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Revenue inspection fines

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    #32
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    As already siad only if ticket office is closed or no machine at station you are free to board. People need to arrive early and the timetable clearly states gates close 2 minutes before departure. (I know its not enforced but it should be).
    But it is not enforced but IE still hand out punitive fines when they are complicit in those being fined boarding without tickets!
    There is lots of Ticket Machiens in Heuston that have no queues to get tickets anld agree Carlow has issues that need to be addressed.
    How many machines are there in Athenry where the Senator boarded? Carlow and Many many other stations have issues with Tickets as well as platform accessibility with most stations not having lifts and instead having old dilapidated and downright dangerous footbridges which are lethal in wet weather and almost impossible for the elderly or those with mobility impairment. so add these other delays to delays in getting your ticket from the booking office and the train has left without you!

    I don't agree with the way she was treated but as already said the RPU were doing there job and there is a big deal being made but I see no reason why the first poster who was onbaord would make up what he posted and if true its not acceptable from a TD.
    Their job seems to be to discourage people from using Irish Rail at all for fear of unnecessary punitive penalties when the only thing they did wrong was to chose to travel by train!


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    #33
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Why would she not claim it as an legitimate travel expense?

    Because any fines incurred should be payed by her and not the tax payer.


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    #34
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Her travel expenses are to cover all the expenses of travelling to and from the seanad in the course of her work so being asked to attend at short notice and her being a busy person she arrived late at the station so gets fined for not having the time to buy a ticket and not wanting to hold up the train she boarded thinking she would be able to buy a ticket on board because this option was previously available!

    It is a travel expense and a legitimate one as it is an expense resulting directly from her travelling in the course of her work!

    Disband CIE/IE and let people who want Rail transport to continue in Ireland take over because Irish Rail seem preoccupied with alienating and discouraging all their passengers except the Quango CIE board types who frequent 1st class who are also on expenses.

    If she was able to purchase tickets on board on two previous occassions they should be available on every service!

    LOL :)


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    #35
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is entrappment plain and simple, because the company have given the impression that Tickets are available to buy on board trains they are enticing people to board without tickets if they arrive at stations at the last minute by making them believe that they can purchase a ticket on board!

    Irish Rail can't afford the bad publicity from this type of thing as even the normal passenger being entrapped like this loses the company a fortune every year as people turn to their own cars and to Gobus and Citylink to get them from Dublin to Galway and back! They are losing far more from cutting their nose off to spite their face than fare evasion could ever cost them!

    Entrappment ? :) This is better than the comedy channel ;)


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    #36
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    As expenses are generally unvouched i can't see this ever being an issue for her or any other senator or TD.
    And most of those same people will tell the ticket seller who is not RPU that they would have got a ticket at the station if the office was open/manned or if the Que was short enough that they would have time to get a ticket and then board the train without delaying the train!
    Next time she is at the ticket office on time she should wait and buy a ticket and demand that the train is held for her as clearly Irish Rail are not providing an efficient means of buying tickets at the station when a Que for the ticket office makes customers late for their train!

    The same thing regularly happens in Carlow where there will be upwards of 20 people waiting to buy tickets and due to issues with the credit card system being slow and staff being slow also the last in the Que are usually late boarding the train but it is usually ok as trains rarely depart Carlow on time!


    I also respect the fact she was treated exactly the same even though that included a certain amount of public humiliation which I'm sure the RPU people took no satisfaction in but my point is that NOBODY should be treated like this by any arm of the state whether civil service or semi-state.

    No one will miss their train if they arrived at the station in plenty of time. You cant blame anyone but the passengers for the last minute rush.

    Treated like what Foggy? You say that you respect that she was treated the same as anyone else but then say that nobody should be treated like that?

    Its really no big deal like its made out to be. She was issued a fine for what is now a standard practice for not having a valid ticket and she will appeal it. There is a chance that she will win the appeal at that will be that.
    If i was her id just pay the fine and put it down to experience and maybe at the same time write to Irish Rail and explain the situation.


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    #37
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    As expenses are generally unvouched i can't see this ever being an issue for her or any other senator or TD.
    And most of those same people will tell the ticket seller who is not RPU that they would have got a ticket at the station if the office was open/manned or if the Que was short enough that they would have time to get a ticket and then board the train without delaying the train!
    Next time she is at the ticket office on time she should wait and buy a ticket and demand that the train is held for her as clearly Irish Rail are not providing an efficient means of buying tickets at the station when a Que for the ticket office makes customers late for their train!

    The same thing regularly happens in Carlow where there will be upwards of 20 people waiting to buy tickets and due to issues with the credit card system being slow and staff being slow also the last in the Que are usually late boarding the train but it is usually ok as trains rarely depart Carlow on time!


    I also respect the fact she was treated exactly the same even though that included a certain amount of public humiliation which I'm sure the RPU people took no satisfaction in but my point is that NOBODY should be treated like this by any arm of the state whether civil service or semi-state.

    No one will miss their train if they arrived at the station in plenty of time. You cant blame anyone but the passengers for the last minute rush.

    Treated like what Foggy? You say that you respect that she was treated the same as anyone else but then say that nobody should be treated like that?

    Its really no big deal like its made out to be. She was issued a fine for what is now a standard practice for not having a valid ticket and she will appeal it. There is a chance that she will win the appeal at that will be that.
    If i was her id just pay the fine and put it down to experience and maybe at the same time write to Irish Rail and explain the situation.
    If you have to arrive in plenty of time for your train you may as well save yourself that extra 20 minutes by getting the bus, this will also save you the time and expense of getting from Heuston station into Dublin City.

    As I posted earlier they are cutting their nose off to spite their face but Irish Rail don't want passengers at all. They just want to keep getting millions every year and provide nothing for it!


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    #38
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,312 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    foggy - the bus doesn't exactly drop you to the door either. Alighting at O'Connell St still leaves a hike of just over a kilometre to Dail Eireann


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    #39
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    dowlingm wrote: »
    foggy - the bus doesn't exactly drop you to the door either. Alighting at O'Connell St still leaves a hike of just over a kilometre to Dail Eireann
    She can easily get the 145 either from Heuston or near O'Connell bridge which will leave her outside her place of work and getting it at Heuston she would be there before the train.


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    #40
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    If you have to arrive in plenty of time for your train you may as well save yourself that extra 20 minutes by getting the bus, this will also save you the time and expense of getting from Heuston station into Dublin City.

    As I posted earlier they are cutting their nose off to spite their face but Irish Rail don't want passengers at all. They just want to keep getting millions every year and provide nothing for it!

    For someone who hates Irish Rail with a passion and promotes the use of the bus instead you seem to use the train quite often ;)

    Cutting their noses off, dont want passengers, getting millions every year and provide nothing for it? You really dont know what you are talking about do you or are you just stirring the same pot with the same stick in all the rail threads just to have a pop at them in the hope you will achieve your dream of bringing down Irish Rail ?.


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    #41
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    She can easily get the 145 either from Heuston or near O'Connell bridge which will leave her outside her place of work and getting it at Heuston she would be there before the train.

    But she would have to pay for a ticket before taking a seat :)


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    #42
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    For someone who hates Irish Rail with a passion and promotes the use of the bus instead you seem to use the train quite often ;)

    Cutting their noses off, dont want passengers, getting millions every year and provide nothing for it? You really dont know what you are talking about do you or are you just stirring the same pot with the same stick in all the rail threads just to have a pop at them in the hope you will achieve your dream of bringing down Irish Rail ?.
    List things which Irish rail have done right recently which have led to significant increases in revenue or speeds without costing us taxpayers a fortune?

    They drive customers away with serious threats of very large fines and courts, they are not accountable for delays as there is always someone else to blame, they spend money like it is going off yet have little to show for it, more money is wasted on projects nobody needs or wants like the WRC and new agh branch line, darts have been cut in half recently despite only a small decrease in passenger numbers, they persist with outdated first class even though it is no different now to standard class on the 22000 DMU's they have platforms several minutes walk from booking offices yet don't include this time in the overall journey. I could go on but the Irish rail fans won't be reading this anyway, they are too tied up with figuring out how to screw the taxpayer even more.


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    #43
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    List things which Irish rail have done right recently which have led to significant increases in revenue or speeds without costing us taxpayers a fortune?

    They drive customers away with serious threats of very large fines and courts, they are not accountable for delays as there is always someone else to blame, they spend money like it is going off yet have little to show for it, more money is wasted on projects nobody needs or wants like the WRC and new agh branch line, darts have been cut in half recently despite only a small decrease in passenger numbers, they persist with outdated first class even though it is no different now to standard class on the 22000 DMU's they have platforms several minutes walk from booking offices yet don't include this time in the overall journey. I could go on but the Irish rail fans won't be reading this anyway, they are too tied up with figuring out how to screw the taxpayer even more.

    If you have a valid ticket like the majority of passengers then the threat of a fine for not having one wont effect you and it doesnt drive passengers away.
    This thread is about the Fine not about types of trains in use.
    Do you want the whole train parked at the booking office? Why are you so concerned anyway when you hate Irish rail with a passion and prefer to use the bus.


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    #44
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,675 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173739/Come-Senator--fare-cop--Fare-dodger-walked-past-separate-warnings-buy-ticket.html

    According to this there was 3 signs stating a ticket was required to board


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    #45
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    It will be interesting to see how the subvention for Irish Rail is affected by this fine.


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    #46
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2173739/Come-Senator--fare-cop--Fare-dodger-walked-past-separate-warnings-buy-ticket.html

    According to this there was 3 signs stating a ticket was required to board

    According to that article the ticket office was closed so according to the bye-laws the senator was entitled to board the train and buy her ticket at the earliest opportunity either on the train or at her destination!

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/si/0109.html
    4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.


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    #47
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    highlydebased wrote: »
    What is the reason that they won't sell tickets onboard anymore?

    Costs less to have a few roving MIB (sorry RPU) rather than a checker on every single train with a wad of tickets and/or toting a ticket machine.


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