straw versus slats

Username John

bee_keeper wrote: »

very good post , thank you

i could actually use all three links of the hayshed and keep the straw outside , i once went to a farm where the farmer rather than build a hay - straw shed , wrapped his bales of straw , the bales cost an extraw four euro for plastic and wrapping but he was able to keep the bales outside , probabley wouldnt be a good idea over a long time but would do for a winter untill you decided what to do

If you had 3 links - then would you consider putting in a creep for calves?
Would this allow you to keep one place 'very clean freshly bedded' with straw for the calves, and then allow the rest of the straw shed to be 'not as clean' It might save on the straw costs over the winter.
Just a thought

Hmmm, storing bales of straw...
Well, for one winter - could you stack the straw bales and just get some big tarpaulin to put over them? Again - not a good idea long term, but for one winter, it might work out.
(I have seen this done in a few places - and when I saw see, I mean when driving around and being nosey, looking in over the ditches at what other people are doing)

As I assume you are going to buy the straw - maybe it would be possible to get it in two smaller loads, so it can stay in the buyers shed for longer? You'd have to see how that would work out financially though.

How many round bales would you need I wonder?
Some people store round bales of hay outside, people on here have commented they do it - as long as they are not touching each other I think its ok, as the rain can run off them. But they might take up a lot of space. But I havent done it myself, or seen it done...

Sorry OP - gone a bit off topic maybe...

As an aside - are you actually a beekeeper?

yellow50HX

Username John wrote: »

Hi Bee_keeper,
Firstly - I don't have cattle, and know little about em.

But I have been following this thread - and it seems that you are in an very good position. The slatted house is beside the old hayshed - so this winter you could fit out two bays/links of the hayshed, straw-bed it, and give the cattle access to it.
This way - you could see how it works out - and the only cost would be the straw + whatever gates/fitting you would need to do.

I don't know enough the figures of space required for cattle + how much straw would be used. But what sort of floor does the hayshed have now? As this will have a big impact the amount of straw used.

I would be very careful as someone mentioned already, that cattle cant get at the straw in the third bay, and pull it down on themselves.

The advantage of doing this - is you can see what the straw bedding is like - to me it seems like a win-win situation.
- You already have the shed, and the costs of setting it for cattle would be minimal (compared to putting in a tank)
- The thrive / health benefits could be assessed this winter, so you could see what the additional benefits straw might bring
- You could also see how much straw you would use, and then see be able to compare figures properly
- You could see next Spring / Summer how the dung suits you - if you have a reseeding program, the dung would be very good for this. But even if you don't, the dung would still be great for grassland.

To me it would seem like the best of both worlds... but like I say - dont have cattle..

That's my two-cents...

good points, seems like you can see how this works out this winter and that would give you a good idea for what would be needed in the long term. As for storing bales outside, id be wary. the outside of the bale will be waste but if its baled well then the inside will stay dry and can be used for bedding. We also use the straw for feeding but only with bales stored inside. my dad used to store bales on pallets outside 3 high with an old silage cover over it when he was stuck for space. fine till it gets stormy. Have seen a few lads stack the bales in a pyrmaid and put the sheet over them. If the sheet punctires the water can then run off the bales. ols pallets are great for keeping them off the grond and keep them dry. We use the pallets even when storing inside.

I assume you have a concrete floor in the hay shed?

bee_keeper

Username John wrote: »

If you had 3 links - then would you consider putting in a creep for calves?
Would this allow you to keep one place 'very clean freshly bedded' with straw for the calves, and then allow the rest of the straw shed to be 'not as clean' It might save on the straw costs over the winter.
Just a thought

Hmmm, storing bales of straw...
Well, for one winter - could you stack the straw bales and just get some big tarpaulin to put over them? Again - not a good idea long term, but for one winter, it might work out.
(I have seen this done in a few places - and when I saw see, I mean when driving around and being nosey, looking in over the ditches at what other people are doing)

As I assume you are going to buy the straw - maybe it would be possible to get it in two smaller loads, so it can stay in the buyers shed for longer? You'd have to see how that would work out financially though.

How many round bales would you need I wonder?
Some people store round bales of hay outside, people on here have commented they do it - as long as they are not touching each other I think its ok, as the rain can run off them. But they might take up a lot of space. But I havent done it myself, or seen it done...

Sorry OP - gone a bit off topic maybe...

As an aside - are you actually a beekeeper?

seeing as the cows have a slatted shed to eat in , i thought i might leave the calves with the cows all the time , the hayshed will effectivley be a lieing area for calves and cows , seeing as its a spring calving system , its not as if it will be for that long , ive dry land so i see no problem in putting calves born the 1st of febuary to grass the 1st of march

on another note , how many suckler cows should a farm of fifty acres be able to carry

foreman450

Plus you would need a much bigger shed for cattle on straw. Imagine a slatted pen filled with 10 cows versus the same size pen with
straw under them. They would be up to their necks in it. You need much bigger area. If I was doing it I would put in scrapers at feeding barrier and a fairly big lying area. No doubt they would do better on straw or wood chips.

kboc

bee_keeper wrote: »

can woodchip be used as manure upon cleaning out the shed ?

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

bee_keeper

kboc wrote: »

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

how often do you need to replace - top up woodchip during the winter ?

bob charles

kboc wrote: »

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

at least 12 months and turned regularly, best to throw a couple of bags of urea into the heap to speed up the process. The carbon-nitrogen ratio will still be bananas if its just wood chip and dung mixed after 6 months.

Farmer Pudsey

Would be slow enough using woodchip in a shed. It tends to be wet as there will be no wind to dry it also you need a good layer for it to be effective. If you have gates/barriers you have to rise them, to keep above the chip. Also wood chip is not cheap and is another product that is related to the price of oil as straw is which is why it is getting expensive.

You also have to factor in the value of slurry I myself think that slurry used right more than covers the cost of spreading. If you have strawbedded sheds and want to empty during the winter you may need a dungstead which you now have to factor into the costs. Also ideally you will need to store the dung to let it rot down before you spread on grassland and all the nitrogen will be gone out of it

In the long term slats even with mats will work out the cheapest. At the moment you can get very competive quotes for slats and concrete work.