Anti-Irish Racism in Britain

partyguinness

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I have been living in Brum for 2 years and I have never come across any form of racism. To be honest I have pulled my mother in law up on some Irish jokes but she is mild "Little Englander".

99.9% of the English I deal with are lovely.

I think the author is mistaken in saying the "return". Anti-Irish sentiment will always be there but I believe that it only evident among what I call "Little Englanders".

My definition of Little Englander (Sun/Daily Mail reading, larger drinking, overweight, jingoist, racist, homophobic, sexist, deep distrust of anything 'foreign' and thick as two short planks ignorant lout...just think of your stereotypical forotball lout).

Now that I think of it, that could be a Dublin taxi driver...:D

To be honest they hate everyone so I would take no notice of them. I think the author needs to socialise in better circles.

He is right in saying there is a disconnect with the older generation. I have been to Irish pubs etc and I might as well be in Siberia. It doesnt help that I work in what is deemed a "professional" job.

In other words I am not an employed tradesman from the Midlands/Border counties and I didnt move over for work so I have virtually nothing in common with the Irish I meet over here.

Any experiences?

youreadthis

partyguinness wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I have been living in Brum for 2 years and I have never come across any form of racism. To be honest I have pulled my mother in law up on some Irish jokes but she is mild "Little Englander".

99.9% of the English I deal with are lovely.

I think the author is mistaken in saying the "return". Anti-Irish sentiment will always be there but I believe that it only evident among what I call "Little Englanders".

My definition of Little Englander (Sun/Daily Mail reading, larger drinking, overweight, jingoist, racist, homophobic, sexist, deep distrust of anything 'foreign' and thick as two short planks ignorant lout...just think of your stereotypical forotball lout).

Little Englander is a term used by lazy people to describe anyone English who is skeptical of the EU. What you just described is a lot of different types of people.

partyguinness

youreadthis wrote: »

Little Englander is a term used by lazy people to describe anyone English who is skeptical of the EU. What you just described is a lot of different types of people.

I know plenty of English people who are skeptical about the EU and are not what I deem Little Englanders. The word skeptical implies a certain level of reasoned or rational debate.

I am referring to the jingoistic ignorant anti-foreigner (as opposed to EU) yobs that the author has come across.

As for "Lazy People"....right..:rolleyes:

djpbarry

partyguinness wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/generationemigration/2012/07/17/return-of-anti-irish-racism-in-britain/?via=mr

I was going to start a thread when I saw that article, but then to be honest, I thought it wasn't worth it. The author clearly has an agenda.

For example, notice that the title refers to Britain, but the article itself makes no reference to anywhere other than England. Kind of ironic given the one place in Britain you are almost certain to (eventually) experience anti-Irish sentiment is Glasgow.

It's tabloid journalism. The author is using examples of extremists to justify their own pre-conceived notion that Irish people have a hard time of it when they go abroad. But, thankfully, the days of every Irish person being considered a suspect terrorist are long gone.

All I can say to Mr. Whelan is, try being non-white for a day.

Personally, I've only experienced one instance of racism in all the time I've spent in the UK and that involved a drunken squaddie in a pub. Unfortunately, my British missus experienced anti-Englishness (even though she's not actually English, not that it matters) on a far more regular basis in Ireland.

who the fug

djpbarry

They guy what wrote it is based in London he is the guy whose block of flats the missile where being placed on , early in the summer

I agree it is a non story, and he should know better

After 25 years here the only abuse I have got is from drunken sweaties behind a bar, and a plastic paddy.

questionmark?

Generally it isnt that bad and the vast majority of english people quite like the Irish.

Setting aside the usual "say thirty three" I haven't experienced much. I did get accustomed once by a guy in a pub who said he fought in the north as if I was to blame for his hardship. I reminded him that the North is part of the UK and when he was there the people he was fighting were UK born citizens so maybe stop blaming foreigners like me for yer problems. The lad didn't know what to say and walked away.

On another note I was told told f**k off you white english c*nt by a somebody with a Jamican accent drinking a bottle of Guinness Extra Stout He was a hobo/junkie so I let it go:D

Sound of Silence

If the Daily Mail was our cultural barometer for all things British, then I wouldn't blame the author for thinking that there was a certain level of Anti-Irishness afoot in the UK.

djpbarry

questionmark? wrote: »

Setting aside the usual "say thirty three"...

The what now?

questionmark? wrote: »

I did get accustomed once by a guy in a pub who said he fought in the north as if I was to blame for his hardship. I reminded him that the North is part of the UK and when he was there the people he was fighting were UK born citizens so maybe stop blaming foreigners like me for yer problems.

I would advise others against such a course of action, as it's likely to land them in A&E.

questionmark?

djpbarry wrote: »

The what now?

You haven't actually been asked this? Say thirty three. Irish people don't pronounce the "h" in words such as thought, three, thirty three, thinking etc... I have had loads of people say this to me and generally people like this as it portrays the Irish accent that so many like. I have never had it asked as an insult but rather a compliment.

I would advise others against such a course of action, as it's likely to land them in A&E.

Either would I but I was in a bad mood and I'm more than capable of looking after myself but was merely my example of what I have experienced.

I may add that 99.99999999% of what I have experienced from English people is positive and most don't even see us Irish as "foreigners"

r3nu4l

In 8 years living in East Anglia, I've only experienced three instances. The first was from three squaddie-types outside a bar who heard my accent while I was passing them by and suited aggressively at me '**** off home Paddy' and then another two references to 'Paddy' that were aggressive in tone but not frightening in any way. I did have a member of the BNP in Cambridge tell me that I wasn't really foreign as we shared the same blood...

I decided against telling him what I thought of that. :pac:

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

golden lane

r3nu4l wrote: »

In 8 years living in East Anglia, I've only experienced three instances. The first was from three squaddie-types outside a bar who heard my accent while I was passing them by and suited aggressively at me '**** off home Paddy' and then another two references to 'Paddy' that were aggressive in tone but not frightening in any way. I did have a member of the BNP in Cambridge tell me that I wasn't really foreign as we shared the same blood...

I decided against telling him what I thought of that. :pac:

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

i lived just outside cambridge for 33 years.......i foud that area was the least anti irish in the whole uk.....

i have worked and stayed in most of the uk.......not a lot of hatred showing anywhere really.....

so after 52 years in the uk......i give it 10 out of 10......

djpbarry

questionmark? wrote: »

You haven't actually been asked this? Say thirty three.

I'm genuinely puzzled - not only have I never been asked, I don't know anyone else who has every been asked (as far as I am aware).

But then again, I speak English properly.

Bobeagleburger

The Irish aren't a race.

r3nu4l

rarnes1 wrote: »

The Irish aren't a race.

Ah bless, pedantry. I'm sure you know what people mean but just in case, just for you so that you understand the intent of the thread, people are referring to anti-Irish sentiment and anti-Irish bigotry. I hope this clears up any confusion for you.

@golden lane. I'm sure we know many of the same places so The incident with the squaddies was on Mill Road in Cambridge, near the Romsey town end; a place I lived for three years. It was the only incident of it's sort I ever encountered on Mill Road (despite the reputation Mill Road [undeservedly imo] has). East Anglia is a great place to live, particularly Cambridge and I wouldn't let those instances put anyone off visiting or living there. I've encountered thousands of people during my 8 years here and I'm not worried about three petty incidents but the question was asked and I've answered.

Do I think anti-Irish racism, oops, I mean bigotry or sentiment, is on the rise? No. Do I think there will always be idiots out there who hate other people because of where they are from,the colour of the skin, their religion or lack thereof? Yes.

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

But then again, I speak English properly.

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

OP: You'll find their ilk in every country. Uneducated troglodytes aren't unique to England.

BQQ

golden lane wrote: »

i lived just outside cambridge for 33 years.......i foud that area was the least anti irish in the whole uk.....

i have worked and stayed in most of the uk.......not a lot of hatred showing anywhere really.....

so after 52 years in the uk......i give it 10 out of 10......

Surely 10 out of 10 should be reserved for "No hatred" rather than "not a lot of hatred".

questionmark?

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm genuinely puzzled - not only have I never been asked, I don't know anyone else who has every been asked (as far as I am aware).

But then again, I speak English properly.

r3nu4l wrote: »

As for the 'turty-tree' brigade, I usually tell them that at least most Irish people only leave out the letter h whereas most English people leave out the th and replace it with an f, firty-free'

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

.

havetoquit

So agree with all those sentiments and I can also say that having lived in a number of European countries, the times I lived in various parts of the UK were among my happiest. It very much depends on yourself and the kind of person you are, as to how others perceive you in my own humble opinion. I was made so very welcome among the English Scots and Welsh and in many cases made to feel so inclusive as to be one of them. The types of bigotry spoken about at the beginning of the thread is something I have never been presented with, but am acutely aware that it can indeed be found in most countries among a certain type of individuals and that includes our own country. I always tend to distance myself from these types and the places they are most likely to frequent and if you do the same you will feel very at home. I found that fully integrating socially and not just keeping to Irish pubs and suchlike was the best way of really getting to know a people and to becoming easily and quickly accepted as an equal and why not? We have so much in common and our traditions compliment each other. So many of our people have made such good lives in Britain and have chosen to remain there. The only ones you will hear complaining are generally those who do likewise at home. Just as my dear uncle used to relate to me regarding some of the Irish he met when he emigrated in the 50's; he said that there were those who would drink every penny they earned and then sing their sad songs and cry into their beers about wanting to go home, when in fact those same guys never did go back and preferred to spend their hard earned money on drink. Many is the man that received a letter delivering news of one of his parent's passing and still did not bother to go home for the funeral. Believe me this is true and I have spoken to many families here who bear this out. So I guess it takes all kinds and if we go out to any country with an open mind devoid of any preconceived ideas we will be fine. I wish the initial poster the best of luck wherever he intends to settle.

golden lane

BQQ wrote: »

Surely 10 out of 10 should be reserved for "No hatred" rather than "not a lot of hatred".

no, you cannot have no hatred......there would be no sports...

pompeyboi

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

no, you cannot have no hatred......there would be no sports...

or jokes....

golden lane

pompeyboi wrote: »

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

agreed......

My own experiences of living in Ireland as a plastic paddy would be similar to my experience of paddy bashing in London(were only joking), its intolerance and ignorance that can be found in other races and cultures that i'v experienced growing up in Brent the most multicultural area in London. Personally I hate the racism I come across here because as a nation we have had more than our fair share and I hoped their would be more understanding.

A point my father made was he felt the English were very tolerant back in the day because he thought if bombs were going off in Roscommon the response would be different, from my own experiences there was very little anti Irish sentiment from my British Gas colleagues after the Bishopesgate Bome( which I would of been standing against if it went off the day before) we had to make safe buildings for rescue workers and help look for bodies, most people I talked to at the time could tell the difference between a terrorist and non terrorists thankfully.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

My own experiences of living in Ireland as a plastic paddy would be similar to my experience of paddy bashing in London(were only joking), its intolerance and ignorance that can be found in other races and cultures that i'v experienced growing up in Brent the most multicultural area in London. Personally I hate the racism I come across here because as a nation we have had more than our fair share and I hoped their would be more understanding.

A point my father made was he felt the English were very tolerant back in the day because he thought if bombs were going off in Roscommon the response would be different, from my own experiences there was very little anti Irish sentiment from my British Gas colleagues after the Bishopesgate Bome( which I would of been standing against if it went off the day before) we had to make safe buildings for rescue workers and help look for bodies, most people I talked to at the time could tell the difference between a terrorist and non terrorists thankfully.

i drove past that lorry at ten to nine that morning........i arrived at the cafe across the square just after the blast......my dub accent was not the centre of any hatred......

avalon68

dlofnep wrote: »

Just as well we don't speak English in Ireland, we speak Hiberno-English. And we speak it properly, including the absence of 'th'. And the thirty-three thing I've heard lots of times, but it was usually just a bit of harmless banter.

OP: You'll find their ilk in every country. Uneducated troglodytes aren't unique to England.

We do? I distinctly remember learning to pronounce my " th" in school.....

pompeyboi

pompeyboi wrote: »

The irish aren't racially discriminated against in the UK atall. however the English are racially discriminated against in Ireland. FACT.

golden lane wrote: »

agreed......

Not with you on that, Back in the day Biddys and the National were targeted and smashed up for being Irish hang outs and modern day you have gangs around Harlesden and Willesden in London targeting prodomuntaly Irish including my father who was hit on the head with a baseball bat, now admittedly these are people leaving Irish pubs but it's still pubs of choice( it seems)

guitarzero

Did anyone ask them about the small issue of the british here? Would be good to compare the impact of both parties.

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

i drove past that lorry at ten to nine that morning........i arrived at the cafe across the square just after the blast......my dub accent was not the centre of any hatred......

I missed the Wembly bome by a couple of minutes, my Aunty was dating the sergeant who was shot in Hendon and a Bome went up beside my dads pub in Harlesden, I remember a lot of people being scared but very little hatred, tolerance is a beautiful thing.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

Not with you on that, Back in the day Biddys and the National were targeted and smashed up for being Irish hang outs and modern day you have gangs around Harlesden and Willesden in London targeting prodomuntaly Irish including my father who was hit on the head with a baseball bat, now admittedly these are people leaving Irish pubs but it's still pubs of choice( it seems)

i don't class a few yobs in every big city, as a country that is racist.....

sorry to hear about the attacks.....

golden lane

golden lane wrote: »

i don't class a few yobs in every big city, as a country that is racist.....

sorry to hear about the attacks.....

I agree, the point I'm making albeit badly is I find people the same no matter the country of origin, do you say "some"people are intolerant of other nationalities because of their country of origin or is it just because their different, if it's another country than racism can be attached to that intolerance but I find the same intolerance between "some" townsfolk and countryfolk same thing but not racism, my own cousin calls anyone from outside Athlone a muck savage which isn't a term of indearment.

golden lane

gary71 wrote: »

I agree, the point I'm making albeit badly is I find people the same no matter the country of origin, do you say "some"people are intolerant of other nationalities because of their country of origin or is it just because their different, if it's another country than racism can be attached to that intolerance but I find the same intolerance between "some" townsfolk and countryfolk same thing but not racism, my own cousin calls anyone from outside Athlone a muck savage which isn't a term of indearment.

these so called yobs/racists......would attack anybody they see as different to them.....country of origion is just easy to distinguish.....they are in every country...

the only time i was personally racially abused...was in a hotel bar in east belfast.....

purely on my accent....i was told in a not very nice and hatefull manner....

you wont ever get the six counties back, you fenian bastard....no surrender to you fenian bastards.....now go back from where you came from you fenian bastard.....

lucky there were a few ruc men who were regular drinkers there.....they got him and his friends out.....

i must have recieved a thousand opoligies from everybody in the hotel for the next week....