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Why are people so ashamed of drinking in Ireland? MOD WARNING POST 1

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭actuallylike


    grenache wrote: »
    I would guess they have self repsect, and look for repsect from others. As a fellow alcohol trade employee, my guess is that customers don't want to be seen conciously carrying a bottle of alcohol around with them, as they and many others (rightfully) associate it with whinos, alcholics and bingers. Whinos, alcholics and bingers are and will never be a good thing. It just shows a bit of class to cover it up.

    Wow, so you think it is shameful to drink? People should have some self respect? People who drink are rightfully associated with winos? It shows a bit of class to cover up your drinking? I think you're part of the problem here. You clearly see only one reason to drink and that is to get drunk, and not just drunk, embarrassingly drunk. That's quite sad to be honest, tarring all alcohol lovers as alcoholics. This is exactly what I was talking about, I want to buy a nice beer to enjoy the taste, or maybe a nice wine to share amongst friends and you will see me and judge me to be something I'm not. I just hope that societies view (which seems to be quite similar to your own) is taking a turn for the better and to be more acceptant and less judging.

    The thread other than that seems to have gone a bit OT with comparisons to other countries regarding alcohol consumed. It's about the Irish shame attached to drinking. Is the shame and negative judgement (occasionally blind judgement towards someone you don't know) perhaps responsible for the higher intake of alcohol amongst us? By keeping it behind closed doors has it in fact made the consumption of alcohol in Ireland excessive? It was mentioned that European countries with less of a problem have their young experience alcohol at an early age, is this a factor? If we didn't hide it away, would there be more of an understanding of it and thus maybe a love and appreciation of it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,769 ✭✭✭✭The Hill Billy


    Mod warning added to Post 1.

    tHB


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I was in Berlin last week.

    You do see people walking out of shops at 9am with bottles of beer in their hands. Not sure if it was open.

    At night, you do see young people on the streets / trams / trains with 33cl and 50cl bottles, happily swigging away. Though posters on the transit vehicles say it's verboten.

    It does seem a more relaxed / casual attitude to beer.

    In a Netto supermarket, 50cl bottles of beer were mostly less than a euro, as low as 25c.

    70cl of vodka was as low as 4.99.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I was in a basic burger takeaway with a few seat outside in Berlin.

    The drinks offer was self-service - after you ordered food at the counter, you walked to a fridge, took out a bottle of beer, opened it yourself, and sat down with it.

    No questions asked.

    It seemed that you were free to walk back to the fridge, and get more beer, which I did.

    Nobody recorded this, except that the bottles would be on your table.

    Unreal compared to here, so trusting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,898 ✭✭✭squonk


    Geuze wrote: »
    I was in a basic burger takeaway with a few seat outside in Berlin.

    The drinks offer was self-service - after you ordered food at the counter, you walked to a fridge, took out a bottle of beer, opened it yourself, and sat down with it.

    No questions asked.

    It seemed that you were free to walk back to the fridge, and get more beer, which I did.

    Nobody recorded this, except that the bottles would be on your table.

    Unreal compared to here, so trusting.

    In fairness they're great! I laughed reading your post. Here the fridge would be ransacked in minutes! It reminded me of arriving off a train in Vienna one Sunday morning to see newspapers hanging on bags from lamposts. You deposited your money and took a paper.... imagine how badly that system would fare here!

    I think we have somewhat of a fascination with drink in this country. It's stigmatised because there's a few members of every family almost who are alcoholics. I think the fact that abuse of alcohol is so prevalent that it does tar those who enjoy their drinks in the eyes of many.

    As was said, a lot of the problem is being let lose on the pub at the age of 18, though it appears many are starting to drink before then nowadays. I was a late drinker myself and din't get overly into it. Mind you, I had my mad nights out and severe hangovers but nowadays I like quality rather than quantity. A good bottle of beer at home is far preferable to downing pints of dishwater down at the local pub listening to idiots roaring at each other after binging. I don't know whether we as a nation were always like that. Certainly in the past money just wasn't there for people to hit the pub whenever they liked. Someone will have to look into that one if they have access to figures.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭eaglebhoy


    The original question here is an interesting one, I do feel that the Irish psyche tows a fine line, us Irish are almost as ashamed to be seen as someone who doesn't drink as we are to be seen as a dipso/alco !

    Anyone Irish who has gone out with their mates swearing to all that is holy that they aren't drinking tonight for whatever reason (match/weight loss/injury/illness) has usually succumbed in the end due to peer ridicule and yes I do think that there are also plenty of us who worry about how our friends/family percieve our drinking level/frequency !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭Brokentime


    I was over in Berlin a few months ago and their attitude amazed me. People wandering the streets with a beer in their hand without a care in the world. Saw one guy walk into the bar we were in with beer in hand, chat to the barmen, take his jacket off and start his shift! There’s no judgement there at all, nothing to judge.

    I've lived in Shanghai, China, for over 2 years now. Used to live in Dublin. Over here, you can drink in public, and a lot of people do. Office workers and building workers will sit side-by-side in a park at lunchtime and have some beer. Go out for dinner, and most people, if not everyone, will have something to drink. Shops are open 24 hours and you can buy a drink if you want, and nobody will bat an eye at you. Their strongest drink over here, called bai jiu (pronounced: bye joe) can be up to 67% and you can buy it no questions asked.

    A lot of the bars are open 24 hours, too, and yet you don't see people falling around the place drunk. Over here, people have a level of self-respect and 'face' so they control their actions. Drinking is not seen as a deviant or cool thing to do; it's just a normal part of life.

    When I left Ireland, you were stared at if you had a beer in your hand anywhere outside a bar or restaurant. Happy hours were outlawed. Our once-happy culture of 'having a few scoops' was gone without a trace. You'd almost have to sneak into a bar sometimes, for fear of being judged.

    Happier where I am now. Ireland has a lot of work to do to make it more user-friendly for anyone who likes a drink every now and then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,450 ✭✭✭actuallylike


    Brokentime wrote: »
    I've lived in Shanghai, China, for over 2 years now. Used to live in Dublin. Over here, you can drink in public, and a lot of people do. Office workers and building workers will sit side-by-side in a park at lunchtime and have some beer. Go out for dinner, and most people, if not everyone, will have something to drink. Shops are open 24 hours and you can buy a drink if you want, and nobody will bat an eye at you. Their strongest drink over here, called bai jiu (pronounced: bye joe) can be up to 67% and you can buy it no questions asked.

    A lot of the bars are open 24 hours, too, and yet you don't see people falling around the place drunk. Over here, people have a level of self-respect and 'face' so they control their actions. Drinking is not seen as a deviant or cool thing to do; it's just a normal part of life.

    When I left Ireland, you were stared at if you had a beer in your hand anywhere outside a bar or restaurant. Happy hours were outlawed. Our once-happy culture of 'having a few scoops' was gone without a trace. You'd almost have to sneak into a bar sometimes, for fear of being judged.

    Happier where I am now. Ireland has a lot of work to do to make it more user-friendly for anyone who likes a drink every now and then.

    Yeah, it's a real catch-22 situation. If laws are relaxed you'll get people saying 'sure we're all drunks, it'll be a disaster', but I'm positive this attitude is because of the strict laws in the first place. Roll on minimum price alcohol now :(.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭Brokentime


    Yeah, it's a real catch-22 situation. If laws are relaxed you'll get people saying 'sure we're all drunks, it'll be a disaster', but I'm positive this attitude is because of the strict laws in the first place. Roll on minimum price alcohol now :(.

    The sad truth as I see it now is that if we had cut price booze, happy hours, and bars open 24 hours a day, Ireland would simply sink without a trace. Over here, when you first experience this freedom, you go a bit loopy. But then after a few weeks you mellow out and appreciate the freedoms more. But the entire country, especially in the slightly fractured and schizophrenic state it's in now, would fall apart. And it wouldn't be the quote unquote 'drinkers' who'd fall; it'd be the rest of them


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Wow, so you think it is shameful to drink? People should have some self respect? People who drink are rightfully associated with winos?
    Firstly, stop misquoting me - i never said the highlighted bit. What i did say was people who carry drink around openly are likened to whinos. And yes, i think it's better to cover it up when walking down the street. Nothing wrong with that. There is a stigma attached to it. Call it Catholic guilt or whatever you like to call it. I didn't create it. I just know that given the choice i would put my alcohol in a bag, rather than just walk down the street with it showing. Funnily i've no problem with it being on show at home, i don't believe in locking it away from teens. Rather than, i believe they should be drip fed it from the age of 13/14 so that by the time they are 18, they'll have developed some respect for it.
    It shows a bit of class to cover up your drinking? I think you're part of the problem here. You clearly see only one reason to drink and that is to get drunk, and not just drunk, embarrassingly drunk. That's quite sad to be honest, tarring all alcohol lovers as alcoholics.
    No i don't see only "one reason to drink", don't put words in my mouth. I believe the majority of people go out to enjoy themselves rather than to get drunk. But unfortunately, there is quite a sizeable minority in this country who feel the need to get wasted every weekend and cause trouble. Try walking down the streets of Dublin, Cork, Galway or Limerick on a Saturday night. It is quite intimidating if you're a sober person. I see fights every weekend. I go to Italy and France every year - i never see anything there like i do in Irish cities and towns.
    This is exactly what I was talking about, I want to buy a nice beer to enjoy the taste, or maybe a nice wine to share amongst friends and you will see me and judge me to be something I'm not. I just hope that societies view (which seems to be quite similar to your own) is taking a turn for the better and to be more acceptant and less judging.
    Unfortunately there are enough people who are willing to take the pi$$ when it comes to alcohol abuse. My cousin works in A&E department in Limeick and every Saturday night, 90% of cases are alcohol related. The amount of $hit she has to endure is nothing short of a disgrace. She's been spat on, urinated on and attacked by individuals off their heads on drink/drugs. All because our nice government is in bed with the drinks industry, cosying up to it, instead of efficient regulating of it.
    The thread other than that seems to have gone a bit OT with comparisons to other countries regarding alcohol consumed. It's about the Irish shame attached to drinking. Is the shame and negative judgement (occasionally blind judgement towards someone you don't know) perhaps responsible for the higher intake of alcohol amongst us? By keeping it behind closed doors has it in fact made the consumption of alcohol in Ireland excessive? It was mentioned that European countries with less of a problem have their young experience alcohol at an early age, is this a factor? If we didn't hide it away, would there be more of an understanding of it and thus maybe a love and appreciation of it?
    I 100% agree with you here. On the continent, especially in Spain, France and Italy, alcohol is an integral part of the dinner table, whether it be a glass of wine with lunch, a liquor to help digest the meal afterwards or a beer to have with a light snack. It's not hidden like here, and as i've mentioned above, adolescents are give a glass of wine with their meal, to develop a tolerance and respect for alcohol.

    I think a lot if comes down to us Irish actually being quite shy and not all that confident in every day situations. Whether this is a specific nationalistic trait or is related to the fact we're a relatively young country, i do not yet know. What i do know is that our need for alcohol is far greater than it is in most European countries. To give us Dutch courage, things that French or Italians have in spades when sober. I'm going to dismiss the weather factor as the Scandinavian climate is not much better, yet they don't have nearly as bad endemic alcohol-related problems.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 787 ✭✭✭babi-hrse


    Having a beer in public is tolerated by many gardai too, and rightly so. I would think it ridiculous to arrest a woman with her family out having a picnic on the beach and enjoying a glass of wine. Or arresting a man in his 50's strolling to the pub having his first can.[/QUOTE]

    i've been questioned at roadsides by gardai asking me what i thought i was doing and instructed to empty the can immediatly. i drink what remains in the can and show them it's empty and we leave it at that it's not arrestable but they do pull over and have words out their squad car window. as for shame. i have no issues with walking down the street with 2 cans one in the coat pocket and one in my hand. i keep to myself (don't shout across the road to talk to other people or the like) and say hello to every neighbour i pass. im a young lad and it's saturday night, i work late and ill be damned if im going to get to the pub at 11pm and have 1 drink before everyone declares we're moving to a nightclub where the drink is piss and can cost 6 euros a pint. this saves money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭nice_very


    *sigh* personally I dont give a fcuk who sees me in a pub or coming back from the offie, and anyone who does care what others think of them needs some help.

    I hate having to go home at 11.30pm on a sunday (for example) because someone decided that is the time I (we) must leave the pub, been in manys the "lock in" in my time, and the general attitude is - FCUK the law.. hence my point - we drink because we are told not to, its all reverse psychology


  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Berwick


    1pm in Holland (years back) friends and I were having a drink and along came our swedish neighbour. Hello, whats the occasion? No occasion. Whos birthday is it? no ones birthday? Is it a special day back in Ireland? No.

    Than why are you drinking at 1 o clock in the day? We are just having a drink. Our neighbour thought we were pulling his leg. After explaining to him that over in Ireland we drink for no reason and every reason, he just walked away shaking his head in disbelief. He could not grasp the concept that people would put alcohol into their bodys for no reason.

    Overseas we are looked on as stupid drunkards.


    Sweden is not the whole overseas world.

    Here in Germany it is perfectly normal to drink wine or beer at the time mentioned.

    As it is in most countries that I know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,309 ✭✭✭T-K-O


    OP

    Not my friends. Why do Irish people keep putting ourselves down like this ... That Ireland (in my world) does not exist. This is 2012 not 1980 Ireland has moved on but some people love to talk the country and themselves down..


This discussion has been closed.
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