Do You Feel 'At One' With Your Bike When Descending At Speed?

furiousox wrote: »

Just wondering if you feel you and the bike are in perfect harmony on a fast descent?
I never really feel that I'm 'at one' with the bike, more that I'm a passenger perched on top and just hanging on!
You can see as a pro cyclist descends he's hitting incredible speeds, gently feathering the brakes and taking corners in a beautiful wide sweeping motion.
I haven't got that relaxed fluid motion that they have, shifting their body weight left and right as required while entering corners etc.
I'm trying to work out why and I'm putting it down to several factors.

They're lighter and they have better core flexibility.
They're racing on closed roads so they know there's no danger of oncoming traffic and they can use the entire width of the road to take a corner.
I'm wondering if I need to play around with my bike setup to see if that makes a difference but I'm inclined to think that my weight (14st) and (lack of) flexibility may have a lot to do with it as I struggle to get low in the drops for any length of time.
I know if I was a couple of stone lighter it would make a difference to ascending but would it help on the descent as well?
Thoughts?

The roads they descend on aren't full of potholes, nor do they have gravel at the apex, or perhaps some sheep taking a stroll across the racing line. I don't know if I am at one with my bike on descents, but I am definitely not at one with my roads on descents.

I don't know what the accepted wisdom on this is but in my view good descending comes from a combination of several factors, some of which are interdependent:

* good bike control i.e. being a confident bike handler
* being relaxed (which can stem from being a confident bike handler)
* good bike position - if you feel you are fighting the bike, due to poor bike fit, then it's very hard to feel relaxed
* faith in you tyres
* knowing the roads - you'll always be more cautious/cagey on a road that you are not familiar with since you don't know how severe the imminent bend is, what the road surface is like, the likelihood of a possible obstruction just beyond sight (e.g. a junction, entrance to house(s),...). It's certainly possible to read certain things about a road first time down it, but it can be tricky.

etc. Correct bike fit is in your direct control, though it's not always easy to achieve. I find descending on my current (fitted) bikes much better than on my previous bike where the reach was too long, the distance to the bar drops was too much, and the saddle was too high (lowering the saddle lowers your centre of gravity, which can help with bike handling). Good bike handling comes with time and practice, and everything else follows from there I think. To my mind body weight doesn't really play much of a part, unless you are so big that moving around on the bike is difficult and/or slow perhaps - likewise for flexibility.

Mountain biking is a great way to develop bike handling skills - you are always having to watch for a good line when riding offroad and this makes doing likewise on the road second nature, which really helps on a descent. Generally mucking about on a road (or any) bike helps too - for example, on my commute I track stand at most red lights, I bunnyhop things at times, I kick the back wheel up when stopping quite often, etc., all of which are unnecessary but when done daily contribute more and more over time to a degree of confidence in handling a(ny) bike.

yeah in general, up until about the 70kph mark where it starts to become a bit twitchy

without wanting to sound like an ass, i like to think im a handy descender. I have confidence in my ability to get the bike round the corner, and i dont mind a 'loose' bike under me. Ive had front wheel punctures while descending (no blowouts) and have come across gravel out of corners.

I raced motorbikes - which has helped me in my cornering, and weight distribution on the bike. going through debtors at 140 mph is wayyyyy scarier than any corner ive ever experienced on a push bike. IMHO and in my experience, body position is really important, as it contributes massively to weight distribution on the bike, which will affect how the bike feels.

I also do quite a bit of mountain biking in the winter, where the bike is very loose (wheels tracking in roughly the direction your pointing them). This helps me relax on the bike, which is very important. Th front wheel will slide a bit, the rear wheel will slide a bit, but most times the bike will head away in the direction you want. Sometimes you crash Full body armour helps.

So, my tips for descending (ymmv, try them at your own peril etc)
Stay relaxed on the bike. If you have a death grip and tensed elbows, or legs, any movement you make is transferred to the bike. I like to descend with my elbows bent and loose, with a soild (but not rigid) grip on the drops, covering the brakes and feathering as required. Use your elbows and knees as shock absorbers to isolate as many of the bumps on the road from your body as possible, resulting in a smoother ride.

Position on the bike. I tend to hold myself about an inch off the saddle on bumpier sections when going downhill, again, this helps isolate the bumps from the rider.

Confidence in your abilities. You must have confidence in your abilites to control the bike in fast descents. Anyone can sit on a bike at whatever speed on a downhill, but you need to be able to anticipate and react to any potential hazards on the road ahead of you. When I say abilities I mean the whole package, not just how you handle your bike. Read the road ahead, keep your eyes up, follow the vanishing point (where the tarmac disapears going round a corner), use road furniture to see the turn of the road, use road position to maximise your view around a corner, and a whole lot more. Again, going back to the motorbikes, I did advanced training and applied a lot of what i was throught to bike riding. I will allways try to ride round an obstacle rather than brake (where possible), and i will allways be aware of needing an escape route.

Ride your own course. Riding based on other riders road position is also bad. If they make a mess, you will automatically follow them. if im behind a rider on a descent, and i cant get by him, i will kind of stick my head out and look past him, and make any decisions based on what I see, not on what the rider in front of me does. If they are riding beyond their limits, the may crash, and if you are following them, you will crash too.

Confidence in your bike. If you dont have confidence in your bike, you shouldnt really be ridining it. you must know that your bike is in 100% working condition. Brakes are good, tyres are good, drive train etc are good.

you go where you look! Keep your head up, and your eyes on the road ahead. I break the road up into near, middle, far. I cant really do anything about near so it gets the least of my attention. (besides, i should have seen it). Middle gets a bit more of my attention, because i may be able to do something about it. Far gets a good deal of my attention, as its the one i can do most about and adjust my course accordingly. Another thing to avoid is target fixatio. If you fixate on something (a tree, gravel, a pothole, wall etc) you are more likely to hit it. If you notice pro riders never look where they are, but rather where they are going. So, keep those eyes up!!

Accept that you may crash. This is probably one of the hardest things to do. If you accept that you may crash, and it may hurt, then (imho) you have gotten over a huge mental barrier. Obviously do your best not to crash, but, sometimes your best is not good enough.

Weigh up your pros and cons and make a decision on wether you want to descend faster or not. I descend fast cos im slow going up climbs. I race a4 and hopefully next year want to move up a category, so i need to keep my descending skills sharp (at least thats what i tell myself, i also love speed). Cycle to your strengths and all that

Thats kind of all i can think of at the moment, im sure there are some more things, if they come to me i will post them.

hopefully this will help a few people, but as stated, you try it at your own risk. i accept no responsability for anything.

I'm a terrible descender, and it's my least favourite part of cycling. It's no problem when I'm out by myself, but on club spins I'm constantly getting dropped on descents, and then having to haul my 97kg up the next climb in order to get back on. Did a long, fast club spin around Blessington lakes and Hollywood yesterday morning. Plenty of descents, and my max speed for the day was just over 50km/h. Even at that kind of speed I just feel really uncomfortable on the bike. I have only been cycling since last September though, so maybe my confidence will grow as I get more experienced. But for now I just haven't the nerve to go at speed.

I think the objective with descending should be to descend better, not faster. Once you can descend well you can add speed safely without turning it into a game of roulette.

Focus on the symptoms of poor descending, like going back on the brakes mid-corner, or finding yourself surprised by a tightening bend radius.

I prefer to descend with an "empty brain", not relying on any memory of the roads; this is convenient as I have a crap memory. Thinking you know what's round the corner is a very, very bad idea.

Much of good driving technique applies equally to descending on a bike, like limit point/vanishing point analysis.

Descending like a pro is completely different. They must rely on memory of a descent as doing limit point analysis would result in getting dropped. When they get surprised they often crash, but that's racing and the ambulance isn't far away.

Great advice Lenny - I'm a decent descender and you've articulated the skills necessary much better than I could. I've had a few crashes while descending, the latest at 50kph on the tour de Burren, but I've been lucky with most of them. I would add to your don't be afraid to crash point that you often get a second or two before you crash where it's inevitable, and there's a lot you can do in that short window of time to minimise the potential injury.

1. You're going to crash, there's no way out, accept it and don't try anything even more dangerous to recover - e.g. I came around a bend, lost a rear wheel and ended up heading straight at a car on the opposite side of the road - I didn't try a kamikaze mission to go around the car, I just headed for the ditch
2. Try to pick the best spot for landing in - obviously look for softer materials, vegetation etc. remember that briars and nettles are a hell of a lot softer than stone walls or rocks so don't be afraid to ditch into a patch of thorns - I ended up with a leg full of bloody scratches but nothing broken
3. Relax - I know it's hard, but try not to be too tense. Think about taking a hit in rugby or some contact sport where you can let your body absorb the impact.
4. Lift yourself off the saddle a little bit - you don't want the frame to catch you between your legs

Lumen is spot on with descending better rather than faster though - a lot of the improvements you make will actually help you to go faster in the long run (e.g. brake before a bend and you can accelerate out of it)

definately agree with lumens point about being a better descender rather than a faster descender. Also, I allways try to have an escape route - what i mean by that is somewhere I can go that will either allow me to avoid a hazard, or if i cant avoid it, minimise any hurt. As mcgratheoin says, it can hurt a lot less to come to a stop in a ditch than in a wall. Practice, relaxation and being smooth and confident will make you a better descender, and with that will come speed. IMHO.

That link lumen posted is excellent as it goes through some of the theory of going through a corner. I would add that lane position is something that a rider can add that a car driver cant. If you are coming to a right hand corner, and take up a position on the left hand side of the lane, you will see further around the corner than if you were in the right hand side of the lane. The right hand side of the lane would be a faster line through the corner as you would hit the apex, and travel less distance, but the left hand side of the lane would allow you to see a longer vanishing point.

these pictures show what i mean regarding lane position:


rider on the left hand side of his lane, can see further round the right hand corner


rider on the right hand side of his lane can see further round the left hand corner

ROK ON wrote: »

Big thanks Lenny.
I like descending but would hope that I am sensible.
If I can't see what's ahead then I descend reasonably slowly.

There is a descent that I know lime the back of my hand. The straight stretches are now more than a few hundred meters in length. It continually turns into blind corners (tree cover etc means you cannot see oncoming traffic). Furthermore it is wide enough for one car. Consequently I descend that road with extreme caution. Continually amazed by those who tear into blin corners with no ability to see oncoming traffic.
Hope is not a strategy.

I have seen three different ways of corner safely and quickly on descents.
What works best for me is to counter lean.
Turning left, the bike leans left, while I fully extend my right leg and let arm to shift my centre or gravity over the centre of the bike.
I find this works for me. Would be interested in seeing how others do it.

Interestingly my best ever descent was following the line of a motorbike marshal coming down the Conor pass. Just followed his line.

If you were doing it right, the motorbike should have been following you!

furiousox wrote: »

Lenny seems to have covered this in his posts, might have to print them off and keep them for future reference!

Don't read them whilst descending. That will end badly.