Anti-Irish Racism in Britain

partyguinness

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I have been living in Brum for 2 years and I have never come across any form of racism. To be honest I have pulled my mother in law up on some Irish jokes but she is mild "Little Englander".

99.9% of the English I deal with are lovely.

I think the author is mistaken in saying the "return". Anti-Irish sentiment will always be there but I believe that it only evident among what I call "Little Englanders".

My definition of Little Englander (Sun/Daily Mail reading, larger drinking, overweight, jingoist, racist, homophobic, sexist, deep distrust of anything 'foreign' and thick as two short planks ignorant lout...just think of your stereotypical forotball lout).

Now that I think of it, that could be a Dublin taxi driver...:D

To be honest they hate everyone so I would take no notice of them. I think the author needs to socialise in better circles.

He is right in saying there is a disconnect with the older generation. I have been to Irish pubs etc and I might as well be in Siberia. It doesnt help that I work in what is deemed a "professional" job.

In other words I am not an employed tradesman from the Midlands/Border counties and I didnt move over for work so I have virtually nothing in common with the Irish I meet over here.

Any experiences?

youreadthis

partyguinness wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I have been living in Brum for 2 years and I have never come across any form of racism. To be honest I have pulled my mother in law up on some Irish jokes but she is mild "Little Englander".

99.9% of the English I deal with are lovely.

I think the author is mistaken in saying the "return". Anti-Irish sentiment will always be there but I believe that it only evident among what I call "Little Englanders".

My definition of Little Englander (Sun/Daily Mail reading, larger drinking, overweight, jingoist, racist, homophobic, sexist, deep distrust of anything 'foreign' and thick as two short planks ignorant lout...just think of your stereotypical forotball lout).

Little Englander is a term used by lazy people to describe anyone English who is skeptical of the EU. What you just described is a lot of different types of people.

partyguinness

youreadthis wrote: »

Little Englander is a term used by lazy people to describe anyone English who is skeptical of the EU. What you just described is a lot of different types of people.

I know plenty of English people who are skeptical about the EU and are not what I deem Little Englanders. The word skeptical implies a certain level of reasoned or rational debate.

I am referring to the jingoistic ignorant anti-foreigner (as opposed to EU) yobs that the author has come across.

As for "Lazy People"....right..:rolleyes:

djpbarry

partyguinness wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I was going to start a thread when I saw that article, but then to be honest, I thought it wasn't worth it. The author clearly has an agenda.

For example, notice that the title refers to Britain, but the article itself makes no reference to anywhere other than England. Kind of ironic given the one place in Britain you are almost certain to (eventually) experience anti-Irish sentiment is Glasgow.

It's tabloid journalism. The author is using examples of extremists to justify their own pre-conceived notion that Irish people have a hard time of it when they go abroad. But, thankfully, the days of every Irish person being considered a suspect terrorist are long gone.

All I can say to Mr. Whelan is, try being non-white for a day.

Personally, I've only experienced one instance of racism in all the time I've spent in the UK and that involved a drunken squaddie in a pub. Unfortunately, my British missus experienced anti-Englishness (even though she's not actually English, not that it matters) on a far more regular basis in Ireland.

who the fug

djpbarry

They guy what wrote it is based in London he is the guy whose block of flats the missile where being placed on , early in the summer

I agree it is a non story, and he should know better

After 25 years here the only abuse I have got is from drunken sweaties behind a bar, and a plastic paddy.

questionmark?

Generally it isnt that bad and the vast majority of english people quite like the Irish.

Setting aside the usual "say thirty three" I haven't experienced much. I did get accustomed once by a guy in a pub who said he fought in the north as if I was to blame for his hardship. I reminded him that the North is part of the UK and when he was there the people he was fighting were UK born citizens so maybe stop blaming foreigners like me for yer problems. The lad didn't know what to say and walked away.

On another note I was told told f**k off you white english c*nt by a somebody with a Jamican accent drinking a bottle of Guinness Extra Stout He was a hobo/junkie so I let it go:D

Sound of Silence

If the Daily Mail was our cultural barometer for all things British, then I wouldn't blame the author for thinking that there was a certain level of Anti-Irishness afoot in the UK.

djpbarry

questionmark? wrote: »

Setting aside the usual "say thirty three"...

The what now?

questionmark? wrote: »

I did get accustomed once by a guy in a pub who said he fought in the north as if I was to blame for his hardship. I reminded him that the North is part of the UK and when he was there the people he was fighting were UK born citizens so maybe stop blaming foreigners like me for yer problems.

I would advise others against such a course of action, as it's likely to land them in A&E.

questionmark?

djpbarry wrote: »

The what now?

You haven't actually been asked this? Say thirty three. Irish people don't pronounce the "h" in words such as thought, three, thirty three, thinking etc... I have had loads of people say this to me and generally people like this as it portrays the Irish accent that so many like. I have never had it asked as an insult but rather a compliment.

I would advise others against such a course of action, as it's likely to land them in A&E.

Either would I but I was in a bad mood and I'm more than capable of looking after myself but was merely my example of what I have experienced.

I may add that 99.99999999% of what I have experienced from English people is positive and most don't even see us Irish as "foreigners"

r3nu4l

In 8 years living in East Anglia, I've only experienced three instances. The first was from three squaddie-types outside a bar who heard my accent while I was passing them by and suited aggressively at me '**** off home Paddy' and then another two references to 'Paddy' that were aggressive in tone but not frightening in any way. I did have a member of the BNP in Cambridge tell me that I wasn't really foreign as we shared the same blood...

I decided against telling him what I thought of that. :pac:

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

golden lane

r3nu4l wrote: »

In 8 years living in East Anglia, I've only experienced three instances. The first was from three squaddie-types outside a bar who heard my accent while I was passing them by and suited aggressively at me '**** off home Paddy' and then another two references to 'Paddy' that were aggressive in tone but not frightening in any way. I did have a member of the BNP in Cambridge tell me that I wasn't really foreign as we shared the same blood...

I decided against telling him what I thought of that. :pac:

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

i lived just outside cambridge for 33 years.......i foud that area was the least anti irish in the whole uk.....

i have worked and stayed in most of the uk.......not a lot of hatred showing anywhere really.....

so after 52 years in the uk......i give it 10 out of 10......

djpbarry

questionmark? wrote: »

You haven't actually been asked this? Say thirty three.

I'm genuinely puzzled - not only have I never been asked, I don't know anyone else who has every been asked (as far as I am aware).

But then again, I speak English properly.

The Irish aren't a race.

r3nu4l

rarnes1 wrote: »

The Irish aren't a race.

Ah bless, pedantry. I'm sure you know what people mean but just in case, just for you so that you understand the intent of the thread, people are referring to anti-Irish sentiment and anti-Irish bigotry. I hope this clears up any confusion for you.

@golden lane. I'm sure we know many of the same places so The incident with the squaddies was on Mill Road in Cambridge, near the Romsey town end; a place I lived for three years. It was the only incident of it's sort I ever encountered on Mill Road (despite the reputation Mill Road [undeservedly imo] has). East Anglia is a great place to live, particularly Cambridge and I wouldn't let those instances put anyone off visiting or living there. I've encountered thousands of people during my 8 years here and I'm not worried about three petty incidents but the question was asked and I've answered.

Do I think anti-Irish racism, oops, I mean bigotry or sentiment, is on the rise? No. Do I think there will always be idiots out there who hate other people because of where they are from,the colour of the skin, their religion or lack thereof? Yes.

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

But then again, I speak English properly.

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

OP: You'll find their ilk in every country. Uneducated troglodytes aren't unique to England.

BQQ

golden lane wrote: »

i lived just outside cambridge for 33 years.......i foud that area was the least anti irish in the whole uk.....

i have worked and stayed in most of the uk.......not a lot of hatred showing anywhere really.....

so after 52 years in the uk......i give it 10 out of 10......

Surely 10 out of 10 should be reserved for "No hatred" rather than "not a lot of hatred".

questionmark?

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm genuinely puzzled - not only have I never been asked, I don't know anyone else who has every been asked (as far as I am aware).

But then again, I speak English properly.

r3nu4l wrote: »

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

.

havetoquit

So agree with all those sentiments and I can also say that having lived in a number of European countries, the times I lived in various parts of the UK were among my happiest. It very much depends on yourself and the kind of person you are, as to how others perceive you in my own humble opinion. I was made so very welcome among the English Scots and Welsh and in many cases made to feel so inclusive as to be one of them. The types of bigotry spoken about at the beginning of the thread is something I have never been presented with, but am acutely aware that it can indeed be found in most countries among a certain type of individuals and that includes our own country. I always tend to distance myself from these types and the places they are most likely to frequent and if you do the same you will feel very at home. I found that fully integrating socially and not just keeping to Irish pubs and suchlike was the best way of really getting to know a people and to becoming easily and quickly accepted as an equal and why not? We have so much in common and our traditions compliment each other. So many of our people have made such good lives in Britain and have chosen to remain there. The only ones you will hear complaining are generally those who do likewise at home. Just as my dear uncle used to relate to me regarding some of the Irish he met when he emigrated in the 50's; he said that there were those who would drink every penny they earned and then sing their sad songs and cry into their beers about wanting to go home, when in fact those same guys never did go back and preferred to spend their hard earned money on drink. Many is the man that received a letter delivering news of one of his parent's passing and still did not bother to go home for the funeral. Believe me this is true and I have spoken to many families here who bear this out. So I guess it takes all kinds and if we go out to any country with an open mind devoid of any preconceived ideas we will be fine. I wish the initial poster the best of luck wherever he intends to settle.

golden lane

BQQ wrote: »

Surely 10 out of 10 should be reserved for "No hatred" rather than "not a lot of hatred".

no, you cannot have no hatred......there would be no sports...

pompeyboi

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

no, you cannot have no hatred......there would be no sports...

or jokes....

golden lane

pompeyboi wrote: »

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

agreed......

My own experiences of living in Ireland as a plastic paddy would be similar to my experience of paddy bashing in London(were only joking), its intolerance and ignorance that can be found in other races and cultures that i'v experienced growing up in Brent the most multicultural area in London. Personally I hate the racism I come across here because as a nation we have had more than our fair share and I hoped their would be more understanding.

A point my father made was he felt the English were very tolerant back in the day because he thought if bombs were going off in Roscommon the response would be different, from my own experiences there was very little anti Irish sentiment from my British Gas colleagues after the Bishopesgate Bome( which I would of been standing against if it went off the day before) we had to make safe buildings for rescue workers and help look for bodies, most people I talked to at the time could tell the difference between a terrorist and non terrorists thankfully.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

My own experiences of living in Ireland as a plastic paddy would be similar to my experience of paddy bashing in London(were only joking), its intolerance and ignorance that can be found in other races and cultures that i'v experienced growing up in Brent the most multicultural area in London. Personally I hate the racism I come across here because as a nation we have had more than our fair share and I hoped their would be more understanding.

A point my father made was he felt the English were very tolerant back in the day because he thought if bombs were going off in Roscommon the response would be different, from my own experiences there was very little anti Irish sentiment from my British Gas colleagues after the Bishopesgate Bome( which I would of been standing against if it went off the day before) we had to make safe buildings for rescue workers and help look for bodies, most people I talked to at the time could tell the difference between a terrorist and non terrorists thankfully.

i drove past that lorry at ten to nine that morning........i arrived at the cafe across the square just after the blast......my dub accent was not the centre of any hatred......

avalon68

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

OP: You'll find their ilk in every country. Uneducated troglodytes aren't unique to England.

We do? I distinctly remember learning to pronounce my " th" in school.....

pompeyboi

pompeyboi wrote: »

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

golden lane wrote: »

agreed......

Not with you on that, Back in the day Biddys and the National were targeted and smashed up for being Irish hang outs and modern day you have gangs around Harlesden and Willesden in London targeting prodomuntaly Irish including my father who was hit on the head with a baseball bat, now admittedly these are people leaving Irish pubs but it's still pubs of choice( it seems)

guitarzero

Did anyone ask them about the small issue of the british here? Would be good to compare the impact of both parties.

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

i drove past that lorry at ten to nine that morning........i arrived at the cafe across the square just after the blast......my dub accent was not the centre of any hatred......

I missed the Wembly bome by a couple of minutes, my Aunty was dating the sergeant who was shot in Hendon and a Bome went up beside my dads pub in Harlesden, I remember a lot of people being scared but very little hatred, tolerance is a beautiful thing.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

Not with you on that, Back in the day Biddys and the National were targeted and smashed up for being Irish hang outs and modern day you have gangs around Harlesden and Willesden in London targeting prodomuntaly Irish including my father who was hit on the head with a baseball bat, now admittedly these are people leaving Irish pubs but it's still pubs of choice( it seems)

i don't class a few yobs in every big city, as a country that is racist.....

sorry to hear about the attacks.....

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

i don't class a few yobs in every big city, as a country that is racist.....

sorry to hear about the attacks.....

I agree, the point I'm making albeit badly is I find people the same no matter the country of origin, do you say "some"people are intolerant of other nationalities because of their country of origin or is it just because their different, if it's another country than racism can be attached to that intolerance but I find the same intolerance between "some" townsfolk and countryfolk same thing but not racism, my own cousin calls anyone from outside Athlone a muck savage which isn't a term of indearment.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

I agree, the point I'm making albeit badly is I find people the same no matter the country of origin, do you say "some"people are intolerant of other nationalities because of their country of origin or is it just because their different, if it's another country than racism can be attached to that intolerance but I find the same intolerance between "some" townsfolk and countryfolk same thing but not racism, my own cousin calls anyone from outside Athlone a muck savage which isn't a term of indearment.

these so called yobs/racists......would attack anybody they see as different to them.....country of origion is just easy to distinguish.....they are in every country...

the only time i was personally racially abused...was in a hotel bar in east belfast.....

purely on my accent....i was told in a not very nice and hatefull manner....

you wont ever get the six counties back, you fenian bastard....no surrender to you fenian bastards.....now go back from where you came from you fenian bastard.....

lucky there were a few ruc men who were regular drinkers there.....they got him and his friends out.....

i must have recieved a thousand opoligies from everybody in the hotel for the next week....

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

these so called yobs/racists......would attack anybody they see as different to them.....country of origion is just easy to distinguish.....they are in every country...

the only time i was personally racially abused...was in a hotel bar in east belfast.....

purely on my accent....i was told in a not very nice and hatefull manner....

you wont ever get the six counties back, you fenian bastard....no surrender to you fenian bastards.....now go back from where you came from you fenian bastard.....

lucky there were a few ruc men who were regular drinkers there.....they got him and his friends out.....

i must have recieved a thousand opoligies from everybody in the hotel for the next week....

I had a similar experience in Donegal on a family holiday where I got a few slaps for my accent till I remembered where my legs were and I had a bucket of the smelly stuff thrown at my head by a customer in Mountmellic who had anger management issues mixed with a dislike for Londoners.

I'v been coming to Ireland for over 40 years and living here for ten and I'd have to admit my negative experiences don't match up to my positive ones and the paddy bashing in London i witnessed wasnt commonplace, so I'll stop bitching.

UKJon

I like to think most this side of the water have deep affection for the Irish. We mostly like to see the Irish Soccer team do well. There is a reason why the likes of Wogan and Norton have been so popular.

You'll always get a few morons who don't understand history and can't move on. But you must remember a large amount of us have got at least one Irish grandparent or parent.

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English.

No, I’m pretty sure I speak English. Especially when I’m in England.

pompeyboi

UKJon wrote: »

I like to think most this side of the water have deep affection for the Irish. We mostly like to see the Irish Soccer team do well. There is a reason why the likes of Wogan and Norton have been so popular.

You'll always get a few morons who don't understand history and can't move on. But you must remember a large amount of us have got at least one Irish grandparent or parent.

Thats true! Whenever Ireland are playin in football, the english want em to win. but with the irish, they want england to loose. its so pathetic. England loves Ireland but Ireland hate England. most people in Ireland do have an underlying hatred of the English and its just ridiculous.

super_furry

I think English people in Ireland would come in for more abuse - both serious and joking - than Irish people would in England.

havetoquit

Here here...great point and you know what? We are on this darn planet for such a short time, that it is time we all learned to embrace ( not literally!) our fellow human being and try to be more tolerant. As far as the racists and bigots go, I feel genuinely sorry for such people as they are mostly angry with life, with themselves and often do not even realize or are not aware of the impact of their comments. Those of us who know that true patriotism does not include racist remarks or living in the past are not troubled in this way and so if we do come up against such individuals we have the grace, dignity and enough self confidence to raise above it and not grant it the benefit of a response. When one walks away unperturbed from such people, it ps them off and they perhaps even learn something. My great English friends are the first to say that the Irish have made an incredible contribution to their country in so many ways and in every walk of life. We should be very proud of that and also be glad that when our own country cannot provide work that the door has never been closed on us in the UK and never will be. I lived there during the bombings and found the level of tolerance among the public to be of the highest level and I respected them enormously for that. Those who perpetrate violence against innocent people in the street are guilty of the most horrific crimes against a blameless public who are not responsible for our past and simply want no more than to go about their work. How would the Germans react were the Jewish people from around Europe to start bombing the innocent public who were not even born during the holocaust, let alone responsible for it? Many Germans and indeed British feel inward shame and disgust for the injustice and horrid crimes that were carried out against innocent defenseless people in the past and they do not deserve to be hated or discriminated against as they sometimes are. So I guess, this racism/bigotry will always be around, but we who have the ability to raise above it, will never allow it to impact upon us. We all have skeletons of some kind in our cupoards and so are not so entirely as blameless as we like to think we are.

Latchy

super_furry wrote: »

I think English people in Ireland would come in for more abuse - both serious and joking - than Irish people would in England.

I think so to ,if only because of 20 odd years living in England and finding that the same old anti English comments/remarks are still alive and kicking in Ireland and usually in the main ,spat out by ignorant people who have an agenda of sorts that is so outdated and rely on stereotypes of the English .

havetoquit

Yes and again this no doubt comes from ignorant individuals who do not even know the statistics; The majority of British people living here are contributing to our economy, coming either as retired people, working for Irish or Multinationals, self employed or in some other employment. They also do not deserve to be treated in that way. What is really amusing is to find out that some of those giving out the hateful remarks have family members who either have earned or are now earning their living in UK!! How many people do we meet who have not at some point had family living in the UK? How shameful then to hear this kind of vitriol. To those who still hold such dislike for our neighbors, I suggest that they then go elsewhere to seek work, free medical care etc. Let them try living in a less tolerant and forgiving country and see how they bear up. I also think that there is quite a lot of begrudgery among certain types for any of our countrymen who have really succeeded in UK and are at the top of their profession, whether it be TV Presenters, Radio presenters or whatever, so it is often a case of 'If I don't have the ability, the motivation, the skills and the confidence to do that, then I don't want anyone else to do it either' How ignorant is it also to treat the offspring of an Irish Mother and Father who had to leave home to make a living, as if they were less Irish because of the circumstances they were brought into. I witness this quite often here, even though they know these people are pure Irish blood, if they speak differently at school etc, then they are branded as 'Brits' and often taunted by certain individuals. Where are these young children even learning that this kind of attitude is ok? I know of two Irish families who have felt forced to return to Birmingham as their, children suffered such discrimination and taunts in their schools. Speaking to the teachers had little or no effect....disgraceful. I guess it is the parents who needed to be spoken to.

havetoquit

havetoquit wrote: »

How ignorant is it also to treat the offspring of an Irish Mother and Father who had to leave home to make a living, as if they were less Irish because of the circumstances they were brought into. .

As a plastic paddy whos father left at 15 (Roscommon) and mother at 16 (Galway)I have had very little acceptance in Ireland(and I'm not looking for it), even my own family on both sides won't let me join their team, I don't wear county jerseys or a Connaught rugby jersey because of the old "You ain't Irish" routine, I never claim to be Irish i just say I'm not English, the main reason for me moving to Ireland was so my daughter could be born here and not put up with the ****e I have. You get a pint bought for you if your a Irish American 3 times removed but a Irish Londoner would be lucky to get a mineral.

I was told by a customer last year " I don't mind ye Brits now because you're not black or polish" I hope no Black polish gas fitters call to his house.

havetoquit

Hi. Your story is just so sad and such a bad reflection on those whom you would least expect to behave in such a way. It makes me feel uncomfortable knowing that there are people with such backward thinking among us in this day and age and to be honest I am not at all sure if I could resign myself to living on a daily basis surrounded by that kind of mind sync, so I admire your resilience and tolerance. It must hurt enormously to know that those so close to you feel that way, but I guess it is way too late to enlighten them or change their way of thinking. You now have the dutiful task of teaching your daughter to be non prejudiced and by her example to hopefully teach others likewise. Have you ever sat down with extended family members and discussed the subject in an effort to gain some insight into why they have such negative attitudes, particularly given that you, their family member having lived among British people is more than qualified to contradict their preconceived ideas and bring some sense of balance? Are they aware I wonder of how hurt and isolated their attitudes have made you feel? I personally feel that in such a situation I would want such a serious issue properly addressed to avoid my own children being influenced from an early age by the same attitudes and possibly led to adopt them, thus unwittingly carrying on the negatives to their own generation. I so wish you well and hope that given time attitudes will change. I think that whilst teaching Irish History, it would not be a bad thing if schools also took time to address the negativity of discrimination against past enemies and how it can breed an unhealthy bitterness and anger. It simply has no place in our society and hinders it's progression.

r3nu4l

gary71 wrote: »

As a plastic paddy whos father left at 15 (Roscommon) and mother at 16 (Galway)I have had very little acceptance in Ireland(and I'm not looking for it), even my own family on both sides won't let me join their team, I don't wear county jerseys or a Connaught rugby jersey because of the old "You ain't Irish" routine, I never claim to be Irish i just say I'm not English, the main reason for me moving to Ireland was so my daughter could be born here and not put up with the ****e I have. You get a pint bought for you if your a Irish American 3 times removed but a Irish Londoner would be lucky to get a mineral.

Mineral? You're definitely Irish :pac:

havetoquit

havetoquit wrote: »

Have you ever sat down with extended family members and discussed the subject in an effort to gain some insight into why they have such negative attitudes,

It tends to be a conversation on facts, to be Irish you need to be born here and to argue otherwise is pointless and it's very difficult to explain to people/family who have an allowed ethnicity the impact of not being allowed the same.

DublinWriter

I was working and living in London around the time of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry. From what I observed, this whole event marked a complete sea-change in the way British people approached racism and its effect cannot be underestimated.

Take any 'beloved' classic BBC TV comedy show in the 1970's and the racism was endemic, there are even a couple of episodes of Faulty Towers that the BBC wouldn't show now.

Sure, the alternative comedy movement of the early 1980's blew away all that was before it, but I distinctly remember very anti-Irish jokes being made by Tim Brooke-Taylor on BBC Radio 4's "I'm Sorry I Havn't a Clue" as late as 1999.

On a personal level, I found the British to be some of the most un-racist people I've ever met.

havetoquit

I see and then can we assume that there are some who would consider my children to be German, as they, like hundreds of other children of Irish parents were born in Germany? It's just so ridiculous isn't it and sounds almost insane. It seems to me that the people you speak of seem to dwell more on how the child/teenager/adult speaks, because let's say a child is born in London of either English or Irish parents and comes to live here before primary school, then this child for all intents and purposes will shortly pick up an Irish accent and appear no different than her classmates. To those who don't know her or her family that well, will assume she is Irish yes? Also if we are to turn this scenario round; what of the other nationalities here whose children are born here and brought up here, are they accepted without issue as being Irish? I somehow cannot see much sense in the argument at all once one analyzes it further can you? It definitely makes no sense at all to have an 'attitude' towards a person who is of Irish blood and returns to his homeland to his own family. There is perhaps an underlying form of bitterness or resentment borne out of something that has been handed down through the generations and to a point that has caused a shut down of any sort of acceptance or understanding of the actual facts. One could go so far as to say that realism is very lacking. Sorry that I am not articulating very well here, but I would so like to be able to understand the reasoning behind such thinking and where it's origins lie. I find that here in the very rural area I live in you find pockets of this type of negative attitudes, especially in regard to any wrong doing on behalf of the church. I call it denial with a capital D. You just find a wall is put up immediately if you attempt to discuss the subject, as they simply do not want to hear the truth and prefer to live in cuckoo land. I just say to myself ...so be it...carry on, but then later I ask myself why should I not discuss such topics openly, rather than show such blatant lack of compassion or regard and respect for those who suffered. It is perhaps not always good to keep quiet.

Times are a changing for some, it's easy to have a opinion when it costs nothing, I have a family member who was a racist but never met a black person her daughter married a black Muslim and now she has to question her racism for her granndchildrens sake, I have uncles who were loudest in telling me I wasn't Irish who now have grandchildren who were born in London and they have gone very quite.

My sister has lived here since she was 15,has recorded a few (good)country albums and has a Irish accent, she has no problems but I'm not allowed to reminder her where she was born or ask her where her original accent has gone:)

havetoquit

Oh dear Gary, it sounds quite awful, but I am sure that you have got used to it and just rise above it now. It would just be interesting to know and therefore understand from where the prejudices originated from? Perhaps a relative way back had very bad experiences and this has been passed down and even perhaps elaborated upon as time went by, but keeping the incident/experience very alive. So glad to hear that the other members are learning to rethink their attitudes. Honestly Gary, I can clearly recall my dear grandmother describing the English in less than respectful terms, but she did at least emphasize the period in time she was referring to i.e. times of occupation and so on. Bless her she had been indoctrinated by her church too and spoke of non Catholics as though they were a different species and from another planet. Well guess what? She came to live with us in beautiful Oxford when Grand-dad died and she was made such a fuss of and so welcomed that it took just a month for her to retort Oh, may the Lord in his wisdom forgive me my assumptions about these good people' To beat that, she was invited to a Harvest Festival at the village Church of England church. Granny thought it was going to be some kind of musical gathering, but came home to us profusely praising the lovely vicar, the prayers ' so like our own' and the hymns that she could join in with. She was so impressed that she asked why on earth our church does not bring our crops to the altar to thank the Lord once a year. Her finale was the best though ' To think that the vicar says that as a new parishoner, he and his wife would love to invite me for tea at the vicarage and would be obliged if I accepted' Well, Gary, we roared with laughter to see such a dramatic change in attitude in such a short space of time. Incredible from a lady well into her 80's. So Gary, I think for some people to change their thinking, they need to experience first hand the place and people for whom they hold such dislike. As dear Granny said years later ( she lived to be 100) 'It's never too late to learn and you can live for years with your eyes and ears half closed, just because you are afraid to open them and be proven wrong' I hope you will find humor in this little story and maybe, just maybe find it even slightly uplifting and positive. Perhaps copy and print it out for the most negative thinking people you run into!! Only joking there.

I don't look to deeply in to the reason behind ignorance or racism, people do it because they can and aren't challenged, if a racist comment is said here it's very hard to challenge giving a element of freedom to air those type of views(they call the black poolball the ****** in my village), if the same comment is said in London where it is a arrestable offence it's easier to challenge and rightly so, it doesn't mean racism is less just better hidden, there was no less racists in the Met after Stephen Lawrence, just better hidden.

I find these things come from ignorance and understanding tends to lead to better things, i'v been to a couple of west Indian Irish weddings and it was a opportunity for both groups to get to know each other over a pint and the siege of Venice and both sides took something from it.

Edgey75

i grew up in the nw of england ive got a accent thanks to that.
tbh i was quite shocked when i read that article that was in the first post, the nw of england is full of irish people and irish decent people. I think the time has mostly gone of the Irish hating thick idiots and those that would of fell into that catagory have moved on to hating eastern european imigrants and such.
I never encountered any racsim towards Irish people other than the odd few jokes about a Englishman Irishman and a Scotsman and on the whole they took the P out of everyone of them it wasnt just the Irish.
I think the article is on about a small minority of easily lead Uneducated idiots and not the general masses.

Since coming "Home" I personally have encounterd a lot of racism towards me due to my accent and my wife thanks to her english accent even though her name is niamh, we even had to take legal action over racism we encountered within the irish system, which we won.
I live in a great area and 90% of the people are fantastic and have accepted us but theirs still some very racist people who go on about things like they were yesterday and act and talk like I personally was responcible.

I never felt at home in England but was accepted and not treated any different (dont know if this was due to me sounding like them though).
I feel totally at home in Ireland like ive always meant to be here but have had so much hassle being treated differently at times due to my accent its near comical.

I also get the are you on holiday quite a lot when im in a different area and some funny looks when i say no and that my parents have been back here for near 20 years. There has also been some shock when people have found out i can speak basic irish, im not fluent but can get by and hold a conversation if i havent had a few pints :P.

Edgey75

Edgey75 wrote: »

I never felt at home in England but was accepted and not treated any different (dont know if this was due to me sounding like them though).
I feel totally at home in Ireland like ive always meant to be here but have had so much hassle being treated differently at times due to my accent its near comical.

I also get the are you on holiday quite a lot when im in a different area and some funny looks when i say no and that my parents have been back here for near 20 years.

Same as that:o, I'm more culchie than cockney but often my customers think i'v flown in from London just to fix their boiler (which is easier to belive), I find it's even more contrary up the north where I do a bit of work, I get no love from one side untill I explain myself and I get to much love from the other sometimes trying to involve me In bitching sessions not knowing I'm a undercover culchie and not someone who has just flown in from London:D

Personally I'm very happy living here as it does feel right even though I'm treated like a blow in, the only thing that winds me up is my dad keeps telling me the results when England lose, I think the accent confuses him as well.

Tabnabs

I worked both in England and Scotland for a year and was the sole Irish person surrounded by British lads on jobs for a number of years and many of the stereotypes are alive and well. Thick Mick, Paddy load (carrying too much with disastrous consequences), Paddy McGinty, Thirty Three, a slew of potato jokes etc. etc.

I've had lads singing Rangers songs trying to get a rise out of me, a Norfolk taxi driver telling me he hated the Irish, a Geordie telling me (fairly randomly) to "get over the famine" () One Scottish guy I worked with wouldn't talk to me because I was Irish. In the main, these were skilled, educated and well paid people, not the bottom rung of the ladder by any stretch.

But it doesn't stop there, there is an inherent sense of tribalism in the UK; the Gerodie's and Maccum's, Scousers (universally hated), "soft southern puffs", Yorkshiremen, Brummies, Cornwall lads, they all had deep seeded prejudices. And then you start talking about the foreigners, I'd never come across so many derogatory names for Indians, Arabs, Africans etc.

So yes, in my experience, there is plenty of anti-foreigner sentiment in the UK and if you are Irish, you get that brand of negativity.