Resting a shotgun on your foot when out shooting. Pros & Cons.

FISMA

MOD NOTE

Split off from other thread.

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rockyvsrocky1 wrote: »

Any tips that goes with shooting as this is my first year shooting the shotgun.

Safety, safety, and more safety.

Never point the gun at anything you're ready to fire.

Always treat your shotgun as if it is loaded.

Keep your finger off of the trigger until it needs to be there.

Pass on any shot with which you are not 100% comfortable.

If guns have not been a part of the family, then head out with some auld fellas and leave your gun at home.

Don't be in a hurry to shoot anything, ever.

Remember that this is a sport where "accidents" can be unforgiving.

"Accidents" in shooting are like plane crashes, they come in two flavors: (1) someone did something really dumb or (2) there was a trail of tragic errors that resulted in tragedy.

You should not have a problem if you: (a) keep the action open, (b) keep your finger off of the trigger, and (c) keep the gun pointed in to the ground.

Have fun, enjoy the sport, and enjoy the great outdoors.

Mike87

FISMA wrote: »

Safety, safety, and more safety.

Never point the gun at anything you're ready to fire.

Always treat your shotgun as if it is loaded.

Keep your finger off of the trigger until it needs to be there.

Pass on any shot with which you are not 100% comfortable.

If guns have not been a part of the family, then head out with some auld fellas and leave your gun at home.

Don't be in a hurry to shoot anything, ever.

Remember that this is a sport where "accidents" can be unforgiving.

"Accidents" in shooting are like plane crashes, they come in two flavors: (1) someone did something really dumb or (2) there was a trail of tragic errors that resulted in tragedy.

You should not have a problem if you: (a) keep the action open, (b) keep your finger off of the trigger, and (c) keep the gun pointed in to the ground.

Have fun, enjoy the sport, and enjoy the great outdoors.

I know two people myself that lost toes because, for whatever reason, they rested the gun on their feet while standing chatting. And theres another fella that does the exact same thing and I always give out stink to him about it, but hes one of these 18 year olds that reckons he knows it all :rolleyes:

Tawny Owl

Mike87 wrote: »

I know two people myself that lost toes because, for whatever reason, they rested the gun on their feet while standing chatting. And theres another fella that does the exact same thing and I always give out stink to him about it, but hes one of these 18 year olds that reckons he knows it all :rolleyes:

Well leave him to one side when he is talking as it will be only a matter of time before he is a another one without toes so mind yourself around him if your in a Club do you have a Safety Officer that can take him aside if not as I said earlier give him a wide bert.Best of luck this season

FISMA

Mike87 wrote: »

I know two people myself that lost toes because, for whatever reason, they rested the gun on their feet while standing chatting.

+1
I can't believe people still do it too!

To make matters even worse, I cannot believe that companies actually make toe pads so that your shoes don't get scuffed.

I wonder if they come in Kevlar?

Witcher

FISMA wrote: »

+1
I can't believe people still do it too!

To make matters even worse, I cannot believe that companies actually make toe pads so that your shoes don't get scuffed.

I wonder if they come in Kevlar?

If the gun is broken and unloaded then it's not really an issue.

Mike87

FISMA wrote: »

+1
I can't believe people still do it too!

To make matters even worse, I cannot believe that companies actually make toe pads so that your shoes don't get scuffed.

I wonder if they come in Kevlar?

:eek: :eek: :eek: Im not usually one for outright banning things, but that is something I would 100% support a ban on. That kinda thing is just encouraging people to rest guns on their feet. Just thinking about companies making profits on that type of product makes me rage.

Witcher

Mike87 wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :eek: Im not usually one for outright banning things, but that is something I would 100% support a ban on. That kinda thing is just encouraging people to rest guns on their feet. Just thinking about companies making profits on that type of product makes me rage.

Why would you ban them? They don't encourage people to do anything, I put the gun on my toe when Im shooting clays and I dont even have a pad..if its broken and empty then what is the issue?

Example:

djflawless

Blay wrote: »

Why would you ban them? They don't encourage people to do anything, I put the gun on my toe when Im shooting clays and I dont even have a pad..if its broken and empty then what is the issue?

Example:



Lad hasnt got it on his toe but the gun does be in the same position.

nearly a universal stand in dtl shooting at this stage..as you stated..open and empty..wheres the harm?obviously if the fella's standing there chatting away with a loaded gun resting on his toes in the field its a different barrel of trout

Mike87

Blay wrote: »

Why would you ban them? They don't encourage people to do anything

Well whats the point in buying it if you dont plan on using it?

Im just saying I know two (and possibly a third given enough time) people who shot off their toes and I think resting a gun on your foot is a bad practice to get into.

In my eyes its the same as pointing a gun. You can point an unloaded gun at someone and dry fire it at them if you want and its not going to do any harm, but you still dont do it because some day you might just forget yourself and do something you regret.

Witcher

Mike87 wrote: »

Well whats the point in buying it if you dont plan on using it?

Im just saying I know two (and possibly a third given enough time) people who shot off their toes and I think resting a gun on your foot is a bad practice to get into.

In my eyes its the same as pointing a gun. You can point an unloaded gun at someone and dry fire it at them if you want and its not going to do any harm, but you still dont do it because some day you might just forget yourself and do something you regret.

It doesn't encourage people to put a loaded gun onto their foot. You have to be naturally stupid to do something like that, banning a flap of leather won't stop people doing it.

Mike87

Blay wrote: »

It doesn't encourage people to put a loaded gun onto their foot. You have to be naturally stupid to do something like that, banning a flap of leather won't stop people doing it.

Are you denying that it encourages you to put the gun (whether its not loaded or not) onto your foot?

Once you get into the habbit of resting it on your foot every time you bump into someone you know, or rest it on your foot every time you stop walking to take a breather, then imo your going down a slippery slope.

Witcher

Mike87 wrote: »

Are you denying that it encourages you to put the gun (whether its not loaded or not) onto your foot?

Once you get into the habbit of resting it on your foot every time you bump into someone you know, or rest it on your foot every time you stop walking to take a breather, then imo your going down a slippery slope.

The person that buys one probably already does it anyway. I do it regularly and I don't even own one of them. The people using them are clay shooters waiting to shoot a stand, the gun isn't even loaded.

The fact is if the gun is broken and empty you could rest the gun on your bare foot, nothing is going to happen. You're blaming a flap of leather on accidents that can only be attributed to idiocy.

The type of person who puts a closed shotgun straight down onto their foot is beyond help, they're going to do things like that whether they're wearing a leather flap on their toe or not.

Honestly, if someone came on here tomorrow and said 'I blew my big toe off today because I closed a loaded gun and placed it down on my shoe flap' would you seriously blame an inanimate object for that or the person?

djflawless

Mike87 wrote: »

Once you get into the habbit of resting it on your foot every time you bump into someone you know, or rest it on your foot every time you stop walking to take a breather, then imo your going down a slippery slope.

well imo if your anyway tuned into safe and sporting shooting, you will already have it drilled into your head that if you stop for a chat or a breather you will automatically break and empty the gun

TriggerPL

this is a very common accident while out shooting ! it a nasty habbit to get into and having a peice of leather advertised is encouraging you to rest the gun on your for . regardless of weather your an idiot or not this is an all t common accident while out shooting .

Cass

Mike87 wrote: »

I'm just saying I know two (and possibly a third given enough time) people who shot off their toes and I think resting a gun on your foot is a bad practice to get into.

It's a habit i picked up from a young age, and is common practice when shooting clays. However it is always done with an unloaded, and empty gun.

To blame a piece of leather or any other item as a cause or catalyst for this behaviour is ridiculous. I was doing it long before i got a toe protector. I have the marks on my shoes to prove it. Also i never wear this item when out shooting game. Different mentality so different "process" for resting the gun.

The only place i've seen them is at clay shoots, and as all clays shoots demand a gun to be broken, cleared, and unloaded when not firing (some/most even demand that the gun be cased) i fail to see how it would cause this foot shooting epidemic.

Blay wrote: »

The fact is if the gun is broken and empty you could rest the gun on your bare foot, nothing is going to happen. You're blaming a flap of leather on accidents that can only be attributed to idiocy.

The one point everyone seems to be circling, but has not mentioned is how foolish does a person have to be to be playing with the trigger of a loaded gun when it is pointing/resting at/on his foot.

hedzball

Know a lad who blew off his thumbs..

Had the gun stock resting on his boot..

thumb in the barrel (as we have done all ourselves)

Dog came along all energetic put the paw onto the trigger.. gnite mister thumb..



Fact of the matter is you can point a gun anywhere you want as long as you have it unloaded..

TriggerPL

hedzball wrote: »

Know a lad who blew off his thumbs..

Had the gun stock resting on his boot..

thumb in the barrel (as we have done all ourselves)

Dog came along all energetic put the paw onto the trigger.. gnite mister thumb..



Fact of the matter is you can point a gun anywhere you want as long as you have it unloaded..

im sorry but i just pissed my self laughing when i read that. cant for the life of me figure out why you would have both thumbs in the barrels .

landkeeper

such a big fuss made over a little piece of leather that nobody in their right mind is going to wear walking through fields and ditches it's a clay shooters accessory pure and simple , banning them and frothing about companies business ethics because they make them are you for real
it's comfortable to stand with a broken gun with the muzzle resting on your foot
it isn't with a closed gun try it and see

It wasn't me!

hedzball wrote: »

thumb in the barrel (as we have done all ourselves

We do? Dunno about you, but relating to "never point a gun at anything you're not willing to destroy", I'm pretty fond of my thumbs!

moby30

Lads that stupid to blow their toes off should be thrown out of any club they are in be refused insurance and more importantly have the gun and licence taken off them. Makes absolutely no sense trying to ban an item like this.

pheasntstalker

i posted a thread here awhile ago which was moved to shooting thread ,of having personally witnessed what happens to someone engaging in resting the gun on your toe ,thrust me it ain,t a pretty sight,so no i think wither u shoot clays or any type of shooting dont do it full stop!!gun broken an empty or not,all takes is one silly mistake,safety safety safety at all times,

landkeeper

what difference does it make whether the gun is over your arm or resting on your toe if it's broken , if it's closed that's a different ball game a broken gun is safe , an empty broken gun is completely safe

garv123

How stupid would you be to rest an unbroken gun on your toe?

How stupid would you be to rest a loaded gun on your toe?

How stupid would you have to be to have the safety off your gun?

How stupid would you have to be to have hands near the trigger of your loaded, unbroken gun with the safety off whilst its resting on your foot?

If you are stupid enough to do all these things at the same time you should not have a licence.


as for putting your thumb in the barrel who the feck does that?

FISMA

Blay wrote: »

If the gun is broken and unloaded then it's not really an issue.

True, but I also would not want someone point that broken and unloaded shotgun at me.

There are some things that are just good practice and others that are accidents waiting to happen.

In my opinion, resting the shotgun on your foot is just bad practice one that is backed by many a person that are missing digits, and not the type you get from the ladies!

Mike87

We could argue about this for the rest of the year and still not come to a conclusion, so Im just going to leave it at this.

1) If new/young shooters are seeing these products in shops, see everyone around them resting guns on feet, then they will think its an acceptable practice.

2) As you have all pointed out, resting a gun on your foot, so long as the gun is open and unloaded is completely safe. But the problem is that some day you might just forget yourself. Toes getting blown off from shotguns as far as I can tell, is up there amongst the most common shooting accident that happens. So that alone tells us that its not working. In theory its 100% safe- but in real life its not working quite as it should be.

3) I can put the same argument forward, that so long as a gun is emptied and checked before-hand there is absoluetly zero danger aiming it at someone and dry firing it. It is a very safe habbit to get into if you want to try it. But its extremely taboo for the exact same reason, some day you might forget yourself. And let me assure you, if any of us here witnessed somebody point and dry fire at somebody else you would tear them a new hole. It just wouldnt be tolerated in this country. Perhaps if shotguns resting on toes was treated just as serious/taboo as that, then just maybe we wouldnt have so many people hobbling about with half feet.

4) Someone mentioned why play with the trigger while the gun is resting on your foot- yes that is a good question. But apparantly its a common enough practice.

5) Honestly, it makes no odds to me if people rest guns on their feet- just so long as it doesnt get pointed at me. At the end of the day, its your foot, obviously Id much rather if you didnt blow it off, but if you insist on doing it- well I guess its your foot and its your choice.

moby30

We are all off to buy these toe protectors now and blow the feet off ourselves. We are pointing guns at each other and dry firing and some day we will forget we loaded the gun. We are playing with the triggers while pointing a loaded gun at our feet - even sticking our fingers down the barrel. Bloody hell - I'm off to buy a bullet proof vest illuminous flack jacket and helmet. Has anyone got actual statistics for this country on how many incidents have occurred. It's ridiculous and to be honest insulting to say its common enough. I'm not denying it hasn't happened- it clearly has but check how many registered firearm owners there are and I guarantee it's a tiny percentage that have had these accidents. There is nothing 100% safe in this world as there is always some idiot and banning things like this won't make a dangerous incompetent person any safer. It's up to each of us and every gun club to teach safety properly and regularly and report anyone we consider unsafe.

pheasntstalker

i wouldnt feel comfortable standing near someone doing it,even if the gun was broken and empty ,maybe because of witnessing the accident,it only takes a moments lapse and the damage is done,it could and does happen to us all at some stage,never say never,thats my 2 cents worth

Feisar

hedzball wrote: »

Know a lad who blew off his thumbs..

Had the gun stock resting on his boot..

thumb in the barrel (as we have done all ourselves)

Dog came along all energetic put the paw onto the trigger.. gnite mister thumb..



Fact of the matter is you can point a gun anywhere you want as long as you have it unloaded..

Dad told me that one years ago, I always put it down to a yarn and word of caution.

landkeeper

with respect pheasant stalker your just throwing petrol on the fire
what you posted up was a shooting accident , where somebody tripped and pulled the trigger , it could have been a foot hand leg or worse
it really has nothing to do with what is being talked about here apart from the fact that the poor bloke shot his own foot .
a broken empty gun is as dangerous resting on somebodies foot as it is lying on the ground or over the crook of an arm
there really are mountains being made out of molehills here

Boiled-egg

Lads,
This stance originated in clay shooting, where the gun is never carried loaded. It is a perfectly acceptable way of waiting for your target, as to carry over the crook of the arm will end up in tiring muscles this effecting scores. It really has no place in game shooting where the gun is more often than not loaded, but it has crept all the same.

Cass

Mike87 wrote: »

....... then they will think its an acceptable practice.

It is, if, like everything else in shooting you are miindful of what you are doing, and where you are.

Toes getting blown off from shotguns as far as I can tell, is up there amongst the most common shooting accident that happens. So that alone tells us that its not working.

Yes. It tells us that people are putting loaded guns, with safty off, and then pulling the trigger when it's on their toes. That's not an accident that's stupidity.

3) I can put the same argument forward, that so long as a gun is emptied and checked before-hand there is absoluetly zero danger aiming it at someone and dry firing it.

Absolutely nowhere near the same thing. gun should never be pointed at ANY person, ANY time, for ANY reason. The fact that you even suggest that resting an empty gun on your foot is the same as pointing an empty gun at someone would be farcical if it were not so serious.

But apparantly its a common enough practice.

So banning a piece of leather will stop people from playing with triggers of a loaded gun? Seriously need to reconsider what you think is an appropriate method of combating firearm accidents. That's like saying don't give people petrol for their car, because they might rear end someone some day.

5) Honestly, it makes no odds to me if people rest guns on their feet- just so long as it doesnt get pointed at me..

Once again the fact you compare a practice that is done by millions around the world, and barring the occasional numpty that plays with the trigger without breaking the gun, is safe to pointing a gun at a person. A major no no for any reason. Well again, i would suggest you consider your position.

pheasntstalker wrote: »

i wouldnt feel comfortable standing near someone doing it,...........

So if someone is standing beside you, with a shotgun on the toe. You look over and see the gun is empty, the safety on, no cartridges in the barrels. You still feel uncomfortable?

That's a little sensationalist. I would be more concerned with someone standing beside me in a ditch, that keeps playing with the trigger of a loaded gun without any concern as to where the gun is being pointed.


I'll say this, and then bow out because this can go on without end. Blaming a piece of material on accidental shooting is a joke. Plain and simple. Accidents don't happen they are caused. People's ignorance, stupidity, lack of attention, etc. are what causes injuries. The simple fact is we are involved in sports that when things go wrong they go very wrong. Hence the reason why we impose such heavy safety conditions upon ourselves. There is no seecond chances.

However, alarmist, sensationalist, and non relevant attacks on items or practices that are well known, and well used because of the actions of a few are non-sensical. You cannot legislate for the stupid. It is this kind of short sighted thinking that has us with some of the stupid laws we have in this country. It's called a "knee jerk" re-action. IOW a course of action seen by most as an attempt to combat a situation, which infact does nothing to address the actual problem. If they were banned i the morning i would still rest my shotgun on my toe, just without the leather patch. So how does this help?

The only way to prevent these accidents is training, and education on safety, and firearm usage.

pheasntstalker

with respect to landkeeper and ezridax ,im not trying to pour petrol on the fire,i just dont personally think weather your clay shooting or rough shooting why its common practice to rest the barrels on your toe,ok i understand at clayshoots its common resting it broken and empty whilst waiting to shoot, i just think from a first timers prospective just getting into his/her chosen sport should be encourged to do this as part of the safety side of things i.e prevention and what could go wrong etc, i apologise after goin back thru some of my posts, some posts mightened of made sense,and went off track for that im sorry had no sleep lastnite with daughter bein sick all nite:(,any way i do not want to offend or slate ,its just my personal opion on the topic,p.s them shoes are mank:eek::eek:

It wasn't me!

One other benefit nobody's mentioned is that when the muzzles are on your shoe, you know they're not collecting mud or any obstruction that could cause a real problem when you pull the trigger.

hedzball

Feisar wrote: »

Dad told me that one years ago, I always put it down to a yarn and word of caution.

Funny enough I know of the guy and have gone out with him since..

Same guy has a spec in his eye and twitchs thinking he's seen snipe..


I meant to say THUMB

bazza888

so if its dangerous to get into the habbit of putting a broken unloaded gun on your toe,how is it not dangerous to put the broken unloaded gun under your arm and stand talking to another lad with the same done?in either case if you forget to break and unload the gun someone will get hurt?

ssl

I rearly if ever shoot clays but i would like to know:
1. Where does the clay shooting body (if there is one) stand on this?
2. Is there regulations in the olympics with regard to this practice in a competition?
3. Whats way do the insurance companies rule on this in the event of a claim?


P.s. Once a year the devil loads a shotgun.

Witcher

ssl wrote: »

I rearly if ever shoot clays but i would like to know:
1. Where does the clay shooting body (if there is one) stand on this?
2. Is there regulations in the olympics with regard to this practice in a competition?
3. Whats way do the insurance companies rule on this in the event of a claim?


P.s. Once a year the devil loads a shotgun.

That pic I posted above was random picture I found online from an ICPSA shoot so clearly they're ok with it.

In the Olympics shooters probably aren't standing around waiting to shoot a stand so there probably is no need to do it. Anyway there are pics of Derek Burnett in Beijing standing with a gun broken and empty over his shoulder, no different to it being down broken and empty in your hand but resting on your foot.

If you shot yourself in the foot by closing a loaded gun and facing it down onto your foot, no insurance company will entertain that. The key words being closed and loaded.

Yes he does but I dont think he loads it when you can actually see into the chambers of the gun when its on your foot.

Spunk84

Stupid is what stupid does !

chessman

FISMA wrote: »

+1
I can't believe people still do it too!

To make matters even worse, I cannot believe that companies actually make toe pads so that your shoes don't get scuffed.

I wonder if they come in Kevlar?

you wouldnt be doing any rough shooting in that clobber:D

djflawless

chessman wrote: »

you wouldnt be doing any rough shooting in that clobber:D

thats probably a major fact to this whole argument...i cant imagine anyone going for a bird in a pair of fancy brown leathers..imo its a clayshooters piece

Grizzly 45

If you are doing this resting on the foot lark while game shootng you are nuts!

There is just too much of a risk of getting dirt into your barrells,and in the rush of arriving birds of not checking the barrells for an obstruction.Not to mind its a good way I think of dinging up the muzzle if it slips off onto a rock or somthing.
On a proper clay range,different story,but still why anyone would bother doing this as it is uncomfortable having two pipes jabbing you in the foot.:)

Sika98k

Blay wrote: »

It doesn't encourage people to put a loaded gun onto their foot. You have to be naturally stupid to do something like that, banning a flap of leather won't stop people doing it.

I have to admit it but I have met some people who are in short naturally stupid.Nobody in their right state of mind set out to blow their toe/s off but it and worse do happen.

Cavan duck buster

after reading a few posts i think this is all bullsh**e

i've been clay shooting for a year now and had alleays been told that this is safe as long that the gun is broken and unloaded by the gun dealer and the county safeity offecer when i first started shooting last winter.

it is beyound be how someone can blow their toe off by this way unless that you rest the gun loaded and unbroken, which in all fairness means you shouldent have a licence at all

also if you were to rest the end of the barrel on the ground you risk of damaging it, as i don't want to scrape the whole end of my barrels do i rest it on my foot when waiting to shoot and accross my sholder when talking to the lads before the next line.

Longranger

If you have a bit of cop-on and common sense you won't leave ammo in the gun when resting like this. I do it all the time when shooting clays,but never when I'm hunting as I'm usually on the move anyway. I do know one lad who does it with a loaded gun all the time but he thinks "sure I'll be grand":rolleyes: Mind you,the same fella once thought the MW switch on a radio stood for MIDWEST!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

bazza888

theres alot of lads around missing toes aswell apparently,also fingers!never realised we had so many shooting related accidents here

mattjack

bazza888 wrote: »

theres alot of lads around missing toes aswell apparently,also fingers!never realised we had so many shooting related accidents here

I always thought if there was a shooting related accident AGS were called by hospitals,
in saying that I 've seen an accidental shooting a lad shot himself in the foot and decided to try and treat himself,eventually he had to go to the hospital.He ended up with blood poisoning , infections as well as terrible damage to his foot.

Double Barrel

There are three (3) acceptable gun handling practices, IMHO
Blays photo show two examples of safe gun operation in the field, actually 3 as the active shooter is safe.


On the firing line, always keep your gun pointed toward the ground or the traphouse.
Sometimes pictures work wonders.
Here is another safe handling practice:



Be AWARE and be SAFE.

garv123

Double Barrel wrote: »

There are three (3) acceptable gun handling practices, IMHO
Blays photo show two examples of safe gun operation in the field, actually 3 as the active shooter is safe.

IMO the guy on the left without the gun on his toe is at much as the guy on the right of shooting himself in the foot.. people do move their feet alot and dont keep them out of the way of the barrel.

Both are safe to me.