Owning A Passport Of A Country You've Never Been In

SharpshooterTom

Does it sound strange?

I'm eligible for a Canadian passport, my father was born there in 58', moved back to Ireland in 1960, has only been on a two week holiday in 1978 as a student since.

I'm thinking about applying for one, but I'm bit self concious by the fact I've never set foot in the country though however.

"Oh cool a Canadian passport!"
"Yeah!"
"Cool so you're Canadian, wow whats Canada like?!"
"Dunno never been"

I'd be embarresed if this conversation ever took place heh. :pac:

Does anyone by chance own a passport to a country they've never set foot in ever? Just wondering.

My name is URL

Seems a bit pointless to me, unless you plan on actually going/moving there at some stage.

Pushtrak

Are you planning on going there at any point? If so, get one, just don't carry it around places. Unless you don't have an Irish passport, in which case get on that.

kowloon

I believe Mossad get Irish passports in bulk.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Everyone is eligible for a Sealandic Passport. They're quite expensive though and not recognised by any sovereign state. :pac:

El Guapo!

No point getting one just for the sake of it. That'll just be a waste of time and money.
If you're planning on going there then get one.

Pushtrak

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Everyone is eligible for a Sealandic Passport. They're quite expensive though and not recognised by any sovereign state. :pac:

Am I right in thinking you can get a fancy title too?

Edit: Yep, Lord, Lady, Baron or Baroness...

http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/lordladybaronbaroness

Helix

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Does it sound strange?

I'm eligible for a Canadian passport, my father was born there in 58', moved back to Ireland in 1960, has only been on a two week holiday in 1978 as a student since.

I'm thinking about applying for one, but I'm bit self concious by the fact I've never set foot in the country though however.

"Oh cool a Canadian passport!"
"Yeah!"
"Cool so you're Canadian, wow whats Canada like?!"
"Dunno never been"

I'd be embarresed if this conversation ever took place heh. :pac:

Does anyone by chance own a passport to a country they've never set foot in ever? Just wondering.

get it! there are thousands of people in ireland who'd kill to be able to just move to canada whenever they wanted without having to go through the long immigration process

if nothing else it leaves your options open

DEFTLEFTHAND

Pushtrak wrote: »

Am I right in thinking you can get a fancy title too?

Edit: Yep, Lord, Lady, Baron or Baroness...

http://www.sealandgov.org/title-pack/lordladybaronbaroness

That's right, all for a hefty fee though.

EDIT: scratch that, 29.99 doesn't sound to bad, I might get one.

JohnMearsheimer

No harm in getting one, it gives you more options. Ireland and Canada allow for dual citizenship. Wouldn't mind having that myself.

kneemos

I have a plan, get one and then don't tell anyone.Sneaky eh.

SharpshooterTom

Yes I am btw planning to visit Canada at some point within the next 5 years maybe even go there regularly. Emigrate? Who knows!

Does anyone know anything about the process, I'm told it takes around 18 months? I have to apply for citizenship first and then apply for a passport apparantly. Anyone know anything?

wexie

Helix wrote: »

get it! there are thousands of people in ireland who'd kill to be able to just move to canada whenever they wanted without having to go through the long immigration process

if nothing else it leaves your options open

What Helix said

Both my kids had passports of a country they'd never been to (since rectified) although that was simply cause it was easier to get then an Irish passport (bizarre but more an indication of the screwed up processes here rather than anything else).

Pushtrak

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yes I am btw planning to visit Canada at some point within the next 5 years maybe even go there regularly. Emigrate? Who knows!

Does anyone know anything about the process, I'm told it takes around 18 months? I have to apply for citizenship first and then apply for a passport apparantly. Anyone know anything?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1183#

Helix

my wife is canadian and ive been living over here since 2009, and as soon as im able to get a canadian passport ill definitely be getting one. i know that's not the same as the OPs query, but i see absolutely no reason not to get one. my kids will be entitled to an irish passport and they'll be getting it so that the whole of the EU as well as canada, and the states through the various schemes available to canadian citizens, will be open to them for their future. absolutely no point in limiting yourself when it comes to serious life opportunities

the fact that my kids will be able to grow up knowing that they can get into anywhere in the EU without jumping through hoops is a serious advantage for them

Isn't just about everyone here allowed a British passport?

Helix

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't just about everyone here allowed a British passport?

in the south? not unless they were born before the 1940s if i remember correctly. i looked into it a while back actually

Mint Sauce

Am sure there would be plenty of holders of a GB&NI passport (if you can count it as an example) who would have never been to all four countries of the UK. I only visited Scotland for the first time 5 or 6 years ago. Was never in it whilst I had my GB&NI passport.

Mint Sauce

Helix wrote: »

in the south? not unless they were born before the 1940s if i remember correctly. i looked into it a while back actually

Would they be allowed one if their parents were born in the south before the 1940s?

irish-stew

irish-stew wrote: »

Would they be allowed one if their parents were born in the south before the 1940s?

That's what I was thinking. Also for football even a Grandparent would be enough :P

Helix

irish-stew wrote: »

Would they be allowed one if their parents were born in the south before the 1940s?

no

Mint Sauce

Deleted User wrote: »

That's what I was thinking. Also for football even a Grandparent would be enough :P

I know thats a certainty for applying for an Irish Passport, and possibly for a GB&NI passport if the grandparents were born there, not sure though for a grandparent born on the Island of Ireland after or before a certain year.

pseudofax

Helix wrote: »

the fact that my kids will be able to grow up knowing that they can get into anywhere in the EU without jumping through hoops is a serious advantage for them

Who says the current legislation will remain so by the time they grow up? Sorry for being pedantic, but the EU could collapse at any moment, and even if it does not, there is nothing stopping a few members of parliament from revoking the freedom of movement within the EU back to before these measures were applied.

Even barring these two, the right of free movement in the EU is not absolute, and a country could in theory introduce more stringent controls, ie barring foreigners outside the EU, say Canadians.

Killer Wench

Are you liable for any taxes once you claim that citizenship?

pseudofax

irish-stew wrote: »

I know thats a certainty for applying for an Irish Passport, and possibly for a GB&NI passport if the grandparents were born there, not sure though for a grandparent born on the Island of Ireland after or before a certain year.

GB&NI passports by descent to not transmit to grandchildren, only to the parent(s), therefore, it is currently impossible for a grandchild to claim citizenship through their grandparent. Ireland on the other hand allows it, the UK does not.

Helix

pseudofax wrote: »

Who says the current legislation will remain so by the time they grow up? Sorry for being pedantic, but the EU could collapse at any moment, and even if it does not, there is nothing stopping a few members of parliament from revoking the freedom of movement within the EU back to before these measures were applied.

Even barring these two, the right of free movement in the EU is not absolute, and a country could in theory introduce more stringent controls, ie barring foreigners outside the EU, say Canadians.

of course that's always a risk, but are you suggesting i should just not bother getting my kids irish passports just on the off chance that the EU changes structure? by having an irish passport, they're not foreigners (say, canadians), they're irish citizens

Mint Sauce

pseudofax wrote: »

Who says the current legislation will remain so by the time they grow up? Sorry for being pedantic, but the EU could collapse at any moment, and even if it does not, there is nothing stopping a few members of parliament from revoking the freedom of movement within the EU back to before these measures were applied.

Even barring these two, the right of free movement in the EU is not absolute, and a country could in theory introduce more stringent controls, ie barring foreigners outside the EU, say Canadians.

Was there not already discussions for this between Irish and GB air and seaports?

pseudofax

Killer Wench wrote: »

Are you liable for any taxes once you claim that citizenship?

No, America appears to be the only country in the world that believes a non resident US citizen must file USA tax forms. Absolutely bizzare country for legislating this. Not to mention the fact US citizens can have their passports revoked for failing to honour IRS tax claims above or equal to $50,000.

That is bordering on Soviet Russia style travel restrictions. I would not touch an American passport with a bargepole. Infact, offshore financial institutions will generally refuse American Citizens for these reasons.

Helix

Killer Wench wrote: »

Are you liable for any taxes once you claim that citizenship?

the states is the only country ive heard of that uses that completely ridiculous approach

Killer Wench

pseudofax wrote: »

No, America appears to be the only country in the world that believes a non resident US citizen must file USA tax forms. Absolutely bizzare country for legislating this. Not to mention the fact US citizens can have their passports revoked for failing to honour IRS tax claims above or equal to $50,000. That is bordering on Soviet Russia style travel restrictions. I would not touch an American passport with a bargepole. Infact, offshore financial institutions will generally refuse American Citizens for these reasons.

Eh. Personally, I think if you are gonna claim citizenship for your benefit, then you should be liable for supporting the government like any other citizen. It should not be a one way street.

Helix

Killer Wench wrote: »

Eh. Personally, I think if you are gonna claim citizenship for your benefit, then you should be liable for supporting the government like any other citizen. It should not be a one way street.

you should only need to pay taxes in the country you live in, anything else is absolute nonsense

pseudofax

irish-stew wrote: »

Was there not already discussions for this between Irish and GB air and seaports?

Correct. The Common Travel Area between the Republic and the UK is not absolute, because it is not provided for officially in legislation. It could be removed with the stroke of a pen. The only thing they can't take away too easy is an Irish persons right to live and work permanently in the UK. There would have to be a retroactive law to allow this, which aren't very popular with the ECHR, or members of Parliament in the UK.

pseudofax

Killer Wench wrote: »

Eh. Personally, I think if you are gonna claim citizenship for your benefit, then you should be liable for supporting the government like any other citizen. It should not be a one way street.

The American Government wants you to believe this without questioning. Europeans aren't as naive in this regard. It's uncommon everywhere else BUT America to file tax forms of your native country as a non resident. This law implies you are the property of the American Government. A commodity to be bought and sold. I am not a commodity.

Mint Sauce

pseudofax wrote: »

Correct. The Common Travel Area between the Republic and the UK is not absolute, because it is not provided for officially in legislation. It could be removed with the stroke of a pen. The only thing they can't take away too easy is an Irish persons right to live and work permanently in the UK. There would have to be a retroactive law to allow this, which aren't very popular with the ECHR, or members of Parliament in the UK.

Did they not also say it would be very hard to restrict due to the common land mass between the Republic and NI, say for example someone traveling over the boarder to belfast and simply sailing or flying to Britan from there. The same way a none EU national can fly into belfast for a Holiday in NI and stray over the boarder by accident without the correct visa.

Killer Wench

pseudofax wrote: »

The American Government wants you to believe this without questioning. Europeans aren't as naive in this regard. It's uncommon everywhere else BUT America to file tax forms of your native country as a non resident. This law implies you are the property of the American Government. A commodity to be bought and sold. I am not a commodity.

No, I believe this because I am also a member of a tribal community where there are plenty of people claiming heritage, but have done nothing to support the continuance of the community. It is all about their needs and what they can get from their citizenship and not about how they are obligated to do their part to keep the community going.

If you want a passport, do your part to support the nation that you are claiming.

Helix

Killer Wench wrote: »

No, I believe this because I am also a member of a tribal community where there are plenty of people claiming heritage, but have done nothing to support the continuance of the community. It is all about their needs and what they can get from their citizenship and not about how they are obligated to do their part to keep the community going.

If you want a passport, do your part to support the nation that you are claiming.

taxes pay for the upkeep of the country. if you're not in the country using those facilities, then being expected to pay tax on your earnings from another country, where you're also paying tax, is completely unreasonable and absolutely reeks of extreme communism

an american passport, in the sense we're discussing here, is of no use to anyone irish unless they're living in america, and if they're living in america then they're going to be paying taxes anyway

Killer Wench

Helix wrote: »

taxes pay for the upkeep of the country. if you're not in the country using those facilities, then being expected to pay tax on your earnings from another country, where you're also paying tax, is completely unreasonable and absolutely reeks of extreme communism

an american passport, in the sense we're discussing here, is of no use to anyone irish unless they're living in america, and if they're living in america then they're going to be paying taxes anyway

But, once you decide to use that passport and come back to the state that you claim, you are also expecting to have reasonable access to all of the rights and services reserved for citizens. Those services have to be maintained regardless of whether you are living there or not. If you have no intention of returning - and thus no intention of ever using those services - renounce your claim and support the nation that you are paying to maintain.

Helix

Killer Wench wrote: »

But, once you decide to use that passport and come back to the state that you claim, you are also expecting to have reasonable access to all of the rights and services reserved for citizens. Those services have to be maintained regardless of whether you are living there or not. If you have no intention of returning - and thus no intention of ever using those services - renounce your claim and support the nation that you are paying to maintain.

but as soon as you return there you're paying taxes, that's the whole point of taxes. you pay them to support the upkeep of the country you're living in

do you pay regular retainers to your favourite restaurants, even though you don't go, to help with their upkeep? of course you dont, however when you're there to use their services you pay your dues

there's a reason america is the only major country to utilise this system you know - because the "god bless america" mentality is drilled in from birth, and you're told that patriotism is the most important virtue, and to question anything that the big ol' god fearing government says about patriotism is to act against your wonderful country

nowhere else would stand for it, and for good reason

pseudofax

irish-stew wrote: »

Did they not also say it would be very hard to restrict due to the common land mass between the Republic and NI, say for example someone traveling over the boarder to belfast and simply sailing or flying to Britan from there. The same way a none EU national can fly into belfast for a Holiday in NI and stray over the boarder by accident without the correct visa.

I flew over to Birmingham a while back and they didn't check my passport on the way out, but I would imagine it could be done, it's just a waste of UK Government funds to police such a large area border as Northern Ireland and Great Britain. It could be done, but why unless there is a war on or something? It would cost far too much with too little to gain.

Irish CItizens can only be deported from the UK for extremely serious offences, Terrorism, Genocide, Murder etc, amounting to 5 years or more. EU citizens can be deported for serious 2 year prison sentances. Also, In addition to this, non Irish or UK citizens can be removed for other non criminal reasons, and do not have a right to public funds like welfare. Non EU nationals can be deported for very mundane reasons.

Azures

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Yes I am btw planning to visit Canada at some point within the next 5 years maybe even go there regularly. Emigrate? Who knows!

Does anyone know anything about the process, I'm told it takes around 18 months? I have to apply for citizenship first and then apply for a passport apparantly. Anyone know anything?

Easiest way is to get a company to offer you a skilled job. There is a top ten list of jobs where they are short of Canadians to fill. Then you need points to qualify, there is a good govt website. My brother was over there within 6 months of a job offer.

Killer Wench

Helix wrote: »

but as soon as you return there you're paying taxes, that's the whole point of taxes. you pay them to support the upkeep of the country you're living in

do you pay regular retainers to your favourite restaurants, even though you don't go, to help with their upkeep? of course you dont, however when you're there to use their services you pay your dues

there's a reason america is the only major country to utilise this system you know - because the "god bless america" mentality is drilled in from birth, and you're told that patriotism is the most important virtue, and to question anything that the big ol' god fearing government says about patriotism is to act against your wonderful country

nowhere else would stand for it, and for good reason

No, you are paying taxes to the state that you are claiming to be a citizen of. And, I pay taxes for services that I do not use on a regular basis. An example, many residents pay for a 911 (emergency number) tax; do I use that bad boy every night? No. But one day I might, and because of that tax, it will be there when I need it.

If you think people are told not to question our government, then you know absolutely nothing about our political structure, and our electoral process. If we do not like the direction of our government, we can vote them out in the next election. A recent example, my country is divided by the recent Supreme Court decision finding that the Health Care law to be constitutional under tax provisions; those who oppose the nature of this law will be able to vote for a candidate who will repeal this Act.

It is amusing to me to see so much conjecture about a nation of 300+ million people as if all of those millions of people share one monolithic train of thought, religion, political identity, and history.

Helix

Azures wrote: »

Easiest way is to get a company to offer you a skilled job. There is a top ten list of jobs where they are short of Canadians to fill. Then you need points to qualify, there is a good govt website. My brother was over there within 6 months of a job offer.

He's entitled to a Canadian passport... He doesn't need to do any of that

Helix

Killer Wench wrote: »

No, you are paying taxes to the state that you are claiming to be a citizen of. And, I pay taxes for services that I do not use on a regular basis. An example, many residents pay for a 911 (emergency number) tax; do I use that bad boy every night? No. But one day I might, and because of that tax, it will be there when I need it.

If you think people are told not to question our government, then you know absolutely nothing about our political structure, and our electoral process. If we do not like the direction of our government, we can vote them out in the next election. A recent example, my country is divided by the recent Supreme Court decision finding that the Health Care law to be constitutional under tax provisions; those who oppose the nature of this law will be able to vote for a candidate who will repeal this Act.

It is amusing to me to see so much conjecture about a nation of 300+ million people as if all of those millions of people share one monolithic train of thought, religion, political identity, and history.

Brain washing in action folks!

pseudofax

Helix wrote: »

Brain washing in action folks!

"God Bless United States of America", a state not even as old as the stone wall outside my house:D

Azures

If he has to apply for citizenship then he might be quicker getting a job first and getting citizenship In Canada, s'all I'm saying. At the Citizenship ceremony you have to make an oath of loyalty to the Queen!

fullstop

I know a South African with an Irish passport who has never been here, seems a bit pointless to me.

Killer Wench

pseudofax wrote: »

"God Bless United States of America", a state not even as old as the stone wall outside my house:D

And when did Ireland get its independence again?

Helix

Azures wrote: »

If he has to apply for citizenship then he might be quicker getting a job first and getting citizenship In Canada, s'all I'm saying. At the Citizenship ceremony you have to make an oath of loyalty to the Queen!

swear an oath? id let her drop the hand tbh

Helix

fullstop wrote: »

I know a South African with an Irish passport who has never been here, seems a bit pointless to me.

why? as things stand he's got free movement within the eu - hardly all that pointless

Azures

Buttonftw wrote: »

irish-stew wrote: »

Would they be allowed one if their parents were born in the south before the 1940s?

That's what I was thinking. Also for football even a Grandparent would be enough :P

Around 1990 they made a law where if you were entitled to a British citizenship, by being born before the Republic you had to sign a document to claim it - or let it go forever. It was very threatening for the Irish community in Britain at the time, given the politics. Now if you have Irish grandparents in Britain, you have to register the birth at the Irish embassy, to qualify for citizenship. If you are registered your children can also claim- but only up to Great grandparents. After that you are British!

pseudofax

Killer Wench wrote: »

And when did Ireland get its independence again?

Free State Dominion Status in 1922, officially a full republic in 1949:)