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Old Irish beliefs/superstitions about building on possibly haunted land

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  • 29-06-2012 2:58am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭


    Apologies if there is an already existing thread, I couldn't find one. I was at the 2010 World Ghost Convention and one of the speakers, possibly Paul O'Halloran I don't remember, mentioned there was an old Irish belief that if you were going to build your dwelling on a patch of land, before you laid any foundations, you had to put in a number of wooden poles/posts. When you returned the following day and any of the wooden posts were on the ground, the spirits didn't want you to build there.

    My mother also mentioned a belief that if cattle would not graze or sleep in a parcel of land, it was not a good place to build there as it could be haunted.

    Just wondering has anything further to elaborate on these or heard any other sort of superstitions like that?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    i think thats in reference to the faeries . if you build on one of their paths they'd destroy what you built. I really, really, really, really doubt its true.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭boredatwork82


    I wouldn't be taking chances. Especially if your going to be spending loads of money. I worked in a factory that had a fairy fort on the grounds. They refused to touch the fairy fort, and built a steel fence around it to protect it from any damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    The speaker definitely said it was in relation to hauntings, but that's really interesting!

    Yeah, I'm not building a house, just looking for information on what people might have heard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    ive never heard of spirits or ghosts in reference to land or buildings in ireland - its usually based around the wee folk - who apparently werent very small at all, but thats a whole other story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Apologies if there is an already existing thread, I couldn't find one. I was at the 2010 World Ghost Convention and one of the speakers, possibly Paul O'Halloran I don't remember, mentioned there was an old Irish belief that if you were going to build your dwelling on a patch of land, before you laid any foundations, you had to put in a number of wooden poles/posts. When you returned the following day and any of the wooden posts were on the ground, the spirits didn't want you to build there.

    I saw him speak at the Ghost Convention that year too. I thought his talk was the most interesting. The White Witch's talk, on the other hand, was the most hilarious. :) Anyway, similar to what your mother said, he also mentioned then that cattle won't go near 'haunted land'.

    I remember him mentioning a 'haunted' area of land in Ireland where a brutal battle from centuries before was still in full swing. Apparently the spirits of the people who were fighting hadn't 'moved on' because they didn't realise they were dead and, so, were stuck in this continuum, or 'loop', where they were still in the throes of battle..

    But RE: the animals steering clear of certain land - I guess it's due to animals possible 'sensing' that something's 'wrong'. Doesn't matter if it's a dog, a cat or a cow - they all seem to react to these sorts of things similarly.

    I'm sure most people have heard about the animals behaving strangely before the 2004 tsunami hit India and Sri Lanka.

    Dogs refused to go outdoors, zoo animals retreated to their shelters and couldn't be cajoled into coming out, flamingos abandoned their low-lying breeding areas, and elephants screamed and ran for higher ground. Apparently this wasn't typical behaviour for them.

    Maybe animals' perception isn't confined to the mundane plane/earthly reality? They might be more multidimensional, hence why they might stay away from 'haunted land' or land that will soon be subjected to treacherous conditions. It's interesting anyway.

    I just remembered a guy named Eddie Lenihan who's supposed to be something of an expert on fairies and Irish traditional folklore and superstitions. He 'saved' a bush that belonged to the fairies a few years ago apparently - developers were going to tear the bush down and build on the land (which Eddie said would have been a fatal decision - the wrath of the fairies and all that).

    There's an article about him here: http://www.irishexaminer.com/features/ghosts-piseogs-and-frightening-folktales-172070.html
    Lenihan has a particular interest in fairies and the beliefs that older generations had about them, and in 1999 he led a successful campaign to prevent a sceach, or fairy bush, from being destroyed by roadworks in Co Clare. The storyteller has also had an enduring fascination with haunted places, fairy paths and holy wells and his stories for both adults and children are by turns comedic, haunting and grotesque.

    Another article about Eddie and his thoughts on fairies and the like: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/travel/irelands-hidden-gems/the-truth-about-fairies-and-leprechauns-just-in-time-for-st-patricks-day-117148883.html
    But fairies....they do exist, Oh yes and here in Ireland we do not mess with the fairies, ever! They are known to live in very special places called fairy rings, which are raised earthen circular mounds that you will see all over Ireland.

    You are welcome to visit them, walk around them, make a wish by all means .... But it is thought to be very bad luck to interfere with these mounds. Driving motorways through them, Bad Very Bad....Certain trees are revered too, especially hawthorns which country people will never chop down or remove for fear of disturbing the fairies who often live underneath and who are likely to wreak havoc if disturbed? ie, sour milk, cause crops to fail, animals to sicken and die.....

    Jaysus, the beard on Eddie!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    dont forget that various animals are more sensitive to environment changes that humans. cattle apparently pick up on raydon, and avoid areas of ground wheres its prevalent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    maccored wrote: »
    dont forget that various animals are more sensitive to environment changes that humans. cattle apparently pick up on raydon, and avoid areas of ground wheres its prevalent.

    +1 That's a very good point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    I saw him speak at the Ghost Convention that year too. I thought his talk was the most interesting. The White Witch's talk, on the other hand, was the most hilarious. :) Anyway, similar to what your mother said, he also mentioned then that cattle won't go near 'haunted land'.

    I remember him mentioning a 'haunted' area of land in Ireland where a brutal battle from centuries before was still in full swing. Apparently the spirits of the people who were fighting hadn't 'moved on' because they didn't realise they were dead and, so, were stuck in this continuum, or 'loop', where they were still in the throes of battle..

    Yeah he was very interesting, I could have listened to his stories and experiences all night! :) I'm kicking myself for not recording his talk, I have a head like a sieve! I won't forget the White Witch and her spirits of misdirection in the Kerry mountains though! :rolleyes:

    I'd know from walking my own pooches that they can be creeped out by things I'd be oblivious too, some of the things easily explained like a fox being nearby, others not so much! I'd be of the opinion that they'd know something was up, I've heard the stories about animals before the tsunami too, pandas screaming, goldfish jumping out of bowls, etc. Very interesting if there's a reason how they know, my pooches are afraid of their own shadows and then they growl at thin air! :p

    My knowledge of faeries or the wee people would be very limited, I'll admit, but these will make for great reading! :) The lore is really interesting, I remember my nana getting very cross with my dad when he nearly cut down one of the hawthorn trees in her garden!

    Holy mother, he once told a few stories to a group of children in my local library in 1996 and scared the bejesus out of me! Haha, it's such a small world, I'd forgotten all about him :o

    That's a brilliant amount of information, thanks a million guys! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    maccored wrote: »
    dont forget that various animals are more sensitive to environment changes that humans. cattle apparently pick up on raydon, and avoid areas of ground wheres its prevalent.

    Handy to know, you definitely don't want to build on any areas where radon gas is being emitted! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Yeah he was very interesting, I could have listened to his stories and experiences all night! smile.gif I'm kicking myself for not recording his talk, I have a head like a sieve! I won't forget the White Witch and her spirits of misdirection in the Kerry mountains though! rolleyes.gif

    My sister actually recorded both his talk and the White Witch's talk (probably to laugh at later!). I got her to put them on a disc for me, so, as soon as I have them (she needed to post it), I'll see if I can upload them to a file hosting site and then put the link here. smile.gif I wanted to hear more from O'Halloran too - he was full of interesting stories, from his time serving in the Lebanon, to working as a physio for the Irish rugby team, to his strange encounters as part of his healing/shaman work.

    Oh yes, I remember the White Witch's story about herself and her fellow witches-in-training being in the Kerry mountains and encountering a 20-feet tall mist, I believe! Comedy gold. I think she said she told him/it off, and then she told the audience something like,"So he ran away. Well, no, he didn't run actually because he was a mist, you know. Mists can't run obviously." Cracked me up!

    I can also recall something about her being bullied by a co-worker when she was a young trainee nurse, prompting her to write the co-worker's name on her own shoe as 'revenge'. biggrin.gif I think she suddenly launched into a brief story about her hamsters as well, explaining helpfully,"I love hamsters!" Genius.
    aoife1991 wrote: »
    I'd know from walking my own pooches that they can be creeped out by things I'd be oblivious too, some of the things easily explained like a fox being nearby, others not so much! I'd be of the opinion that they'd know something was up, I've heard the stories about animals before the tsunami too, pandas screaming, goldfish jumping out of bowls, etc. Very interesting if there's a reason how they know, my pooches are afraid of their own shadows and then they growl at thin air! tongue.gif

    I had a Jack Russell for a while (a friend 'loaned' him to me to look after while he went travelling for a bit) and I'd often see him suddenly express intense interest in something in one of the rooms of the house and prick his ears. I'd look to see what it was he was looking at, but it was just a blank wall a lot of the time. I really don't know. I suppose I have little understanding of their hearing range as well, so God knows what they're picking up from afar. As for what they see in contrast to the human eye, same story.
    aoife1991 wrote: »
    My knowledge of faeries or the wee people would be very limited, I'll admit, but these will make for great reading! smile.gif The lore is really interesting, I remember my nana getting very cross with my dad when he nearly cut down one of the hawthorn trees in her garden!

    smile.gif I have to admit my knowledge of them is decidedly limited too, beyond the odd few bits and bobs I've read about them. If I remember rightly (and I could be wrong about this), placenames with 'Lis' or 'Rath' in their names are said to be hotbeds of fairy activity. Can anyone living in Lismore or Rathmines attest to this? tongue.gif


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    old ringforts where also called raths - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringfort . Personally i think people get fairy rings and raths mixed up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    this is a nice read about fairy forts etc - http://www.technogypsie.com/faerie/?p=158


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    My sister actually recorded both his talk and the White Witch's talk (probably to laugh at later!). I got her to put them on a disc for me, so, as soon as I have them (she needed to post it), I'll see if I can upload them to a file hosting site and then put the link here. :) I wanted to hear more from O'Halloran too - he was full of interesting stories, from his time serving in the Lebanon, to working as a physio for the Irish rugby team, to his strange encounters as part of his healing/shaman work.
    Oh yeah do, I'd love to hear it again! O' Halloran was full of brilliant stories, I'd love to hear more of them, I hope he does the ghost convention again! I don't know if he does much public speaking :)
    Oh yes, I remember the White Witch's story about herself and her fellow witches-in-training being in the Kerry mountains and encountering a 20-feet tall mist, I believe! Comedy gold. I think she said she told him/it off, and then she told the audience something like,"So he ran away. Well, no, he didn't run actually because he was a mist, you know. Mists can't run obviously." Cracked me up!
    I remember that now as you said it, she's a bit of a balm pot! :P I remember her saying something about finding a penny from the year WWII ended, in 1945, as the world was so full of hope that year and using it as a lucky talisman. I would have thought that millions grieving their dead would have affected the pennies luckiness but there you are! :rolleyes: My parents once went to Cobh to get a reading from her, only to be told that she couldn't give any readings as her washing machine had broken and flooded her kitchen. My father quipped 'I thought you would have known that was going to happen.' She wasn't impressed!! :D
    I can also recall something about her being bullied by a co-worker when she was a young trainee nurse, prompting her to write the co-worker's name on her own shoe as 'revenge'. :D I think she suddenly launched into a brief story about her hamsters as well, explaining helpfully,"I love hamsters!" Genius.
    Weren't we supposed to be out of the recession in March as well? :P She's certainly quite the performance artist!

    I had a Jack Russell for a while (a friend 'loaned' him to me to look after while he went travelling for a bit) and I'd often see him suddenly express intense interest in something in one of the rooms of the house and prick his ears. I'd look to see what it was he was looking at, but it was just a blank wall a lot of the time. I really don't know. I suppose I have little understanding of their hearing range as well, so God knows what they're picking up from afar. As for what they see in contrast to the human eye, same story.
    My dogs would be the same, they seem to have a superhuman sense of smell, they always know when the dinner is on, so I wouldn't at all be surprised that they can hear/see/sense much better than us mere humans can. My dogs would be used to country life and know lots of smells and scents, so I wonder sometimes are they just smelling something that they think is out of place, or something completely new to them. I often see them cock their head to one side and looking a bit baffled.. Or as baffled as cocker spaniels can!! :P


    I have to admit my knowledge of them is decidedly limited too, beyond the odd few bits and bobs I've read about them. If I remember rightly (and I could be wrong about this), placenames with 'Lis' or 'Rath' in their names are said to be hotbeds of fairy activity. Can anyone living in Lismore or Rathmines attest to this?
    Oh right cool, there's an old ringfort in my hometown, it's on some farmer's land and kind of hard to get to so I don't know of anyone who has been to it. There's two housing estates nearby called Liosbourne and Liosrua, so I'm assuming they got the name inspiration from the ringfort :) My dad said Dun is another word for ringforts, backed up by thre posted Wikipedia link above, there's a housing estate called Dun Eoin as well, which was also built ~3 miles away from another ringfort. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Laura Rua


    If you're interested in finding out more about the fairies and this type of occurence, I would definitely recommend Eddie Lenihan's book "Meeting the Other Crowd: The Fairy Stories of Hidden Ireland".

    After reading and re-reading this, I spent a fantastic few days in Co Clare with my ordnance survey maps scouting out the places where the stories were linked to. It's a fantastic book and a great starting point if you have an interest in the subject of Irish fairies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    Laura Rua wrote: »
    If you're interested in finding out more about the fairies and this type of occurence, I would definitely recommend Eddie Lenihan's book "Meeting the Other Crowd: The Fairy Stories of Hidden Ireland".

    After reading and re-reading this, I spent a fantastic few days in Co Clare with my ordnance survey maps scouting out the places where the stories were linked to. It's a fantastic book and a great starting point if you have an interest in the subject of Irish fairies.

    Oh brilliant, I'll definitely check that out, thanks! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    Here is a link (at last) to shaman/healer Paul O'Halloran's (who we were talking about earlier in the thread) talk at the Ghost Convention in Cork back in 2010: http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257679/Paul_o_Halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html :)

    BTW, you have to click on the little white box saying 'Create download link' located below the text saying 'Paul_o_halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010'. Then you wait for that to load, and download it to listen to Paul's talk (it'll eventually say 'Click here to Download'). If anyone can be bothered.

    I'll add the talk by the White Witch in a short while, should anyone be interested in that. It takes some time to upload the (mp3) files because of the length/size.

    Talk by the White Witch (the same download process as detailed above is involved): http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257709/White_Witch_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html

    Enjoy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    Here is a link (at last) to shaman/healer Paul O'Halloran's (who we were talking about earlier in the thread) talk at the Ghost Convention in Cork back in 2010: http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257679/Paul_o_Halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html :)

    BTW, you have to click on the little white box saying 'Create download link' located below the text saying 'Paul_o_halloran_talk_at_WGC_2010'. Then you wait for that to load, and download it to listen to Paul's talk (it'll eventually say 'Click here to Download'). If anyone can be bothered.

    I'll add the talk by the White Witch in a short while, should anyone be interested in that. It takes some time to upload the (mp3) files because of the length/size.

    Talk by the White Witch (the same download process as detailed above is involved): http://www.peejeshare.com/files/363257709/White_Witch_talk_at_WGC_2010.mp3.html

    Enjoy.


    This is great, thanks so much for uploading and sharing!! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Northclare


    Those fairy forts are usually built in lines.

    There's a line that crosses England,it connects ring forts castles etc.

    I wonder do those forts in Ireland connect in a line.

    Leylines I think they're called.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    there is no physical evidence whatsoever to support ley lines. the idea started in the 1920s by archaeologist Alfred Watkins who used the phrase to describe linking archaeology sites overland, but it wasnt until 1969 that a writer decided to use it in relation to spiritual and mystical theories. thats the only facts there are about leylines ....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Northclare


    Your wrong there,thats not good research.
    Try again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Sorry to disappoint you, but as I say, those are the facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Northclare


    Oh no they're not :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,662 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    whateva.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Northclare


    I'll post something up later on as I have no access to the facts I have.
    Maybe your right ill see what I have.


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    Guys, while the existence of ley lines is heavily disputed (and something I don't personally buy into), does it have anything to do with figuring out if the land you are intending on building has spirits or faeries on it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Guys, while the existence of ley lines is heavily disputed (and something I don't personally buy into), does it have anything to do with figuring out if the land you are intending on building has spirits or faeries on it?

    Tbh, I would draw a distinction between ley lines and haunted land. I always thought that ley lines tended to augment and cause different points of energy to intermingle on a particular site, leading to disrupted sleep in instances where people's houses are supposedly built on the lines. On the other hand, I think land can possibly be haunted without ley lines being present.

    I've heard that Stonehenge in the UK and the Great Pyramid in Egypt were built on ley lines, and they do tend to have a reputation as 'spiritual' places as opposed to 'haunted' places.

    Apparently lines connecting one burial site to another physically sparked the idea of ley lines that was written about by Watkins back in 1921. It was noted (and possibly not by him) that people reported seeing ghosts walking (or floating, as the case may be) along these same paths, or ley lines. That would suggest that there's a link between the dead and the lines, but it's all a bit arbitrary really. Hard to be sure..


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭aoife1991


    Tbh, I would draw a distinction between ley lines and haunted land. I always thought that ley lines tended to augment and cause different points of energy to intermingle on a particular site, leading to disrupted sleep in instances where people's houses are supposedly built on the lines. On the other hand, I think land can possibly be haunted without ley lines being present.

    I've heard that Stonehenge in the UK and the Great Pyramid in Egypt were built on ley lines, and they do tend to have a reputation as 'spiritual' places as opposed to 'haunted' places.

    Apparently lines connecting one burial site to another physically sparked the idea of ley lines that was written about by Watkins back in 1921. It was noted (and possibly not by him) that people reported seeing ghosts walking (or floating, as the case may be) along these same paths, or ley lines. That would suggest that there's a link between the dead and the lines, but it's all a bit arbitrary really. Hard to be sure..


    Yeah I'd be in agreement there. My granda's family and my mum do a bit of dowsing and they have their doubts about the existence of ley lines. I've read a bit about them but I've never read two 'experts' having the same opinion on where the lines are! :confused: I'd love to see a map of the world, particularly Ireland, to see where they believe the lines to be. This thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055066020 didn't come up with much concerning ley lines. Until I can see a few maps that agree with each other, I'll stay a bit skeptical about them. :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    I certainly wouldn't build on a field that was known as a place that cattle and sheep refused to graze: they might, for instance, have a natural aversion to radon.

    As for lone hawthorns, the hungry grass, ring forts, etc - oh yes, the country is awash with stories about them; you'll hear them even in the most sophisticated city places.

    Always reminds me of the old lady asked by a radio interviewer many years ago "Do you believe in the 'good people'?"

    "God no, not at all," she said, and then "But they're there, you know, whether you believe in them or not."


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭MrMojoRisin


    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Oh yeah do, I'd love to hear it again! O' Halloran was full of brilliant stories, I'd love to hear more of them, I hope he does the ghost convention again! I don't know if he does much public speaking :)

    Just to reply to your post from before, Aoife. AFAIK, the only public speaking Paul O'Halloran seems to do is when he rarely speaks on the radio (he was on with Neil Prendeville on 96fm a few times), or when he conducts workshops (if you'd call that public speaking). He can certainly articulate himself well anyway. Good storyteller.
    aoife1991 wrote: »
    I remember that now as you said it, she's a bit of a balm pot! :P I remember her saying something about finding a penny from the year WWII ended, in 1945, as the world was so full of hope that year and using it as a lucky talisman. I would have thought that millions grieving their dead would have affected the pennies luckiness but there you are! :rolleyes:

    Yeah, I remember her mentioning that in her speech before (and, again in the audio clip in the link I posted above - for those who haven't heard it), and I thought the exact same thing at the time. I can't, for the life of me, understand why a penny from that year, of all years, would be imbibed with so much hope and luck. It's a pity she didn't bother to explain why she thought that.

    I think she has a tendency to state something as a fact and, because she is probably so clued-up herself on why it apparently is a fact, or whatever, she overlooks that others are probably completely clueless about it.

    Someone forwarded a link to me earlier of the following video of her speaking about witchcraft in 2010 :D:



    aoife1991 wrote: »
    My parents once went to Cobh to get a reading from her, only to be told that she couldn't give any readings as her washing machine had broken and flooded her kitchen. My father quipped 'I thought you would have known that was going to happen.' She wasn't impressed!! :D

    That is a classic. :D All the scrying using her crystal ball didn't reveal an image of a banjaxed washing machine and a flooded kitchen, ha, ha.
    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Weren't we supposed to be out of the recession in March as well? :P She's certainly quite the performance artist!

    That's right - I forgot about that. :rolleyes: Realistically, I don't think we'll be out of the recession for at least another 15 years. Unless a miracle happens..

    She did predict oil being found off the coast of Cork (can't recall the date, if any, that she gave), and there was a fair bit of oil found there back in March or early April, if I remember rightly. White Witch - une point. :)

    aoife1991 wrote: »
    My dogs would be the same, they seem to have a superhuman sense of smell, they always know when the dinner is on, so I wouldn't at all be surprised that they can hear/see/sense much better than us mere humans can. My dogs would be used to country life and know lots of smells and scents, so I wonder sometimes are they just smelling something that they think is out of place, or something completely new to them. I often see them cock their head to one side and looking a bit baffled.. Or as baffled as cocker spaniels can!! :P

    I would imagine that their sense of smell is more developed and wide-ranging than that of humans, which might explain why they react so starkly to things that we are unable to detect as acutely as they can.

    aoife1991 wrote: »
    Oh right cool, there's an old ringfort in my hometown, it's on some farmer's land and kind of hard to get to so I don't know of anyone who has been to it. There's two housing estates nearby called Liosbourne and Liosrua, so I'm assuming they got the name inspiration from the ringfort :) My dad said Dun is another word for ringforts, backed up by thre posted Wikipedia link above, there's a housing estate called Dun Eoin as well, which was also built ~3 miles away from another ringfort. :)

    Tradition holds that placenames like that are associated with ringforts. 'Lios' has been anglicised in many areas' names in more recent times - such as Lisdoonvarna or Lismore. Same thing with rath (with a fada over the a) - now Rathmines, Rathdrum, etc., minus the fada. Apparently 'lios' was the enclosed living area of the fairies. Both names - Lios and Rath - would describe forts with predominantly earth banks forming the enclosure.

    As for 'Dun' - traditionally, any place beginning with that name referred to a stone-built, defensive structure of some kind. So again, linking in with forts.

    You were sort of wondering initially whether or not land that had fairies inhabiting it could have cattle grazing on it. Well, apparently, according to some, fairy forts and ringforts are considered to be interchangeable names for the same thing, and, interestingly, ringforts were built, and lived in, by cattle farmers during the Middle Ages.

    Also, it's been found that ringforts were never constructed anywhere where the land was considered unsuitable for farming to start with. So, there may be a connection there somewhere.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭face1990


    maccored wrote: »
    Sorry to disappoint you, but as I say, those are the facts.
    Northclare wrote: »
    Oh no they're not :)
    maccored wrote: »
    whateva.

    Some top-notch debating there lads!

    QI did a little segment on ley lines, and illustrated quite nicely how you can make patterns out of anything if you're selective enough about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdGyLs5JS1g&feature=player_detailpage#t=352s


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