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If Charge was struck out would it show on a vetting form?

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    #32
    MarkyMark22
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭MarkyMark22


    Isn't it for them to prove your guilt, rather than for you to prove your innocence?


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    #33
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    MarkyMark22 wrote: »
    Isn't it for them to prove your guilt, rather than for you to prove your innocence?
    Yes. There is no obligation to assist them in doing so.


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    #34
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    MarkyMark22 wrote: »
    Isn't it for them to prove your guilt, rather than for you to prove your innocence?

    Sure, but at that stage you are in court. There's no obligation on a suspect to assist the investigation (bar some particular obligations mainly under the Offences Against the State Acts) but it can certainly be in the interests of an innocent accused to establish at an early stage that he/she could not have committed the offence so as to preclude a prosecution proceeding to trial. Again, though, no obligation.


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    #35
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    BornToKill wrote: »
    So as to end the misunderstanding and not get charged and not have to go through a court appearance to face criminal charges?


    So after all that you stil have a record?


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    #36
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    So after all that you stil have a record?

    No you do not. What would be the point of charging someone with a crime when they can show they were out of the country at the time? So there would be no prosecution and no subsequent acquittal.


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    #37
    MarkyMark22
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭MarkyMark22


    BornToKill wrote: »
    Sure, but at that stage you are in court. There's no obligation on a suspect to assist the investigation (bar some particular obligations mainly under the Offences Against the State Acts) but it can certainly be in the interests of an innocent accused to establish at an early stage that he/she could not have committed the offence so as to preclude a prosecution proceeding to trial. Again, though, no obligation.

    Completely understand that. And I'm sure thats what happens.

    Just seems surprising that someone who genuinely is completely innocent, and has been found completely innocent, can still have some blotches on their record.

    Maybe it's different for people who plead not guilty, then are proven innocent.

    Rather then having plead guilty and have a case struck out.

    It's an interesting one though.

    I for one don't feel hard done by it, as I was extremely grateful to have my case struck out.

    But if someone was genuinely innocent and had been charged etc, they have every right to be outraged by it.


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    #38
    MarkyMark22
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭MarkyMark22


    BornToKill wrote: »
    No you do not. What would be the point of charging someone with a crime when they can show they were out of the country at the time? So there would be no prosecution and no subsequent acquittal.

    As the person who posted that said, he was exaggerating to make a point.

    I'm sure people have been charged and then found innocent in court before?


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    #39
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    MarkyMark22 wrote: »
    Just seems surprising that someone who genuinely is completely innocent, and has been found completely innocent, can still have some blotches on their record.

    I have never heard of someone being found completely innocent. I believe the finding is 'not guilty'.


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    #40
    MarkyMark22
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭MarkyMark22


    BornToKill wrote: »
    I have never heard of someone being found completely innocent. I believe the finding is 'not guilty'.

    Well I'm sure completely innocent people have been found not guilty.


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    #41
    BornToKill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    MarkyMark22 wrote: »
    Well I'm sure completely innocent people have been found not guilty.

    I'm sure they have too. Not 'completely innocent' though.


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    #42
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    BornToKill wrote: »
    So as to end the misunderstanding and not get charged and not have to go through a court appearance to face criminal charges?

    Oops, got my posts mixed up. Sorry.


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    #43
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    MarkyMark22 wrote: »
    Just seems surprising that someone who genuinely is completely innocent, and has been found completely innocent not guilty, can still have some blotches on their record.

    .


    This is my point exactly. Why would such a thing be placed on your record if you did nothing wrong? It could seriously harm your chances of being hired etc etc.


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    #44
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Being not guilty does not mean you didn't do it.


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    #45
    Dandelion6
    Registered Users Posts: 1,405 ✭✭✭Dandelion6


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    Being not guilty does not mean you didn't do it.

    Legally, that's exactly what it means. So why should a legal record show a charge for which the person was acquitted?


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    #46
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Dandelion6 wrote: »
    Legally, that's exactly what it means. So why should a legal record show a charge for which the person was acquitted?

    Because it happened. It happened in a public court. Like I already said, there are three records you can apply for. A certificate of clearance is used for foreign travel and employment. It only shows successful convictions. The second is the vetting form which is available only by application through your employer and is required for particular jobs. It shows all prosecutions in public courts. So there is already a public record of these. The third is a data protection application which shows all your dealings with the gardai. It is sometimes requests by employers too.


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