon project and helped me through with counseling when I was diagnosed HIV Positive.

Thanks for the explanation. If I may probe further again, but how are you finding other Christians in terms of how they treat you? Are you being met with Christian love in your opinion? Or are you finding an attitude that outcasts you? Or have you come across both? Have you got any advice to give to a struggling Christian like myself, on how to better reach out to LGBT people with the gospel? Is there something specifically that brought YOU to Christ?

mbiking123

'Almost every man alive can trace his origins to one man who lived about 135,000 years ago, new research suggests. And that ancient man likely shared the planet with the mother of all women.
The findings, detailed today (Aug. 1) in the journal Science, come from the most complete analysis of the male sex chromosome, or the Y chromosome, to date. The results overturn earlier research, which suggested that men's most recent common ancestor lived just 50,000 to 60,000 years ago.
Despite their overlap in time, ancient "Adam" and ancient "Eve" probably didn't even live near each other, let alone mate. URL="http://www.livescience.com/12937-10-mysteries-humans-evolution.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]The 10 Biggest Mysteries of the First Humans[/COLOR][/URL '

http://www.livescience.com/38613-genetic-adam-and-eve-uncovered.html

Basically in my own view at one time we were like fish, our sex changed. One year male, next year female

By the way I am currently barred from another discussion for being anti-abortion

Not saying gay is normal , but I can understand how it can happen. its just genetic. Its in us to change sex, just does not happen anymore

That is why I believe we can explain the adam and eve thing

Oh on the religious thing can I say I would prefer a gay couple to adopt a child rather than see that child being killed via an abortion !

aloyisious

Meanwhile on the Russian Front (according to posters on poles around Henry St) there's a protest at the Spire on Tuesday next, 22nd at 5.30 PM in support of the Pussy Riot activists and Russian LGBT Community. Contact details given are at facebook.com/rosawomen2013, or www.rosa.ie, or 087.6418519.

Journa

can this be used as a gay noticeboard and news, i have some meeting notices as well

aloyisious

Journa wrote: »

can this be used as a gay noticeboard and news, i have some meeting notices as well

I'm not sure, I was taking a chance posting about the "Putin Protest" at the Spire up here. It's over to the Mods on this one.

Benny_Cake

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm not sure, I was taking a chance posting about the "Putin Protest" at the Spire up here. It's over to the Mods on this one.

I'd be of the view that we probably should keep this thread for discussion for the most part rather than treating it as a noticeboard. Exceptions would be where the event related specifically to homosexuality and Christianity, eg; talks organised by churches or groups such as Changing Attitude Ireland.

seminarian

aloyisious wrote: »

Meanwhile on the Russian Front (according to posters on poles around Henry St) there's a protest at the Spire on Tuesday next, 22nd at 5.30 PM in support of the Pussy Riot activists and Russian LGBT Community. Contact details given are at facebook.com/rosawomen2013, or www.rosa.ie, or 087.6418519.

What exactly is the Putin law? propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors.. Russia has not banned being gay. You can still be gay there if you want. You won't be imprisioned or executed (like in many Muslim Countries)


working on London I saw the Soho parade this year, it was pretty explicit at times. Gay men practically naked in leather thong ass exposed. Thats fine, their life. I would NOT bring a child to watch a gay parade. Extreme fetishes on display, no thanks.

So if you examine the Russian law carefully I see no problem with it.

Sonics2k

seminarian wrote: »

What exactly is the Putin law? propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors.. Russia has not banned being gay. You can still be gay there if you want. You won't be imprisioned or executed (like in many Muslim Countries)

Russia has banned anything that promotes homosexuality to anyone under the age of 18. This includes any support for gay teens in a country with a massive surge in violence toward homosexuals.
Despite all these videos and photos of grown man and women beating, abusing and torturing gay people, the police have done nothing to protect these people or arrest the abusers.

That is the problem with this law. It has caused a living hell for innocent people.

working on London I saw the Soho parade this year, it was pretty explicit at times. Gay men practically naked in leather thong ass exposed. Thats fine, their life. I would NOT bring a child to watch a gay parade. Extreme fetishes on display, no thanks.

So if you examine the Russian law carefully I see no problem with it.

So do you also not take your children to the beach? No trips to Spain or anything?
I've been to hundreds of beaches and I saw thousands of women in very tight, very small amounts of lucrative that barely covered the most private of parts. I've seen men in things and speedos strutting around with no shame.

Here's the difference between a gay pride parade and the beach.
One happens on the beach and is socially acceptable, the other features people in the city.

28064212

seminarian wrote: »

What exactly is the Putin law? propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors.. Russia has not banned being gay. You can still be gay there if you want. You won't be imprisioned or executed (like in many Muslim Countries)

The LGBT laws in Russia means that:

1. no support groups can provide support to minors who are gay (which, given the rampant homophobia, is absolutely horrendous)
2. a judge can rule two men holding hands in sight of minors is "propaganda"
3. any public event which even acknowledges the existence of gay people must be over 18
4. you can be fired purely for being gay
5. you can be refused service purely for being gay

seminarian wrote: »

So if you examine the Russian law carefully I see no problem with it.

That is not remotely surprising