Immigration

atkin

My Non -Eu separated wife has an Irish Passport she still lives in my house.
The separation agreement states that she has no longer an interest in the house.The reason she remains is that she is looking for a local authority house.
I discovered that she wants to bring her Mother here and suspect she will try to move her into my house.I am away sometimes for 1 month .
What steps can I take to prevent this without a court or solicitor fees.
Any help appreciated .

johnnyskeleton

Have you considered telling her that her mother is not welcome in your house?

atkin

Yes told her before she left for a week ! The immigration law on this outside of children is grey up to the Minister's decision.I just need to protect myself from what is now a monster.:eek:

Cavehill Red

What's the problem with simply evicting her before her mother arrives?

juan.kerr

Cavehill Red wrote: »

What's the problem with simply evicting her before her mother arrives?

From the house or the country?

Logain

If Your 'non-eu' wife has an Irish passport, she is an Irish citizen and an EU citizen.

Cavehill Red

juan.kerr wrote: »

From the house or the country?

From the house obviously. She's an Irish citizen apparently.

juan.kerr

Cavehill Red wrote: »

From the house obviously. She's an Irish citizen apparently.

I was confused by the title.

atkin

Logain wrote: »

If Your 'non-eu' wife has an Irish passport, she is an Irish citizen and an EU citizen.

Correct . There is a grey area about the grant of residence to non Eu parents .
The passport was granted without my knowledge.I wonder can she apply for her mother to come as a tourist without my knowledge and stay in my house!!

atkin

Logain wrote: »

If Your 'non-eu' wife has an Irish passport, she is an Irish citizen and an EU citizen.

Correct . There is a grey area about the grant of residence to non Eu parents .
The passport was granted without my knowledge.I wonder can she apply for her mother to come as a tourist without my knowledge and stay in my house!!

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

Correct . There is a grey area about the grant of residence to non Eu parents .
The passport was granted without my knowledge.I wonder can she apply for her mother to come as a tourist without my knowledge and stay in my house!!

There is no grey area about the grant of residence to Non EU parents. If the parent is a visa required national they will need a visa. If not they can enter and reside for 90 days. If a non EU parent (I am not dealing with free movement as it does not apply) wishes to reside for a longer period then they will have to apply for a long term visa. While there are no set rules such a parent would need to show sufficient income so as not to be a burden on the Irish state.

A tourist visa will only allow 90 days in the country, while they can be extended it is rarely done. If you are not supporting the application then it would have little chance of success.

atkin

Well in practice such procedures can be different in my experience.

mattjack

From your other thread :

atkin

Registered User

Divorce Foreign national
Hi,
I am an Irish citizen married to a foreign national.
This woman came here sought asylum 2001 and married me in June 2006.
The marriage was one of convenience to allow her daughter to come here and for her to get residence.

How 'bout handing yourself into the Gardai and admitting your sham marriage.

barrackali

If this is a sham marriage the OP deserves no help, in fact the OP should do time!

Our man in Havana

A sham would be very hard to prove.

atkin

mattjack wrote: »

From your other thread :

atkin

Registered User

Divorce Foreign national
Hi,
I am an Irish citizen married to a foreign national.
This woman came here sought asylum 2001 and married me in June 2006.
The marriage was one of convenience to allow her daughter to come here and for her to get residence.

How 'bout handing yourself into the Gardai and admitting your sham marriage.

I sent a signed letter to the INIS refusing to support her application for a passport .I told the authorities about her past working illegally and the marriage was not valid.They replied noted and granted her a passport .

atkin

barrackali wrote: »

If this is a sham marriage the OP deserves no help, in fact the OP should do time!

I admitted this to the INIS and refused to support her passport application .
The replied noted and granted her a passport.

atkin

barrackali wrote: »

If this is a sham marriage the OP deserves no help, in fact the OP should do time!

I admitted this to the INIS and refused to support her passport application .
They replied noted and granted her a passport.
The Free Legal Aid have agreed to make the divorce knowing the facts.

Our man in Havana

The marriage would be valid in the eyes of the state. How is a sham defined?

atkin

As the thread has gone off track.I wish they would put me in prison so I could learn a new career now I am unemployed. Now can I move on to my original post !!

atkin

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The marriage would be valid in the eyes of the state. How is a sham defined?

They are completely arranged without children.I guess its the first thing to note.The foreign women in my case look for a visa ,support for children,new life a dream and it goes sour.I just want to move on simply.
I would like to see the stamp 3 being used more often .I have foreign friends that like to visit me.You have an exit stamp on the visa you pay for the registration .You cannot work ,welfare etc.The old sponsor method rather than someone going through the asylum process to stay here .I am happy if they come on a tourist visa if they are not more strict on it.I will probably end up with the local TD again.
Got any idea how legitimately I can prove a relationship of 2 years.passport stamps visas, plane tickets .
Digital camera with a date ,emails ,kiss in front of a lawyer, HELL show a bouncing baby DNA test and all.(not likely I am neutered)
The Doc said just as well with the knife in his hand.I asked him could I freeze it he said NOt yours.

IrishAm

Our man in Havana wrote: »

A sham would be very hard to prove.

It is not illegal in Ireland to organise a marriage for money or to enter into a sham marriage.

Monife

IrishAm wrote: »

It is not illegal in Ireland to organise a marriage for money or to enter into a sham marriage.

True. The only power INIS have over sham marriages is to refuse an application for residency in which they believe the marriage is a sham.

OP, you shouldn't have entered a sham marriage. I am afraid you are stuck with the consequences now as she has been naturalised as an Irish citizen. If she is on the housing list, I will assume she is on the dole. Therefore, her mother has little chance of being approved a tourist visa unless she has a decent amount of funds herself, because her sponsor (your ex-wife) probably could not fund her stay.

They should bring in legislation (like other EU countries) to combat sham marriages. Then perhaps the genuine applications wouldn't be treated with such suspicion and delay and even undeserved refusals.

seb65

ResearchWill wrote: »

There is no grey area about the grant of residence to Non EU parents. If the parent is a visa required national they will need a visa. If not they can enter and reside for 90 days. If a non EU parent (I am not dealing with free movement as it does not apply) wishes to reside for a longer period then they will have to apply for a long term visa. While there are no set rules such a parent would need to show sufficient income so as not to be a burden on the Irish state.

A tourist visa will only allow 90 days in the country, while they can be extended it is rarely done. If you are not supporting the application then it would have little chance of success.

I believe that is incorrect. The Zambrano case has found that EU children have a right to their Non-EU parents, without any consideration given as to whether it is necessary for the citizens (children) to exercise their right of free movement. The Irish government has had to now completely halt deporting non-eu parents - and effectively their EU children - from the state. In fact, they have had to allow previously deported non-eu parents and their EU children back into the state. A completely cruel practice they were doing anyways.

atkin

seb65 wrote: »

I believe that is incorrect. The Zambrano case has found that EU children have a right to their Non-EU parents, without any consideration given as to whether it is necessary for the citizens (children) to exercise their right of free movement. The Irish government has had to now completely halt deporting non-eu parents - and effectively their EU children - from the state. In fact, they have had to allow previously deported non-eu parents and their EU children back into the state. A completely cruel practice they were doing anyways.

The children in my case are step children and non EU .I have lived with her now for 11 years.
Yes I pay the consequences and warn others not to fall into a trap of supporting other women's children.
You get no gratitude and only abuse like what you see directed at me here.
The immigration system allowed her to come here stay get a PPS number, work illegally, FIS and leave to remain.

mattjack

atkin wrote: »

The children in my case are step children and non EU .
Yes I pay the consequences and warn others not to fall into a trap of supporting other women's children.You get no gratitude and only abuse like what you see directed at me.

Nobody gave you abuse, you told us,yourself, it was a marriage of convenience .To a certain degree , it does sound like you were duped by this woman and now you appear to be trying to make her life as difficult as is possible.
If its your house can you not tell her to leave, you say she she works .. maybe she can support herself.

atkin

The separation agreement states that she has no interest in the house .
Yes at the time of marriage she said she loved me etc but after a year she moved to another bed and said she never loved me.
A judge in any court will not grant a divorce unless she has accommodation.
Her earning are low with the recession now.

ResearchWill

seb65 wrote: »

I believe that is incorrect. The Zambrano case has found that EU children have a right to their Non-EU parents, without any consideration given as to whether it is necessary for the citizens (children) to exercise their right of free movement. The Irish government has had to now completely halt deporting non-eu parents - and effectively their EU children - from the state. In fact, they have had to allow previously deported non-eu parents and their EU children back into the state. A completely cruel practice they were doing anyways.

My post stated clearly it was not dealing with free movement that is I was not dealing with any EU issues, as non existed, it was an Irish guy living in Ireland with his non eu but now citizen wife, her non eu child and in the future her non eu mother. Zambrano does not apply, also Zambrano only applies when the deportation of the non eu parent will result in the removal of the EU citizen child from the union. Zambrano does not give a 40 year old citizen the right to move their 80 year old non eu citizen into the union.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

The separation agreement states that she has no interest in the house .
Yes at the time of marriage she said she loved me etc but after a year she moved to another bed and said she never loved me.
A judge in any court will not grant a divorce unless she has accommodation.
Her earning are low with the recession now.

Why not apply for a nulity, if she is as calculating as you say then she had no intention of entering into and maintaining maritial relationships.

atkin

ResearchWill wrote: »

Why not apply for a nulity, if she is as calculating as you say then she had no intention of entering into and maintaining maritial relationships.

No had a barrister look at the case said nullity was not an option.
I will go for a divorce which has agreed to at present.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

No had a barrister look at the case said nullity was not an option.
I will go for a divorce which has agreed to at present.

So then a legal expert after hearing your story in full, decided it was not a sham marriage, it was entered into fairly by both parties, who intended to enter and maintain maritial relationships.

You tell us ye have lived together for 11 years, yet she claimed Asylum in 2001,11 years ago. Ye lived together from 2001 to 2006 when ye got married, that's 5 years of I assume good times. Then you would have to have remained married for another 3 years for her to apply for citizenship. Then at some point things go sour. But you keep living with her, I really don't understand, what's going on to be honest.

atkin

ResearchWill wrote: »

So then a legal expert after hearing your story in full, decided it was not a sham marriage, it was entered into fairly by both parties, who intended to enter and maintain maritial relationships.

You tell us ye have lived together for 11 years, yet she claimed Asylum in 2001,11 years ago. Ye lived together from 2001 to 2006 when ye got married, that's 5 years of I assume good times. Then you would have to have remained married for another 3 years for her to apply for citizenship. Then at some point things go sour. But you keep living with her, I really don't understand, what's going on to be honest.

We have an open marriage since 2007 .The reason I live with her is frankly I cannot remove her from my house .A divorce can only be granted if she agrees .This she will agree to if she gets a local authority house.
You ever put your fingers in glue .

IrishAm

You got married in 2006. You must be legally resident in the state for five years and time spent as an asylum scammer doesn't count, so the earliest she could have applied for citizenship was in 2011. The processing time is 24 months.

So how did receive Irish citizenship so quickly?

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

You got married in 2006. You must be legally resident in the state for five years and time spent as an asylum scammer doesn't count, so the earliest she could have applied for citizenship was in 2011. The processing time is 24 months.

So how did receive Irish citizenship so quickly?

It's 3 years legal residence for a spouse of an Irish citizen, those applications from what I have seen are also decided quicker, so her application could have been made is 2009.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's 3 years legal residence for a spouse of an Irish citizen, those applications from what I have seen are also decided quicker, so her application could have been made is 2009.

Forgot about that. Its Sunday, these mistakes are allowed.

atkin

IrishAm wrote: »

You got married in 2006. You must be legally resident in the state for five years and time spent as an asylum scammer doesn't count, so the earliest she could have applied for citizenship was in 2011. The processing time is 24 months.

So how did receive Irish citizenship so quickly?

She applied in 2009 which is possible and wait another 24 months.

ResearchWill

atkin wrote: »

We have an open marriage since 2007 .The reason I live with her is frankly I cannot remove her from my house .A divorce can only be granted if she agrees .This she will agree to if she gets a local authority house.
You ever put your fingers in glue .

You are incorrect about her having to agree to a divorce. We have a no fault divorce system, once you can show that you are separated for the required time the court will grant divorce once satisfied proper provision has been made. I assume that is the issue proper provision.

So just so I have this right, this lady and you meet, either before or after her arival in the state. She could not get a permission so she claimed asylum want through the process for 5 years and refused. Then she married you in 2006 and she was given stamp 4. Then ye have had an open relationship since 2007 and a separation at some stage. Now she continues to live in your house because I assume neither of ye can afford to rent or buy. Now ye want a divorce but as you don't want her to live in your house or sell the house and divide up the assets, she and you want the Iridh state to house her and children so you can get her out of your life. You wonder why I am confused that you have an issue with the immigration system.

atkin

ResearchWill wrote: »

You are incorrect about her having to agree to a divorce. We have a no fault divorce system, once you can show that you are separated for the required time the court will grant divorce once satisfied proper provision has been made. I assume that is the issue proper provision.

So just so I have this right, this lady and you meet, either before or after her arival in the state. She could not get a permission so she claimed asylum want through the process for 5 years and refused. Then she married you in 2006 and she was given stamp 4. Then ye have had an open relationship since 2007 and a separation at some stage. Now she continues to live in your house because I assume neither of ye can afford to rent or buy. Now ye want a divorce but as you don't want her to live in your house or sell the house and divide up the assets, she and you want the Iridh state to house her and children so you can get her out of your life. You wonder why I am confused that you have an issue with the immigration system.

Like you said the courts would not grant a divorce unless there is proper provision. My house was bought and paid for I am not about so sell it and give her half the money.The woman never paid 1 cent for it. I have a separation agreement that she has no right to the house.I can apply for a divorce on this too even if she lives there.

Zambia

If you have been married since 2007 isn't it both your house?

I disagree with Researchs assessment it sounds to me like you want the Irish State to remove her from the Country as opposed to housing her.

IrishAm

If you are not legally longterm resident in the state, you should not be allowed marry. Its pretty common for fraudulent asylum seekers to marry naive EU/Irish citizen to circumvent Irish immigration law, when it becomes apparent that their bullshyte claims will be rejected.

Sham marriages have gotten so widespread here, that the Latvian authorities have even getting involved, to protect their own citizens. Its a joke.

We are a small island. Its pretty easy to control the borders.

IrishAm

Revoking citizenship
The Minister for Justice and Equality can revoke your certificate of naturalisation if:

You obtained it through fraud, misrepresentation or concealment of material facts or circumstances
You have, through an overt act, failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State
You were ordinarily resident outside Ireland (other than in public service) for a continuous period of 7 years and, without a reasonable excuse, did not register your name and a declaration of your intention to retain Irish citizenship with an Irish diplomatic mission or consular office or with the Minister for Justice and Equality on an annual basis
You are also, under the law of a country at war with the State, a citizen of that country
You have, by any other voluntary act other than marriage or registration of civil partnership, acquired citizenship of another country.

If you want her out, tell her that unless she leaves your property, you will apply for her naturalisation to be rescinded based on the above.

No chance it would be, like. But it might get her to move on.

atkin

IrishAm wrote: »

Revoking citizenship
The Minister for Justice and Equality can revoke your certificate of naturalisation if:

You obtained it through fraud, misrepresentation or concealment of material facts or circumstances
You have, through an overt act, failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State
You were ordinarily resident outside Ireland (other than in public service) for a continuous period of 7 years and, without a reasonable excuse, did not register your name and a declaration of your intention to retain Irish citizenship with an Irish diplomatic mission or consular office or with the Minister for Justice and Equality on an annual basis
You are also, under the law of a country at war with the State, a citizen of that country
You have, by any other voluntary act other than marriage or registration of civil partnership, acquired citizenship of another country.

If you want her out, tell her that unless she leaves your property, you will apply for her naturalisation to be rescinded based on the above.

No chance it would be, like. But it might get her to move on.

From an earlier post .I wrote to the INIS and said I did not want to support her application for a passport .The marriage was for her child to come here and that she worked illegally before marriage.They replied noted and gave her the passport.

atkin

Zambia wrote: »

If you have been married since 2007 isn't it both your house?

I disagree with Researchs assessment it sounds to me like you want the Irish State to remove her from the Country as opposed to housing her.

Really the best option is that she get a house. I doubt if they will remove her as she has 4 children here too.

atkin

IrishAm wrote: »

If you are not legally longterm resident in the state, you should not be allowed marry. Its pretty common for fraudulent asylum seekers to marry naive EU/Irish citizen to circumvent Irish immigration law, when it becomes apparent that their bullshyte claims will be rejected.

Sham marriages have gotten so widespread here, that the Latvian authorities have even getting involved, to protect their own citizens. Its a joke.

We are a small island. Its pretty easy to control the borders.

Perhaps they should make a rule that no divorce can be applied until 5 years after the marriage.

Zambia

atkin wrote: »

Really the best option is that she get a house. I doubt if they will remove her as she has 4 children here too.

Fair Enough

I owe Research an Apology. Research sorry your assessment was correct.

But re the house she would have a cliam to it?

IrishAm

atkin wrote: »

Really the best option is that she get a house. I doubt if they will remove her as she has 4 children here too.

They will not remove her. Not a chance in hell, as she is now as Irish as you or I. You might not like that fact, but due to your actions in 2006, you were the one that helped facilitate it.

In fact, if shes savvy and it seems that she is, she will be looking to get her children naturalised, so they avoid non EU fees when attending college.

If I were you, I would focus on getting her out of your home instead of trying to get her deported. You have a chance with the former and none with the latter.

IrishAm

Zambia wrote: »

But re the house she would have a cliam to it?

A single mother with four childers. Not only would she have a claim for it, she would be bumped up the list. Its needs based, not time based.

I think you have to be in receipt of rent allowance to get on the housing list though. Not 100 per cent on that.

atkin

Zambia wrote: »

Fair Enough

I owe Research an Apology. Research sorry your assessment was correct.

But re the house she would have a cliam to it?

The claim was given up in the separation agreement.
Women will always have an agenda .
My first marriage an Irish woman, normal I met so many basket cases.
Agenda children.
Second marriage agenda, to help bring up her children and as you see.
No love.
I have a Ladyboy girlfriend now beautiful and easier.
I am hoping QED .

atkin

IrishAm wrote: »

A single mother with four childers. Not only would she have a claim for it, she would be bumped up the list. Its needs based, not time based.

I think you have to be in receipt of rent allowance to get on the housing list though. Not 100 per cent on that.

True.In the hands of the state nannies.
My immediate worry is she wants her Mother to live here, she is bored.

ResearchWill

IrishAm wrote: »

A single mother with four childers. Not only would she have a claim for it, she would be bumped up the list. Its needs based, not time based.

I think you have to be in receipt of rent allowance to get on the housing list though. Not 100 per cent on that.

No it's the other way around you need to be on the housing list to get rent allowance.

IrishAm

ResearchWill wrote: »

No it's the other way around you need to be on the housing list to get rent allowance.

Thanks. Anyway, it just reinforces my opinion about the quality of some people Shatter is awarding citizenship to. Fraudulent asylum seekers should never be awarded citizenship. Their whole basis of entering the country was based on lies.

EU citizens, welcome. Skilled non EU citizens, cead mile failte. Everyone else, slan leat.