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Wind farm for the Midlands
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How do you take that out of that statement?
This is what annoys me, you clearly dont have a clue about whats actually involved in these projects but are more than happy to use it as a stick to beat the government. Something like this has the possibility to bring revenue into Ireland and the midlands. Rabbitte has said that Britain need to sort out the regulatory regime for this to make it viable and Kenny says they are going to look at it again and you describe it as failure mode.
On your concerns for the communities, there has been a public consultation on the wind energy guidelines this year for noise and shadow flicker which propose changes to bring them above international standards. And theres been a consultation on a policy for export energy so that proper planning is put in place and ABP have guidelines. Did you reply to either of those consultations?
Heres the problem - I SHOULDN'T need to be an expert on these projects - I am however entitled to question how the Govt is handling this - ie how they haven't consulted properly with communities or addressed their concerns. Im more focused on the sort of outcomes I would like to see happen - and how they might come about.
In terms of my thoughts on Endas comments - well Pat Rabbite himself - reckoned that the project won't make its deadline as there just too much work to be done in the time frame to the 2020 deadline for the EU targets.
Yet Kenny is still trying to force it forward - even though from what I can see the British don't seem to have a massive appitite for it.
There comes a time when you have to step back with something like this - and recognise that the projects in a sticky patch - and we need to step back and review - and work out the best way forward from here.
in terms of Regions - like the Midlands - I would like to see the best possible future for it. And would like to look at how we can create the most positive future for the Midlands and its communities.
That's the approach I would like to see been bought into the planning of this and indeed the future of the Midlands as a whole
Like I mean - im no expert on (for example) the inside workings of the Ambulance service - but I CAN STILL criticise the Ambulance service if I feel that the service it delivers isn't delivering the outcomes I would like in say the area of response times.
To me it looks like the Midlands is just seen as a place to put turbines - and I feel that's a negative view to take of an area - and would prefer to have a more positive outlook.
I would prefer a more integrated approach based on creating a positive future for communities - and integrating wind energy and related projects - into a POSITIVE community future.
I feel that hasn't happened yet- and that's why im critical of the whole process to date.
Rather then having a planning system that just pretends communities and houses aren't actually there - that's how the approach to this project to date looks like to me.
I welcome more revenue into Ireland BUT id simply prefer to see it done in a way that looks at a Region like the Midlands in a more positive light.
I also feel that questions have to be asked if the new export industry for the Midlands causes concerns for an existing horse industry that feels that said new industry.
I think that merits far more attention from Govt then its received to date - and their apparent lack of attention to horse industry concerns is worrying in terms of their approach to achieving a positive solution to all.
There is little point in pursuing say 6,500 jobs in wind energy export from the Midlands - if you lose an industry with 14,000 jobs - that does not make sense - and I don't need to be an expert on anything whatsoever to work that one out.
Yeah ive been annoying again - but the issue I have is - I would like to achieve some of the same results - ie more revenue, jobs etc - but id like to do it differently.
I recognise wind turbines as an essential part of our electricity infrastructure but believe that we need to plan them in the best way possible - and look at how you can have community living and turbines working away in Ireland without either causing issue for the other.
Anway I know im not the most knowledgeable person - and I know im a contrary one - but I don't think a lot of my views are terribly wrong or unreasonable 0 -
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thats the issue - in Meath they had a public consultation - the CC can up with a set of guidelines and the DoE (J.O'Sullivan) came in and used her powers to try and overrule the decision.
So lip service is sometimes paid to public consultation
Also the NREP was never consulted on - nor was the renewable targets
Search for Pat Swords
http://www.turn180.ie/2013/03/18/operation-of-wind-turbines-and-legal-liability/
See that's exactly it Francis - this plan isn't about driving communities forward - because if it was - it would be planned differently.
What I would love - and it doesn't matter what I think - because im wrong anyway.
But what id love is this - creating a future plan for regions and communities based on achieving the best possible future for them and their people.
Do that - and work in the energy planning around that - and focus on people from ALL OVER Ireland - including Dublin too
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We are going wrong because - of things like Jan O Sullivan deciding she can't be bothered actually understanding why councillors representing people actually took decisions with the aim of addressing the concerns of the people they represent.
The way to handle that was - is to understand the concerns that led to the Westmeath decision in their CDP to have a 10 times the height of the turbine setback distance - and for Jan O Sullivan as minister for PLANNING to work to address those concerns.0 -
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Unfortunately the Marshall Day report is woefully inadequate - for example the above mentioned 40db(A) is the Leq or L90 or what - Marshall Day are vague on this aspect. Additionally none of the appendices of the consultation where complete so it was not possible to understand the maths they where going to use to do any of the calculations
If you want a view on this report read all of http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/PlanningDevelopment/Planning/PublicConsultations/Submissions-WindEnergy/
but if you only want to read one then read http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/PlanningDevelopment/Planning/PublicConsultations/Submissions-WindEnergy/Unspecified/FileDownLoad,35130,en.pdf
the key table is the country by country limits table (sorry for formatting)
dB(LA90) Type Period
South Australia 35 Hybrid All
Victoria 35 Hybrid Night
Ontario 38 Hybrid All
Quebec 38 Hybrid Night
Alberta 38 Hybrid Night
Denmark 37 Absolute All
France 28 Hybrid Night
Germany 33 Absolute Night
and if you have time to read 2 then read
http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentHousing/PlanningDevelopment/Planning/PublicConsultations/Submissions-WindEnergy/Unspecified/FileDownLoad,36282,en.pdf
finally can I also recommend you read all of the Shiven ones under Cork
and Ray Byrne under Wexford
And if you want you can read mine which is also under wexford
Could I just say Francis - fair play to you for the work you've put in
I still have concerns with this whole project - even though I am not from the Midlands - but well - I will do a final wrap up post to clarify my thoughts later.
Think I will finish up my involvement with these 2 threads - so will be back later with a final set of "clearing the air" posts.0 -
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So national frame work is the right way to go then
http://www.turn180.ie/2014/01/01/why-eirgrids-pylon-grid-link-programme-is-illegal/
http://www.turn180.ie/2012/12/21/pat-swords-to-challenge-governments-renewable-energy-programme/
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/3/18/the-latest-from-pat-swords.html
the national frameworks were put in place without public consultation
And anyway - why not have different CDPs for every county - every county has different needs and requirements -why not put a few turbines in Phoenix Park - you could get you 500m separation, noise would not be an issue (background noise in high in Dublin) and you could make them 300M high to get above the trees etc
But this would be unacceptable - so why can't Meath or Kerry or Cork have their own set of guidelines. They have it for house building styles to fit in with the local vernacular structures
Its a good point you make on the idea of every county having different needs and requirements.
What id like to see is a plan that works as well as possible for as many communities as possible.
Theres a worrying issue here that i think would be difficult to resolve for all parties involved - Govt and communities and others.
It revolves around the issue - if how we see communities like say in Westmeath.
Do we see place like this - in terms of how we can put up turbines there - or how many turbines we can squeeze in.
Or do i look at a village in Westmeath as a place where people live - and look at their needs and what future they want for themselves and their community.
I think theres an issue here in terms of mindset - this project is been put forward as a step forward for the Midlands.
But WHO is it making the Midlands better for - IF WE want to create a future for the PEOPLE of the Midlands - then wouldn't we get better results from that - if the people are able to get the chance to shape the future THEY WANT.
Because if we aren't giving the people the opportunity to shape their future and that of their communities - then surely it could be argued that this project ISN'T about driving the Midlands forward for the PEOPLE there.
The way i see it is this - if your focus as a Govt in terms of this project was about the people of the Midlands - then surely - a community based project would deliver better returns for COMMUNITIES.
But that may not deliver the scale that some would say is needed or wanted.
Theres a town in Scotland - that has their own community wind farm - on the go wit 4 turbines - and they are using that as a platform to achieve their 2030 plan - which essentially is about securing the future of the town and making it stronger.
Now you have to ask - where is that sort of thinking in the Midlands project - its just not happening.
The claimes jobs figures are all over the place - you had the ridiculous figures of 54,000 claimed by one of the developers when he was quoted in a local paper some time back.
But now Pat Rabbite has scaled back to 6,500 when quoted in an article a few days ago.
To put 6,500 into perspective - the Horse industry employs 14,000 - and it has concerns over the turbines btw.
And Mary Kennedy in Nationwide last night stated that the fishing industry employs 11,000 - this been an industry many would say is in decline.
Still employing 11,000 people according to Mary Kennedy.0 -
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