Would you be put off by this.

If you were in your forties and you met a man also single and after a few dates it emerged that he was still renting and had never owned a house or apartment would that bother you? I know someone who has met a nice guy that she says is nice and she is a bit put off by this.

When I started to get out and about after my first marriage ended I had a few relationships and all the men had their own own home so I don't know if I would be put off by it, but thinking about it and if I am honest I would be a bit put off.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Better that than big debts and/or negative equity. Other countries aren't as obsessive about owning property and they get on just fine. I don't see why it would be a big issue.

Ickle Magoo

Would I be put off that a prospective partner hasn't the millstone of negative equity around their necks? No - don't think that would bother me.

Seriously tho - as long as they aren't still living at home with mammy then I don't think it would bother me...there could be all kind of reasons for not owning property ie having lived abroad, travelling, moved cities, excellent foresight, etc, etc.

You must be joking, what's the obsession with ownership? You do realise countless people are signed up to mortgages they can barely afford? That what you'd prefer?

I've heard it all now

awec

This post has been deleted.

Mat the trasher

mariaalice wrote: »

If you were in your forties and you met a man also single and after a few dates it emerged that he was still renting and had never owned a house or apartment would that bother you? I know someone who has met a nice guy that she says is nice and she is a bit put off by this.

When I started to get out and about after my first marriage ended I had a few relationships and all the men had their own own home so I don't know if I would be put off by it, but thinking about it and if I am honest I would be a bit put off.

Does your friend have her own home, or is it the banks?

She brought a house in her late twenties and is very independent I think its that it fact that he is in his forties is the crux of the matter.

I work with some one who met a guy who was 38 and was basically had nothing and had to sell his car to buy the engagement ring, she had a house and a good life. Her parents were very concerned and said something, her attitude was they were her parents and were just worried about her.

panda100

She's on to a winner there. Smart people rent!

My parents are always on to me to buy a house. I just don't see the point. I don't know where I will be in five years time, and really don't want to be shackled to a massive mortgage for the rest of my life.

sambuka41

I got so caught up in the whole buy a house craze in my mid twenties, luckily I was broke, I must have been the only person who the banks wouldn't give a mortgage to!!! Thankfully I'm off to Canada next year for a better life, but I can do that because I am renting and have no massive debt.

OP your friend's guy is in a much better position to have comfortable life because of his choices. Seriously it would be much worse if he had a house, if they got serious she would be hooked into paying his debt.

Also I love it in work when people start discussing house maintenance stuff, like a few months ago my washing machine broke, straight away people were telling me where I could get a good deal on a new machine, I laughed, was like sure I'll let the landlord know, me I don't have to pay for anything!!! :p So I didn't have to scrimp that week, the expense wasn't mine.

I think if it was me and it was serious relationship, what would be important would be that he wasn't still living hand to month, had savings and was living some sort of organized life...its wouldn't be just about having a house.

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

You must be joking, what's the obsession with ownership? You do realise countless people are signed up to mortgages they can barely afford? That what you'd prefer?

I've heard it all now

+1

There is such an obsession with owning houses in Ireland, it's mad. In many European countries families rent houses for life. Many people have mortgages for yearrrrs, so the bank own the house really..not them!

It would put me off if someone was living at home with their parents at that age, though.

Galwayguy35

panda100 wrote: »

She's on to a winner there. Smart people rent!

My parents are always on to me to buy a house. I just don't see the point. I don't know where I will be in five years time, and really don't want to be shackled to a massive mortgage for the rest of my life.

Why would you have to get a massive mortgage?
House prices are low, I got a reasonable mortgage and the money I'm paying is on my own house, not a landlords which is what you pay when you rent, and you will never own it.

sambuka41

mariaalice wrote: »

I think if it was me and it was serious relationship, what would be important would be that he wasn't still living month to month and had savings and was living some sort of organized life...its wouldn't be just about having a house.

But in this day and age, recession and all, he's far more likely to be able to save if he is renting rather than paying a huge mortgage that is covering his negative equity.

Its pretty old fashioned view that someone who is renting is not stable, or mature, and its the type of thinking that got so many people into the mess they are in now.

panda100

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Why would you have to get a massive mortgage?
House prices are low, I got a reasonable mortgage and the money I'm paying is on my own house, not a landlords which is what you pay when you rent, and you will never own it.

Mortgage repayments no matter how reasonable would still cost a lot more than rent, even in Dublin where rent is ridiculously expensive.
Why does it matter if you own the house you're living in?

Galwayguy35

panda100 wrote: »

Mortgage repayments no matter how reasonable would still cost a lot more than rent, even in Dublin where rent is ridiculously expensive.
Why does it matter if you own the house you're living in?

It's just a personal view. I see renting as paying off someone elses property. I was lucky in that I had an acre of ground to build on and I know I'll be living here for good so it made sense for me to build.
I agree with you about house prices in the cities being so expensive.

Kiera

panda100 wrote: »

Mortgage repayments no matter how reasonable would still cost a lot more than rent, even in Dublin where rent is ridiculously expensive.
Why does it matter if you own the house you're living in?

Not true. My mortgage is €200+ cheaper than it is to rent the same property in my estate.

Ambersky

Hate to bring this matter up but I will just gently try to ask
how does the civil partnership act effect the issue of possible co habitation later down the line perhaps and the issue of property ownership. :eek:

The Big Red Button

I would be far more put off if I met a man who did own a house! I would hate the idea of being so tied down to a certain place.

Granted, I'm only in my twenties now. But, if I was in my forties, I'd imagine that I wouldn't feel much different. Like, if things got serious and you wanted to move in together, I wouldn't like the idea of having to move into "his" house - I would be far happier to rent a place together, that's equally both of ours.

Obviously I'm not saying I'd ever refuse to date someone with property or other baggage. But I certainly wouldn't see it as a positive thing, that would attract me to a person.

Now, if a guy was still living at home with his parents, that would be a complete turn-off for me.

mariaalice wrote: »

I work with some one who met a guy who was 38 and was basically had nothing and had to sell his car to buy the engagement ring, she had a house and a good life. Her parents were very concerned and said something, her attitude was they were her parents and were just worried about her.

Firstly, if a guy was 38, I'd expect him to have a bit saved up. Obviously that totally depends on his circumstances, but say if he'd worked in a decent job all of his adult life, you'd hope he'd have been putting a little bit aside.

Secondly, wtf?! He was a feckin eejit to have sold his car for a piece of jewellery. If I was that girl, I'd be disgusted, I probably wouldn't even accept the ring! Not that I have any intentions of ever getting engaged (again ), but anyways.

krudler

Who cares? Irish peoples obession with owning houses borders on the ridiculous, its why this country is fcuked. the thoughts of paying to be stuck living in the same apartment or house for 20+ years freaks me out.

christmas2012

as long as he doesnt spend it all down the pub or the betting shop i dont see what the problem is..

Merkin

If it was a toss up between someone working hard and renting a property or someone up to their proverbials in negative equity then there's no contest really is there? A swish car and a desirable property might seem desirable until your pal realises there's a repossession order on both....

Cicero

I think this thread is getting caught up in the whole concept of house ownership which is a little away from the point I think you're getting to OP.

House ownership in itself- or lack of it- is not necessarily a concern. But you need to set it in context of all the other things he has done/achieved so far in his life.

Is he working? Does he travel? Does he have a bad credit rating? Is it a conscious decision of his or one brought about through necessity of some kind?

The reasons why he doesn't currently own a home could be numerous. There is no real point to the question unless it can be set in some further context IMO.

Ambersky

Sigh! some heterosexuals dont seem to have realized that this applies to them too. How it applies exactly in the case the OP mentioned Im not sure but I would have expected it to come up in the first few posts.
Don't want to be overly alarming but gently mentioning it doesn't seem to work.

The Civil Partnership Act 2010, also known as the Cohabitants Act, which came into force last year, raises more questions than it answers, said Dublin-based solicitor Anthony Joyce.

He believes that the Act opens the way for non-married former partners who can prove long-term dependence to claim against their ex.

"It's all about proving dependency. If a girl bought a house and her 'deadbeat' boyfriend lived there for five years without working and she paid the bills, then it's possible that if they split up he could make a case for being a dependent and make a claim on her income or property

http://www.mcsolicitors.ie/mcsolicitors
/main/Press_Indo_11Mar12.htm
http://www.ohod.ie/index.php/property-conveyancing/property-law-news/76-property-ownership-and-the-civil-partnership-act

Piste

This is only relevant if it's a matter of dependence, the man and woman the OP has referenced isn't even a couple and there's no hint of a suggestion that if they were that the woman would be dependent on the man, so you're jumping the gun a bit there.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

She brought a house in her late twenties and is very independent I think its that it fact that he is in his forties is the crux of the matter.

I work with some one who met a guy who was 38 and was basically had nothing and had to sell his car to buy the engagement ring, she had a house and a good life. Her parents were very concerned and said something, her attitude was they were her parents and were just worried about her.

He sold his car to buy a ring?! And she let him? Him stupid and her a witch

Fizzlesque

Wouldn't bother me at all. I have a mortgage, and was lucky to be able to pay a large chunk upfront, so I'm not in negative equity, and my monthly repayments are only a tiny bit higher than the rent I was paying before I bought (I know buying V renting isn't the thread topic, but it has become a sub topic) so I'm completely happy with my house but it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to start a relationship with a man who doesn't own his own house.

I can't even say it would be far down the list of things I'd consider important because it wouldn't even make it onto my 'list' of things I deem important when it comes to deciding whether or not to pursue a relationship with someone.

When I bought my house, my stepmother constantly used say to me "don't let any man take your house from you" --- "don't put any man's name on the deeds" etc, but she has a bad attitude when it comes to men.

A friend of mine has a similar attitude to your friend. She only wanted to meet a man who had his own house, because she had her own house and thought the power balance would be all wrong. I disagreed with her when she said that to me, and I disagree with your friend too.

By the way, I'm 43.

Ambersky

Piste the Op has said to clarify the position of her friend.

She brought a house in her late twenties and is very independent I think its that it fact that he is in his forties is the crux of the matter.

You said

there's no hint of a suggestion that if they were (a couple) that the woman would be dependent on the man

No Im suggesting that if they were to go out with one another and they get into a habit eventually of him staying over at hers. If he were to eventually move into her house then it could be argued depending on the circumstances in the case of a break up that the man was dependent on the woman. Not the other way around as you suggested.

In the civil partnership act

As well as conferring tax benefits on Cohabiting couples either of the same or opposite sex, the new act also confers property rights on qualifying cohabitants.
A qualifying cohabitant is defined as a person who has lived with another for 2 years or more in the case where they are the parents of one or more dependent children, or 5 years or more, in any other case.
a qualifying cohabitant will have the right to seek redress from the courts in a manner not unlike what is currently available to married couples.

If a qualifying cohabitant can satisfy the court that he or she is financially dependent on the other cohabitant and that the financial dependence arises from the relationship or the ending of the relationship, the court may order:

That property be transferred from one party to the other
That maintenance be paid,
That a pension adjustment order be granted,
That a cohabitant be provided for from the estate of a deceased cohabitant where one is deceased

http://www.ohod.ie/index.php/property-conveyancing/property-law-news/76-property-ownership-and-the-civil-partnership-act

The Big Red Button

Fizzlesque wrote: »

A friend of mine has a similar attitude to your friend. She only wanted to meet a man who had his own house, because she had her own house and thought the power balance would be all wrong. I disagreed with her when she said that to me, and I disagree with your friend too.

It can cause all kinds of problems, too, if the relationship gets serious and both people own houses.

A friend of mine bought a house in her early thirties. Shortly afterwards, she met a man of a similar same age who also owns a house - but in a different county to her, three hours away. They're married now, they are living in her home county but have had to move out of her house and rent out a far smaller house, and they're using the rental income from her house to cover the mortgages. They can't find a tenant for his house, as it's in an isolated area. They would absolutely love to sell one/both of the houses, but they can't as they're in huge negative equity, and will be for years.

It's just all very messy!

mackg

mariaalice wrote: »

If you were in your forties and you met a man also single and after a few dates it emerged that he was still renting and had never owned a house or apartment would that bother you? I know someone who has met a nice guy that she says is nice and she is a bit put off by this.

When I started to get out and about after my first marriage ended I had a few relationships and all the men had their own own home so I don't know if I would be put off by it, but thinking about it and if I am honest I would be a bit put off.

Apart from the Irish obsession with property ownership what I get out of this is that your friend, given her age is interested in settling down and sees the fact that the guy hasn't owned a house as evidence that he isn't a settled kind of guy. Am I right?

Thing is that that house ownership isn't really a good indication of this and shouldn't be used to make huge assumptions. Best thing would be to ask the guy although it might be a good idea to leave that a little longer than "after a few dates".

jluv

Owning a house would not be a absolute indication that someone is reliable or sensible. There would be many other things that could better decide that. Maybe a little more time to get to know the person would be the way to go. If things did progress further then yes I would be very careful in making a decision around living arrangements but by then you would have a better understanding of the persons character.
Now I just need to meet someone as I have it all figured out;)

shopaholic01

Prior to cohabiting you can enter a cohabitants agreement thereby preventing your partner having any entitlement to your property.

I would have thought that we would now be moving away from the mentality of judging people on properties/cars/etc they may or may not own.

People don't buy for all types of reasons - they may not want to settle in one particular area, may not be planning on settling down, may not want the responsibility of maintaining a property etc.

I don't think it's an indication of their financial position or maturity.

I wish I did not buy a property, I would be jealous tbh as opposed to concerned.

Your friend should get to know the guy and judge him on his personal attributes, not on his material possessions.

Rafaella

Renting is definitely a more favourable option for many in the current economic climate. Perhaps the man in question was waiting to settle down before buying? It wouldn't put me off, once he isn't still living at home.

Neyite

He might be like my partner and I. We are in our late thirties, and could get a mortgage if we chose to, but then one of us could lose our job and we would need to go abroad for a few years.

We know where we will build, and we have it designed, but jobs here look a bit more secure, we wont be commiting to property here.

Princess Peach

Neyite wrote: »

He might be like my partner and I. We are in our late thirties, and could get a mortgage if we chose to, but then one of us could lose our job and we would need to go abroad for a few years.

We know where we will build, and we have it designed, but jobs here look a bit more secure, we wont be commiting to property here.

This is my thought exactly! I won't buy a house until I am 100% sure I have found the town I want to settle down in for life, cause you can never be guaranteed to sell a house at the price you pay for it. Friends of mine in their early 20s are saving for deposits, I think they are crazy!

My boyfriend is 8 years older than me, but I am so glad he has rented all his life as now we are very flexible to move anywhere we want. He had the opportunity to buy a place a few years ago, so happy he didn't!

I also think it would be very normal for a single man not to own a home in his forties. Paying a mortgage alone can be a burden.

The problem is the lease terms in Ireland. In Europe you can get a lease that's 100 years, and then pass it on to your children. Here it's 2 years mostly!

OakeyDokey

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. If they were living with their parents not that's another story! I'd actually see it as a positive thing, I'd know they are flexible and have the option to go live wherever and not be held down.

The Lovely Muffin

Wouldn't put me off in the slightest.

What a guy has or doesn't have has absolutely nothing to do with me going out with him.

I would go with him because I like him and want to go out with him, not for what he has/doesn't have.

Even if he had millions in the bank, a fleet of cars and ten houses, if we were ever married and split up, I wouldn't take a claim to any of his money/assets etc, they are his and that is that, they aren't mine and it would be wrong of me to claim any of them.

If we had kids then I would expect him to pay maintenance for them yes, but nothing more.

analucija

No, if he is owns a house or not wouldn't make the slightest bit of a difference. How driven he is in his job or life in general would though.
I wouldn't be happy with any waster just because he has hart of gold.

py2006

OakeyDokey wrote: »

It wouldn't bother me in the slightest. If they were living with their parents not that's another story! I'd actually see it as a positive thing, I'd know they are flexible and have the option to go live wherever and not be held down.

Whats the issue with living with his parents here?

I have noticed a lot of guys in their late 20's and early 30's have moved back to the family home because of the current climate.

The Big Red Button

py2006 wrote: »

Whats the issue with living with his parents here?

I have noticed a lot of guys in their late 20's and early 30's have moved back to the family home because of the current climate.

It would be a massive turnoff for me.

If you're going out with a guy, you're going to want to be able to go back to both of your places, right?

You can't do that if a guy's living at home, can you? I mean, I wouldn't be comfortable meeting a guy's parents until we're in a very established relationship. And that's only meeting them - a massive step in itself - let alone staying over in their house! :eek: I'd consider that to be a very massive deal!

So, what would you suggest - the guy stays at the girl's place the first several months of the relationship? It could work, yeah, but it's hardly ideal.

I know plenty of guys on the dole who are perfectly capable of living happy independent lives outside of their parents' home. The recession is no excuse whatsoever - there are plenty of state benefits there.

(Editing, just to note - I'm not recommending that anyone should live off state benefits long-term. But, while you're job-hunting, I personally consider it to be a better alternative than living off your parents - surely they've done enough for you!!)

I think its a generational thing thats showing up on this thread, before the Celtic tiger buying a house was a perfectly sensible thing to do, the quality of rented accommodation was very poor and if you were still renting in your forties it was not a good thing, remember until the 1990s the opportunities for travel were not as availed as they are now, the only people I knew who traveled when I was young went to Israel to a kibbutz ( late 70s ) and even that was very exotic.

So someone in there forties is on the cusp between the old and the new and is maybe going to see thing differently.

py2006

chatterpillar wrote: »

I know plenty of guys on the dole who are perfectly capable of living happy independent lives outside of their parents' home. The recession is no excuse whatsoever - there are plenty of state benefits there.

(Editing, just to note - I'm not recommending that anyone should live off state benefits long-term. But, while you're job-hunting, I personally consider it to be a better alternative than living off your parents - surely they've done enough for you!!)

Well circumstances are different and there is a bit of a waiting list of benefits relating to renting. I am sure somebody relying on benefits would be equally as unattractive for some.

I can understand the issue of 'going back to his'.

Madam_X

Wouldn't bother me. Even if he was living with the folks because he needed to move home, but was still independent.

I disagree with gloating at people who are saddled with mortgages too though.

eviltwin

It would depend on why he was at home. If he was the typical mammy's boy who was getting his meals served up, his washing done etc I would run a mile. But it could be he is living a very independent life while living in the family home. I think for some people it can be hard to make the break if you are the last one at home and you have parents who are elderly and possibly dependent on you to a degree.

Princess Peach

py2006 wrote: »

Whats the issue with living with his parents here?

I have noticed a lot of guys in their late 20's and early 30's have moved back to the family home because of the current climate.

I know guys, and girls though who are not living at home because of financial reasons. You get to an age when anyone has a job and just should move out. Yeah you have less money, but you have to grow up at some stage.

I don't understand it! I've moved out this year, and while I don't have a lot of money I couldn't dream of going home again. Moved back in once before for a few years and I hated it.

It's just weird to me. Seems a lot more acceptable for girls for some reason though.

Princess Peach

Princess Peach wrote: »

I know guys, and girls though who are not living at home because of financial reasons. You get to an age when anyone has a job and just should move out. Yeah you have less money, but you have to grow up at some stage.

I don't understand it! I've moved out this year, and while I don't have a lot of money I couldn't dream of going home again. Moved back in once before for a few years and I hated it.

It's just weird to me. Seems a lot more acceptable for girls for some reason though.

I moved home again after a landlord wanted to move back into his home and gave us notice, and I was expecting to move in with someone else in a few months so didn't want to sign a contract etc
the dynamic is completely different to what it used to be, we're two independent adults living there doing our own thing, taking turns at cooking and whathaveyou, and while she's still my mother, it's nothing like before
so i wouldn't have a problem with that kind of set up. ended up staying!

the problem is as said above when someone is being a mollycoddled child at home

Princess Peach

bluewolf wrote: »

I moved home again after a landlord wanted to move back into his home and gave us notice, and I was expecting to move in with someone else in a few months so didn't want to sign a contract etc
the dynamic is completely different to what it used to be, we're two independent adults living there doing our own thing, taking turns at cooking and whathaveyou, and while she's still my mother, it's nothing like before
so i wouldn't have a problem with that kind of set up. ended up staying!

the problem is as said above when someone is being a mollycoddled child at home

And these are the people I know, and the way my mother was! Drove me crazy! But some people seem to love it!

BraziliaNZ

Princess Peach wrote: »

I know guys, and girls though who are not living at home because of financial reasons. You get to an age when anyone has a job and just should move out. Yeah you have less money, but you have to grow up at some stage.

I don't understand it! I've moved out this year, and while I don't have a lot of money I couldn't dream of going home again. Moved back in once before for a few years and I hated it. It's just weird to me. Seems a lot more acceptable for girls for some reason though.

Can't be that weird to you and you couldn't have hated it that much if you stayed there for a few years! People in glass houses etc.

Princess Peach

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Can't be that weird to you and you couldn't have hated it that much if you stayed there for a few years! People in glass houses etc.

It was for financial reasons. The point I made is I know people who do it for non financial reasons, live at home even though they can afford their own place.

The Big Red Button

py2006 wrote: »

Well circumstances are different and there is a bit of a waiting list of benefits relating to renting. I am sure somebody relying on benefits would be equally as unattractive for some.

I can understand the issue of 'going back to his'.

Yeah, to be fair, I know circumstances are different. My post before that maybe seemed a little harsh.

Put it this way - in an ideal world, I'd prefer a boyfriend to have a job, and I'd very much prefer him to be living away from his family. But, if I liked a guy enough, neither of those things would be dealbreakers.

If I was seeing a guy, I'd (obviously) want to be seeing him as much as possible, and I wouldn't be comfortable with staying in his parent(s) house - especially in the early days - and I wouldn't be at all happy with him staying over in mine the whole time either. So that's what would put me off.

bluewolf wrote: »

I moved home again after a landlord wanted to move back into his home and gave us notice, and I was expecting to move in with someone else in a few months so didn't want to sign a contract etc
the dynamic is completely different to what it used to be, we're two independent adults living there doing our own thing, taking turns at cooking and whathaveyou, and while she's still my mother, it's nothing like before
so i wouldn't have a problem with that kind of set up. ended up staying!

the problem is as said above when someone is being a mollycoddled child at home

See I get that - obviously, that set-up works well for both of you - and, from what I know of you, you seem like a really independent person!

It's just that, if I met a man, and he said that to me - that he was living at home with his mum, but that they were two independent adults living together, cooking each other dinner, etc, just like your situation - I'd understand it, but I still wouldn't be happy to go home to his place, you know?

chatterpillar

chatterpillar wrote: »

See I get that - obviously, that set-up works well for both of you - and, from what I know of you, you seem like a really independent person!

It's just that, if I met a man, and he said that to me - that he was living at home with his mum, but that they were two independent adults living together, cooking each other dinner, etc, just like your situation - I'd understand it, but I still wouldn't be happy to go home to his place, you know?

ah yeah i get ya, i was mostly responding to the "but you need to grow up and move out" and "i don't get it" stuff

guernica

I think I would be more put off by someone who did own a house and was now in serious negative equity, as one of the previous posters said. However see where the OP is coming from regarding the generational differences.

Also as another poster pointed out, wouldn't really care either way if I liked someone. Although would be suspicious of anyone still living at home except in exceptional circumstances!