GFW 2012

Skilgannon79

Shall I introduce you to the concept of a joke Enduro?? I don't think anyone expects the course to be swept for us?? If I had asked for lollipops for everyone on top of Croagh Patrick would you have criticised that as well?

Enduro

Top tip for jokes (especially ironic or sarcastic jokes) on the internet... use smilies. Tone of voice does not come accross in typing.

And the reason you need to highlight irony is that the reality of the suggestions people have come up with, in all seriousness, is staggering. These include: that the course of a race needs to be changed because its rough and causes punctures, that loose rocks on a run need to be signposted because they are potentially dangerous, that the lack of mile markers was disgraceful cheapskateedness, and best of all that the GFW organisers should surely spend twenty grand or so to tarmac over the rough bits of the course (that really was a genuine suggestion from some bright spark). So in that sea of "just doesn't get it" your joke is easily lost.

woody1

a lot of people reading this arent as lucky to live as close to the course as i or some others here do, we have the opportunity to get on the course before the race and pass on our thoughts to others... and get feedback from the likes of you thats done it before and in that way inform people..
in fairness you were 4th or 5th if i remember rightly one year and you have some serious experience in terms of what you would call real adventure races so your opinions might differ slightly from the average poster here

i dont expect or particularly want anything to be done about the road, im just letting people know what i think its like.. no more than id expect the bog road to be re-surfaced in tarmac or the reek to have a handrail installed..

as for everything being cycleable.. i did say in my opinion... not all of us can be sh*t hot on their bike..and i have my doubts that much more than maybe a third of the field if even that will cycle over that bit..fair f*cks to those that do but id rather run 300 yards with the bike than chance it, im not going to win the lost few minutes wont worry me

the thought crossed my mind about the brake pads , but they look new enough, and in fact the back brakes were rubbing so definitely tight enough,i only have the bike about a month, second hand from a bike shop but the pads look new with little wear.. will probably talk to the guy in the shop.. a little bit more bite wouldnt go astray..

woody1

you jumped in in the middle there before i was finished typing.... ignore rant please...

Enduro

woody1 wrote: »

as for everything being cycleable.. i did say in my opinion... not all of us can be sh*t hot on their bike..and i have my doubts that much more than maybe a third of the field if even that will cycle over that bit..fair f*cks to those that do but id rather run 300 yards with the bike than chance it, im not going to win the lost few minutes wont worry me

You did indeed quote it as an opinion. It just doesn't fit with my experience. Essentially I'm just offering another opinion, but one backed up by having done it.

Saying that not everyone can be good bike riders strikes me as being an awfully defeatist attitude. It's probably not true either. If you (broad you, not you personally) want to then of course you can address any skills or fitness weaknesses. The easiest way to get faster in any multi-sport event is to address your weaknesses rather than re-enforcing your strenghts. Bike handling skills are just another attribute that, like running speed or cycling strenght, will cost you time if you don't train/practice enough. It's potentially lots of time too, as good bike handling reduces the chances of getting puctures or other mechanical issues.

I learnt my bike handling skills mountain biking (I'm by no means sh*t hot by mountain biking standards). Mountain biking, as well as teaching you handling skills, is in my experience the most fun sport in Ireland. It's also great fitness training because of the climbing that is generally required. It's win-win.

woody1 wrote: »

the thought crossed my mind about the brake pads , but they look new enough, and in fact the back brakes were rubbing so definitely tight enough,i only have the bike about a month, second hand from a bike shop but the pads look new with little wear.. will probably talk to the guy in the shop.. a little bit more bite wouldnt go astray..

Was it wet on the day? You can get different types and qualities of brake pads, some of which will be designed to work better in wet conditions. Expensive wheels with ceramic rims also need specific types of pads, but I doubt too many people bring those wheels to GFW. Make sure the rims aren't too worn down either, since it is second hand (they're probably fine on a road bike, unless its really old). Since the brakes are rubbing, it definitely needs a little servicing. It's easy to that yourself, but most bike shops will give any bikes they sell a free one month servicing, since cables etc loosen up with their initial usage.

woody1

in general terms i wouldnt be defeatist at all,
but improvement is going to come with practice and i aint gonna get enough practice between now and the race..but hopefully for other races...ive enjoyed the couple of times ive been on it so i wouldnt rule out doing it a bit more..although it would require buying a mountain bike..which is a sickener as i sold one not all that long ago..

yeah it was wet-ish..and i would be able to fix the rubbing brake issue myself anyway but i just couldnt get over how much the bike was still motoring even with the brakes jammed, just assumed it was normal given the steepness of the hill..and probably rain and sheep sh*t on the rims..
definitely not expensive rims..


yep shop owner said to bring it back in for that, after the rattling it took at the weekend it might be a good time..

Skilgannon79

Enduro wrote: »

Top tip for jokes (especially ironic or sarcastic jokes) on the internet... use smilies. Tone of voice does not come accross in typing.

And the reason you need to highlight irony is that the reality of the suggestions people have come up with, in all seriousness, is staggering. These include: that the course of a race needs to be changed because its rough and causes punctures, that loose rocks on a run need to be signposted because they are potentially dangerous, that the lack of mile markers was disgraceful cheapskateedness, and best of all that the GFW organisers should surely spend twenty grand or so to tarmac over the rough bits of the course (that really was a genuine suggestion from some bright spark). So in that sea of "just doesn't get it" your joke is easily lost.

Apologies, I had stuck in an exclamation mark thinking it would do the job, I'll upgrade to smilies in future

I can see your point alright Enduro, these courses are supposed to be tackled in whatever form nature throws them at you. I think you do have to make some allowances for the average Joe as well though. The level that you compete at is beyond comprehension for most people and a lot of people on here are relatively new to adventure and multisport races (very careful there not to describe GFW as an adventure race!!) and would probably be more used to road races or triathlons and are using them as a frame of reference, hence the strange requests. Personally I think the rougher the terrain the better, but I still think its worthwhile pointing out changes in the course for people who can't do a recce beforehand. Like myself at the weekend I came off the end of the off road section and started barrelling down the hill on the bike only to find the surface had changed quite a bit and I was just about able to bring the bike under control before launching myself face first along the road! Don't want to change the course one bit but also don't want anyone to break bones!

Actually maybe someone could pick up some of the sheep sh1t along the Western Way??

Enduro

woody1 wrote: »

in general terms i wouldnt be defeatist at all,
but improvement is going to come with practice and i aint gonna get enough practice between now and the race..but hopefully for other races...ive enjoyed the couple of times ive been on it so i wouldnt rule out doing it a bit more..although it would require buying a mountain bike..which is a sickener as i sold one not all that long ago..

Welcome to the world of cycling, where the right number of bikes = the number of bikes you own + 1

woody1 wrote: »

yeah it was wet-ish..and i would be able to fix the rubbing brake issue myself anyway but i just couldnt get over how much the bike was still motoring even with the brakes jammed, just assumed it was normal given the steepness of the hill..and probably rain and sheep sh*t on the rims..
definitely not expensive rims..

You *should* be able to stop the bike (not instantly, but in a relatively controlled manner) no matter how steep or wet the hill (and in the end, even though it's quite steep, and definitely in truely crappy condition, its still not an alpine descent!), so something mechanical needs fixing. I've had similar "pull brakes, very little happens" episodes with my road bike on wet days, and its not a comfortable experience. The next set of pads I put on the bike happened to be more wet weather pads, and the difference was huge. With fresh pads it was back to being more like the stopping power and certainty of disc brakes. Make sure to let the lads in the shop know to do whatever is necessary to sort that for you. It'll be money very well spent.

shotgunmcos

Sure you can always stop quicker by diving off! Wouldn't put it past some of these AR loans!

gigantic09

Done this race once before 3 years ago.Not signed up yet but prob will this weekend.At the reek stage i recall that everybody seemed to be taking the shorter steeper route up.Is this still the preferred choice?.Think i will be taking the zig zag route this time and hope not to loose much time.Also i believe the initial run is slightly different and the off road hill climb is out.Does this mean the run is longer and is the new part of the run mainly on road or off road?.

woody1

ive tried both ways this year and i havent made my mind up yet.. probably the path..but it might come down to what everyone in front of me is doing at the time ..

Peterx

gigantic09 wrote: »

Done this race once before 3 years ago.Not signed up yet but prob will this weekend.At the reek stage i recall that everybody seemed to be taking the shorter steeper route up.Is this still the preferred choice?.Think i will be taking the zig zag route this time and hope not to loose much time.Also i believe the initial run is slightly different and the off road hill climb is out.Does this mean the run is longer and is the new part of the run mainly on road or off road?.

The initial run is now about 2km longer and instead of running over the first steep little hill and steep descent before reaching the Fiord it now skirts around that hill and joins the Fiord earlier, more road and more trail.
Unless you feeling very good heading towards the zig zag is probably better, Padraig Marrey possibly took an optimal line last with starting the zig zag track and cutting out part of it, it's all much more runnable that way.

nerraw1111

Peterx wrote: »

Unless you feeling very good heading towards the zig zag is probably better, Padraig Marrey possibly took an optimal line last with starting the zig zag track and cutting out part of it, it's all much more runnable that way.

At what part did he cut do you know? As in he left half way up the zig zags and headed straight up?

I found straight up and down to be quicker, particularly coming down.

gigantic09

Thanks for info Peterx.Times on initial run are very impressive considering it's alot longer than previously.I think that climb up the reek was the most difficult thing i have experienced in any event to date.Agree with previous poster that direct route down is the way to go but don't think my legs would be able for that route on the way up.Wish i had lined up this race earlier in the year as preparation far from ideal.Did the reek last week and still feeling the effects which isn't a great sign.

thehamo

Whats the terrain like coming down the side instead of the zig zag? (or going up for that matter) Past 2 times ive done it CP is the biggest time waster for me. Might consider the straight up and straight down option....

nerraw1111

thehamo wrote: »

Whats the terrain like coming down the side instead of the zig zag? (or going up for that matter) Past 2 times ive done it CP is the biggest time waster for me. Might consider the straight up and straight down option....

Some heather on climb itself. Useful to pull yourself up. Terrain is solid on way up mtn, just very steep.

Bit boggy in parts between the mtn and transition. Could lose time if you're not a good descender or if you're legs are fecked on the way up. Coming down is straight forward. Pick your own route and stay on your feet. Anytime I've done it, a fall would be cushioned by heather.

Skilgannon79

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Some heather on climb itself. Useful to pull yourself up. Terrain is solid on way up mtn, just very steep.

Bit boggy in parts between the mtn and transition. Could lose time if you're not a good descender or if you're legs are fecked on the way up. Coming down is straight forward. Pick your own route and stay on your feet. Anytime I've done it, a fall would be cushioned by heather.

Agree with nerraw, straight up is solid once you're off the flatter ground at the base but it is steep so it depends what you've left in you're legs at that stage. Coming straight down is definitely the best option if your legs are any way ok and even if you fall you have the cushioning of the heather! A good pair of trail runners really come into play on the way down here, it allows you to keep rolling forwards without having to worry about grip. If you're in road runners you might find it a bit more difficult to maintain grip and could spend a bit more time on your @ss but you should have nice soft landings.... hopefully!

hardCopy

I went up the heather and down the zig-zag last year, I'll probably try the opposite this time.

LaHaine

Very jealous of all doing it this year. I loved gaelforce west last year. Has its issues like any race but definitely my favourite race ive ever taken part in.

Great atmosphere in westport all weekend. From everyone munching on pasta the night before to all the limping bodies in the pubs the evening after the race is over, its just great craic. Enjoy!

nerraw1111

Anyone got any last min accommodation suggestions? Hotels, self catering etc

Nem_e

Well not the most pleasent especially if raining, camping is by far the cheapest and the GAA pitch at westport house has decent enough facilities and is about a 20 min walk to mill street in the morning. (can be nosiey friday night as people get back from registration.

I had taught of upgrading to a hotel or something but a quick search showed most places booked up now unless you go further afield to castlebar or some other town. but then you'll need to drive in the morning and get a parking permit. (not sure when the cut off date for asking for a parking permit)

"To get a permit you must email parking@gaelforceevents.com with your booking ID, name, where your accommodation is and your wave time

You must email the Gaelforce Event office before the 9th of August to reserve a parking permit."

Skilgannon79

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Anyone got any last min accommodation suggestions? Hotels, self catering etc

It might be worthwhile giving Kevin in Westport Estates and Leasing a call, (google search for the number!). They have apartments that they normally lease out longer term (not holiday rentals) that will be empty over the weekend and I got a very good rate off him for the Fri, Sat, Sun. They're beside the Asgard pub right on the Quays beside the finish line. Granted I have no idea what they're like but I'm in one for the weekend now anyway!

thehamo

Skilgannon79 wrote: »

Agree with nerraw, straight up is solid once you're off the flatter ground at the base but it is steep so it depends what you've left in you're legs at that stage. Coming straight down is definitely the best option if your legs are any way ok and even if you fall you have the cushioning of the heather! A good pair of trail runners really come into play on the way down here, it allows you to keep rolling forwards without having to worry about grip. If you're in road runners you might find it a bit more difficult to maintain grip and could spend a bit more time on your @ss but you should have nice soft landings.... hopefully!

Looks like a good option so. Bought my self a pair of Adidas Kanadia 4 which are pretty grippy. (couldnt afford the solomans or more expensive brands). Seemed pretty decent on the trails around Howth head so might go with the straight down option. Straight up im still undecided!

gigantic09

Out at Killary today to do first run.Very wet on the off-road section.This part is going to be very tricky on the day methinks.Quiet slippy in places and and also very mucky.This is one tough event:)!.

woody1

wasnt overly bothered about getting to see the run course before the race, but now i am,
another early morning drive this weekend i suppose...

ThisRegard

gigantic09 wrote: »

Out at Killary today to do first run.Very wet on the off-road section.This part is going to be very tricky on the day methinks.Quiet slippy in places and and also very mucky.This is one tough event:)!.

Whatever people do don't try run around the puddles and mud once you come off road. So many people fall into this trap and end up trying to run around by the bank and either slip on their asses and hurt themselves, or just get wet and filthy from the waist up. Just run through them as you're going to get wet and dirty anyway.

Nem_e

ThisRegard, excellent advice for all but one of the swampy looking holes as at most they’re about 3 - 6 inches deep.

But I have a golden memory of shouting out to the many runners around me to embrace the mud as I valiantly went down the middle of such a puddle as others struggled on the bank clinging to a wobbly fence.

I ended thigh deep in mud and had to Bear Grylls style crawl out of it

Rew

You can normally judge the ground based on footprints of the people ahead of you, if there is a footprint the ground is reasonably solid. Alos keep an eye a few meters in front of you as to where those people are stepping.

Bugsy2000

Did the section from Delphi to Westport yesterday with CP thrown in too. Hadn't been up to CP in a while & wanted to try out a different route than previously. The weather wasn't great, very wet all the way through but it was quite warm so it was easily bearable. I have attached the garmin links below, broken into each leg, for anyone who wants to look at them in greater detail.

The leg from Delphi to CP was easier than I remembered. I am hoping to do this on the day in about 90 - 100mins. Did it yesterday in 105 mins. And seeing as I took a wrong turn (just before bog road) & added in an extra mile, thats close enough. I was on a Specialized Allez road bike with Gatorskins & all of this section is easily cycleable. Some of the bog road is rough and you want your wits about you but the only part where I had any issue was if I had to come out of the saddle on an incline; I had no traction on the back wheel & it would slip in the mud. There is plenty of mud around as there is a lot of traffic there lately with people cutting turf so the road is fairly cut up in parts. One thing to note for people who aren't familiar with the route. Once you hit the bog road before CP you leave a tarmac road and start on rough gravel. This gravel road is all an uphill gradient until you reach a short tarmac section at the top. This section then starts downhill and just as you are getting some speed up the tarmac stops abrublty and you are right onto very rough rocky road again. If you haven't your wits about you here and have picked up a bit of speed you're in for a nasty surprise. (Ties in with the 19mile marker on the attached Garmin map)

I decided to take the route up CP as described by Peterx recently. Straight to the start of the zig zag and then cut off left. The straight run in is as boggy as ever but I didn't sink too much and was able to keep the forward momentum going. Once I hit the marker at the zig zag I cut left immediately. Again only one problem here. Yesterday was very low cloud and I couldn't even see the ridge never mind the top of CP so it was hard to keep your bearings. There are natural ridges in the hill side which run slightly upwards and I was inclined to just follow them where I should have been stepping up from one ridge to the next more often. I found it hard to know was I too far left / not far enough left / how close to the ridge I was. It'll be easier on the day as there will be a lot more traffic & I'll definitely take this route race day.

Exact same route coming down, no issues. For those who have done it before, you'll see from my map that I have stuck to the ridge for a bit before kicking off down the heather slope. Do people normally cut off earlier? Do you gain anything from trying to keep the line straighter coming down. It seems to me if you cut off any sooner you are nearly coming around the mountain instead of straight down.

The last cycle section for me is definitely the hardest, if only for a few minutes. Again its all cycleable but the highest point of the cycle and just as you hit the down slope on the other side is very very rough. If you are on a mountain / cyclocross bike you'll be fine but with skinny wheels it's all about not buckling your wheel. This section is just rocks, rocks and more rocks. (The garmin is a bit skewed here as I think I hit the start / stop with my wrist during all the hopping / shaking. Its shows me going over a cliff at one point) It's very wet here too so in parts the front wheel (skinny) just sank and I nearly went over the handlebars; and in areas that didn't even look mucky, it's just the ground is so saturated everywhere. Same problem here with no traction when up out of the saddle.

Delphi to CP

CP Up

CP Down

CP to Westport

nerraw1111

Cheers for that bugsy.

Re the ridge. I cut down about 100 metres from the zig zag start. Aim to run diagonally down the mtn back to transition.

Interesting reading Marrey's and Peterx's race reports from 2011 re zig zag up. I was planning on going straight up but not so sure now.