Rape Victim facing fine for naming victims

Biggins

humbert wrote: »

It was established from the outset that she broke the law?

If a judge court ordered that all names were to remain confidential, then yes, sadly she did break the law.
Thats always been the case when it comes to defying any judges court orders.

Was she morally justified, maybe so!
Was she legally justified in this case? It looks not.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

So what does being passed out and taken advantage of have to do with any kind of "blame" on the victim?

Put it this way:

Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

Killer Wench

titan18 wrote: »

They haven't been sentenced yet. They pled guilty to first-degree sexual abuse and misdemeanor voyeurism. I presume they had to cos of evidence and they hope to get off with a smaller punishment. As it's still an ongoing case, the judge rightly told the girl to not speak about it, and as it's a juvenile case, it holds more weight.

The girl says she can't say what the plea deal punishment was because of a court order it seems, but decided to break the other aspects of that order.

That's all I can gather about it so far.

I forget the exact number but it is roughly 90% of all criminal cases end with a plea agreement. The judge still holds the power to accept or reject the agreement at this point. The point is that she really jumped the gun and went outside of court to "seek justice" when the wheels of justice had not fully stopped.

humbert

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

... again, if so (and i would agree with you if that's the case) then why aren't this guys getting a much stiffer penalty?

I don't know but they have been found guilty of a crime of a sexual nature.

I don't know what acts occurred but blacking out at a house party in no way makes you responsible for a couple of guys sexually molesting you in any way, at all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

wasn't attacking your or anything was just... puzzled

iirc the footballer rape story of a few months ago where a footballer and a friend brought some drunk girl back to their hotel room and let somebody else have sex with her.. i dunno, dont remember much about it.. I just remember the 5000 page after hours thread and the war of words therein.

Yeah, I know, just a pit puzzled here too. This is AH, and you remember me specifcially for blaming?!

mauzo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Put it this way:

Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

Eh sorry I think youre missing the point.

Getting drunk, passing out and BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED is entirely different to what youre talking about!!!!!!!

Killer Wench

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Once they plead guilty and the court case has finished it should be up to her to tell who she likes!

The point is that the case wasn't finished. The plea agreement hadn't been accepted or rejected by the judge.

He could have said: "Oh hell noes, y'all. This sh*t is too lenient!" but she took the power away from the court to make that decision.

Tombi!

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Put it this way:

Supposing you go to a party, get pissed, black out. A photo of you shows up on the internet the next day, your boss sees it, fires you. Who's fault is it?

Supposing you go to a party, get drunk, black out at the wheel of a car and drive it into a bus full of kids. Are you responsible?

People use the "I was drunk" excuse far too much. not sayign this was the case here, but do people force drink down teenager's troaths at parties these days?

If the photo was of me passed out, my own fault.
If the photo was of me after some people drew me or something, they're at fault, not me.

Is it the girl's fault she passed out? More than likely, yes.
Is it her fault in any way someone else took advantage? No, of course not.

Considering there were two guys, I'd wager they're both at fault.

Most notably is because they already plead guilty. Hopefully the judge won't take into account that he was "her fault" the two guys assaulted her.

titan18

Killer Wench wrote: »

I forget the exact number but it is roughly 90% of all criminal cases end with a plea agreement. The judge still holds the power to accept or reject the agreement at this point. The point is that she really jumped the gun and went outside of court to "seek justice" when the wheels of justice had not fully stopped.

Yup, seems that way from the information provided about it. Seems like a stupid person to do it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

syndeyfife wrote: »

Eh sorry I think youre missing the point.



Getting drunk, passing out and BEING SEXUALLY ASSAULTED is entirely different to what youre talking about!!!!!!!

We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EDIT - see Brutal Deluxe's post above.

mauzo

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So youre saying that if you pass out youre fair game for anything?!?

titan18

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

There's two issues here, I've dealt with the first.

Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah, only if they get raped it seems.

PrincessLola

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We're not talking the responsibility of a person who gets drunk and passes out...?

What is going on? Are we still talking about a sexual assault, right?

Killer Wench

Keep in mind, that each of the 50 states has its own statutes and within those statutes, it will define the offense in question. This case took place in Kentucky and this is how sexual abuse in the first degree is defined:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/110.PDF

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

syndeyfife wrote: »

So youre saying that if you pass out youre fair game for anything?!?

Any chance you could not begin your posts with "so youre saying"[sic]?

My post reads as it was posted. It was very clear. Don't intentionally misconstrue it.

PrincessLola

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Any chance you could not begin your posts with "so youre saying"[sic]?

My post reads as it was posted. It was very clear. Don't intentionally misconstrue it.

But it is not very clear. Its *sounds* like you're saying the victim is at fault for passing out?

childsplay

I just don't think it's right that anybody should post photographs of anybody else anywhere without that persons permission.

If I want my photo on, say, F. book, I can put it there myself. Also, there's the issue of my right to privacy. If I do go out, have a few too many, do something stupid then why does anybody have the right to put images of me up in the public domain.

Posting photos of me in a vulnerable state is even worse. Help me, don't humiliate me further.

Posting images of me being assaulted, that's a massive no no.

I agree that being drunk is no excuse for a lot of things. People need to learn to take personal responsibility. However, being drunk doesn't make it okay for somebody to hurt, assault and injure me.

childsplay

I just don't think it's right that anybody should post photographs of anybody else anywhere without that persons permission.

If I want my photo on, say, F. book, I can put it there myself. Also, there's the issue of my right to privacy. If I do go out, have a few too many, do something stupid then why does anybody have the right to put images of me up in the public domain.

Posting photos of me in a vulnerable state is even worse. Help me, don't humiliate me further.

Posting images of me being assaulted, that's a massive no no.

I agree that being drunk is no excuse for a lot of things. People need to learn to take personal responsibility. However, being drunk doesn't make it okay for somebody to hurt, assault and injure me.

Chuck Stone

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Or, to take your line, are you sayign that PEOPLE GEETING BLACKOUT DRUNK shhould have a get out of jail free card for whatever happens next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

They're not 'in prison' in the first place so why would they need a 'get out of jail free card'?

humbert

Killer Wench wrote: »

Keep in mind, that each of the 50 states has its own statutes and within those statutes, it will define the offense in question. This case took place in Kentucky and this is how sexual abuse in the first degree is defined:

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/510-00/110.PDF

That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

PrincessLola wrote: »

But it is not very clear. Its *sounds* like you're saying the victim is at fault for passing out?

It is. I asked a very simple question, not specific to this case: should someone who blacks out drunk not have to bear the consequences? I really, really, can not make it clearer than that and I really really can not see who people think this is absolving the two men! Unless this is what you WANT to read.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They're not 'in prison' in the first place so why would they need a 'get out of jail free card'?

Rhetorical question. See above.

Killer Wench

humbert wrote: »

That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?

510.110 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
(1) A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when:
(a) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact by forcible compulsion; or
(b) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact who is incapable of consent because he or she:
1. Is physically helpless;
2. Is less than twelve (12) years old; or
3. Is mentally incapacitated; or

Biggins

I think this thread is going way off track.

The fact is that she went against the judges orders.
Thats why she is now being held accountable.

* I support her right to see that her attackers are exposed.
* I support her right to freedom of expression.
* I support her right to see that she gain some dignity back and that the culprits are held to full account of their actions.
* I don't support her right though to break the law in this case - a law that is often there lets not forget, to also protect other victims - and defy a judge before he can even complete his job, with the guilty, as in this case.

Had she exposed their names when the case was over - I'd stand behind her and defend her wholeheartedly under the circumstances, surrounding her particular case.

As it is, she did herself no favours sadly by 'jumping the gun'.

humbert

Killer Wench wrote: »

510.110 Sexual abuse in the first degree.
(1) A person is guilty of sexual abuse in the first degree when:
(a) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact by forcible compulsion; or
(b) He or she subjects another person to sexual contact who is incapable of consent because he or she:
1. Is physically helpless;
2. Is less than twelve (12) years old; or
3. Is mentally incapacitated; or

I read the pdf but it ends by saying that it is a 'Class D felony' and after googling that it seems to demand 3/5 - ~10 years in gaol, depending on which site you read (presume it varies by state).

That is hardly a slap on the wrist.

childsplay

Ikky Poo2, are you trying to point out that being drunk is something that people can choose to become or not? If I choose to get drunk then THAT'S my own business and if I do something dumb as a result, I am ultimately responsible for my own actions. However, being drunk shouldn't make me a target or excuse others from causing me harm.
That's what I am getting from your posts anyway.

Boombastic

humbert wrote: »

That seems to be a mandatory prison sentence?

From what I gather it's a class D felony, hence the punishment would be:


Class D Felony Sentences

The sentence for Class D felony offenses is determined by the court but will not less than two years or be more than 7 years. The minimum and maximum sentence for felony offenses can be enhanced for any crime of a violent nature or one with aggravated circumstances, and reduced for mitigating circumstances. When determining a sentence the court takes into account the nature of the crime and the character and history of the offender. Juvenile offenders face up to four years imprisonment for Class D felonies

Killer Wench

And if the judge accepts the plea agreement, this is what they will have to deal with:

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/sor.htm


http://kspsor.state.ky.us/


Go ahead and plug in a city on the search.

Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.

Giselle

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It is. I asked a very simple question, not specific to this case: should someone who blacks out drunk not have to bear the consequences?.

The consequences of what?

Does a person who's blacked out drunk not have a right NOT to be assaulted?

Or does the fact that they're drunk mean there's some sort of contributory negligence on their part? How does being drunk make you responsible for the actions of your assailants?

I don't see how being victimised while incapacitated makes you responsible for anything.

humbert

Deleted User wrote: »

Voyeurism as part of the main charge? Really doesn't sound like she was raped. Stupid drunk photos with hands on tits or something which they put online.

They don't just pick the best one and ignore the rest.