straw versus slats

bee_keeper

i have a descision to make with an existing three link hay shed , i could dig out tanks ( height is no problem ) as i have near twenty foot from front to back or i could simpley straw bed the shed

plan to use the shed for twenty five suckler cows , i have enough room for a small creep behind slats or could simpley leave everything loose in a straw shed

the question is whether straw is too expensive compared to slats , i reckon slats would pay for themselves in comparison to straw in a relativley short space of time as you would surely use close to 200 bales over a winter at an average cost of 15 euro = 3000 euro per winter on bedding , i cant see a three bay slatted tank costing any more than fifteen grand , another five would easily put in a small creep behind so thats 20 k ( probabley less )

six years and the slats would have paid for themselves , only thing is , some say that straw is better for cattle performance and perhaps the idea of suckler cows lieing on slats is a bad idea and would effect longevity

Farmer Pudsey

I go with the slats straw is getting more expensive every year so 3000 this year, 3200 next year etc. Also you can claim any vat back on slats and concrete and other work on shed so if vat averages 15% ( some at 23 & mst at 13%) on 15k it is worth nearly 2K

Loads of farmers have sucklers on slats it is only the old one's are an issue and if you have a culling policy this will not be an issue

countryjimbo

You could consider using mats with the slats, this makes a big difference to animals comfort.

yellow50HX

straw is cleaner and your less likely to get problems with injections and mastiatis, but you do have the price to pay for. If you were alos in tillage or had a defiite scouce of good straw at a resonable price then i'd go that way. if your going with the slats you might be better off getting in mats and you may also need to injection for ecoli? could you get a run of cubiles in?

bbam

Can I ask would cubicles, mats and automatic scrapers be a possibility?
Advantages of not having cows on slats but also no bedding and less handling of manure.

danpaddyandy

i always thought that cows should only on slats to eatand then have a lie back area. for 25 cows the lie back area would need to be around 80 -100 m2 id say but maybe less if its ok for sucklers to lie on slats. i wouldnt like to have them on the slats too long especially over a bad winter.

The bigger the lie back you have the better id say as it ll give you more scope afterwards and if you have the correct fall twill be self cleaning

Rubber mats are the job but savage expensive

bee_keeper

bbam wrote: »

Can I ask would cubicles, mats and automatic scrapers be a possibility?
Advantages of not having cows on slats but also no bedding and less handling of manure.

straw would be cheaper than that option and requires less space

mats are an option on the slats but their still lying in dung at the end of the day

yellow50HX

just thinking again.

if you have a 3 bay shed at 20x45 then it'll be tight to have slats and a creep area as i assume you want to be able to clean it out afterwards. so it'll need to be wide enough to get in a tractor also you will need room for a calving pen/area so you will need to leave enough room to stall a cow and to be able to jack out the calf if needed. you will probably need to knock the wall on one side (im assuming it has walls) to put your feed barrier and you will need to put a canopy over that to stop the rain falling on your silage.

can you build along outside on one side on the shed? if you had enough room you could put a 3 bay slatted shed with a canopy or leanto over it, this could be your feeding area. the 1st 2 bays of the shed could then be used as a lie back for the cows with a creep area for the calves behind it. you could then use the last bay to store the straw bales and roll them down when you need them. as the cows will only be using the straw for lying on they will be less mucking and you would use a lot less bales. it would also allow for a bigger tank. also you could just use the slats for dry cattle down the road if you changed system.

the cows paps need to be clean to stop the calf getting sick. like a lot of good advice on previous post on this matter a good idea is to get in the car a see a few similar set-up's. we all do things a little different and they maybe so vey good ideas you hadn't thought of. i know we picked up some good ideas and things to look for when my dad did some building a few years ago

Dont be daft

Does anyone have any links to reports or studies done on animal performance on all the different systems?
eg Straw bedding vs. Slats vs. Rubber matts vs Rubber covered slats vs. pads

I seen in the Grange research farm their doing studies on the rubber covered slats.

We have a few straw pens for cattle that are weak on their feet or have bad backs. Once they're not lame and are recovered their thrive is noticeably better than the bulls on slats.
I have heard people say there can be 0.3kg of live weight gain difference on straw to slats on an identical diet. From what I've seen I'd well believe it

bee_keeper

yellow50HX wrote: »

just thinking again.

if you have a 3 bay shed at 20x45 then it'll be tight to have slats and a creep area as i assume you want to be able to clean it out afterwards. so it'll need to be wide enough to get in a tractor also you will need room for a calving pen/area so you will need to leave enough room to stall a cow and to be able to jack out the calf if needed. you will probably need to knock the wall on one side (im assuming it has walls) to put your feed barrier and you will need to put a canopy over that to stop the rain falling on your silage.

can you build along outside on one side on the shed? if you had enough room you could put a 3 bay slatted shed with a canopy or leanto over it, this could be your feeding area. the 1st 2 bays of the shed could then be used as a lie back for the cows with a creep area for the calves behind it. you could then use the last bay to store the straw bales and roll them down when you need them. as the cows will only be using the straw for lying on they will be less mucking and you would use a lot less bales. it would also allow for a bigger tank. also you could just use the slats for dry cattle down the road if you changed system.

the cows paps need to be clean to stop the calf getting sick. like a lot of good advice on previous post on this matter a good idea is to get in the car a see a few similar set-up's. we all do things a little different and they maybe so vey good ideas you hadn't thought of. i know we picked up some good ideas and things to look for when my dad did some building a few years ago

the hay shed is adjoining a four link slatted shed , i could just make an entrance from the slatted shed into the hayshed , two 15 x 20 ft links would surely be enough of a lie back area for the cows , third link would be needed for the straw

how much less straw would you need if the cows were eating on slats while having a lie back on straw , you would think half as much would do it ?

jimmy G M

bee_keeper wrote: »

i have a descision to make with an existing three link hay shed , i could dig out tanks ( height is no problem ) as i have near twenty foot from front to back or i could simpley straw bed the shed

plan to use the shed for twenty five suckler cows , i have enough room for a small creep behind slats or could simpley leave everything loose in a straw shed

the question is whether straw is too expensive compared to slats , i reckon slats would pay for themselves in comparison to straw in a relativley short space of time as you would surely use close to 200 bales over a winter at an average cost of 15 euro = 3000 euro per winter on bedding , i cant see a three bay slatted tank costing any more than fifteen grand , another five would easily put in a small creep behind so thats 20 k ( probabley less )

six years and the slats would have paid for themselves , only thing is , some say that straw is better for cattle performance and perhaps the idea of suckler cows lieing on slats is a bad idea and would effect longevity

200 round bales of straw seems a lot to bed 25 cows for winter? Do you plan on cleaning out regularly? If you let straw pile up, you dont need to put fresh straw on so much as lower layers of straw absorb the p*ss. However the rising straw level could interfere with gates, feeding barriers etc, so you will have to clean out a few times at least over the winter. Do you have a dungstead for the straw dung?

Straw bedding is definitely more comfortable for cows than slats and I reckon the dung is super for land much nicer to the earthworms than slurry.

bee_keeper

jimmy G M wrote: »

200 round bales of straw seems a lot to bed 25 cows for winter? Do you plan on cleaning out regularly? If you let straw pile up, you dont need to put fresh straw on so much as lower layers of straw absorb the p*ss. However the rising straw level could interfere with gates, feeding barriers etc, so you will have to clean out a few times at least over the winter. Do you have a dungstead for the straw dung?

Straw bedding is definitely more comfortable for cows than slats and I reckon the dung is super for land much nicer to the earthworms than slurry.

the more i think about it , the more i like the idea of a straw bedded lie back area , four bays should be plenty of space for 30 cows with calves , question is whether two 15 x 20 ft links would be enough area for all those animals , i could add in another link ( hay shed is three link ) but id have no room for storing straw

yellow50HX

what kills straw bedding is were cattle stand for feeding and drinking as this is the area they dung most. i would say yeah you would easily use about half the amount. put fresh staw on top and allow it to take the watsethat wway you reduce the amount of time between mucking out.

as the cows will have more room they will spend more time on the slats but will go back onto the straw to lie down. you also have less chance of them standing on each other as well as not all of them will be in the bedding at the same time. if you can divert the run off from the bedding into the tank rather then letting it gather under the straw it'll also keep it dryer again. a 4 bay slat is loads of room as a feeding passage you could probably even just use 2 or 3 bays and put dry cattle in the rest.

another thing to look at is putting a beam between the straw and slats to stop the cows bring too much straw onto the slats. my uncle uses an old ESB pylon, worked out brilliantly and the cows can easily walk over it.

the final bay could take only take about 45 bales (3 rows of 5 bales, 3 bales high) if you can get in 4 rows that'll be 60 bales. thing to watch for stacking bales by a cattle is to make sure that they cant reach over the and start eating them as it will unstable the bales and cause them to topple.

bee_keeper

yellow50HX wrote: »

what kills straw bedding is were cattle stand for feeding and drinking as this is the area they dung most. i would say yeah you would easily use about half the amount. put fresh staw on top and allow it to take the watsethat wway you reduce the amount of time between mucking out.

as the cows will have more room they will spend more time on the slats but will go back onto the straw to lie down. you also have less chance of them standing on each other as well as not all of them will be in the bedding at the same time. if you can divert the run off from the bedding into the tank rather then letting it gather under the straw it'll also keep it dryer again. a 4 bay slat is loads of room as a feeding passage you could probably even just use 2 or 3 bays and put dry cattle in the rest.

another thing to look at is putting a beam between the straw and slats to stop the cows bring too much straw onto the slats. my uncle uses an old ESB pylon, worked out brilliantly and the cows can easily walk over it.

the final bay could take only take about 45 bales (3 rows of 5 bales, 3 bales high) if you can get in 4 rows that'll be 60 bales. thing to watch for stacking bales by a cattle is to make sure that they cant reach over the and start eating them as it will unstable the bales and cause them to topple.

some say those straw choppers ( teagle ) are a great job for making efficent use of straw , i know no one with one however

Dont be daft

bee_keeper wrote: »

some say those straw choppers ( teagle ) are a great job for making efficent use of straw , i know no one with one however

Always wondered why lads with self-propel harvesters doing nothing all winter wouldnt use them to chop straw for bedding or for feeding.

Probably cost two much in diesel or something blindingly obvious like that. Anyone hear of anyone who does it or contractors who offer it?

bbam

Dont be daft wrote: »

Always wondered why lads with self-propel harvesters doing nothing all winter wouldnt use them to chop straw for bedding or for feeding.

Probably cost two much in diesel or something blindingly obvious like that. Anyone hear of anyone who does it or contractors who offer it?

Jebus..
There a scary enough thing to meet on a bright summers day with some spotty teenager winding down a narrow road as if it's runway 1 in Dublin airport... Can you imagine what they'd be like if you add snow or frost too.. :eek::eek:

just do it

bbam wrote: »

Dont be daft wrote: »

Always wondered why lads with self-propel harvesters doing nothing all winter wouldnt use them to chop straw for bedding or for feeding.

Probably cost two much in diesel or something blindingly obvious like that. Anyone hear of anyone who does it or contractors who offer it?

Jebus..
There a scary enough thing to meet on a bright summers day with some spotty teenager winding down a narrow road as if it's runway 1 in Dublin airport... Can you imagine what they'd be like if you add snow or frost too.. :eek::eek:

I was giving out about such a young lad one day coming down a hill to a cross-roads in a big john deere on icy roads to a few of the lads in the office. It turns out the young lad was the son of one of the bosses who was sitting there staring at me :eek:

Bizzum

For me a designated lie back area for the calves would be a priority.
We have cows on slats with mats and calves access a straw bedded creep area.
Big incalf cows are not easy on straw bedding!

just do it

I've cows on slats with rubber mats and have had no issues with mastitis. Cows thrive well on them and are very comfortable on them. I got them as I was constantly nursing a few old ladies, particularly towards the end of the housing period. Financially they're expensive but I reckon I'll get an extra few years out of cows by having them. Also they show heat better, come back in heat sooner after calving etc. Even the cows that were doing alright on the concrete slats are doing better on the mats.

One option I've heard is only put the mat on the back half of the pen thus cutting the cost in half.

Having said all that if you've the option of a straw lie back at a reasonable cost it's definitely a good option.

sh1tstirrer

You will need a lot bigger shed to keep 25 cows on straw instead of slats. The 3 bay shed would have just enough lying space for 20 cows on straw. After that you need some where to feed them and to store slurry off the feed passage.

As for the idea of chopping straw with a silage harvested, don't be daft
to chop straw for bedding it needs to be blown into the pen as otherwise there will be a lot of shoveling and spreading by hand.

bee_keeper

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

You will need a lot bigger shed to keep 25 cows on straw instead of slats. The 3 bay shed would have just enough lying space for 20 cows on straw. After that you need some where to feed them and to store slurry off the feed passage.

As for the idea of chopping straw with a silage harvested, don't be daft
to chop straw for bedding it needs to be blown into the pen as otherwise there will be a lot of shoveling and spreading by hand.

i have a four bay slatted unit adjoining a three link hay shed , the slatted shed is at a right angle to the hay shed , i thought the cows could eat in the slatted unit and then lie in the straw along with the calves , hay shed is 45 x 22

i didnt bring up the silage harvester , what i had in mind was a teagele tommahawk , i dont know whether they are worth it though , thier up on 8k new afaik , just an idea

bob charles

there aren't much nutrients and OM in a cattle slats!

49801

we've the sucker cows on slats and it works very well.

only trouble we have had is drying of inside and mastitus. Would not of been a problem if we had dry cow tubed them.

in the spring for calves we put straw on top of the slats and set up a creep area for them. again works very well.

only trouble is the mastitus and this is mostly from poor dry off and you would have the same if it was straw bedded.

Conflats

Well personally i'd go for the straw on the fact we have the machines to clean out the sheds and spread the fym, also we have a some tillage so it sorts the straw and disposal of the dung.

I dont like the slats for a few reasons (IMO)
1- the are expensive to buy and put in
2- the cost of agitating and spreading needs to be factored in
3- they seem cold even with the mats(which showed in research that cattle finished on them had more feet problems
4-i don't like the idea of young calves being near slats,

and another benefit of a straw shed is you can put stuff in it during the summer like can tip a few loads of grain or put some bales in it

bee_keeper

Conflats wrote: »

Well personally i'd go for the straw on the fact we have the machines to clean out the sheds and spread the fym, also we have a some tillage so it sorts the straw and disposal of the dung.

I dont like the slats for a few reasons (IMO)
1- the are expensive to buy and put in
2- the cost of agitating and spreading needs to be factored in
3- they seem cold even with the mats(which showed in research that cattle finished on them had more feet problems
4-i don't like the idea of young calves being near slats,

and another benefit of a straw shed is you can put stuff in it during the summer like can tip a few loads of grain or put some bales in it

its a different story when you dont have your own tillage

i reckon slats would become cheaper than straw after a few short years , paying someone to spread dung is every bit as expensive as slurry

blue5000

Conflats wrote: »

Well personally i'd go for the straw on the fact we have the machines to clean out the sheds and spread the fym, also we have a some tillage so it sorts the straw and disposal of the dung.

I dont like the slats for a few reasons (IMO)
1- the are expensive to buy and put in
2- the cost of agitating and spreading needs to be factored in
3- they seem cold even with the mats(which showed in research that cattle finished on them had more feet problems
4-i don't like the idea of young calves being near slats,

and another benefit of a straw shed is you can put stuff in it during the summer like can tip a few loads of grain or put some bales in it

You only have to handle slurry once. Look at all the times you handle straw

Bale it, maybe ted it if it's wet lift it on a trailer. lift it off a trailer and stack it in a shed (shed costs money too) lift it out of shed bed it, roll it out. muck it out into a heap load it into a spreader and finally spread it.

manjou

If you are going for a bedded shed why not use woodchip. It is cleaner than straw and soaks liquid alot better than straw.I use it in calving penss and in creep areas for calves and it works out alot cheaper than straw as it costs as much to deliver straw as it to buy it.Also less scours and infections since using it.

Conflats

blue5000 wrote: »

You only have to handle slurry once. Look at all the times you handle straw

Bale it, maybe ted it if it's wet lift it on a trailer. lift it off a trailer and stack it in a shed (shed costs money too) lift it out of shed bed it, roll it out. muck it out into a heap load it into a spreader and finally spread it.

every one to there own and all that i'm just saying its cheap for us we have a baler which owes nothing, sheds which have long being paid for spreaders etc all old but do the job all it costs is the price of fuel and time and sure have plenty of that,
as i said it suits us with the tillage and dung is alot more nutrient rich for tillage than slurry to me down to the fact its easy spread,

there is uses for both on farms but i think for cows and calves straw is best you can make a makeshift pen on it if you run out of space for fresh calved cows or if a cow calves early it would be easier on the calf,

also with the prices of concrete(i know its cheaper now) steel etc how long will it take to pay off a loan (if needed) with sucklers? the price may be good this year but i wouldnt be planing on expensive infrastructure without some form of a business plan to actually justify the need for it i.e are the cows actually providing a profit etc

Username John

bee_keeper wrote: »

i have a descision to make with an existing three link hay shed , i could dig out tanks ( height is no problem ) as i have near twenty foot from front to back or i could simpley straw bed the shed

plan to use the shed for twenty five suckler cows , i have enough room for a small creep behind slats or could simpley leave everything loose in a straw shed

the question is whether straw is too expensive compared to slats , i reckon slats would pay for themselves in comparison to straw in a relativley short space of time as you would surely use close to 200 bales over a winter at an average cost of 15 euro = 3000 euro per winter on bedding , i cant see a three bay slatted tank costing any more than fifteen grand , another five would easily put in a small creep behind so thats 20 k ( probabley less )

six years and the slats would have paid for themselves , only thing is , some say that straw is better for cattle performance and perhaps the idea of suckler cows lieing on slats is a bad idea and would effect longevity

Hi Bee_keeper,
Firstly - I don't have cattle, and know little about em.

But I have been following this thread - and it seems that you are in an very good position. The slatted house is beside the old hayshed - so this winter you could fit out two bays/links of the hayshed, straw-bed it, and give the cattle access to it.
This way - you could see how it works out - and the only cost would be the straw + whatever gates/fitting you would need to do.

I don't know enough the figures of space required for cattle + how much straw would be used. But what sort of floor does the hayshed have now? As this will have a big impact the amount of straw used.

I would be very careful as someone mentioned already, that cattle cant get at the straw in the third bay, and pull it down on themselves.

The advantage of doing this - is you can see what the straw bedding is like - to me it seems like a win-win situation.
- You already have the shed, and the costs of setting it for cattle would be minimal (compared to putting in a tank)
- The thrive / health benefits could be assessed this winter, so you could see what the additional benefits straw might bring
- You could also see how much straw you would use, and then see be able to compare figures properly
- You could see next Spring / Summer how the dung suits you - if you have a reseeding program, the dung would be very good for this. But even if you don't, the dung would still be great for grassland.

To me it would seem like the best of both worlds... but like I say - dont have cattle..

That's my two-cents...

bee_keeper

manjou wrote: »

If you are going for a bedded shed why not use woodchip. It is cleaner than straw and soaks liquid alot better than straw.I use it in calving penss and in creep areas for calves and it works out alot cheaper than straw as it costs as much to deliver straw as it to buy it.Also less scours and infections since using it.

can woodchip be used as manure upon cleaning out the shed ?

bee_keeper

Username John wrote: »

Hi Bee_keeper,
Firstly - I don't have cattle, and know little about em.

But I have been following this thread - and it seems that you are in an very good position. The slatted house is beside the old hayshed - so this winter you could fit out two bays/links of the hayshed, straw-bed it, and give the cattle access to it.
This way - you could see how it works out - and the only cost would be the straw + whatever gates/fitting you would need to do.

I don't know enough the figures of space required for cattle + how much straw would be used. But what sort of floor does the hayshed have now? As this will have a big impact the amount of straw used.

I would be very careful as someone mentioned already, that cattle cant get at the straw in the third bay, and pull it down on themselves.

The advantage of doing this - is you can see what the straw bedding is like - to me it seems like a win-win situation.
- You already have the shed, and the costs of setting it for cattle would be minimal (compared to putting in a tank)
- The thrive / health benefits could be assessed this winter, so you could see what the additional benefits straw might bring
- You could also see how much straw you would use, and then see be able to compare figures properly
- You could see next Spring / Summer how the dung suits you - if you have a reseeding program, the dung would be very good for this. But even if you don't, the dung would still be great for grassland.

To me it would seem like the best of both worlds... but like I say - dont have cattle..

That's my two-cents...

very good post , thank you

i could actually use all three links of the hayshed and keep the straw outside , i once went to a farm where the farmer rather than build a hay - straw shed , wrapped his bales of straw , the bales cost an extraw four euro for plastic and wrapping but he was able to keep the bales outside , probabley wouldnt be a good idea over a long time but would do for a winter untill you decided what to do

Username John

bee_keeper wrote: »

very good post , thank you

i could actually use all three links of the hayshed and keep the straw outside , i once went to a farm where the farmer rather than build a hay - straw shed , wrapped his bales of straw , the bales cost an extraw four euro for plastic and wrapping but he was able to keep the bales outside , probabley wouldnt be a good idea over a long time but would do for a winter untill you decided what to do

If you had 3 links - then would you consider putting in a creep for calves?
Would this allow you to keep one place 'very clean freshly bedded' with straw for the calves, and then allow the rest of the straw shed to be 'not as clean' It might save on the straw costs over the winter.
Just a thought

Hmmm, storing bales of straw...
Well, for one winter - could you stack the straw bales and just get some big tarpaulin to put over them? Again - not a good idea long term, but for one winter, it might work out.
(I have seen this done in a few places - and when I saw see, I mean when driving around and being nosey, looking in over the ditches at what other people are doing)

As I assume you are going to buy the straw - maybe it would be possible to get it in two smaller loads, so it can stay in the buyers shed for longer? You'd have to see how that would work out financially though.

How many round bales would you need I wonder?
Some people store round bales of hay outside, people on here have commented they do it - as long as they are not touching each other I think its ok, as the rain can run off them. But they might take up a lot of space. But I havent done it myself, or seen it done...

Sorry OP - gone a bit off topic maybe...

As an aside - are you actually a beekeeper?

yellow50HX

Username John wrote: »

Hi Bee_keeper,
Firstly - I don't have cattle, and know little about em.

But I have been following this thread - and it seems that you are in an very good position. The slatted house is beside the old hayshed - so this winter you could fit out two bays/links of the hayshed, straw-bed it, and give the cattle access to it.
This way - you could see how it works out - and the only cost would be the straw + whatever gates/fitting you would need to do.

I don't know enough the figures of space required for cattle + how much straw would be used. But what sort of floor does the hayshed have now? As this will have a big impact the amount of straw used.

I would be very careful as someone mentioned already, that cattle cant get at the straw in the third bay, and pull it down on themselves.

The advantage of doing this - is you can see what the straw bedding is like - to me it seems like a win-win situation.
- You already have the shed, and the costs of setting it for cattle would be minimal (compared to putting in a tank)
- The thrive / health benefits could be assessed this winter, so you could see what the additional benefits straw might bring
- You could also see how much straw you would use, and then see be able to compare figures properly
- You could see next Spring / Summer how the dung suits you - if you have a reseeding program, the dung would be very good for this. But even if you don't, the dung would still be great for grassland.

To me it would seem like the best of both worlds... but like I say - dont have cattle..

That's my two-cents...

good points, seems like you can see how this works out this winter and that would give you a good idea for what would be needed in the long term. As for storing bales outside, id be wary. the outside of the bale will be waste but if its baled well then the inside will stay dry and can be used for bedding. We also use the straw for feeding but only with bales stored inside. my dad used to store bales on pallets outside 3 high with an old silage cover over it when he was stuck for space. fine till it gets stormy. Have seen a few lads stack the bales in a pyrmaid and put the sheet over them. If the sheet punctires the water can then run off the bales. ols pallets are great for keeping them off the grond and keep them dry. We use the pallets even when storing inside.

I assume you have a concrete floor in the hay shed?

bee_keeper

Username John wrote: »

If you had 3 links - then would you consider putting in a creep for calves?
Would this allow you to keep one place 'very clean freshly bedded' with straw for the calves, and then allow the rest of the straw shed to be 'not as clean' It might save on the straw costs over the winter.
Just a thought

Hmmm, storing bales of straw...
Well, for one winter - could you stack the straw bales and just get some big tarpaulin to put over them? Again - not a good idea long term, but for one winter, it might work out.
(I have seen this done in a few places - and when I saw see, I mean when driving around and being nosey, looking in over the ditches at what other people are doing)

As I assume you are going to buy the straw - maybe it would be possible to get it in two smaller loads, so it can stay in the buyers shed for longer? You'd have to see how that would work out financially though.

How many round bales would you need I wonder?
Some people store round bales of hay outside, people on here have commented they do it - as long as they are not touching each other I think its ok, as the rain can run off them. But they might take up a lot of space. But I havent done it myself, or seen it done...

Sorry OP - gone a bit off topic maybe...

As an aside - are you actually a beekeeper?

seeing as the cows have a slatted shed to eat in , i thought i might leave the calves with the cows all the time , the hayshed will effectivley be a lieing area for calves and cows , seeing as its a spring calving system , its not as if it will be for that long , ive dry land so i see no problem in putting calves born the 1st of febuary to grass the 1st of march

on another note , how many suckler cows should a farm of fifty acres be able to carry

foreman450

Plus you would need a much bigger shed for cattle on straw. Imagine a slatted pen filled with 10 cows versus the same size pen with
straw under them. They would be up to their necks in it. You need much bigger area. If I was doing it I would put in scrapers at feeding barrier and a fairly big lying area. No doubt they would do better on straw or wood chips.

kboc

bee_keeper wrote: »

can woodchip be used as manure upon cleaning out the shed ?

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

bee_keeper

kboc wrote: »

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

how often do you need to replace - top up woodchip during the winter ?

bob charles

kboc wrote: »

the woodchip needs to break down probably for 12 months when taken out of shed initially. This is because the wood absorbs Nitrogen from the soil rather than giving Nitrogen to the soil.

at least 12 months and turned regularly, best to throw a couple of bags of urea into the heap to speed up the process. The carbon-nitrogen ratio will still be bananas if its just wood chip and dung mixed after 6 months.

Farmer Pudsey

Would be slow enough using woodchip in a shed. It tends to be wet as there will be no wind to dry it also you need a good layer for it to be effective. If you have gates/barriers you have to rise them, to keep above the chip. Also wood chip is not cheap and is another product that is related to the price of oil as straw is which is why it is getting expensive.

You also have to factor in the value of slurry I myself think that slurry used right more than covers the cost of spreading. If you have strawbedded sheds and want to empty during the winter you may need a dungstead which you now have to factor into the costs. Also ideally you will need to store the dung to let it rot down before you spread on grassland and all the nitrogen will be gone out of it

In the long term slats even with mats will work out the cheapest. At the moment you can get very competive quotes for slats and concrete work.