Clamped!

kildare.17hmr

He has some neck, nothing to stop you removing it and telling him to get ****ed. Typical behaviour from them, bullying woman. And its not a fine, private companies CANNOT fine anyone. Its a "removal fee"

dougie-lampkin

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Can somebody just clarify this for me:

My sister has a house in a private gated estate. To get in you need a key fob thing, my mother was parked in her space one day moving things into the house and got clamped. Would it have been legal for us to have removed the clamp? The man told my mother that it was a criminal offence to not pay the fine and that he car would be impounded later that day if she did not pay up.

Absolutely legal to remove it without repercussion, the only iffy part is if you damage the clamp in the process. A private company cannot enforce a fine, since they don't have your contact information (and for them to get your info would be a serious breach of your data protection rights). This is why they clamp you, to ensure you can't just drive away and tear up their poxy fine. And this is extortion.

You should be so lucky for them to impound your car, that moves it from a grey road traffic offence into a criminal justice offence. If they steal your car and demand payment to return it, it's no longer a civil matter.

frozenfrozen

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

He has some neck, nothing to stop you removing it and telling him to get ****ed. Typical behaviour from them, bullying woman. And its not a fine, private companies CANNOT fine anyone. Its a "removal fee"

Oh and since it's a removal fee to pay for the service of removing it, if I were to remove it myself there would be no need for the service. Could I then charge a delivery fee to bring the clamp to them? Maybe to the tune of a few hundred euros?

fasttalkerchat

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Oh and since it's a removal fee to pay for the service of removing it, if I were to remove it myself there would be no need for the service. Could I then charge a delivery fee to bring the clamp to them? Maybe to the tune of a few hundred euros?

Only if they agreed to that "service" You should call and ask what they want you to do with the clamp. That way they cant accuse you of stealing it.

God Father

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Everytime I've spotted a clamper around Naas since Tuesday I've given him the thumbs up in the hope that it was him.....:D

oh yeah? me to, only with this banging on the radio:

:cool::pac:




I kid, i'm actually a little paranoid now, keep expecting the car to be clamped coming back to carparks purely for revenge

MugMugs

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The man told my mother that it was a criminal offence to not pay the fine and that he car would be impounded later that day if she did not pay up.

Let them take it.

"Hi Gardai, I'd like to report a theft...."

kildare.17hmr

frozenfrozen wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

He has some neck, nothing to stop you removing it and telling him to get ****ed. Typical behaviour from them, bullying woman. And its not a fine, private companies CANNOT fine anyone. Its a "removal fee"

Oh and since it's a removal fee to pay for the service of removing it, if I were to remove it myself there would be no need for the service. Could I then charge a delivery fee to bring the clamp to them? Maybe to the tune of a few hundred euros?

Put a sign on your sistera house stating just that and sure it has the sane legal standing as their signs in the eatate! Just on that note if your sister and a few other residents put up signs saying any clamped vehicle will have clamps removed with a big bolt cutters you would be with in your rights once the signa are visable. my advice if going to do this in a private estate, put your sign right next to theirs! They take pics of their signs when they clamp a car so no chance of them missing yours

frozenfrozen

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Only if they agreed to that "service" You should call and ask what they want you to do with the clamp. That way they cant accuse you of stealing it.

What about the allowing somebody to touch my wheel service?

If I came back to my car and there was no clamp what would happen?
I hear there's an angry man running around taking off clamps around limerick.....

Surely they would have to prove that the clamp was taken by me!

TestTransmission

What if you got clamped and they damaged an alloy?What happens then?

pred racer

TestTransmission wrote: »

What if you got clamped and they damaged an alloy?What happens then?

They'd deny it imo, and say good luck proving it!

MugMugs

pred racer wrote: »

They'd deny it imo, and say good luck proving it!

Would the big yellow clamp you didn't ask him to put on your wheel not be enough proof in the long run?

frozenfrozen

I think I may actually go through with the sign idea. If we had a sign saying something to the effect of "All clamps will be removed and we are not liable for any damage caused to them" would we be able to I don't know.. maybe get 6 -7 friends to park in there and destroy 6 -7 clamps?

I'm sure those things cost quite a bit of money for them to buy!

kildare.17hmr

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I think I may actually go through with the sign idea. If we had a sign saying something to the effect of "All clamps will be removed and we are not liable for any damage caused to them" would we be able to I don't know.. maybe get 6 -7 friends to park in there and destroy 6 -7 clamps?

I'm sure those things cost quite a bit of money for them to buy!

Now your gettin it!

frozenfrozen

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Now your gettin it!

Expect pictures and maybe some video in the following weeks

pred racer

MugMugs wrote: »

Would the big yellow clamp you didn't ask him to put on your wheel not be enough proof in the long run?

You know the type of people you are dealing with,

"dat bleedin mark woz dere before I touched it, not my fault mate"

It would be very difficult to prove, unless it was damage that could only have occured by putting a clamp on.

Id say it would be easier to appeal the clamp removal fee:D

Lazare

I got clamped in Naas by these guys about five years ago. I parked at the entrance to some apartments and went to grab a McDonalds.

I was literally five minutes, I called them and wasted another five mins pleading with them. So, I did the natural thing and went to the local hire shop and hired a bolt cutters for €20.

I spent about ten minutes squeezing with the cutters on the lock, huffing and puffing to raucous applause from passing traffic until finally I heard a snap. Yahooo thought I until I realised the snap I heard was the jaw of the bolt cutter breaking in two.

I had to pay the hire shop €80 for the damaged cutters and the clamptards €80 to set me free.

Crushing Defeat.

Fun though.

frozenfrozen

Lazare wrote: »

I got clamped in Naas by these guys about five years ago. I parked at the entrance to some apartments and went to grab a McDonalds.

I was literally five minutes, I called them and wasted another five mins pleading with them. So, I did the natural thing and went to the local hire shop and hired a bolt cutters for €20.

I spent about ten minutes squeezing with the cutters on the lock, huffing and puffing to raucous applause from passing traffic until finally I heard a snap. Yahooo thought I until I realised the snap I heard was the jaw of the bolt cutter breaking in two.

I had to pay the hire shop €80 for the damaged cutters and the clamptards €80 to set me free.

Crushing Defeat.

Fun though.

Should have hired a pair of cutters to get yourself out of the hire situation too!

Yawns

You would need permission of the property owner before putting signs up around the estate etc

However you can put a sign up on the drivers window when you park. They must affix a big label to your driver door informing you that you have been clamped so that you can't miss it. They will surely see your own sign and they take a pic of the sticker they place too.

Something like all clamps are placed at owners risk and will be removed. The owner of this vehicle accepts no responsibility to any damage caused during removal. All responsibility lies with clamp owner / operator.

If you wanted, you could also add a removal fee is incurred of €80 and a storage fee of €100 for every 24 hours or part therof after the first 24 hours of removal.

This was also mentioned to the guards who had no answer to it

"It's a civil matter now lads"

frozenfrozen

Yawns wrote: »

You would need permission of the property owner before putting signs up around the estate etc

However you can put a sign up on the drivers window when you park. They must affix a big label to your driver door informing you that you have been clamped so that you can't miss it. They will surely see your own sign and they take a pic of the sticker they place too.

Something like all clamps are placed at owners risk and will be removed. The owner of this vehicle accepts no responsibility to any damage caused during removal. All responsibility lies with clamp owner / operator.

If you wanted, you could also add a removal fee is incurred of €80 and a storage fee of €100 for every 24 hours or part therof after the first 24 hours of removal.

This was also mentioned to the guards who had no answer to it

"It's a civil matter now lads"

The house is in my sisters name so I presume she could put up the sign! But putting it on the car could be an easier option! I should setup a 5 euro per minute phone support line too while I'm at it and put them on hold when they call to get it back!

Yawns

Yawns wrote: »

You would need permission of the property owner before putting signs up around the estate etc

However you can put a sign up on the drivers window when you park. They must affix a big label to your driver door informing you that you have been clamped so that you can't miss it. They will surely see your own sign and they take a pic of the sticker they place too.

Something like all clamps are placed at owners risk and will be removed. The owner of this vehicle accepts no responsibility to any damage caused during removal. All responsibility lies with clamp owner / operator.

If you wanted, you could also add a removal fee is incurred of €80 and a storage fee of €100 for every 24 hours or part therof after the first 24 hours of removal.

This was also mentioned to the guards who had no answer to it

"It's a civil matter now lads"

I remember I seen a sign up here with something along the lines of that. Can't seem to find it now though

Although, one of them signs will be going on my driver window, and an angle grinder/power inverter (Can cut hardened steel lock is minute or so ) in the boot.

Something along the lines of this is what I might put onto my window?

By placing any object on this vehicle which immobilizes this vechicle, you agree with the following terms and conditions:
1. The owner of the vehicle will remove the immobilization object by any means necessary. The owner accepts no responsibility to any damages caused to the immobilization object [or part of] during and/or after the removal process. If damages occur, they are the entirely the fault of the person(s) who attached the item to the vehicle.
2. The immobilization object will be stored for one week. After which it will be disposed off. To organise the return of the immobilization object, please contact 087 XXXXXXX

Guy:Incognito

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The house is in my sisters name so I presume she could put up the sign! But putting it on the car could be an easier option! I should setup a 5 euro per minute phone support line too while I'm at it and put them on hold when they call to get it back!

Presumably the estate has a management company of some sort? If it does then your suster employes them , they decide things like employing clampers at meetings. So the owners decided to employ them. Maybe your mother should take up her grievances about being clamped with the peopel that employ the clampers (your sister)

Yawns

All well and good but watch out for revenue. You will be sure they will be notified that you will be charging for a service.

Better to leave out the money part and simply put in that all clamps will be removed etc then disposed of after 7 days of placing clamp if not collected. Please contact on 087 xxx to arrange collection.

Then you are in the same legal grey area that they are and they wouldn't have a chance in court as you are using their tactics back at them.

Our man in Havana

I would think the knuckle dragging clampers would simply ignore the notice.

Yawns

Yawns wrote: »

All well and good but watch out for revenue. You will be sure they will be notified that you will be charging for a service.

Better to leave out the money part and simply put in that all clamps will be removed etc then disposed of after 7 days of placing clamp if not collected. Please contact on 087 xxx to arrange collection.

Then you are in the same legal grey area that they are and they wouldn't have a chance in court as you are using their tactics back at them.

Good point! Will update when putting on car. No money will change hands (unless I demand they donate €100 or so to charity to get their clamp back? :pac: )

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I would think the knuckle dragging clampers would simply ignore the notice.

But if they ignore it, does that not mean that they haven't a leg to stand on if they were to call the Gardaí?

Since both the clampers and I both have the same authority?

Our man in Havana

The Gardaí would tend to side with the clampers. Gardaí are not always the brightest when it comes to matters like this.

Our man in Havana

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Gardaí would tend to side with the clampers. Gardaí are not always the brightest when it comes to matters like this.

But then it would go to court? Surely, the law is on my side? (I'm sure the clamping company would never let it go to court).

Edit:
Might be worth printing off the appropriate legislation and having a copy to show the Gardaí?

Yawns

The clampers will try anyway. They will call guards and attempt to claim they are right etc and what you are doing is illegal yadda yadda yadda . They of course won't let it get to court.

Our man in Havana

Edit:
Might be worth printing off the appropriate legislation and having a copy to show the Gardaí?

Yes.
Quote Section 113 Road Traffic Act 1961 to them. That should keep them quiet.

Our man in Havana

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Yes.
Quote Section 113 Road Traffic Act 1961 to them. That should keep them quiet.

Or Section 9 Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act, 1994.

Any person who, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, wilfully prevents or interrupts the free passage of any person or vehicle in any public place shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding £200.

“public place” includes—

(a) any highway,

(b) any outdoor area to which at the material time members of the public have or are permitted to have access, whether as of right or as a trespasser or otherwise, and which is used for public recreational purposes,

(c) any cemetery or churchyard,

(d) any premises or other place to which at the material time members of the public have or are permitted to have access, whether as of right or by express or implied permission, or whether on payment or otherwise, and

(e) any train, vessel or vehicle used for the carriage of persons for reward.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/sec0009.html

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0002/print.html#sec3

Our man in Havana

I wonder why no one has not made a complaint against the likes of NCPS for breaching S113 RTA 1961 or S9 CJA 1994?

Our man in Havana

Our man in Havana wrote: »

I wonder why no one has not made a complaint against the likes of NCPS for breaching S113 RTA 1961 or S9 CJA 1994?

Don't know.

However, the RTA was amended in 1984 to remove "public place". That means it doesn't apply I think.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0016/sec0003.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70125335&postcount=56

Edit
Actually, removing "public place" would that now mean that the law applied everywhere, and no one (without unlawful authority etc) can interfere with a stationary vehicle?

dellWlan

@kildare.17hmr

So aside from it getting physical what would've happened if the clampers arrived rather than the guards?

Is there anything they can do or try to do to stop you removing it?

Our man in Havana

The deletion of the words "public place" extends the section to cover everywhere making S113 applicable to private areas.

dellWlan

dellWlan wrote: »

@kildare.17hmr

So aside from it getting physical what would've happened if the clampers arrived rather than the guards?

Is there anything they can do or try to do to stop you removing it?

No. If them tried to stop they physically, that would constitute assault

fasttalkerchat

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't know.

However, the RTA was amended in 1984 to remove "public place". That means it doesn't apply I think.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0016/sec0003.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70125335&postcount=56

Beat me to it. Basically that is what created the grey area. I wonder is there any way that car park rules could ban you from doing any type of mechanical work on their property, this would stop you from removing a clamp (unless breaking the lock)

Our man in Havana

dellWlan wrote: »

@kildare.17hmr

So aside from it getting physical what would've happened if the clampers arrived rather than the guards?

Is there anything they can do or try to do to stop you removing it?

Nope.

You are into the realms of assault and GBH if they did anything.

Our man in Havana

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Beat me to it. Basically that is what created the grey area. I wonder is there any way that car park rules could ban you from doing any type of mechanical work on their property, this would stop you from removing a clamp (unless breaking the lock)

That would be a civil matter. Gardaí could do nothing if you removed a clamp.

kildare.17hmr

dellWlan wrote: »

@kildare.17hmr

So aside from it getting physical what would've happened if the clampers arrived rather than the guards?

Is there anything they can do or try to do to stop you removing it?

They would have told us we were breaking the law and to stop, i would have asked which law exactly? And kept doing what i was doing. If things got physical and they started getting pushy the guards would have been called by us. Im not a small lad and the other lads who showed up were both bigger than me so it would not have come to that

mhigh86

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Anan1, to me this was a bit of crack and helpin out a young lad. It took 20 minutes to do the job but we were there for about an hour and a half talkin ****e and havin the crack. Not waisted time in my eyes. Like gary said they are bullies and some of the stories her prove that especially the one in this thread with the pregnant woman, thats just wrong!

We did get one over on the clampers because they rang the guards and were smug telling me they were on the way but what happened? We all had a joke about it and i have the clamp in the boot and no one got arrested.

Lucky we're not all as misserable as you but i suppose there is always one

Dont mind that anal fellow, hes alway trolling, i used to think he was a angry garda, but found out he's actually a angry clamper......

Kent Brockman

In future send for this guy https://www.facebook.com/pieter.westfield

mhigh86

mhigh86 wrote: »

Dont mind that anal fellow, hes alway trolling, i used to think he was a angry garda, but found out he's actually a angry clamper......

I thought all the crap with Anan1 et al ended ages ago...

TestTransmission

mhigh86 wrote: »

Dont mind that anal fellow, hes alway trolling, i used to think he was a angry garda, but found out he's actually a angry clamper......

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought all the crap with Anan1 et al ended ages ago...

BUBBLE WRAP wrote: »

He is......... One of them!? :eek:

It did.Drop it now, or there will be infractions or bans if needed handed out.

mhigh86

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought all the crap with Anan1 et al ended ages ago...

Oh, i'll say no more, only started reading this thread today.:)

God Father

Our man in Havana wrote: »

The Gardaí would tend to side with the clampers. Gardaí are not always the brightest when it comes to matters like this.

After the clamp had been removed and the wheel put back on Gardai pull up:

"Lads was there a clamp on that wheel?"

"Well you better put it back on or your all getting arrested" :rolleyes:

mb1725

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA3MMb4IG7s

Pawwed Rig

Yawns wrote: »

All well and good but watch out for revenue. You will be sure they will be notified that you will be charging for a service.

Better to leave out the money part and simply put in that all clamps will be removed etc then disposed of after 7 days of placing clamp if not collected. Please contact on 087 xxx to arrange collection.

Then you are in the same legal grey area that they are and they wouldn't have a chance in court as you are using their tactics back at them.

You would also need to be registered for VAT

Seth Brundle

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

You would also need to be registered for VAT

incorrect

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/registration/index.html#reg2

Pawwed Rig

kbannon wrote: »

incorrect

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/registration/index.html#reg2

Fair enough. I need to study more.

Would depend how many times you were clamped then

Gary ITR

I'd never charge somebody for removing the a clamp..A charity donation would be nice though

Anan1

Stark wrote: »

Depends on the situation. If the OP was clamped by the council on a public road (ie: legally) then the OP's going to get into **** so the OP hasn't won anything. If the OP was clamped by a private clampers (ie: illegally) then good has been done by standing up against extornionists even if it was the OP's own fault that he came within their radar. I think the more people do this, the more chance that the private clampers will be forced to go the legislative route and we'll actually have some form of regulation.

We're all in favour of regulation, but the OP left their car for 20 minutes without a ticket. They therefore would presumably still have been clamped even by regulated clampers. The OP was clamped because they parked on private property without paying. This isn't standing up for the little guy, nor is it standing up to the big bad clampers. It's helping out the guy who took something without paying for it.