Why Are Irish Rail Failing so badly

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

a train at 100mph having to stop in an emergency with people stood in the vestibules is not where I'd like to be. It's an accident of history that you are allowed stand on a train at that speed, you aren't allowed stand on an express coach or a plane, time to stop it on trains too. Commuter trains and city buses are a different matter.

Are you saying then that its ok to stand on the commuter thats travelling 100mph?

Hilly Bill

AnthonyB wrote: »

I paid €95 for a return Cork Dublin first class ticket. Website says Cork-Dublin is city gold, plush seats and all that. Looking forward to some sleep after staying up too late watching the elections. Cork Dublin first class is now (drum roll please) the dining car! Hard seats, the rest of the train looks much more comfortable. Only thing going for it is the power socket.

This is a complete rip off - not that they're charging too much (which they are) but because on their website where I booked the ticket, they promise one level of service, then deliver another.

Have you e-mailed them or filled a feedback form?

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

but there isn't a booking facility on the Dart anyway. Commuter trains is one thing but on a long distance train, you ought to be guaranteed a seat and the way to do this is all-booking.

There isn't a proper working booking facility on any Irish trains whether they are commuter or intercity express, the only booked seats which are guaranteed would be on reserved rail tours and possibly in first class, after that it's a free for all!

The Idyl Race wrote: »

That's remarkable, going online now for any Saturday train shows 2 x adults for €17.80 each and one child @ €8.50, totalling €44.10. Allow €3 for parking, so €47.10 is a long way off from €70.

Still dearer than your quoted diesel though.

that is the problem with Irish rail, they are the dearest but there is no way to cut costs without cutting services. Rail travel is just damned expensive in such a small country!

AnthonyB wrote: »

I paid €95 for a return Cork Dublin first class ticket. Website says Cork-Dublin is city gold, plush seats and all that. Looking forward to some sleep after staying up too late watching the elections. Cork Dublin first class is now (drum roll please) the dining car! Hard seats, the rest of the train looks much more comfortable. Only thing going for it is the power socket.

This is a complete rip off - not that they're charging too much (which they are) but because on their website where I booked the ticket, they promise one level of service, then deliver another.

get a refund! They sold you a service but failed to provide that service. You should be entitled to a full cash refund!

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you saying then that its ok to stand on the commuter thats travelling 100mph?

what commuter service does 100mph?

corktina

foggy_lad wrote: »

There isn't a proper working booking facility on any Irish trains whether they are commuter or intercity express, the only booked seats which are guaranteed would be on reserved rail tours and possibly in first class, after that it's a free for all!

t

yep, and it's that is one of the things that puts me off travel by train. If you have a system where your name is displayed above the seat it should be IEs responsibility to make SURE you get that seat (or your money back)

Judgement Day

corktina wrote: »

yep, and it's that is one of the things that puts me off travel by train. If you have a system where your name is displayed above the seat it should be IEs responsibility to make SURE you get that seat (or your money back)

How do you do that when you've effectively de-staffed the train apart from the driver? Perhaps it could be subbed out to Rail Gourmet and they could be supplied with cattle goads or mace.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

yep, and it's that is one of the things that puts me off travel by train. If you have a system where your name is displayed above the seat it should be IEs responsibility to make SURE you get that seat (or your money back)

It works arseways at the moment, if you book from mallow to Dublin that seat should show your reservation "mr cortina from mallow" from the time the train starts boarding in Cork. But in reality what happens is someone boards in Cork and sits in that seat because it is not shown as reserved, then when the train stops in mallow the reservation shows on your seat but another passenger has already been using the seat from Cork and can't be moved as the seat was not shown as reserved when they boarded! Arseways! Irish Rails speciality!

bk

And the worst of it, is that they have the cheek to charge a fee for "reserving" a seat like this!!

At the moment I think IR are trying to have the best of both worlds. Airline style online bookings and charges, with no staff or service around.

I think IR will end up more following the Dutch model. Max price €20 single, no reserved seats, can just walk up and pay at the station (machines, extra charge for using ticket counter).

Basically operate it more like a Bus service, which it is increasingly like anyway due to the understandable lack of staff onboard.

On some routes, like Cork, you might be able to have a first class, where a first class ticket guarantees you a reserved seat, but I'm not sure there would even be much demand for this.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

what commuter service does 100mph?

Take your pick.

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

yep, and it's that is one of the things that puts me off travel by train. If you have a system where your name is displayed above the seat it should be IEs responsibility to make SURE you get that seat (or your money back)

If some passengers showed a bit of respect towards those that booked those seats then there wouldnt be a problem. Its the same in theatres, some will sit where they want until someone else comes along with the ticket for that seat. On trains , a few will just refuse to move which is poor form.
Some on here are calling on IR to cut staff but the answer here would be to have someone on the train to ensure that you get the seat . Is that really needed in this day and age? cant people show a bit of respect anymore?
The only money you should get back is the cost of reserving the seat which is €3 each way.

AnthonyB

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Have you e-mailed them or filled a feedback form?

Three tweets, no response. Life's too short...

intellectual dosser

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If some passengers showed a bit of respect towards those that booked those seats then there wouldnt be a problem. Its the same in theatres, some will sit where they want until someone else comes along with the ticket for that seat. On trains , a few will just refuse to move which is poor form.
Some on here are calling on IR to cut staff but the answer here would be to have someone on the train to ensure that you get the seat . Is that really needed in this day and age? cant people show a bit of respect anymore?
The only money you should get back is the cost of reserving the seat which is €3 each way.

Do you love Irish Rail or did you start off defending them and now its a "Someone on the internet is wrong" situation.

Do you think IE provide a good, cost effective, reliable service?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

It works arseways at the moment, if you book from mallow to Dublin that seat should show your reservation "mr cortina from mallow" from the time the train starts boarding in Cork. But in reality what happens is someone boards in Cork and sits in that seat because it is not shown as reserved, then when the train stops in mallow the reservation shows on your seat but another passenger has already been using the seat from Cork and can't be moved as the seat was not shown as reserved when they boarded! Arseways! Irish Rails speciality!

Cant be moved from Cork to Mallow but can be moved at Mallow . Put it like this, if i had a seat reserved from Mallow and you were sat in that seat and refused to move after i showed you that i had it reserved then you would be out of that seat and half way down the carriage in quick time.
Refusing to move for such a trivial reason is just pure ignorance and especially if that person was on a freebie.

dowlingm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

does the length of the train NEED to fit on all platforms on a services? ie. If a platform is 75m long is it allowed by law (or standard practices) to accommodate a train 100m long? I seem to recall being on trains and the driver announcing that passengers wishing to get off at the next stop should move to the top of the train.

The rules changed so now unless a driver/staff member can control the doors such that ONLY those which open onto a platform work then the train length is limited to the length of the platform. The 22000 and 29000 series do not as of now have selective door opening, so 6x22 and 8x29 consists are not permitted. Some people think that we should just do as we used to, but IE could not afford the claims that would certainly result.

IE's standard platform lengths are 90m on branch lines and 176m on mainlines which accommodate 3 x 22K/4 x 26/28/29 and 6 x 22K/8 x 26/28/29 respectively. The problem with the Rosslare line is that physical issues like adjacent bridges or sufficient reasonably flat land make it near impossible to extend the line's platforms to 176m.

Hilly Bill

AnthonyB wrote: »

Three tweets, no response. Life's too short...

Try mailing them or fill out the feedback form at your local station and then ring the customer service number if you have a genuine gripe over it.

Hilly Bill

bk wrote: »

And the worst of it, is that they have the cheek to charge a fee for "reserving" a seat like this!!

At the moment I think IR are trying to have the best of both worlds. Airline style online bookings and charges, with no staff or service around.

I think IR will end up more following the Dutch model. Max price €20 single, no reserved seats, can just walk up and pay at the station (machines, extra charge for using ticket counter).

Basically operate it more like a Bus service, which it is increasingly like anyway due to the understandable lack of staff onboard.

On some routes, like Cork, you might be able to have a first class, where a first class ticket guarantees you a reserved seat, but I'm not sure there would even be much demand for this.

It wont be long before the booking offices closes and the only option will be the TVM's or online.

kopfan77

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Take your pick.

Can you not provide an answer as you claimed there are commuter services operating at these speeds and you were asked which ones specifically...I would like to know

Hilly Bill

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Do you love Irish Rail or did you start off defending them and now its a "Someone on the internet is wrong" situation.

Do you think IE provide a good, cost effective, reliable service?

Do i love Irish Rail? No far from it.

Do i think they provide a good, cost effective, reliable service?

I do in parts but open to improvement.

Hilly Bill

kopfan77 wrote: »

Can you not provide an answer as you claimed there are commuter services operating at these speeds and you were asked which ones specifically...I would like to know

Like i said take your pick. If the line speed allows them to do it then they can.

end of the road

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Some on here are calling on IR to cut staff

for me staff should only be cut if their isn't a job for them, their should be someone else on the train, the driver has enough to do driving the train without having to deal with passengers, such a system of having driver only trains may work in other countries but i'd imagine theirs very few if any uncivilised and ferrile ever on those trains as they wouldn't be tolerated.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

the answer here would be to have someone on the train to ensure that you get the seat . Is that really needed in this day and age?

yes

Hilly Bill wrote: »

cant people show a bit of respect anymore?

most of us do but their are a lot who don't so we need a conductor back on the trains to deal with them

Solair

I think passengers also need to be a little bit less accepting about people taking their seats.

I see this regularly.

"oh you're in my seat".
"Oh am I?"
"Ah sure it's grand I'll find another one!" (ends up standing beside the toilet)

If you did that in France it would be like:

"Oh you're in my seat"
"Oh am I?"
"Yes you are..." (looking very angry)

If the passenger didn't move there'd be a stand-up row.

I find Irish people can be a little too passive about stuff like this.

If someone's in your seat, turf them out. There's really no excuse on a train system that actually displays your name over the seat and has regular announcements asking people not to occupy pre-booked seats.

It's a cultural thing in both Ireland and to a degree in England that people just won't make a 'scene' when they're being totally walked over by some bully.

Sitting in someone's pre-booked seat is extremely rude, disrespectful, and basically just throwing your weight around because you think you're more important. I don't see it as any different from the bully at school taking your lunch money.

I've also had "Oh sure we don't really do booking in Ireland do we"
from someone sat in my seat. I just stood there looking very annoyed and he moved.

Irish rail need to enforce their seat booking policy too, much like an airline does it.
If you sat in someone else's seat on an Aer Lingus flight, you'd be politely but firmly moved. I can 100% assure you of it.
If you didn't move and argued the point, you'd be asked to leave the aircraft.

If you don't bother enforcing the rules, you just allow chaos to take over.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

for me staff should only be cut if their isn't a job for them, their should be someone else on the train, the driver has enough to do driving the train without having to deal with passengers, such a system of having driver only trains may work in other countries but i'd imagine theirs very few if any uncivilised and ferrile ever on those trains as they wouldn't be tolerated.

yes

most of us do but their are a lot who don't so we need a conductor back on the trains to deal with them

I agree, but it with the attitude of some it could be the STT guys you would need not a train host. There is a guard on the Enterprise , has anyone had any issues regarding someone refusing to move from your pre-booked seat on this service?

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Some people think that we should just do as we used to, but IE could not afford the claims that would certainly result.

true, however if
1. IE had anouncements to move twoards the back or front of the train.
2. judges stopped awarding compensation to that sort when they would have been warned.
they would be able to operate the old way until at least selective door opening was implemented, would mean rosslare services not having to put up with 29 k or 3 piece cattle carts.

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

How do you do that when you've effectively de-staffed the train apart from the driver? Perhaps it could be subbed out to Rail Gourmet and they could be supplied with cattle goads or mace.

they do it on airlines successfully. Never yet seen a dispute on Aer Lingus...

corktina

Solair wrote: »

I think passengers also need to be a little bit less accepting about people taking their seats.

I see this regularly.

"oh you're in my seat".
"Oh am I?"
"Ah sure it's grand I'll find another one!" (ends up standing beside the toilet)

If you did that in France it would be like:

"Oh you're in my seat"
"Oh am I?"
"Yes you are..." (looking very angry)

If the passenger didn't move there'd be a stand-up row.

I find Irish people can be a little too passive about stuff like this.

If someone's in your seat, turf them out. There's really no excuse on a train system that actually displays your name over the seat and has regular announcements asking people not to occupy pre-booked seats.

It's a cultural thing in both Ireland and to a degree in England that people just won't make a 'scene' when they're being totally walked over by some bully.

Sitting in someone's pre-booked seat is extremely rude, disrespectful, and basically just throwing your weight around because you think you're more important. I don't see it as any different from the bully at school taking your lunch money.

I've also had "Oh sure we don't really do booking in Ireland do we"
from someone sat in my seat. I just stood there looking very annoyed and he moved.

Irish rail need to enforce their seat booking policy too, much like an airline does it.
If you sat in someone else's seat on an Aer Lingus flight, you'd be politely but firmly moved. I can 100% assure you of it.
If you didn't move and argued the point, you'd be asked to leave the aircraft.

If you don't bother enforcing the rules, you just allow chaos to take over.

the trouble is you move bodily the person in your seat, you end up sharing a bay for a couple of hours with the rest of his family......

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

they do it on airlines successfully. Never yet seen a dispute on Aer Lingus...

Here is the difference. Planes fly and go a lot faster than 120mph . What do you think would happen if the plane took off and landed with people standing in the aisles and not strapped in?

Hilly Bill

corktina wrote: »

the trouble is you move bodily the person in your seat, you end up sharing a bay for a couple of hours with the rest of his family......

Personally i wouldnt care including if its an Oap, visually impaired , or a child. They shouldnt be there in the first place. If i have to sit with their family for the rest of the journey then so be it.

LeftBlank

foggy_lad wrote: »

It works arseways at the moment, if you book from mallow to Dublin that seat should show your reservation "mr cortina from mallow" from the time the train starts boarding in Cork. But in reality what happens is someone boards in Cork and sits in that seat because it is not shown as reserved, then when the train stops in mallow the reservation shows on your seat but another passenger has already been using the seat from Cork and can't be moved as the seat was not shown as reserved when they boarded! Arseways! Irish Rails speciality!

On 22000s it's shown as "Reserved from <station>". Not sure about the Mk4 but wouldn't be surprised if something similar was possible.

corktina

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Here is the difference. Planes fly and go a lot faster than 120mph . What do you think would happen if the plane took off and landed with people standing in the aisles and not strapped in?

much the same as if a train hit the deck at 100mph....

Hilly Bill

And whats the chances of a train falling from the sky at 30 thousand feet? A train doesnt do wheelies when it moves off nor does it land on its back wheels when it arrives at a station.