Deer & Target

kay 9

Hi folks, doing a little research for a friend that is getting into deer stalking and also wants to do a bit of target work. He wants to get a .270 but I have advised to maybe go for a .308 instead due to a larger selection of different rounds for hunting/target.
What would ye recommend between the above calibers and other potentials such as the 30-06 etc?
Thanks for replies, I know this has been covered before but attitudes change towards calibers over time:D All suggestions welcome!

Cass

.243, 6.5x55, .270, 25-06, 30-06, 300WM are all great deer calibers, and good enough for some plinking. If his target ambition is solely plinking well i would advise to concentrate more on the preferred caliber for deer stalking, and use whatever he chooses for the occassional bit of plinking.

If he wants a rifle that will do both well the answer is there are none. Not so much a caliber issue, but more firearm design. A hunting rifle will be light, short barreled, and will not stand a chance against a dedicated target rifle (irrespective of caliber).

A more target orientated rifle will be heavier, longer barrel (sometimes), and a pig to carry when out in the field.

The best he can do is go for a rig that gives a little of both, but would be more suited to his primary need. So if stalking is his first choice/need for the rifle then go with a hunting based rifle, and adapt to using it for some plinking. For target as a primary function - vice versa.

As for caliber. Well if plinking is his only type of target shooting then whichever caliber offers the best option of cheap, affordable yet decent ammo. The .308 fits a lot of these tags. HPS at €1 a bullet gives great performance for target, and then use Hornady, Federal, Remington, etc for hunting. Not alot of target ammo available in other calibers, and none at the price of HPS. Most would be as expensive if not more than most hunting ammo.

If for serious target work with some deer stalking then again .308cal is the better option. Any other caliber would fall into F-Open type shooting meaning you would be up against the dedicated 7mms, and 6.5x284s. Impossible to beat with a .243, 6.5, etc with or without using hunting ammo.

kay 9

Thanks for the reply Ezri, as always very helpful and a great deal of info:) He's not going to be taking target too serious if I know the lad correctly, so as you say whichever caliber suits him best for stalking should do unless he goes for a 338lap.mag and that's just dreaming:D Will convey the message to choose whichever caliber he wants. Nothing wrong with a .270 anyway, just that I'd probably choose the .308 over it purely down to the availability of cheap ammo for that odd bit of plinking.

Cass

That's the thing lad. I see a lot of lads with cracking hunting rifles that would match most target guns at 100, and 200 yards. However when you pass this stage the target rifle come into their own, and then the lad with the hunting rifle is fighting an ever loosing battle.

My Father's 30-06 Sauer was by no means a cheap rifle. However due to the large caliber, and light barrel after the 3rd shot she would heat up, and then the shots started to climb high and right everytime. My mate had the same rifle in 25-06 and it done the exact same thing. The rifle, while expensive, and great for stalking, was not built with multiple shots in mind. However when out stalking it dropped everything, and was a dream to carry and fire.

I used to shoot with both a TRG in .308 and Sauer in 6.5x55. Both rifles were 26" barreled, and roughly 14lbs. Both would easily shoot 600 yards, with the TRG shooting to 1,000 yards. Problem is by the time i carried them for an hour i just wanted to sleep. .


There is a reason .308 is so popular. It is one of the most common calibers, and as such ammo selection (at least in Ireland) is huge, and only matched by .223, but for the purpose of this thread that caliber is irrelevant.

As said above the .308 has a good selection of hunting ammo available, and of course Lapua, and HPS target ammo. Minimum to maximum price can range between €1 per shot to €2.10 per shot. Look at other calibers though. The .243, 6.5, .270, etc all have decent selections of ammo, but most are priced from €36 up to €44 depending on caliber/make/brand. Then there is the issue of target ammo for it. The price of it is the same as the hunting ammo so most lads stick with the brand they use for hunting as the rifle need not be re-zeroed for the target ammo, and they can apply that accuracy/grouping to real world situations (stalking, foxing, etc).

It's always good to have a caliber in mind, but more often than not (as i found out only in the last week) sometimes the right rifle finds/picks you, and the caliber you intended to buy becomes irrelevant.

Have a look on the for sale section. With it coming up to deer season, a good few lads will be looking to sell their rifles for upgrades, changes, getting out of it, etc. The right rifle might be under your mate's nose.:cool:

deerhunter1

kay 9 wrote: »

Hi folks, doing a little research for a friend that is getting into deer stalking and also wants to do a bit of target work. He wants to get a .270 but I have advised to maybe go for a .308 instead due to a larger selection of different rounds for hunting/target.
What would ye recommend between the above calibers and other potentials such as the 30-06 etc?
Thanks for replies, I know this has been covered before but attitudes change towards calibers over time:D All suggestions welcome!

308 308

kay 9

Ezridax wrote: »

That's the thing lad. I see a lot of lads with cracking hunting rifles that would match most target guns at 100, and 200 yards. However when you pass this stage the target rifle come into their own, and then the lad with the hunting rifle is fighting an ever loosing battle.

My Father's 30-06 Sauer was by no means a cheap rifle. However due to the large caliber, and light barrel after the 3rd shot she would heat up, and then the shots started to climb high and right everytime. My mate had the same rifle in 25-06 and it done the exact same thing. The rifle, while expensive, and great for stalking, was not built with multiple shots in mind. However when out stalking it dropped everything, and was a dream to carry and fire.

I used to shoot with both a TRG in .308 and Sauer in 6.5x55. Both rifles were 26" barreled, and roughly 14lbs. Both would easily shoot 600 yards, with the TRG shooting to 1,000 yards. Problem is by the time i carried them for an hour i just wanted to sleep. .


There is a reason .308 is so popular. It is one of the most common calibers, and as such ammo selection (at least in Ireland) is huge, and only matched by .223, but for the purpose of this thread that caliber is irrelevant.

As said above the .308 has a good selection of hunting ammo available, and of course Lapua, and HPS target ammo. Minimum to maximum price can range between €1 per shot to €2.10 per shot. Look at other calibers though. The .243, 6.5, .270, etc all have decent selections of ammo, but most are priced from €36 up to €44 depending on caliber/make/brand. Then there is the issue of target ammo for it. The price of it is the same as the hunting ammo so most lads stick with the brand they use for hunting as the rifle need not be re-zeroed for the target ammo, and they can apply that accuracy/grouping to real world situations (stalking, foxing, etc).

It's always good to have a caliber in mind, but more often than not (as i found out only in the last week) sometimes the right rifle finds/picks you, and the caliber you intended to buy becomes irrelevant.

Have a look on the for sale section. With it coming up to deer season, a good few lads will be looking to sell their rifles for upgrades, changes, getting out of it, etc. The right rifle might be under your mate's nose.:cool:

Yeah I'd not fancy too much stalking with a trg:D Animal of a thing. Thanks again Ezri, will tell him to pick whichever feels best in what he tries and maybe leave caliber choice as a secondary for now as all legitimate stalking calibers here are more than capable with correct shot placement.

deerhunter1 wrote: »

308 308

Yep if it was me Deerhunter I'd opt for the 308 too.

Longranger

I can't comment on a target rifle as i don't do any(yet:-)),but i can relate to choosing your rifle. Last year i was looking at a steyr elite,a trg22,a sako 85 and an accuracy international .308,all with the intention of buying a hunting\target rifle. In the end they were either too expensive or too heavy or both. One day my local rfd handed me a cz550 full stock in 6.5 swedish,and i have never held a more comfortable rifle(for me anyway). I fell in love with it instantly even though it was a more expensive calibre to feed. I figured if i'm using it for hunting i won't be putting more than a handful of rounds a day through it,so cost isn't really a problem. When the time is right i'll buy a dedicated target rifle,but i'm in no hurry. I think you can buy a rifle because the calibre sounds good but if the gun doesn't fit you you'll never be happy shooting it. Just my opinion. Good luck lad,and pick the one that your shoulder likes:-)
LR

4200fps

The .270 has quite alot of different bullet types. I've yet to find a dealer who will stock all the different types of bullets/grain for any particular caliber. The .270 is flatter and harder hitting than the .308 with the same grain bullet. Both do the very same job. I'd go for a .270 any day

Cass

But for the bit of target work/plinking. What choices has the .270, and what price is that target ammo. I've already listed the prices above for .308 so would be interested to see the comparison.

vixdname

Ezridax wrote: »

The .308 fits a lot of these tags. HPS at €1 a bullet gives great performance for target, and then use Hornady, Federal, Remington, etc for hunting. Not alot of target ammo available in other calibers, and none at the price of HPS. Most would be as expensive if not more than most hunting ammo.
.

Not so Ez, you can by Privi Partisan (PPU) rounds in .270 for €17 for 20, thats less then €1 per round for .270
I used them today and we hitting 16'' X 16'' steel plate every shot

Cass

I don't believe that PPU can match HPS ammo for consistency, accuracy, and precision. Having shot it out to 1,000 competitively. I have never seen anyone shoot PPU to that distance.

Even if the OP has no intention of shooting that distance HPS will allow him the option, and at any distance i would still back HPS against any other factory target round. John Carmichael has probably forgotten more about reloading than most of know.

Is PPU available in .243, 25-06, 6.5x55, .270, .308, etc? Also what is the availability of it here?

It wasn't me!

Ezridax wrote: »

Is PPU available in .243, 25-06, 6.5x55, .270, .308, etc? Also what is the availability of it here?

Yes, John Kavanagh would have all of the above as a rule. I'm hoping to pick up and try the 100gr PSP in .25-06 in the near future. Availability is getting very good with it though.

deerhunter1

vixdname wrote: »

Not so Ez, you can by Privi Partisan (PPU) rounds in .270 for €17 for 20, thats less then €1 per round for .270
I used them today and we hitting 16'' X 16'' steel plate every shot

from where 50-100yards:D:rolleyes:

FISMA

kay 9 wrote: »

Hi folks, doing a little research for a friend that is getting into deer stalking and also wants to do a bit of target work. He wants to get a .270 but I have advised to maybe go for a .308 instead due to a larger selection of different rounds for hunting/target.
What would ye recommend between the above calibers and other potentials such as the 30-06 etc?
Thanks for replies, I know this has been covered before but attitudes change towards calibers over time:D All suggestions welcome!

Kay9, do you know anyone with a 30-06? If not, I'll be back in a few months and you could always try before you buy.

I love the 30-06, in the States, she's a cheap date at the range. I can feed it Rem green box stuff - less than $1.00 a round and she'll shoot all day.

If I were in Ireland I think I would get a 308. However, a close second would be the 270. The price would be the deciding factor.

Have you checked out the 243? I am hearing great things about them.

Could someone please post some average costs for boxes of ammo in Ireland? What does a box of: 270, 308, 243, 223, and 22-250 go for? Hornady? Remington?

4200fps

Ezridax wrote: »

But for the bit of target work/plinking. What choices has the .270, and what price is that target ammo. I've already listed the prices above for .308 so would be interested to see the comparison.

Our local dealer sells Remmy soft points for the .270 at 20euro a box, Thats all he has in stock at the moment in .270. 1 euro a round for mid range ammo is good

4200fps

FISMA wrote: »

Kay9, do you know anyone with a 30-06? If not, I'll be back in a few months and you could always try before you buy.

I love the 30-06, in the States, she's a cheap date at the range. I can feed it Rem green box stuff - less than $1.00 a round and she'll shoot all day.

If I were in Ireland I think I would get a 308. However, a close second would be the 270. The price would be the deciding factor.

Have you checked out the 243? I am hearing great things about them.

Could someone please post some average costs for boxes of ammo in Ireland? What does a box of: 270, 308, 243, 223, and 22-250 go for? Hornady? Remington?

Hornady 243 58 grain v-max 30euro and 22-250 55grain Hornady is 30 euro a box

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

Our local dealer sells Remmy soft points for the .270 at 20euro a box, Thats all he has in stock at the moment in .270. 1 euro a round for mid range ammo is good

It's not bad at all.

However that's hunting ammo, and will drop like a stone at longer distances. The .308 has the largest selection of ammo both hunting and target because of it's popularity. My point about HPS is not to get into a pissing match about which is best value, but moreso which is the better quality.

By quality i mean one holing at 100, keeping half MOA at every distance, and consistantly hitting the V-bull (5 inch) at 1,000 yards. So if you are going to do a little target shooting why not go the better ammo that eliminates any doubt. IOW if you know the ammo is of great quality then you cannot blame it for a poor performance on your part.

The other aspect of all this, and without dragging the thread off on an ammo discussion, the .308 will usually sell better when you go to trade or re-sell it.

Like always the best advice would be to go to a range and have a look at what rifles lads are using, what calibers, what they use it for, and what pros, and cons come with the rifle, ammo they use, price, availability, etc.

This will show, and tell you more than any of us could do from our own experiences.

vixdname

deerhunter1 wrote: »

from where 50-100yards:D:rolleyes:

Sorry deerhunter1, are you implying by your comment and rolling eyes etc that I'm lying ??? I can assure you I dont need to lie about what targets I hit and at what distances. We were hitting a 16inch X 16inch steel plate consistently at 600 yrds.
I can take from you comment that such shooting is obviously beyond YOUR skill level or ability but dont try and drag everyone elses ability down to your level :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

deerhunter1

vixdname wrote: »

Sorry deerhunter1, are you implying by your comment and rolling eyes etc that I'm lying ??? I can assure you I dont need to lie about what targets I hit and at what distances. We were hitting a 16inch X 16inch steel plate consistently at 600 yrds.
I can take from you comment that such shooting is obviously beyond YOUR skill level or ability but dont try and drag everyone elses ability down to your level :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Jaysus man lighten up:eek:, never implied any such thing, first and foremost in your post you do not state what range you were firing at, and believe me when I say I was probably firing at that distance and beyond before you handled a decent rifle, done that and bought the T-Shirt and it is well faded now, got bored of doing it.

vixdname

deerhunter1 wrote: »

Jaysus man lighten up:eek:, never implied any such thing, first and foremost in your post you do not state what range you were firing at, and believe me when I say I was probably firing at that distance and beyond before you handled a decent rifle, done that and bought the T-Shirt and it is well faded now, got bored of doing it.

deerhunter1, you have no idea whatsoever of my age so please leave out the old man of the roads comments, after all age doesnt necessarily bring skill, you could have a 20 year old shooter whos a far superior shot then a lad of 50 whos been shooting all his life.
Sorry if I misunderstood your 1st comment, just thought you were one of those lads that try and make little of anything other posters put up. :cool:

deerhunter1

vixdname wrote: »

deerhunter1, you have no idea whatsoever of my age so please leave out the old man of the roads comments, after all age doesnt necessarily bring skill, you could have a 20 year old shooter whos a far superior shot then a lad of 50 whos been shooting all his life.
Sorry if I misunderstood your 1st comment, just thought you were one of those lads that try and make little of anything other posters put up. :cool:

Not a bother, just a bit of banter. I know many a good shooting instructor who themselves would not hit the broadside a barn from 50yds.

kay 9

FISMA wrote: »

Kay9, do you know anyone with a 30-06? If not, I'll be back in a few months and you could always try before you buy.

I love the 30-06, in the States, she's a cheap date at the range. I can feed it Rem green box stuff - less than $1.00 a round and she'll shoot all day.

If I were in Ireland I think I would get a 308. However, a close second would be the 270. The price would be the deciding factor.

Have you checked out the 243? I am hearing great things about them.

Could someone please post some average costs for boxes of ammo in Ireland? What does a box of: 270, 308, 243, 223, and 22-250 go for? Hornady? Remington?

Thanks for the offer Fisma, if he hasn't got something before your back I'll let him know. I mentioned the 243 to him also but 270 seems to be what he's stuck on. I think any of the deer legal calibres here are more than enough for a guy that will only shoot target/plink 3-4 times a year max more than likely. Would love a crack out of the 30-06 myself though when your back again. Getting much use from the Leica?

Erk

.308 i'd go for. Great caliber.

badshot

4200fps wrote: »

Hornady 243 58 grain v-max 30euro and 22-250 55grain Hornady is 30 euro a box

just wondering where are you getting hornady 58 grain @30 euro
i paid 40euro