Am I being selfish?

dermatrov

This is a strange question, but I am struggling with an answer.

Last year I volunteered for a charity and went abroad to Haiti for a week working on a project, having raised a lot of money doing it.

It was a very worthwhile experience, albeit mentally and physically tough.

I recently signed up again to go away later this year. I did however make an assumption that it would be ok with my family (my partner appeared to be very supportive the last time), as did my kids who were very proud of my trip and what I did etc.

My partner however made it very clear that my giving up my time, and taking a few days holiday from work to help others in a poor country was in fact selfish towards my own family. (charity begins at home etc etc)

I must say I am indeed stumped, as I didnt think this was a consideration (I do have 4 weeks holidays with my family aswell)

Has anybody any views on this (apart from calling me an idiot for not considering my family etc)

Am I being selfish giving up a week for strangers?

Thanks

Dermatrov

Rasheed

Well fair play to you for doing that, I think you are mighty for starters.
Is your partner maybe struggling with the children when you are gone?
Or maybe they just really miss you? Os maybe they are worried about you? Can't have been easy thinking of you over in Haiti, so far away with all the horror surrounding you?
Has your partner just mentioned that they are annoyed about you leaving the children?

dermatrov

Thanks Rasheed

TBH I think it was just that she thinks 2 years in a row fund raising and going away 'on my own' is selfish towards her and my kids.

Haiti was tough, it is hell on earth, but when you see the smiles on the faces of the people when you hand over their new home to them, or paint their church/orphanadge or whatever, it more than makes up for the dirt, heat, smells, sheer indescribable poverty you see.

Having seen that and some really horrible human realities, you wouldnt ordainarily think it would attract you back, and certainly not something that would draw you to instead of a nice week with your family, but, it does, the fact that you can in some very small way help a bit is attractive. I dont think it is selfish- but maybe thats the point. Maybe I am being selfish for not seeing that point. I dont know.


QUOTE=Rasheed;79580184]Well fair play to you for doing that, I think you are mighty for starters.
Is your partner maybe struggling with the children when you are gone?
Or maybe they just really miss you? Os maybe they are worried about you? Can't have been easy thinking of you over in Haiti, so far away with all the horror surrounding you?
Has your partner just mentioned that they are annoyed about you leaving the children?[/QUOTE]

Rasheed

Well I don't think you are but I'm not your partner! I mean I always wanted to volunteer for a month each summer in that Niall Mellon thing in Africa but health won't allow me so I can imagine that you'd want to go back and help.

As you said, you have four weeks off to spend with her and the children, it shouldnt be a major problem.

I suppose I can kinda see her point of view, but it's not as if you are going to Vegas with the lads! Maybe just chat her again, explain how you loved it, enjoyed making a difference and that you'll make it up to them when you get home! Throw in a big bottle of perfume from the duty free!

dory

Just to be devil advocate here: I see her point.

You do the fundraising, which probably takes up a lot of time and she might not like you asking friends and family for money.

Then you get to go over to Haiti in a week, unless you're highly skilled in some trade you're most likely taking a job from an unskilled local. Then you get to do your bit of work and get to feel great about it when you see the reaction of the very grateful locals.

They way she sees it you're flying off to a far away land to get an ego boost when people tell you you've changed their lives (when really they could have done the work themselves if the money was there) and all the while she's at home alone with the kids.

mooliki

I have a question, which, depending on the answer, may lead to seeing her point of view. Are there any times in the year, or past years were your partner has taken an equally long time to travel by herself to pursue her own wishes, leaving you in sole care of the children? Is it an equal share, where you get a week in the year to do something you feel passionately about and she takes a week in the year to follow a passion? I think the act of volunteer work is itself a mostly selfless endeavor, but within the context of a family relationship and isn't quite so straightforward.

dermatrov

dory

Are you being serious?

Fundraising, was mostly done by selling stuff I bought cheap and sold on and coffee mornings People got something for their money.

I have a skilled trade - my skills are not there locally

Feel great? I needed councilling, as some of what I seen I couldnt type (feel great? - Not how I would describe it. Feel worthwhile, like I was making a small difference to some peoples lives - yes.)

Ego boost? Maybe, but not for that reason. Becuase I genuinely felt I had contributed something good. (not enough though)

Do the work themselves...if they had the money....clearly you really have no clue about Haiti and the state the place is in. ....
9 million very poor people in a devastated place the size of Munster, with the lowest capital worth in the entire world, with no hope, only that people will help them.

Home with the kids? - again, wrong. She was on holidays when I was away working in 44 degree heat, 80% humidity for 14 hours a day.



)

dory wrote: »

Just to be devil advocate here: I see her point.

You do the fundraising, which probably takes up a lot of time and she might not like you asking friends and family for money.

Then you get to go over to Haiti in a week, unless you're highly skilled in some trade you're most likely taking a job from an unskilled local. Then you get to do your bit of work and get to feel great about it when you see the reaction of the very grateful locals.

They way she sees it you're flying off to a far away land to get an ego boost when people tell you you've changed their lives (when really they could have done the work themselves if the money was there) and all the while she's at home alone with the kids.

dermatrov

I agree it is complex, hence my post.

Does that mean people in a family space shoulnt do it?

When I was away, she too was away on holiday. That was her wish. She was resting, I was not. I could have gone on that too, but chose to help out very poor people instead. That was my wish.

mooliki wrote: »

I have a question, which, depending on the answer, may lead to seeing her point of view. Are there any times in the year, or past years were your partner has taken an equally long time to travel by herself to pursue her own wishes, leaving you in sole care of the children? Is it an equal share, where you get a week in the year to do something you feel passionately about and she takes a week in the year to follow a passion? I think the act of volunteer work is itself a mostly selfless endeavor, but within the context of a family relationship and isn't quite so straightforward.

Icarus Wings

Hey dermatov! I have to commend you for your previous volunteer work and for considering returning to it. I'm sure you are fully aware of this but so many areas of the world and elements of society need volunteers such as yourself in order to survive and develop. I often think that the world would be a far sadder place without the selfless contribution of volunteers...

Personally, I don't believe you are being selfish but whenever I do volunteer with an organisation, I am nearly always told to consider what effects the work will have on other aspects of my life (such as relationships with family and friends). However, commitments to others does not mean that volunteerism is competely out of the question.

Judging from your posts on this thread, I can tell that you know your skills are vital in improving lives in Haiti and that you are making a differance. The best thing you can do is sit down with your partner and explain your reasons for going back. Ensure that you listen to her concerns as well and ask if there is anything you can do to reduce these worries without you having to sacrifice your volunteer work. Carefully consider the points of both sides and a compromise may be reached...Best of luck! You will make the right decision for you and your family in the end!

sheesh

dermatrov wrote: »

I agree it is complex, hence my post.

Does that mean people in a family space shoulnt do it?

When I was away, she too was away on holiday. That was her wish. She was resting, I was not. I could have gone on that too, but chose to help out very poor people instead. That was my wish.

The children were with her though, weren't they? You were off doing something without the children. I know the work in haiti is very important but so is your family and clearly there is an issue here as your other half has said something.

I do not think you should go the second year in a row I think you will have to negotiate with your partner for a second trip

dory

You came here asking a question and have no interest in hearing our opinions....right so, enjoy Haiti! You're a champ! :rolleyes:

mooliki

dermatrov wrote: »

I agree it is complex, hence my post.

Does that mean people in a family space shoulnt do it?

When I was away, she too was away on holiday. That was her wish. She was resting, I was not. I could have gone on that too, but chose to help out very poor people instead. That was my wish.

I didn't mean to be accusatory, my apologies if it came across as such. I certainly don't believe it's an activity for those solely without a family.

To be honest, I think this is an issue only you and your partner can truly answer. With deep talks and compassionate thinking on both sides. I don't think anyone can say "if" your being selfish until it's clear "why" you're being selfish. If her attitude towards your volunteerism has changed, then it's possible there's more to the issue than it seems. Sorry I don't have a better reply. Good luck in any case, I hope it's resolved to everyone benefit.

Jellybaby1

I have never done anything like the work you have done in Haiti and I have great admiration for people just like you. I have no personal experience of my own but I feel I should share with you the following for what its worth.

I knew a couple of guys who volunteered for various charitable work. The first, a young single man, travelled to the other side of the world, two years running. The third year he was turned down by the charity. He was quite shocked as he felt he had a lot to offer. Their reason, they thought he should stay at home and find a future for himself, a career, a family etc. When he finds that, then he could re-apply. We got the impression that the charity felt he was getting too much of a buzz and they wanted him to mature. He never re-applied after marriage and a houseful of kids.

The second was an older family man who gave all his talents and time to his chosen charities, and there were many. He gave and gave and gave as he thought, with the support of his wife, until he discovered to his surprise that his marriage was in ruins and his wife was on the verge of separating from him and gave him an ultimatum, "save us, or save the rest of the world, you can't do both". It stopped him in his tracks and although he didn't stop all his work, he did cut back a lot.

When I read your OP you reminded me of these two men. Do you see yourself in either case?

The third thing I should say to you is that there is a clue in your original post. You 'made an assumption that it would be ok'. Maybe that is the crux of the thing. Maybe you should have discussed it first.

marymcm

I wonder if it is not as simple as you think. You say you found the experience mentally and physically tough, maybe it changed you in more ways than you realized. For your wife and children, maybe it wasn't a case of just missing you for a week. Is it possible that you returned a very different person from the experience? I would imagine that it would change you in a very profound way.

pwurple

Home with the kids? - again, wrong. She was on holidays.

You have taken her for granted here. That's the problem. No one likes the assumption that they will just pick up any slack you have left off, while you do whatever you want at their expense.

I'd skip it this year, maybe compromise on the following year instead.

rustopher

its like that movie isnt it...machine gun preacher, once you tasted it and become aware first hand the help needed, u want to go back and do it again. Its great for them and you can feel good about helping as well.

I dont know why but i can see your partners side of it too!!!! its something ye dont share together!!!!

childsplay

I might be able to offer you an insight. My other half is a very active cyclist and is now on about doing triathalons. While I know this is a good thing and a harmless thing, I have really resented it at times. He talks about it alot and is away a lot of the time training. He is not working at the minute and I am earning very little. Really not enough to keep things ticking over. He still buys all his sports gear, goes to runs and events. This annoys me as we have no money but he spends a lot on this stuff. Plus, he sometimes doesn't pull his weight at home as he's tired from training. I get pissed off and angry. Of course I do. I feel like I am second fiddle to his other love.

Now, I know this is a slightly different story to yours, but I think it might apply in your case too. I am sure your wife is so proud of you for doing this but she might also be struggling with resenting it too. She probably has a list of stuff that she see's as problems and just can't quite balance them off against her love and pride in you.

Jellybaby1

childsplay wrote: »

I might be able to offer you an insight. My other half is a very active cyclist and is now on about doing triathalons. While I know this is a good thing and a harmless thing, I have really resented it at times. He talks about it alot and is away a lot of the time training. He is not working at the minute and I am earning very little. Really not enough to keep things ticking over. He still buys all his sports gear, goes to runs and events. This annoys me as we have no money but he spends a lot on this stuff. Plus, he sometimes doesn't pull his weight at home as he's tired from training. I get pissed off and angry. Of course I do. I feel like I am second fiddle to his other love.

Now, I know this is a slightly different story to yours, but I think it might apply in your case too. I am sure your wife is so proud of you for doing this but she might also be struggling with resenting it too. She probably has a list of stuff that she see's as problems and just can't quite balance them off against her love and pride in you.

Beautifully put!

the_syco

dermatrov wrote: »

Feel great? I needed councilling, as some of what I seen I couldnt type

Maybe your wife is trying to save you from yourself? She has probably seen a change in you, and this change may not be a good thing. If you don't think it has changed you, consider why you needed consoling.

You should also take what childsplay said into consideration.

oceanblue

It might be important to understand the reasons why your wife feels it seems selfish to her. I don't think it's a case of right or wrong(or that it's all black or white)....I got that impression from the question you asked "Am I being selfish giving up a week for strangers?"

It does sound like you are putting alot of energy into it(time and energy..plus emotionally?). Maybe more than you might think at first and for your wife..
It also sounds like you have really made a real difference using your skills to help others too.

walshb

dermatrov wrote: »

9 million very poor people in a devastated place the size of Munster, with the lowest capital worth in the entire world, with no hope, only that people will help them.
)

9 million people? No chance some of them would be capable of doing these jobs that you are doing? Bit of painting and decorating etc? Are those people really that backward?

Seems to me that they have more than enough people there. So, why are you adding to the problem?

dory

walshb wrote: »

9 million people? No chance some of them would be capable of doing these jobs that you are doing? Bit of painting and decorating etc? Are those people really that backward?

Seems to me that they have more than enough people there. So, why are you adding to the problem?

In his OP he made it seem like he wasn't doing general house building stuff like some of the week long trips do, but that he had a badly needed skill.

That said, I agree it is absolutely impossible there aren't locals who could do it. But the locals don't bring the fundraising with them.

Sakinah

dory wrote: »

Just to be devil advocate here: I see her point.

You do the fundraising, which probably takes up a lot of time and she might not like you asking friends and family for money.

Then you get to go over to Haiti in a week, unless you're highly skilled in some trade you're most likely taking a job from an unskilled local. Then you get to do your bit of work and get to feel great about it when you see the reaction of the very grateful locals.

They way she sees it you're flying off to a far away land to get an ego boost when people tell you you've changed their lives (when really they could have done the work themselves if the money was there) and all the while she's at home alone with the kids.

The way you describe it, no one should go volunteer to do anything. Which is ridiculous.

A person's intention in their heart is what matters - they can be in it for the ego trip, or because they want to make a difference and help someone.

In my opinion, only people who are too miserly to help anyone themselves would come out with the attitude that it is LESS selfish to sit at home sitting on your hands than making a huge effort to raise money for a charity, tough it out in a ravaged land and do something nice for humankind for nothing other than a smile.

OP - you are not being selfish wanting to go to Haiti, but you would be selfish if you ignored your wife's wishes altogether. Talk it out with her. I've been thinking about volunteering for something and having discussed it, we agreed that he could in turn go somewhere alone for a week that he wants to go. Marriage is about give and take. The real question is not are you selfish, it is can you sacrifice your wishes for your wife's if it goes that far? Because it is time away from family and can take over your life a bit, I think you should only do it if you have her full support.

shinny

At the end of the day it's really irrelevant what we all think. Rightly or wrongly, this is how your partner feels. I think you need to understand what's driving that. We'd only be guessing as we don't know you or your partner.

I think you need to have a candid conversation.

dory

Sakinah wrote: »

The way you describe it, no one should go volunteer to do anything. Which is ridiculous.

A person's intention in their heart is what matters - they can be in it for the ego trip, or because they want to make a difference and help someone.

In my opinion, only people who are too miserly to help anyone themselves would come out with the attitude that it is LESS selfish to sit at home sitting on your hands than making a huge effort to raise money for a charity, tough it out in a ravaged land and do something nice for humankind for nothing other than a smile.

I'm not saying no one should volunteer ever. I'm saying it's ridiculous to think you going to a country will make a significant difference.

There are books written about this topic, all generally agree that Western do-gooders do not make a real difference. Disagree all you like, I do this for a living and that is what the facts point to. If you want to go and explore a new culture and try a kind of work that you will enjoy then absolutely go for it. But do a Comlamh or Suas course first mybe.

edanto

dory wrote: »

There are books written about this topic, all generally agree that Western do-gooders do not make a real difference. Disagree all you like, I do this for a living and that is what the facts point to.

OT - but I would suggest that the small number of do-gooders that travel to do good have a much more positive influence than the large numbers that stay here and perpetuate a consumerist lifestyle and implicitly support our economic and political structures that are part of the reason that basket cases like Haiti exist.

Local and global crime and corruption are also a huge cause, but it's unlikely to be solved by people not doing anything.

On topic - it sounds like the OP needs to talk, and listen to, his partner. She probably understands your reasons for wanting to go, but you need to understand her reasons too.

Tim Robbins

I suggest you both read 'The life you can save' by Peter Singer.

Are you going to Haiti to see the smiles at the end of the work or to actually help them? With respect, if what motivates you is their smiles than it is selfish.

This is like those people who fly to South Africa to build houses in the townships.
They feel great helping but they are helping in a very cost ineffective way. It would be cheaper to employ local labour than fly Irish people a few thousand miles.

If you ask me you are both being a little bit selfish.

I suggest you do some charity work with your family and donate money to a cost effective charity. I might sound like I am on my high horse here but you do ask for opinions.

da_shivsta

I agree with dory's first post.
A much more sustainable and helpful thing for us to do is enable the Haitian people to help themselves. Teach them your skill, instead of just building the house. How can it be cheaper to fly somebody in to do the job?
You may believe you are doing good, but volunteer tourism - it's just another way for the great white man to keep the others down. A vicious circle.
You may not be 'enjoying' yourself, but I can agree with your partner; seeing things from both perspectives maybe you should volunteer at home, or include your wife more somehow.... so it is something for both of you away from the kids, work etc.

Nabber

da_shivsta wrote: »

I agree with dory's first post.
A much more sustainable and helpful thing for us to do is enable the Haitian people to help themselves. Teach them your skill, instead of just building the house. How can it be cheaper to fly somebody in to do the job?
You may believe you are doing good, but volunteer tourism - it's just another way for the great white man to keep the others down. A vicious circle.
You may not be 'enjoying' yourself, but I can agree with your partner; seeing things from both perspectives maybe you should volunteer at home, or include your wife more somehow.... so it is something for both of you away from the kids, work etc.

Perhaps the OP was in to train the locals?? Knowledge has to come from some where.

I don't agree with the OP going when he has kids. His commitment is at home. The work he is doing is great and all that. But would he be willing to do all that fundraising and allow someone of equal skill to go in his place with the finances he raised??

I don't do much work for foreign aid, when I say much, what I mean is, I do none. I think the idea of traveling to an new place appeals more to people than the reason you are traveling there.

Plus George Hook was there.

I have unemployed, unskilled & lazy friends who announce they are going to volunteer in India, Sri Lanka ect.. It annoys the shít out of me. They care not for the plight of the people they reckon they will save.
These countries are not screaming out for Western do-gooders to visit, self sufficiency is what they need.

I'll end my rant there. Didn't mean to go off like that

abceire

I think you are looking for a black and white answer, and you want the answer to be no you are great for going.
Did you chat about going again, with your partner way in advance of signing up again?
How many kids have you? How old are they?
That sounds like a nice offer someone suggested, were your partner can do something for a week minus kids etc, while you mind them, be that at home you mind them or on holiday.
Alos great work your doing, but a poster had some valid points maybe, some volunteers go to mind kids, they get attached for a week and leave, that isn't great for the baby they spend a week playing with.
Volunteering doesn't automatically mean your helping. I'm sure you are though.
Maybe your partner is annoyed simply because they are afraid for you.

abceire

How much time will you need to get ready for the trip, fund raising etc, and how much time to get over the trip when you get back, resting, counselling etc?

syklops

Home with the kids? - again, wrong. She was on holidays when I was away working in 44 degree heat, 80% humidity for 14 hours a day.

Yeah but she was on holidays alone with the kids. Which meant she was watching around her all the time, had to be careful with how much she could drink because she is the only responsible adult, no grown up conversation, and no fun times in the bedroom. Doesn't sound like much of a holiday to me.

I commend you for volunteering, but why not try something closer to home and with your partner? I bet the local scout troop are looking for leaders. Then you could do something with your family, and with your partner, and still make a difference.

abceire

Scout troop, nice!