Family sues Strava for cycling death.

Beasty

It was probably already in the previous version, but for the avoidance of doubt

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOUR ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES, WHICH GENERATE THE CONTENT YOU POST OR SEEK TO POST ON THE SITE (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CYCLING) CARRY CERTAIN INHERENT AND SIGNIFICANT RISKS OF PROPERTY DAMAGE, BODILY INJURY OR DEATH AND THAT YOU VOLUNTARILY ASSUME ALL KNOWN AND UNKNOWN RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE ACTIVITIES EVEN IF CAUSED IN WHOLE OR PART BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF STRAVA OR BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS. YOU ALSO EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT STRAVA DOES NOT ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INSPECTION, SUPERVISION, PREPARATION, OR CONDUCT OF ANY RACE, CONTEST, GROUP RIDE OR EVENT THAT UTILIZES STRAVA’S SITE.

from: http://app.strava.com/terms#warranties_disclaimer

Beasty

Jawgap wrote: »

EDIT: btw, I think it was Ryan Sherlock who introduced strava on here.......just sayin', that's all :-)

This was Ryan's first post mentioning it, although I have found one post by another user that pre-dates it

Interestingly it does link to a "competition" where Strava were sponsoring a hill climb. Don't think they were organising it though, and the web-link does suggest that insurance was in place

Cork24

My god I don't think strava came knocking at his door telling him his time was beating and he better get is as$ up on that bike and get racing !

I just couldn't stop laughing at this family..
I am sorry for the person who's ego ended up killing him but got to love the American mind frame of suing

Jawgap

Mis-directed anger over his death, I 'd say is the cause of the Strava being sued.

A loved one dying is a tragedy and it's only natural to want to lash out and blame someone - they might have been better served by a lawyer less willing to sue.

Guybrush T

Cork24 wrote: »

My god I don't think strava came knocking at his door telling him his time was beating and he better get is as$ up on

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

It's still ridiculous to sue them.

oflahero

Guybrush T wrote: »

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

An alternative definition for having been 'sherlocked'.

doozerie

Just in relation to the suggestion that this is purely American idiocy in action, I think we in Ireland are on shaky ground with that view.

We used to laugh at the "fat Americans", but Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We used to laugh at the "lazy Americans" who we considered utterly dependent upon their cars even to travel trivial distances. We can no longer point the finger at others in that respect.

We used to laugh at the "dumb Americans" and their "dumb and dodgy politicians". That was always optimistic of us but even the most blinkered of us would now need a brass neck to be willing to ignore our own politicians failings over many years now, and our willingness to re-elect them regardless.

We continue to laugh at the litigious culture in America even as more and more restrictions are applied here in Ireland often in response to the many, and often ludicrous, court cases taken by Irish people hoping to earn a wad of cash by exploiting loopholes in the law.

Etc., etc. The lawsuit in question is certainly ridiculous but it's also not uniquely American. Grief can make people do otherwise very odd things, though 2 years after the tragedy you'd hope that common sense would start to prevail. And of course when money is involved greed can make people do utterly stupid things, and Ireland has no shortage of greedy (or stupid) people.

Cork24

Guybrush T wrote: »

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

It's still ridiculous to sue them.

Why didnt he just drive down the hill with a car, I have seen crazy times on some of the Hills they have to be in a car just going slow..

Lusk Doyle

doozerie wrote: »

Just in relation to the suggestion that this is purely American idiocy in action, I think we in Ireland are on shaky ground with that view.

We used to laugh at the "fat Americans", but Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We used to laugh at the "lazy Americans" who we considered utterly dependent upon their cars even to travel trivial distances. We can no longer point the finger at others in that respect.

We used to laugh at the "dumb Americans" and their "dumb and dodgy politicians". That was always optimistic of us but even the most blinkered of us would now need a brass neck to be willing to ignore our own politicians failings over many years now, and our willingness to re-elect them regardless.

We continue to laugh at the litigious culture in America even as more and more restrictions are applied here in Ireland often in response to the many, and often ludicrous, court cases taken by Irish people hoping to earn a wad of cash by exploiting loopholes in the law.

Etc., etc. The lawsuit in question is certainly ridiculous but it's also not uniquely American. Grief can make people do otherwise very odd things, though 2 years after the tragedy you'd hope that common sense would start to prevail. And of course when money is involved greed can make people do utterly stupid things, and Ireland has no shortage of greedy (or stupid) people.

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

If it was a case taken in Ireland the comments may have been more in line with yours above. But, I'd wager that any comments about how we have become x, y, z would be tied back into "like America".

It may not be fair, nice or otherwise, and unfortunately so. Human nature is to do just what we have just done in this thread. People in glass houses and all that but we are not talking about us, here; we are talking about them, there!

Lumen

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

If it was a case taken in Ireland the comments may have been more in line with yours above. But, I'd wager that any comments about how we have become x, y, z would be tied back into "like America".

It may not be fair, nice or otherwise, and unfortunately so. Human nature is to do just what we have just done in this thread. People in glass houses and all that but we are not talking about us, here; we are talking about them, there!

Just to be clear, your defence of lazy, pejorative cultural stereotypes is "human nature"?

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

Just to be clear, your defence of lazy, pejorative cultural stereotypes is "human nature"?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you properly there over the noise of the pub in which I'm drinking, surrounded by red haired little people river dancing. But, yes, in essence.

doozerie

Lusk Doyle wrote:

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

There was a time in Ireland when uttering the phrase "one expects", or using "one" as a pronoun at all, would have resulted in you being accused of being part of the regime that oppressed our ancestors and generally having been, like, jolly rotten towards them. We can be right cranky hoors in this country. Thankfully times have moved on, and many people have rid themselves of that particular chip on their shoulder, but we are also long overdue ridding ourselves of an illogical sense of superiority over Americans.

Besides, even if you look at it from a common sense approach we are a tiny little country, capable of no more than buzzing annoyingly round the ear of the US, and they have a plentiful supply of large rolled up newspapers to squish us with. When it comes to picking fights, we completely suck.

boege

Jawgap wrote: »

I know you're just presenting an alternative view, but by that logic the muppet who set up the boards.ie 'club' on Strava would be liable if someone on it spread themselves all over the road.......QUOTE]

Potentially if they can show it was an organised event, yes.

I read the article again, carefully, and they described it as a virual event. This tells you where they are going with their case.

smacl

Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We can be right cranky hoors in this country.

When it comes to picking fights, we completely suck.

So in summary, we're a bunch of fat, lazy, cranky hoors that couldn't fight our collective way out of a wet paper bag. My Erse! Try friendly, proud, keen witted, cynical and just a bit too handy with a pint taken.

We are also long overdue ridding ourselves of an illogical sense of superiority over Americans

To what end? They clearly consider themselves superior to every other nation on the planet, but it doesn't appear to be a widely held view outside the good old US of A. Any country bringing us Barney, George W Bush, McDonalds, the War on terror, and Friends deserves to be treated with some serious suspicion in my book.

Ireland's not so bad. Really. Happy midsummers day to y'all

buffalo

smacl wrote: »

Any country bringing us Barney, George W Bush, McDonalds, the War on terror, and Friends deserves to be treated with some serious suspicion in my book.

At least they only elected him twice. How many times did Bertie get in? Not to mention Haughey. In the current batch we've got Michael Lowry, and we can probably now add Mick Wallace.

They gave us McDonalds, we created SuperMacs and Abrakebabra. I know which one I prefer!

It's SuperMacs, garlic and cheese fries after a night out... hoghmmm...

Jawgap

Yeah, what have the Americans ever done for us, leaving aside Intel, HP, a pharma industry, keeping Shannon going etc?

When the USS Enterprise (the aircraft carrier, not the Picard / Kirk ship) pulls into Dublin Bay in September, it's difficult not to be impressed with a country that can afford that kind of utter waste.

Anyway, a country that gave us the Sopranos, the West Wing, d'interwebs, the atom bomb, toilet paper and Oreos can't be all that bad, can it?

And we did give them Robbie Keane......

As for post drink treats - there really is nothing to beat the simple pleasure of shaving a kebab from your face the next morning - the mark of a good night out:D

smacl

Very few countries that are proud of their political leaders, it's not just the cream that floats to the top. However, if it came to blows, Dustin would snot Barney no bother to him. And mines a kebab thanks, though I'd go an Iskanders rather than risk an Abra. Supermacs if I'm beyond the pale.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

I know you're just presenting an alternative view, but by that logic the muppet who set up the boards.ie 'club' on Strava would be liable if someone on it spread themselves all over the road.......

boege wrote: »

Potentially if they can show it was an organised event, yes.

I read the article again, carefully, and they described it as a virual event. This tells you where they are going with their case.

Hah! Hate to be that fool......


......oh wait!

Bruthal

buffalo wrote: »

At least they only elected him twice.

They didn`t have the option of electing him for a third term in a row.

buffalo

robbie7730 wrote: »

They didn`t have the option of electing him for a third term in a row.

THE SYSTEM WORKS!

Bruthal

buffalo wrote: »

THE SYSTEM WORKS!

Yea, but the people might have elected him a third time, given the chance. So it was not the peoples wisdom that prevented it, but a rule from the 40`s. Its a pity we didnt have it for bertie alright.

TheBlaaMan

Well, its only an opinion, but this is an interesting view on the suit that is being brought upon Strava.

In essense - wait for it - ANYONE who posts a time on Strava is open to being sued both by a plaintiff injured trying to better the time AND BY STRAVA (countersuing for any loss they suffer) if they themselves are sued in the same action.

Strava's (older and) new T's & C's are explicting leaving this open as an option - if they wanted to, they could close off that loophole by a simple change in a clause in the T&C - they haven't done so.

Hmmmm....

Zen0

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Well, its only an opinion, but this is an interesting view on the suit that is being brought upon Strava.

In essense - wait for it - ANYONE who posts a time on Strava is open to being sued both by a plaintiff injured trying to better the time AND BY STRAVA (countersuing for any loss they suffer) if they themselves are sued in the same action.

Strava's (older and) new T's & C's are explicting leaving this open as an option - if they wanted to, they could close off that loophole by a simple change in a clause in the T&C - they haven't done so.

Hmmmm....

They'd wanna be pretty slow to be trying to beat me!

Gavin

boege wrote: »

I read the article again, carefully, and they described it as a virtual event. This tells you where they are going with their case.

They are going to sue them in Second Life !?

doozerie

smacl wrote:

So in summary, we're a bunch of fat, lazy, cranky hoors that couldn't fight our collective way out of a wet paper bag.

fat? Well, I've just finished my 5th meal of the day, not including snacks, which is a normal enough day for me but there isn't a pick on me so I have to assume that there is another me wobbling around somewhere growing fatter by the day. I think my other me has the fat requirement covered.

lazy? Well, it has taken me over a week to respond to your post, so...

cranky? F'ckn right I'm cranky. Grrr, etc.

crap fighters? Well I got mobbed by a shed load of midges while riding up Cruagh Road this evening. I tried my best to use my superior size and strength to fend them off yet here I sit with red blotches all over my arms and legs. I clearly lost.

Taking myself as representative of the Irish generally, I rest my case!

buffalo

MO'FO-ING BUMP

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/news/strava-countersues-family-of-william-flint-claiming-no-responsibility-in-cyclists-death_261902

The countersuit asserts that Flint Jr.’s death was due to his own negligence, and that Flint Jr. was, Strava claims, riding on the wrong side of the road and over the posted speed limit.

Flint Jr.’s GPS data indicated that he had been traveling 35 mph in a 25 mph zone.

thebouldwhacker

Only winner outa this is gonna be the solicitors.
It is such a sad case really. I understand where the family are coming from trying to find sense in a senseless death but I really can't see any good in it.
Too sad.

Lumen

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Only winner outa this is gonna be the solicitors.
It is such a sad case really. I understand where the family are coming from trying to find sense in a senseless death but I really can't see any good in it.
Too sad.

It's not sad, it's idiotic. The fact that the idiocy is to some unknowable extent driven by grief doesn't change that.

thebouldwhacker

I must disagree. Your logic being that actions must conform to a certain set of principles and therefore identifiable as being idiotic or not makes no sense.
I'm sure their basic argument is that if strava didn't exist he wouldn't have been riding in that way therefore their actions were a factor in his death. They are arguing that strava were active in encouraging such riding and thus became a contributing factor. Seems a logical argument at some level, if it wasn't the judge wouldn't have left it go to court in the first place.

The motive for going ahead with the law suit may have many factors, grief being one, a greedy lawer pushing the family into legal action to get a class action suit going in the near future and make millions maybe another, who knows.
I don't think them idiots because they are using the law to seek what they see as justice, thats the very reason for the existence of the legal system.
I know plenty of people who think strava and the use of it to race against people who you may never meet as idiotic. I certainly know others who view internet chat rooms as idiotic.
It's all relative.

DirkVoodoo

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

I must disagree. Your logic being that actions must conform to a certain set of principles and therefore identifiable as being idiotic or not makes no sense.
I'm sure their basic argument is that if strava didn't exist he wouldn't have been riding in that way therefore their actions were a factor in his death. They are arguing that strava were active in encouraging such riding and thus became a contributing factor. Seems a logical argument at some level, if it wasn't the judge wouldn't have left it go to court in the first place.

The motive for going ahead with the law suit may have many factors, grief being one, a greedy lawer pushing the family into legal action to get a class action suit going in the near future and make millions maybe another, who knows.
I don't think them idiots because they are using the law to seek what they see as justice, thats the very reason for the existence of the legal system.
I know plenty of people who think strava and the use of it to race against people who you may never meet as idiotic. I certainly know others who view internet chat rooms as idiotic.
It's all relative.

What justice? The man neglected his own safety, broke the speed limit and died as a result because he was chasing his own internet stardom.

His family obviously can't accept this and think that "someone has to pay!" and by that I mean financially.

America is a society plagued by a lack of personal responsibility, everything that happens to you *must* be the fault of someone else, even if the link is tenuous or non-existent. See "McDonald's hot coffee", "Burglar falling through skylight" and other tort cases for the ridiculousness of the society that has allowed this Strava case to bloom.

The only contributing factors I can see were speed and stupidity.