Ridiculous arguments for believing

Chief_Jack

I doubt I am the only one who has had a fundamentalist or met a preacher on the street who has tried to 'help' me by convincing me that I am wrong and there is a God.

The most ridiculous of these I have encountered was when a preacher guy said to me "Seeing as you don't believe in a God and believe there is no Hell for you to pay for your sins in this world what stops you from going on a huge killing spree seeing as you won't get punished in the next life for it?". My reply which crippled him, "You call me immoral for not having faith, yet the first thing you think of is if there's no God to punish you then you would go on a killing spree. I think that says a lot more about you than it does me".

That ended the conversation pretty abruptly I can tell you that!

frozenfrozen

Same as your story almost exactly, except I didn't say it in such a badass tone. I basically just said that I don't need a god to treat people properly. This man later went on to tell me that he tried to kill a police officer in england by stabbing him several times.

It's always the mad ones!

Chief_Jack

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Same as your story almost exactly, except I didn't say it in such a badass tone. I basically just said that I don't need a god to treat people properly. This man later went on to tell me that he tried to kill a police officer in england by stabbing him several times.

It's always the mad ones!

Hahaha my story may have been phrased more bad-ass as you say sir but yours is far more bizarre and funny.

Indeed, Religion often is littered with people who are unstable and need it as a crutch to keep them on a moral path. I just think its unfair for those same people to chastise the non-believers who follow their own moral code without the need for the crutch.

To clarify, I don't think all Religious people are like this but there is a fair share of them.

Pushtrak

Seeing as the moral argument has already been pointed out, I guess I'll go with the "Life has no meaning if you don't believe in a imaginary sky father figure with a plan that you will act out while having free will but the plan but the free will but..." and that "life as a non believer is empty" when really, I'd say emptiness, or at least lacking is a reasonable analysis at looking at the critical faculties of the believer.

MagicMarker

All arguments for believing are ridiculous.

Chief_Jack

MagicMarker wrote: »

All arguments for believing are ridiculous.

How about someone who was brainwashed from a young age to believe and is so warped from the experience that they find it impossible to let go of the belief. That's hardly ridiculous now is it, its ridiculous that it was allowed to happen but now that it has I wouldn't describe that persons reason for believing as 'ridiculous'.

Sarky

The recently posited "oh but god designed empirical evidence, so that means any old bullsh*t reason to believe is equally valid" argument is the daftest one I've heard since, well, ever.

MagicMarker

Chief_Jack wrote: »

How about someone who was brainwashed from a young age to believe and is so warped from the experience that they find it impossible to let go of the belief. That's hardly ridiculous now is it, its ridiculous that it was allowed to happen but now that it has I wouldn't describe that persons reason for believing as 'ridiculous'.

Your thread is entitled "Ridiculous arguments for believing", I've never heard a theist use an argument that wasn't ridiculous, how they've come to that conclusion is irrelevant when it comes to this thread.

The person you refer to in your OP, who had his own ridiculous argument, did you double check with him to make he wasn't "brainwashed from a young age" before starting this thread? Of course not, his argument is ridiculous regardless.

Pushtrak

MagicMarker wrote: »

Your thread is entitled "Ridiculous arguments for believing", I've never heard a theist use an argument that wasn't ridiculous, how they've come to that conclusion is irrelevant when it comes to this thread.

The person you refer to in your OP, who had his own ridiculous argument, did you double check with him to make he wasn't "brainwashed from a young age" before starting this thread? Of course not, his argument is ridiculous regardless.

That is true, and it reminds me of one I can now bring up as an example. Presuppositional apologetics. "When you presuppose god exists, then you believe god exists".

Edit: If you want to see the daftness of it, and don't mind giving something stupid a click, check this out.

robindch

My fundamentalist relative once explained her extreme religious belief thusly:

"I believe, because."

It takes a bit of practice to hear the italics.

SpaceRocket

Chief_Jack wrote: »

How about someone who was brainwashed from a young age to believe and is so warped from the experience that they find it impossible to let go of the belief. That's hardly ridiculous now is it, its ridiculous that it was allowed to happen but now that it has I wouldn't describe that persons reason for believing as 'ridiculous'.

I think you may have been referring to my comments here? In that case...

My reasons for believing I don't feel were necessarily ridiculous...
I was after all a toddler, a child, and a pre teen when I was a religious zealout.

What I lacked was responsible, rational thinking adults. My reasons for believing were because I had no other option, no other way of thinking was ever offered me during that period of my young life.

I was born into ignorance, and that is what is ridiculous. On top of all the tripe I was led to believe in.

Chief_Jack

Hmmmm, yeah I see what you mean. Fair point

krudler

"everything had to come from somewhere"

so, a wizard did it basically.

Pushtrak

krudler wrote: »

"everything had to come from somewhere"

so, a wizard did it basically.

Everything had to come from somewhere... Except the wizard.

joseph brand

Pushtrak wrote: »

Everything had to come from somewhere... Except the wizard.

'He' has always existed. /half smile and blank stare.

In response to the OP:

"I want to go to heaven, therefore God!".
I have some sympathy for people who think like this. Poor craters.

oshead

I know I've heard lots and lots of arguments, but can't remember most of it because it's such insane waffle.... Most, if not all of the ridiculous arguments for believing in a deity can be found at this link.... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=333

But the real problem with this waffle is the way it permeates and dominates general society.

Galvasean

"You HAVE TO believe in SOMETHING" - usually with such an emphasis.

The ontological argument or 'Perfect Being' argument is also the biggest pile of nonsense I've ever heard, but is one people (usually philosophy students to be fair) frequently bring up.

RHarrow

I find a lot of theists fall back on Pascal's Wager fairly rapidly.

"What if you're wrong and face a God you didn't believe in?" is the usual. When countered with "What if YOU'RE wrong and face a God YOU didn't believe in, but instead mindlessly devoted your life to worshipping something that was not that God?" followed by "My God is the one true God etc etc".

As one poster said, there literally are no good arguments for believing and all fall at their knees when you point out the fact that their religious beliefs (theists) are generally down to the geographical location they were brought up in and what religion their parents were.

Daftendirekt

I think one of the worst is what I'm going to call the Matrix Fallacy. It amounts to this:

You can't say for sure that we aren't in a Matrix-type simulation/hallucination. Because we can't be sure that the world as we experience it exists objectively, any statement of fact is as valid as any other. Therefore, God exists.

I've never seen it put in so many words - it's generally dressed up with a lot of waffle about the nature of knowledge and talk about how we know what we think we know. But to quote the Internet:

what is this i don't even

Sarky

Oh, that one gives me rage.

Daftendirekt

Sarky wrote: »

The recently posited "oh but god designed empirical evidence, so that means any old bullsh*t reason to believe is equally valid" argument is the daftest one I've heard since, well, ever.

Heh, I'm reading that thread as we speak.

Galvasean

'Gaps in current scientific understanding... GAPS!!!!'

bnt

The ones that most annoy me are the "expediency" arguments. The ones that state that the truth of religious claims is beside the point, but that religion should still set the social agenda because "it's good for people and society".

Even if that were true, which I seriously doubt, it would still be highly patronising and insulting to the average person. It's saying that people are sheep - Psalm 23 notwithstanding - who need to be herded by clergy who "know what's good for them". It's saying that it's acceptable to lie to people to get them to "behave" - that "the end justifies the means" and "you can't handle the truth". :cool:

It's not just Christianity, either. Islam has all those inconsistently-applied tribal strictures, such as Burkas (because men are slaves to their hormones), and rituals to mark out the hours. Tibetan Buddhism is another: I wonder whether all those celebrities supporting the Dalai Lama fully understand what kind of elitist feudal theocratic state Tibet was under his predecessors?

Nervous Wreck

"I believe because I have faith."

GarIT

X, Y and Z prove that the bible is the true word of god. Where do you find evidence of X, Y and Z? God says it, in the bible.

That's the infinate circle, the bible proves god to be true and god proves the bible to be true.

pauldla

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

"I believe because I have faith."

And then they go on to say that you cannot challenge the 'mystery of faith'.

All together now, "OH YES I CAN"

fatmammycat

I dislike the dishonesty of some 'faithful'
Why do you believe what you do?
'I've seen things over the years that have proved to me the existence of my personal god.'
Such as?'
Either * crickets* or prefectly explainable not in the slighest bit supernatural event revealed.
Therefore god.

Ellis Dee

The "best" one I've heard (many times) is: "How can you say that? You were brought up right!":rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'd recommend something like this YouTube video to them, but they are far too thick for it to do them any good::D:D

krudler

RHarrow wrote: »

I find a lot of theists fall back on Pascal's Wager fairly rapidly.

"What if you're wrong and face a God you didn't believe in?" is the usual. When countered with "What if YOU'RE wrong and face a God YOU didn't believe in, but instead mindlessly devoted your life to worshipping something that was not that God?" followed by "My God is the one true God etc etc".

As one poster said, there literally are no good arguments for believing and all fall at their knees when you point out the fact that their religious beliefs (theists) are generally down to the geographical location they were brought up in and what religion their parents were.

in the words of Homer Simpson: "but Marge, what if we chose the wrong religion? every week we're just making god madder and madder!"

sbsquarepants

krudler wrote: »

"everything had to come from somewhere"

so, a wizard did it basically.

This is probably the one glaring piece of bolloxology which first prompted me down the road to atheism when i was 8 or 9.

Sister Anne: All this stuff can't just come from nowhere, someone or something had to make it. Didn't they?
(Sounds very believable to a young child - this was 5th or 6th class)
Me (very innocently mind!): I suppose so. Who made god then?
Sister Anne: Eh, he doesn't need to be made, he always existed.
Me: But how, doesn't everything have to be made?
Sister Anne: Everything except god, he does the making, he doesn't get made!
Me: I don't understand.
Sister Anne: You're not supposed too!

:mad:

coffee_cake

fatmammycat wrote: »

I dislike the dishonesty of some 'faithful'
Why do you believe what you do?
'I've seen things over the years that have proved to me the existence of my personal god.'
Such as?'
Either * crickets* or prefectly explainable not in the slighest bit supernatural event revealed.
Therefore god.

such as pretty flowers, that's what

"Look, pretty flowers! therefore god exists"