Not Quite Four Laps

KielyUnusual

Aye Ronnie, it was meant to be marathon pace but it's somewhere between that and tempo pace in reality. It's over a flattish 5 mile loop in Phoenix Park so I always end up a little above pace.

Friday

8.5 mile recovery run @ 7m37s/mile

Happy that my ankle is almost back to normal and I felt reasonably fresh on the run.

KielyUnusual

Saturday

21 miles (10.5 @ 7m48s/mile & 10.5 @ 7m26s/mile)

I was just thinking yesterday that since the Half Marathon I have hit all my key sessions spot on and exceeded my expectations in some. Well speak of the devil and he'll appear. Disaster of a long run. Was meant to be the same as two weeks ago when I did one half easy and the second half at marathon pace.

Today's session was off from the start. The first loop went okay I thought but I was expecting to be going at 7m20s pace and was shocked when I saw how much slower my pace was. The marathon pace section was a struggle from the start. I just felt really weak. I gave up after 5 miles when I knew I wouldn't be able to finish it off. Ambled home at a very easy pace and I was freezing even though it was quite sunny and it was shining directly on me.

Number of reasons I think that today worked out badly. I had a very light dinner last night after a day where I was piling about town on my feet for about 3 or 4 hours with a little cycling thrown in. I didn't take any gels. I normally only take one at halfway but maybe it has more effect than I give it credit for. I was feeling a little lethargic from the very start and should have just adjusted my session rather than stubbornly sticking with it.

All said and done, it's the first of my key sessions that didn't work out. I used to have a lot more in previous marathon build ups. I got around 21 miles, whilst feeling really tired for the most of it so hopefully this will stand to me on the day.

ThePiedPiper

Don't stress it over that long run KU. A 22 mile run with 10 MP is a beast of a session, and you may actually have helped your marathon loads by backing off on this and not flogging yourself. It's very hard to get through a full programme, hitting all the long run goals. Have you another 20 miler next weekend before taper?

theboyblunder

RunForestRun wrote: »

Don't stress it over that long run KU. A 22 mile run with 10 MP is a beast of a session, and you may actually have helped your marathon loads by backing off on this and not flogging yourself. It's very hard to get through a full programme, hitting all the long run goals. Have you another 20 miler next weekend before taper?

+1

Off days (and even off weeks) are part of marathon training. Put it out of your mind - you have been flying recently. No more gains to be made, we just need to maintain fitness from here to the race.

KielyUnusual

Cheers tbb and RFR, it was a bit of a downer at the time but in retrospect I did the 21 miles at 7m3x average so it wasn't too bad a session. You're never going to hit every run exactly as planned so the odd one here and there isn't going to hurt. Back on track today so happy enough.

Sunday

Rest

Not planned but the Sunday afternoon drinks became Sunday evening drinks and I never got out for a recovery run.

Monday

2 mile w/u, (1600m X 5 off 3min), 1 mile w/d

5.35, 5.34, 5.37, 5.39, 5.32

Delighted with this session. I really gave it my all as it will probably be my last interval session before the marathon. When the first interval was under 5.40, I set a target of keeping this up. Cut it tight on the fourth but picked it up on the fifth and finished with some very tired legs.

KielyUnusual

Tuesday

8 mile @ ~7m30s/mile

Nice enjoyable recovery run around Drumcondra.

RFR, I'm not 100% sure what my long run strategy is at the moment. Thinking of doing an 11 mile PMP run tomorrow and then the 5/4/3/2/1 PMP run on Saturday. A few warm up laps either side of these and the pyramid session might even be considered a long run. Also at the back of mind, the thought of doing 26 miles at marathon pace in the final week of proper training has a certain correctness about it.

ThePiedPiper

Good stuff. You done the 5-4-3-2-1 before? I've never tried one of them, I know plenty of people who reckon they're a great ol session.

11 miles PMP in midweek perfect for the last hard midweek session. Mile or two of warm-up and down either side of the fast miles would be even better. My midweek stuff was a bit variable for this training cycle as a result of training with the club, usually it was between PMP and 10k pace, but the odd week there were 5k pace miles mid-session. Most of our group was doing DCM so I was out of sync a good bit with the group. You do nearly all your training on your own still, do you? Ever think of joining a club? With your current progression, you'd be very very welcome to any club.

KielyUnusual

I've not done the pyramid session before, no. I like the sound of it. It's a tough session but taken in parts, I hope it's fairly doable. I've been getting in the midweek PMP sessions for the last few weeks. I've accumulated a good few miles at marathon pace since the start of the cycle. Happy with this because it was one of the man aims I set out with.

I do all my sessions on my own but I've a few people that I do some of the easy miles and recovery runs with. Ideally this would be the other way round I suppose. Definitely going to join a club soon. I've been out of work for the past few months so it was handier for me to get out in the morning and get the running in. Starting a new job on Monday so I'll be up at 6 in the morning. I'll need to start doing my tough sessions in the evening so a running club will be a must. Thinking Raheny Shamrocks because they're the closest. Going to drop down some evening after work next week and see how feasible it is.

Have you any other races in sight now after your successful trip to Budapest?

ThePiedPiper

Yeah, nice to have the bit of company, whether it's on the tougher runs or the recovery, good either way. Joining the club a couple of years back has made a big difference to me, the enjoyment I get out of it I suppose.

No plans for running for the foreseeable. I'll be completely flat out with college from now til Christmas, and again from Feb-May, so I'm not planning anything over the winter or spring. I'll probably end up doing an August marathon and/or a November or December one next year, but Budapest was the last race for a few months. When I tried to combine work, college, normal life and training for London this year, I ended up fairly sick and rundown, so not doing down that road again. By the time the end of May rolls around, I'll be chomping at the bit.

Best of luck with the new job.

KielyUnusual

Wednesday

2 mile w/u, 11.5 miles @ 6m23s/mile, 1 mile w/d

Very tough marathon paced session today after coming down with a cold over the past few days. Was considering giving it a miss but I didn't feel too weak despite a lot of sniffling and coughing. It was a struggle and I was sweating buckets towards the end. Had to stop at traffic with about 3 miles to go and was about to pack it in. I was just jogging back to the bike but once I got going, I managed to pick up the pace and finish it out. Lot of runners down in the park for a Wednesday morning. Starting to get a real sense of the marathon approaching now. Hopefully this cold clears up before the pyramid session I've scheduled for Saturday morning. Don't think I could manage that unless I'm 100%.

ThePiedPiper

Go easy on yourself KU. If you're still not 100% healthy by Saturday, ease back on the long run. You could do more harm than good at this stage doing a very hard session when your defences are down. Your build-up has been brilliant, a seriously fast marathon is in prospect already.

ray lanigan

RunForestRun wrote: »

Go easy on yourself KU. If you're still not 100% healthy by Saturday, ease back on the long run. You could do more harm than good at this stage doing a very hard session when your defences are down. Your build-up has been brilliant, a seriously fast marathon is in prospect already.

+1

Rolex_

RunForestRun wrote: »

Go easy on yourself KU. If you're still not 100% healthy by Saturday, ease back on the long run. You could do more harm than good at this stage doing a very hard session when your defences are down. Your build-up has been brilliant, a seriously fast marathon is in prospect already.

+1. Have a look at my race report KU on the 3 hr marathon thread if you haven't seen it. I'm just about over the cold that dogged me through Berlin 2 weeks ago. You've done the work - downside risk of a hard session unless you are 110% better far outweighs any potential benefit. Honestly don't think you should do anything hard this w/e with DCM only 2 weeks away

KielyUnusual

Thanks for the advice lads. I was stubbornly determined to get all the sessions done in what is my final week of proper training. I've been taking it easy over the past few days and probably won't do the pyramid session this weekend. It's not as if I'm going to be making any major gains in the final two weeks as said. Rolex, I read your report from Berlin. It's always one of the major concerns when marathon training that you might come down with something just before the event proper. I was gutted for you when I read what happened.

KielyUnusual

Thursday & Friday

Rest

Gave the running a miss for a while I recuperated from a cold. Felt particularly ****ty on the Thursday.

Saturday

6.27 miles @ 7m16s/mile

The few days rest have seen me well and I was back down in Tipp for the weekend. Really attacked some of the hills around my place to get a proper tough work out. Enjoyed running in the countryside on a lovely cool sunny morning.

KielyUnusual

Sunday

6 miles @ 6m29s/mile

Very enjoyable evening run around Drumcondra. Going to have to get used to these as my morning runs are out the window for a bit.

ThePiedPiper

Good move taking it easy KU, I was getting a bit worried you were flogging yourself to death there this past week or two. A good 10 mile PMP session this Saturday might be a good final confidence booster. I suppose the key is keeping yourself ticking over, maintaining your intensity and speed, just reducing the mileage over the next couple of weeks.

KielyUnusual

Monday

8.17 miles @ 7m04s/mile

Steady run down to Raheny. God awful rainy miserable auld evening. Nothing else of note.

Yea RFR, I think the 12 mile MP run on the Wednesday was a bit of a mistake in retrospect. I was dying the day after with the cold.

A 10 mile MP run on the Saturday might be a decent idea. I normally make out a schedule at the start of the week but I've been very indecisive on how to approach these last two weeks as a lot of my normal runs can't be done in the evening. My lack of a Garmin is finally coming back to bite me.

How did you taper for your recent PB in Budapest?

ThePiedPiper

In the second last week before the race, I halved the distance of all the previous week's runs, but maintained the same intensity. So, for intervals, instead of 10 reps, I did 5, on the mid-week MP, I did 5 instead of 10, etc. And just a 10 mile MP run on the Saturday before the race. Weekly mileage was about 30-35 for that week. The week of the actual race, I just did 5 MP miles on the Wednesday and one or two easy days of about 4 miles. Damn all really. Felt good and fresh without getting stale.

KielyUnusual

That sounds like a good approach to the taper. I might try something similar myself. Was thinking of cutting down the mileage but keeping most of the running around marathon pace. I'll likely copy your last week completely. Sounds the business.

Rolex_

RunForestRun wrote: »

In the second last week before the race, I halved the distance of all the previous week's runs, but maintained the same intensity. So, for intervals, instead of 10 reps, I did 5, on the mid-week MP, I did 5 instead of 10, etc. And just a 10 mile MP run on the Saturday before the race. Weekly mileage was about 30-35 for that week. The week of the actual race, I just did 5 MP miles on the Wednesday and one or two easy days of about 4 miles. Damn all really. Felt good and fresh without getting stale.

Interested watching the discourse lads. Just completed a P&D plan which had quite few (? maybe too few) MP miles. Roughly how many MP miles did you both run per week over the last 2-3 months of your training cycle pre-taper? (apart from intervals which will obviously be faster than MP)

ThePiedPiper

Rolex,

It sort of varied from week to week, but I would estimate that there were at least 12 MP miles every week in that period. As it got closer to marathon date, there were more. In the last 2-3 weeks, there were probably closer to 19/20 miles per week. These would've been broken up as follows;

2-5 on the Wednesday MP/tempo session with the club, depending,
7-12 on the weekend long run,
1-3 on my recovery/easy runs, which usually were a progressive/pyramid easy pace, starting at 8:00 pace and maxing out at 1 mile at MP.

I look at MP as exact goal pace +- 15 seconds. As the goal was 6:45 pace, any miles between 6:30 and 7:00 were close enough. As it worked out in the marathon, the average pace was 6:44, quickest mile was 6:29 and slowest was 7:05.

I'm a big believer in plenty of miles at or near MP. It's what seems to work best for me in any case.

KielyUnusual

Rolex,

I just calculated my MP miles over the past 3 months as 106 in total. Over the last month or two, I've been doing a medium length PMP run in the middle of every week (8-12 miles). I've also included PMP miles in three of my longer runs, the most challenging being 11.5 at almost steady pace followed by 11.5 at marathon pace. I've found it very helpful and I can now run at marathon pace fairly intuitively. I do hear people being critical of P&D because of it's lack of PMP miles. I'd probably agree but then again I've never tried it.

Rolex_

Thanks lads, P&D only has 44 PMP miles in the whole programme. I think I'll be doing fewer miles overall next time but with more PMP miles in my programme

KielyUnusual

Tuesday & Wednesday

Bit of football on the Wednesday but that's about it

Thursday

2 mile w/u, 6 miles @ 6m21s/mile, 2 mile w/d

Good run on a lovely evening in Drumcondra. Felt good and my breathing was very relaxed. Quickened up the pace on the last two miles so I was a bit ahead of marathon pace in the end.

KielyUnusual

Friday

5 miles @ recovery pace

Saturday

2 mile w/u, 10 miles @ 6m17s/mile, 1 mile w/d

A final tough session for a bit of a confidence boost as per my new personal trainer's advice;) (Cheers RFR). Got a lift down to Phoenix Park and a bit of company for my warm up miles before getting in to what was meant to be a medium length marathon paced run. My legs were a little tired at first but from 6 or 7 miles in, I felt good and enjoyed it. The pace was a little quick for my liking but I was running on effort and the low mileage this week obviously had an effect. Just one or two easy days and a short MP run left and hopefully I'll be well set for the day.

ThePiedPiper

Good work KU... Your comfortable pace keeps getting better and better. All the hard work's done now, the marathon is going to be a very speedy lap of honour around Dublin. Enjoy the tapering.

KielyUnusual

Sunday

6 miles @ 7m05s/mile

This was a lovely run on the almost deserted Sunday morning streets of Drumcondra. I think I'm going to miss the daily run over the coming week but must be disciplined.

KielyUnusual

Monday

Rest

Tuesday

8.3 miles @ 7m15s/mile

Went for an hour long run along the coast in Clontarf for old times sake. Threw in some strides to keep things interesting. Thought my pace might have been a little quicker than it turned out. For some reason it always seems like I'm running faster when I run at night. Probably because I'm focussing on the path directly in front of me. Dreadfully worried about twisting my ankle on some poorly lit street.

KielyUnusual

Wednesday

A bit of 5 a side

Thursday

5 @ 6m28s/mile

A short marathon paced run to bring things to a conclusion training wise. Might go for a very short, very slow jaunt at the weekend but no more. Did this run after a feed of pasta and half a tin of roses. Ended up with about five simultaneous stitches and a stomach that was churning like a cement mixer.