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Eugene Moloney two suspects: didnt know each other

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    #32
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    The annabels lad wasn't murdered. Same with Eugene Moloney.

    Tell that to their familes


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    #33
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    it's actually scary that the attack could be that random. manys a time I've walked down Camden St/Wexford St to go get my nitelink home.


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    #34
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    davet82 wrote: »
    Tell that to their familes


    Chances are I won't ever meet them so that's unlikely.


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    #35
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Chances are I won't ever meet them so that's unlikely.

    thankfully


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    #36
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,056 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Worked with Eugene until very recently - extremely saddened by his death. He was a genuinely nice and decent man - very friendly, chatty and charismatic. He will be missed.


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    #37
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    davet82 wrote: »
    Tell that to their familes

    Murder is premeditated, neither of these cases were that.


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    #38
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    Murder is premeditated, neither of these cases were that.

    ok if you want to be technical about yes they were 'manslaughtered' but if was my son/brother/father beaten to death or attacked for no good reason, it would feel like murder to me


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    #39
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    davet82 wrote: »
    ok if you want to be technical about yes they were 'manslaughtered' but if was my son/brother/father beaten to death or attacked for no good reason, it would feel like murder to me

    Fair enough.


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    #40
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,401 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    Murder is premeditated, neither of these cases were that.
    In my opinion any time you lift a hand/foot against someone (particularly unprovoked), you do so with the intent to harm them. If your actions lead directly to someone elses' death in a situation such as this there should only be one sentence.


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    #41
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    a lot of it is down to drink and drugs and late opening pub hours,there shouldnt be so much drink so available,i think they need to limit the pub hours..


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    #42
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    kippy wrote: »
    In my opinion any time you lift a hand/foot against someone (particularly unprovoked), you do so with the intent to harm them. If your actions lead directly to someone elses' death in a situation such as this there should only be one sentence.



    So punching someone should attempted murder?


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    #43
    Turpentine
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Turpentine


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    a lot of it is down to drink and drugs and late opening pub hours,there shouldnt be so much drink so available,i think they need to limit the pub hours..

    They already limit the pub hours, that's part of the problem. That's why everyone spills out onto the streets at the same time, drunk out of their heads after rushing a few drinks down at last orders.


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    #44
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,401 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    So punching someone should attempted murder?

    Depending on the circumstances, yes.
    In these circumstances two people ganged up on one man, unprovoked and literally left him for dead.


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    #45
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    kippy wrote: »
    Depending on the circumstances, yes.
    In these circumstances two people ganged up on one man, unprovoked and literally left him for dead.


    No they didn't.


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    #46
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    kippy wrote: »
    In my opinion any time you lift a hand/foot against someone (particularly unprovoked), you do so with the intent to harm them. If your actions lead directly to someone elses' death in a situation such as this there should only be one sentence.

    I get what you're saying alright but the chasm between setting out to end someone and someone accidentally dying from a box to the head is vast.

    By all means throw the book at the little toerag who did it but I sincerely doubt he had any intention of ending the guys life. There's no winner in this case anyway, very sad.


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    #47
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,401 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    No they didn't.

    Sorry, I must have the facts of the story wrong.


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    #48
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    kippy wrote: »
    Sorry, I must have the facts of the story wrong.


    No problem.


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    #49
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    a lot of it is down to drink and drugs and late opening pub hours,there shouldnt be so much drink so available,i think they need to limit the pub hours..

    Why? Because a tiny percentage of us are dickheads that automatically means the majority should be treated as such?

    As has been pointed out to you already, pubs closing early is far more the cause of all this **** than the solution.


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    #50
    kippy
    Registered Users Posts: 18,401 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    I get what you're saying alright but the chasm between setting out to end someone and someone accidentally dying from a box to the head is vast.

    By all means throw the book at the little toerag who did it but I sincerely doubt he had any intention of ending the guys life. There's no winner in this case anyway, very sad.
    I get that, however the very fact that a punch (or multiple punches) to the head can result in death either directly or indirectly is a known fact, and in my opinion this is enough to make the crime murder......
    Yeah, it might seem overly harsh but the sentences served for manslaughter in this country do nothing to make up for the loss of life that has effected so many and cheapens life.


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    #51
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,508 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    CucaFace wrote: »
    He wasn't a young man.

    It was a man in 50's heading home after a night out if I'm not mis-taken.

    Ah ha. I'm in my 50's and very young. I feel even younger.


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    #52
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Ah ha. I'm in my 50's and very young. I feel even younger.

    Do other people tell you you feel younger, or is it when you touch yourself you feel like your feeling up a young man?


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    #53
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,508 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Napper Hawkins wrote: »
    Anyone who has been on Camden st of a weekend knows what the place is like after midnight, it's mental.

    For the first time in years, I found myself walking along there a few weeks ago with sober eyes and I was surprised at how disgusted I was with the general carry on.

    Kids everywhere, most of them barely 18, if even, out of their minds pissed, falling all over the place, fights breaking out all over the road. Not that this was strange to me, I used to be one of them. But what I did find utterly confusing and slightly depressing was that even though there were literally hundreds of drunk teenage morons everywhere you looked, I couldn't see a single guard. Not one. Why?

    Tourists must go home with a seriously ****ed up image of Ireland after seeing this craic.

    Horrible sad story about your man, I hope his family are alright because that's a rough way to go. RIP

    To a degree you are right. BUT I was collecting my daughter from a night out a few months ago and there was mayhem on the streets and much of it aimed at the Gardai who were there. Sometimes they are like magnets to drunken yobs. Now if the Gardai were to wait outside certain establishments and prosecute the owners for the state of the punters leaving then it might have more effect on public order. You should not continue to ply drink to an already drunk individual.


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    #54
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    kippy wrote: »
    I get that, however the very fact that a punch (or multiple punches) to the head can result in death either directly or indirectly is a known fact, and in my opinion this is enough to make the crime murder......
    Yeah, it might seem overly harsh but the sentences served for manslaughter in this country do nothing to make up for the loss of life that has effected so many and cheapens life.

    I could not agree more.


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    #55
    Napper Hawkins
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭Napper Hawkins


    tayto lover wrote: »
    To a degree you are right. BUT I was collecting my daughter from a night out a few months ago and there was mayhem on the streets and much of it aimed at the Gardai who were there. Sometimes they are like magnets to drunken yobs. Now if the Gardai were to wait outside certain establishments and prosecute the owners for the state of the punters leaving then it might have more effect on public order. You should not continue to ply drink to an already drunk individual.

    Ah yeah sure I've been there enough times to witness that myself.

    It was just that particular night, in the short space of time it took to walk the length of the street all I saw was chaos and nobody available to do a damn thing about it. Maybe the guards were off somewhere else dealing with something else but that's just how I saw it. I doubt I'm alone in wondering why the police presence seems to be so minimal on occasion on nights where the place really should be crawling with them.


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    #56
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,508 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    Do other people tell you you feel younger, or is it when you touch yourself you feel like your feeling up a young man?

    You're living up to your name now.


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    #57
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Update: a 21-year-old trainee mechanic has appeared in court and was charged with the manslaughter of Mr. Moloney. He did not plead. The other person who was at the scene has been released without charge.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/man-21-charged-with-killing-former-irish-independent-journalist-eugene-maloney-3150768.html


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    #58
    Dr.Strange
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 181 ✭✭Dr.Strange


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You're living up to your name now.

    Strange Physical anomilies interest like as you describe intrig me.


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    #59
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Update: a 21-year-old trainee mechanic has appeared in court and was charged with the manslaughter of Mr. Moloney. He did not plead. The other person who was at the scene has been released without charge.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/man-21-charged-with-killing-former-irish-independent-journalist-eugene-maloney-3150768.html



    Apparently the other guy had nothing to do with the assault but he robbed the victim after he was punched.


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    #60
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,822 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Not much point debating the nuances of historical cases, or even the apparent nature of Mr Moloney's attack, RIP

    The crux of it is the question, are random acts of aggressive, extreme or unprovoked violence are the rise? We can probably all agree thats a Yes

    Why are they on the rise? We can probably all agree its a combination of alcohol consumption / drug use, lack of moral compass whether ingrained or adopted, the self fulfilling prophecy (its so prevalent and visible it becomes the 'everyone else is doing it so why cant I'), and the lack of deterrent through insufficient detection and unsatisfactory sentences.

    What to do about it? Policing is a major issue. Theres no magic bullet with the lack of resources but hopefully the new rostering for the Guards might concentrate on the troublespots and times.

    The major thing is sentencing. Ill probably get plenty of stick for this but Im very old fashioned when it comes to this and I have no time for the liberal argument when it comes to punishing aggravated crime. I firmly believe the Courts are living on a different planet, and the amount of mitigation in both civil and criminal cases in Ireland is a betrayal of the people and their safety. Im aware of the basis of Common Law and the Irish system but its just not delivering what people expect and I think the issue of mandatory sentencing will have to be taken up by the legislature and imposed on the Courts. Also the parameters of manslaughter v murder badly need to be addressed to reflect modern society. A sliding scale of murder as in other jurisdictions would be a start

    The way I see it -

    'My dad didnt love me your honour' - Tough s**t, you killed a person in a random assault, youre getting 12 years to think about it

    'Im an addict your honour' - Tough s**t, you killed a person in a random assault, youre getting 12 years to get clean

    'Ive never been in a days trouble before your honour' - Tough s**t, you killed a person in a random assault, youre getting 12 years to stay out of any more trouble

    'I live at the side of the road and I cant read or write' - Tough s**t, you killed a man in a random assault, youre getting 12 years of 4 walls and literacy classes

    'My son was taunted by the lad from the other school, he has important exams coming up' - Tough s**t, he killed a man in a random assault, he's getting 12 years to think about a new career path


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    #61
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,508 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Dr.Strange wrote: »
    Strange Physical anomilies interest like as you describe intrig me.

    I'm lamb dressed up as mutton :)


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