Descending at speed

teednab-el

Ok, can someone tell me how some people can fly down hills 35km/h+ and not be afraid of falling off? I went for a spin today and some people just flew past me on a steep descent. My strong point is my hill climbing on a bike I can make ground on other cyclists that way but not going down hill. Anything I could do to make me less fearful? The road bike I use is new and I have only ever cycled mountain bikes before. I would descend quicker with my mountain bike I feel. Will that come over time? Thanks.

ashleey

Practice. Anyway a bit of caution is hardly a failing. Unless you are racing just relax

lennymc

do a search, there was a good thread on descending recently. Think it was called feeling at one with the bike or something.

macnab

It comes with time and practice. Go a little faster each time, you will learn to trust your tyres etc. Coming from a motorbike background it was natural enough for me but doing over 70km/h on a bicycle down a hill is still scary stuff.

funnights74

Your own body weight will come into it as well. Heavier guys tend to descend faster than the lighter guys, i'm 63 Kgs and i'm a half decent climber but no matter how hard i push the bigger guys rocket past me on the descents. My technique is OK but that's just how it works.

ck101

After my smash on Friday and experiencing how easy it is to lose control with a front blow out my days of 50km + descents are well over.

2 Wheels Good

As Ashleey says, practice. Learn how to handle the bike and read the road ahead. As the speed goes up, you need to be ready for further ahead, not just what's directly in front of you.
I started out on an mtb so descending on those is easier, you've more control and stopping power. I ride my road bike much the same way as my mtb on descents, trying to be as relaxed as possible, much the same as Lennymc said. I wouldn't be the quickest but wouldn't count a hill as being quick until I could do > 60kph on it.

Raam

Some folk have it, some folk don't.

Just keep riding your bike and the confidence will grow. Don't take any chances. Get your braking done before any corners. A braking bike wants to go straight, not around a bend.

Maybe you can take something away from this article...
http://www.flammerouge.je/content/3_factsheets/2006/descend.htm

Raam

Oh, and look where you want to go, not at the side of the road or the item you are trying to avoid. It really works.

kenmc

experimenter

58kph is my max, with no issues, thank god. :eek:

bcmf

I find that if you look at the road ahead (say 10 -20 mtrs) your bike will follow the line you look at.

Dont fight the bike and relax.

Find out how you are most comfortable steering the bike: Hands on the hoods or in the drops. People will tell you different things about how your hand position affects handling but everybody is different.

Steer with your body by leaning and not 'steering'.

Learn how to brake. Feather the brakes rather then jump on. Scrub the speed as needs be by braking gently before the corner and using the the speed to exit the corner.

Learn the limit of your tyres.

HTH

Captain Havoc

kenmc wrote: »

I think these would be more appropriate:

kenmc

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think these would be more appropriate:

Jeez the TdeF has only just started and suddenly we're all speaking fluent french?

teednab-el

I feel if I left my bike take off it would be suicide for me but again I'm fearful anyway. I'm not able to handle speeds over 35km/h. I was looking at the tour de france during the week and seeing a bad crash on the race makes me think twice. Anyway I'm not doing too bad with a top speed of 35km/h

Lusk Doyle

teednab-el wrote: »

Anyway I'm not doing too bad with a top speed of 35km/h

Where?

teednab-el

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Where?

My descent speed. Not that impressive I know.

Lusk Doyle

teednab-el wrote: »

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Where?

My descent speed. Not that impressive I know.

Where? Not what.

RossieMan

35km/h?

i have one of 50 km and thought that was slow.

just be confident, if you are afraid of it, of course you will fall off and hurt yourself.

find a nice big road, go out when its quiet and pop that cherry of yours.

teednab-el

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Where? Not what.

sorry my fault, the descent from mols gap.

teednab-el

RossieMan wrote: »

35km/h?

i have one of 50 km and thought that was slow.

just be confident, if you are afraid of it, of course you will fall off and hurt yourself.

find a nice big road, go out when its quiet and pop that cherry of yours.

I don't think my bike could handle that speed without rocking. I want to do the ROK so I won't try anything silly until after it. I will accept that it's something I must work on. Next time il try 38km/h and take it from there.

RossieMan

What type of bike do you have?

my friend has a crappy old mountain bike and went 80 km/h down a massive hill, i certainly wouldn't do it on it, but thats just an example.

i wouldn't really consider top speed important, but if you don't go quickly downhill it can mean more work on the legs on the flats, so i go as quickly as possible downhill.

kenmc

35km/h on a descent? I wouldn't even bother going uphill for that to be honest. Descents are what makes climbing worthwhile! Nothing like the wind in your ears. 78km/h is the fastest I remember seeing recently. I averaged 33.6 on yesterdays *climbing* TT in the mullingar 2 day, and was only 29th or something!

What sort of speed do you do on the flat?

kenmc

teednab-el wrote: »

I don't think my bike could handle that speed without rocking. .

Your bike is more than capable of more than 35km/h. The wheels are gyroscopes - they want to stay upright.

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

35km/h on a descent? I wouldn't even bother going uphill for that to be honest. Descents are what makes climbing worthwhile! Nothing like the wind in your ears. 78km/h is the fastest I remember seeing recently. I averaged 33.6 on yesterdays *climbing* TT in the mullingar 2 day, and was only 29th or something!

What sort of speed do you do on the flat?

Why are you so critical of me? Like I said I'm pretty new to cycling, I bought a new road bike, never had one before only a MTB, which I havent cycled in years. Yes I'm very slow descending I know, its really bad but it doesn't make me feel any better comparing me to you, you are an experienced road cyclist, I'm not. Only looking for advice on things that might help me improve.


I do have good power in my legs though and find climbing hills easy enough.

teednab-el

RossieMan wrote: »

What type of bike do you have?

my friend has a crappy old mountain bike and went 80 km/h down a massive hill, i certainly wouldn't do it on it, but thats just an example.

i wouldn't really consider top speed important, but if you don't go quickly downhill it can mean more work on the legs on the flats, so i go as quickly as possible downhill.

Trek road bike.

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

What sort of speed do you do on the flat?

Anything from 25km/h to 35km/h

RossieMan

teednab-el wrote: »

Trek road bike.

Trek 1.2?

if so, i've the exact same bike.
i've just, just started cycling, only this week.

your biggest problem seems to be yourself.

from my massively limited experience, you don't really notice the difference between 30 km/h and 50 km/h.

maybe when you go up to 70km/h you might feel the difference.

OP, i think you should go at whatever pace you are happy with, but going quickly downhill will enhance your experience and give some extra zing to the cycling.

maybe go out with some friends? that way you might be peer pressured into going that bit quicker, and actually enjoy it.

kenmc

Is it the speed, or the steepness that scares you? Would you be happy to do 45km/h on a very very slight downhill with a tailwind for example?
I'm not trying to be critical btw, I was just pointing out as an example, how sedate 35km/h is. On my commute on the flat, with a heavy bike and panniers, I'd often be doing 35km or so, never mind on any descents.

The bike is entirely capable of the speed (assuming it's not a completely seized rustbucket, which it doesn't sound like), you just need to trust in the bike, and your abilities, which will come with time. In fairness it's probably actually *harder* to stay on your brakes the whole time on the descent than it is to just 'go with it'.

For what it's worth, I always descend in the drops, you've more leverage on the brakes, your hands won't fall off the bars or the hoods and your center of gravity is lowest. After that it's all about trust. Trust your tyres. Trust yourself. Enjoy the thrill.

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

Is it the speed, or the steepness that scares you? Would you be happy to do 45km/h on a very very slight downhill with a tailwind for example?
I'm not trying to be critical btw, I was just pointing out as an example, how sedate 35km/h is. On my commute on the flat, with a heavy bike and panniers, I'd often be doing 35km or so, never mind on any descents.

The bike is entirely capable of the speed (assuming it's not a completely seized rustbucket, which it doesn't sound like), you just need to trust in the bike, and your abilities, which will come with time. In fairness it's probably actually *harder* to stay on your brakes the whole time on the descent than it is to just 'go with it'.

For what it's worth, I always descend in the drops, you've more leverage on the brakes, your hands won't fall off the bars or the hoods and your center of gravity is lowest. After that it's all about trust. Trust your tyres. Trust yourself. Enjoy the thrill.

Ok no problem. Btw I am trying to take everyone's input on board here and try to put it to use next time I ride the bike.

I don't know if its a bit of everything, if its me, my confidence in my handling, brakes or just the lightness of the bike and hitting a bump/pothole. I find that my hands hurt when pressing the brakes slightly down a fall. I am getting the feel of the bike and the positions my hands should be in when climbing and descending. Il try and do that and go that bit faster next time and see where it gets me. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

Is it the speed, or the steepness that scares you? Would you be happy to do 45km/h on a very very slight downhill with a tailwind for example?
I'm not trying to be critical btw, I was just pointing out as an example, how sedate 35km/h is. On my commute on the flat, with a heavy bike and panniers, I'd often be doing 35km or so, never mind on any descents.

The bike is entirely capable of the speed (assuming it's not a completely seized rustbucket, which it doesn't sound like), you just need to trust in the bike, and your abilities, which will come with time. In fairness it's probably actually *harder* to stay on your brakes the whole time on the descent than it is to just 'go with it'.

For what it's worth, I always descend in the drops, you've more leverage on the brakes, your hands won't fall off the bars or the hoods and your center of gravity is lowest. After that it's all about trust. Trust your tyres. Trust yourself. Enjoy the thrill.

Would you still descend at high speeds if you didn't know the road?

A lot of my treks are first time experiences too.

kenmc

yes, but within the limits as far as I can see. although I suppose I'm an adrenaline junkie, always have been

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

yes, but within the limits as far as I can see. although I suppose I'm an adrenaline junkie, always have been

You definitely have something I dont so. Fair play to you. The trek I did today had rain blowing into my face too so it makes visibility that bit harder also.

2 Wheels Good

teednab-el wrote: »

Would you still descend at high speeds if you didn't know the road?

A lot of my treks are first time experiences too.

Like I said in my previous post, learn to read the road ahead (And don't check the speedo to see what speed you're doing) even if it's on roads you know, hitting a loose stone on the road at 50 or 60 kph isn't something you want to do.
Get comfortable and you'll increase your max speed and average speed over time. I learnt to downhill on an mtb on rough country lanes with grass in the middle, anything is easy after that Down from Molls Gap has plenty blind spots and sheep to contend with so 35 kph isn't too bad, if that's your locality head over to the county bounds and you've 3 lanes width of road to practice on.

smacl

I'd suggest practice going faster on shallower inclines and straighter roads, and stay within the limits of what you find comfortable on the steep hills with blind bends. Similarly, go out in crap weather and crap surfaces to get a feel for them.

For what it's worth, I always descend in the drops, you've more leverage on the brakes, your hands won't fall off the bars or the hoods and your center of gravity is lowest.

+1, drops all the way going downhill, also having your ass lifted very slightly off the saddle makes travelling over bad surfaces much easier. FWIW, I didn't start feeling any love for my road bike at all until I got comfortable descending in the drops.

seamus

kenmc is a very strong descender to be fair, he smokes most people down the hills.

I would be middling; I've no real issues with speeds of 70km/h+ when I can see down the road, but I'm a bit nervy on corners so I lose a lot of speed there. I'm a complete pussy on wet roads. It's not something I've any compunction to work on (yet) because I still have fun with it without scaring the ****e out of myself.
I tend to go very motorist when descending so I scrub the speed when I think there's a chance a car could come out of a driveway or if I can't see properly past the guy in front. I see a lot of other people trusting that the guy in front is watching out, but I can't do that when descending.
I naturally go much faster on descents that I'm familiar with.

I did find MTBing a bit of an eye-opening experience actually because you start to find out what level of control you really can have over dodgy surfaces.

langdang

Moll's gap down into Killarney? Or Moll's gap down into Kenmare?

A while since I've done either on a bike, but the descent down into killarney is tricky in fairness - you really need to move yourself and the bike around to get the most out of those corners. It's like a mountain bike slalom course on tarmac for some stretches. Real adrenaline junky's descent if you go at it full tilt.

Great place to practice though - if you're fast there you can tackle any road descent with confidence.

Molls gap down into Kenmare is a what most people would be used to as a road descent - 55-60kph should be easy enough to do there (open to correction from more knowledgeable folks)

furiousox

Hadn't seen this thread before but I asked a similar question here recently and got some good advice.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056681365

ednwireland

i do a 50 - 60 km/h descent every day into work you sort of get used to not touching the brakes unless you have to

Dr_Colossus

The great man Sean Kelly is said to have reached his max speed descending the Col de Joux Plane in the TdeF doing an incredible 124km/h. The man however recently commented that while doing that descent a rider flew past him and he couldn't keep their wheel. Goes to show no matter how fast you go someone will always go quicker but that's crazy stuff.

t'bear

And to see what thats like.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx4vabZXdbs

El.duderino

Use the road sides as a guide. Like driving a car.

Now there are other unseen obstacles. Lurking with bated breath to scare the bejayuz out of ya. Some are half dead like the cruagh zombie Labrador. Some are mental `the sheepdog of crone.

Feckin DAGS!

Other less mobile obstacles include sheep,tourists,horses,tourers,walkers!

smacl

El.duderino wrote: »

Some are half dead like the cruagh zombie Labrador

..who is regularly asleep on the road, though pretty harmless outside of obstacle value. Love that descent since the road was resurfaced, even though I don't do any great speed on it, after passing the pine forest turn off.

teednab-el

langdang wrote: »

Moll's gap down into Killarney? Or Moll's gap down into Kenmare?

A while since I've done either on a bike, but the descent down into killarney is tricky in fairness - you really need to move yourself and the bike around to get the most out of those corners. It's like a mountain bike slalom course on tarmac for some stretches. Real adrenaline junky's descent if you go at it full tilt.

Great place to practice though - if you're fast there you can tackle any road descent with confidence.

Molls gap down into Kenmare is a what most people would be used to as a road descent - 55-60kph should be easy enough to do there (open to correction from more knowledgeable folks)

Molls gap into Killarney is what I did and hadn't done it on a bike before.

Esroh

Op
I not sure what its called but the other main climb on ROK has a nice wide road I think you should cover your speedo and just relax. (bring a plaster with you to cover it.You will hit 35+ just on freewheeling away from the water stop) what you cannot see will not frighten you.
This day next week you will be telling us how fast you went and what a buzz you got;)

teednab-el

Esroh wrote: »

Op
I not sure what its called but the other main climb on ROK has a nice wide road I think you should cover your speedo and just relax. (bring a plaster with you to cover it.You will hit 35+ just on freewheeling away from the water stop) what you cannot see will not frighten you.
This day next week you will be telling us how fast you went and what a buzz you got;)

I descended at 45km/h today on one descent. I just went for it lowered my centre of gravity by dropping my hands to drop down bars and slightly rose my rear off the saddle. Still not massively quick but definitely an improvement. Getting that bit more confident with my bike.

kenmc

well done, soon you'll be wanting to go faster and faster

are you pedalling downhill? what do you do with your pedals? ie where do you position them?
don't look at your Speedo!

teednab-el

kenmc wrote: »

well done, soon you'll be wanting to go faster and faster

are you pedalling downhill? what do you do with your pedals? ie where do you position them?
don't look at your Speedo!

Didn't look at speedo today but my cateye computer recorded a top speed of 57km/h. Progress not too bad. Would like to hit 70km/h at some stage.

Lusk Doyle

teednab-el wrote: »

kenmc wrote: »

well done, soon you'll be wanting to go faster and faster

are you pedalling downhill? what do you do with your pedals? ie where do you position them?
don't look at your Speedo!

Didn't look at speedo today but my cateye computer recorded a top speed of 57km/h. Progress not too bad. Would like to hit 70km/h at some stage.

Getting there! Apparently, fear is not a factor for you! Anymore.

Lashtown

i got 72.8km/hr coming down off sally gap in the ww200 this year. might have got more if not for the wavy riders on front of me. would love to break 80km/hr before the summers out.
Anyone know where the biggest descents are around the country?

kenmc

yay! now find a bigger hill...