Family sues Strava for cycling death.

niceonetom

Family sues Strava website for cycling death.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Family sues Strava website for cycling death.

"They assume no responsibility. They don't put cones out".

Facepalm.

buffalo

Lumen wrote: »

"They assume no responsibility. They don't put cones out".

Facepalm.

I really hope if I die doing something stupid, my family don't try blame someone else.

On the other hand, if someone kills me with their car door, I really hope someone presses charges.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/biker_dies_ramming_into_car_n9e99lUXpaGXyKqg6mzOEM

Apparently he "peddled into the driver’s-side door". That's what I tend to do when I see a car door open, I cycle as fast as I can into it, see how badly I can injure myself. I ****ing hate newspaper accounts about cyclists' deaths. The short piece in the Times about the tragic accident in the club league mentioned how great modern helmets are. I have yet to read an article about a road death that mentions how fantastic seat belts or airbags are. It shocks me.

niceonetom

Lumen wrote: »

"They assume no responsibility. They don't put cones out".

Facepalm.

They're running races downhill on public roads without even putting cones out!

You have to imagine how this would sound in an American courtroom. To Americans. With an American level of understanding of cycling. And technology.

It's far from impossible that these eejits could win.

Jawgap

niceonetom wrote: »

Family sues Strava website for cycling death.

Probably explains the message they posted recently.....

"We know the rules. Laws and rules are created for our protection. Cycling, running and swimming are inherently dangerous and following the law, and common sense, when it comes to traffic, weather, or conditions,reduces our odds of getting hurt or hurting others. It’s as simple as that"

A terrible accident, but a bit of a stretch to blame Strava.

Personally, if something like that was to happen to me, I hope my family sue Garmin as well - they've a lot more money than Strava. Apart from that, I'd only ask that word 'idiot' not appear in my epitaph.

Captain Havoc

Moved from the camper van, probably deserves own thread.

ThisRegard

Any death is terrible, but I actually laughed at some of the comments quoted in that story, it reads almost like an Onion story.

smacl

In fact, another high profile accident is being tied to the website. The cyclist who killed a pedestrian in San Francisco's Castro District, according to prosecutors was tracking his time on Strava.

Interesting logic. If the cyclist had been tracking his time using pencil and paper, would they sue Faber Castell? :rolleyes:

Jawgap

I think in the second case the cyclist didn't help himself. Having hit the pedestrian he subsequently went online and was discussing it in a forum. He seemed more concerned about his helmet, than the guy he hit.

http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2012/04/05/was-cyclist-who-killed-pedestrian-reckless

Lusk Doyle

How brilliantly American!

This from the country in which someone tried to sue God!

Lawyers should get slapped with fines when frivolous lawsuits fail to discourage them from taking them on and wasting the courts time.

Lumen

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Lawyers should get slapped with fines when frivolous lawsuits fail to discourage them from taking them on and wasting the courts time.

Surely if they're no-win-no-fee then the lawyers pay already? Who will judge frivolity?

You could as easily blame insurers who settle too enthusiastically. There are some crazy personal injury settlements in Ireland.

hardCopy

Ridiculous suit, hope it gets thrown out.

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

Surely if they're no-win-no-fee then the lawyers pay already?

I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine that the cost of filing and all that still rests with the plaintiff. The fee for time of the lawyer, etc would be encapsulated in the no win, no fee. No?

Lumen wrote: »

Who will judge frivolity?

This guy.

Lumen wrote: »

You could as easily blame insurers who settle too enthusiastically. There are some crazy personal injury settlements in Ireland.

Ok. No problem. Consider it done!

thechanger

In the Tour de France there's a stage in the competition where a cyclist is crowned "King of the Mountains." William "Kim" Flint had captured that title in an amateur online race, speeding down a hill in Berkeley's Tilden Park and the 41-year-old engineer apparently died trying to keep his record.

This is brilliant. Apparently they got confused that the King of the Mountains is actually going up, not down. If only they watched some highlights.

cdaly_

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Lumen wrote: »

Surely if they're no-win-no-fee then the lawyers pay already?

I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine that the cost of filing and all that still rests with the plaintiff. The fee for time of the lawyer, etc would be encapsulated in the no win, no fee. No?

And then there's all of the defendant's costs for the plaintiff to pay also.

thebouldwhacker

First of all RIP.



I'm gonna sue Boards because it encouraged me to buy a shed load of bikes.
I'm going to sue 410 for making me think I look good in lycra.
I'm gonna sue hills
Corners and nasty bends with tricky kicks,
Potholes and cheap road repairs
I'm gonna sue punctured tubes
White bar tape............

I'M GONNA SUE THE EURO RULES

Lusk Doyle

thechanger wrote: »

This is brilliant. Apparently they got confused that the King of the Mountains is actually going up, not down. If only they watched some highlights.

Also, it's not an amateur online race. I'd like to see that one rebuked.

Jawgap

This strikes me as the equivalent of looking down a the barrel of a gun to see if it's loaded, then testing it by pulling the trigger - the resulting lawsuit should be against the bullet manufacturer for making them so fast.

Lawyers can take something like this on a contingency fee basis and the client can buy various insurance products to cover costs etc

RobertFoster

He was fatally injured when he suddenly braked to avoid a car and his bike flipped over.

That line made me cringe. Steep hills in general can scare the **** out of me. Climbing I worry my legs (or heart) will give out and I'll topple over. Descending I worry my brakes won't work or I'll hit a pothole/something and be thrown.

Suing Strava, on the other hand, is the same as suing a GPS receiver for driving into a river. Common sense is needed.

buffalo

RobertFoster wrote: »

suing a GPS receiver for driving into a river.

It's probably been done.

Lusk Doyle

RobertFoster wrote: »

That line made me cringe. Steep hills in general can scare the **** out of me. Climbing I worry my legs (or heart) will give out and I'll topple over. Descending I worry my brakes won't work or I'll hit a pothole/something and be thrown.

Suing Strava, on the other hand, is the same as suing a GPS receiver for driving into a river. Common sense is needed.

It's America.

That is all.

dave2pvd

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

It's America.

That is all.

Please note that the ultimate in freedom is being able to sue whomever you want, whenever you want for whatever you want*

And who is to say that America is so far out in front
when it comes to knee-jerk litigation? Huh? Looking at you, Ireland.


*then make a reality show about the experience.

kincsem

It's sad a cyclist died. I knew before clicking the link he was American. Is any American responsible for their own errors?

dave2pvd

kincsem wrote: »

I knew before clicking the link he was American. Is any American responsible for their own errors?

There are 311,591,900 of them, or thereabouts. So I know quite a few who are most responsible, upstanding individuals.

See, there's a difference between your media-reality and reality-reality.

Although, I have to say, I do enjoy the odd stereotype-rant myself now and then.

hardCopy

buffalo wrote: »

It's probably been done.

Yep, some American woman sued Google because she followed walking directions across a freeway. I believe she lost though.

Straatvark

...the appropriate time to listen to the song "who do you sue" from Koos Kombuis - available here: http://music.yahoo.com/koos-kombuis/tracks/

boege

Putting aside the humerous side of this claim there is a couple of points to note:

If they can prove Stava were actually organising an event then event organisors have been fair game in the past.

The people behind this claim often work on the basis that court cases, especially in the US, have huge uncertainty. This uncertainty represents a risk for Strava and all risk has a cost. Many companies settle under confindentiality for an amount in line with the risk involved. Better to pay out a modest amount than risk long oddds on a huge amount.

Not saying I agree with any of this but bet Strava will have a bunch of warnings and disclaimers on their web site, if not there already!

Lusk Doyle

boege wrote: »

Putting aside the humerous side of this claim there is a couple of points to note:

If they can prove Stava were actually organising an event then event organisors have been fair game in the past.

The people behind this claim often work on the basis that court cases, especially in the US, have huge uncertainty. This uncertainty represents a risk for Strava and all risk has a cost. Many companies settle under confindentiality for an amount in line with the risk involved. Better to pay out a modest amount than risk long oddds on a huge amount.

Not saying I agree with any of this but bet Strava will have a bunch of warnings and disclaimers on their web site, if not there already!

Aside from the distance challenges, where exactly does Strava arrange online races?

Jawgap

boege wrote: »

Putting aside the humerous side of this claim there is a couple of points to note:

If they can prove Stava were actually organising an event then event organisors have been fair game in the past.

The people behind this claim often work on the basis that court cases, especially in the US, have huge uncertainty. This uncertainty represents a risk for Strava and all risk has a cost. Many companies settle under confindentiality for an amount in line with the risk involved. Better to pay out a modest amount than risk long oddds on a huge amount.

Not saying I agree with any of this but bet Strava will have a bunch of warnings and disclaimers on their web site, if not there already!

I know you're just presenting an alternative view, but by that logic the muppet who set up the boards.ie 'club' on Strava would be liable if someone on it spread themselves all over the road.......

EDIT: btw, I think it was Ryan Sherlock who introduced strava on here.......just sayin', that's all :-)

Beasty

I see they have just updated their terms and conditions. I've not worked my way through them, but suspect there will be something to the effect that if Lusk Doyle dies trying to get one of my KOMs, then I will could be held responsible for setting a target he was incapable of achieving ...;)

smacl

Email this morning from Strava with updated terms and conditions, and the site is temporarily down for maintenance. Hmmm.

Beasty

It was probably already in the previous version, but for the avoidance of doubt

YOU EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT YOUR ATHLETIC ACTIVITIES, WHICH GENERATE THE CONTENT YOU POST OR SEEK TO POST ON THE SITE (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO CYCLING) CARRY CERTAIN INHERENT AND SIGNIFICANT RISKS OF PROPERTY DAMAGE, BODILY INJURY OR DEATH AND THAT YOU VOLUNTARILY ASSUME ALL KNOWN AND UNKNOWN RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THESE ACTIVITIES EVEN IF CAUSED IN WHOLE OR PART BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF STRAVA OR BY THE ACTION, INACTION OR NEGLIGENCE OF OTHERS. YOU ALSO EXPRESSLY AGREE THAT STRAVA DOES NOT ASSUME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE INSPECTION, SUPERVISION, PREPARATION, OR CONDUCT OF ANY RACE, CONTEST, GROUP RIDE OR EVENT THAT UTILIZES STRAVA’S SITE.

from: http://app.strava.com/terms#warranties_disclaimer

Beasty

Jawgap wrote: »

EDIT: btw, I think it was Ryan Sherlock who introduced strava on here.......just sayin', that's all :-)

This was Ryan's first post mentioning it, although I have found one post by another user that pre-dates it

Interestingly it does link to a "competition" where Strava were sponsoring a hill climb. Don't think they were organising it though, and the web-link does suggest that insurance was in place

Cork24

My god I don't think strava came knocking at his door telling him his time was beating and he better get is as$ up on that bike and get racing !

I just couldn't stop laughing at this family..
I am sorry for the person who's ego ended up killing him but got to love the American mind frame of suing

Jawgap

Mis-directed anger over his death, I 'd say is the cause of the Strava being sued.

A loved one dying is a tragedy and it's only natural to want to lash out and blame someone - they might have been better served by a lawyer less willing to sue.

Guybrush T

Cork24 wrote: »

My god I don't think strava came knocking at his door telling him his time was beating and he better get is as$ up on

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

It's still ridiculous to sue them.

oflahero

Guybrush T wrote: »

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

An alternative definition for having been 'sherlocked'.

doozerie

Just in relation to the suggestion that this is purely American idiocy in action, I think we in Ireland are on shaky ground with that view.

We used to laugh at the "fat Americans", but Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We used to laugh at the "lazy Americans" who we considered utterly dependent upon their cars even to travel trivial distances. We can no longer point the finger at others in that respect.

We used to laugh at the "dumb Americans" and their "dumb and dodgy politicians". That was always optimistic of us but even the most blinkered of us would now need a brass neck to be willing to ignore our own politicians failings over many years now, and our willingness to re-elect them regardless.

We continue to laugh at the litigious culture in America even as more and more restrictions are applied here in Ireland often in response to the many, and often ludicrous, court cases taken by Irish people hoping to earn a wad of cash by exploiting loopholes in the law.

Etc., etc. The lawsuit in question is certainly ridiculous but it's also not uniquely American. Grief can make people do otherwise very odd things, though 2 years after the tragedy you'd hope that common sense would start to prevail. And of course when money is involved greed can make people do utterly stupid things, and Ireland has no shortage of greedy (or stupid) people.

Cork24

Guybrush T wrote: »

Actually, they do. Or at least they send you an e-mail when someone knocks you off a KOM.

It's still ridiculous to sue them.

Why didnt he just drive down the hill with a car, I have seen crazy times on some of the Hills they have to be in a car just going slow..

Lusk Doyle

doozerie wrote: »

Just in relation to the suggestion that this is purely American idiocy in action, I think we in Ireland are on shaky ground with that view.

We used to laugh at the "fat Americans", but Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We used to laugh at the "lazy Americans" who we considered utterly dependent upon their cars even to travel trivial distances. We can no longer point the finger at others in that respect.

We used to laugh at the "dumb Americans" and their "dumb and dodgy politicians". That was always optimistic of us but even the most blinkered of us would now need a brass neck to be willing to ignore our own politicians failings over many years now, and our willingness to re-elect them regardless.

We continue to laugh at the litigious culture in America even as more and more restrictions are applied here in Ireland often in response to the many, and often ludicrous, court cases taken by Irish people hoping to earn a wad of cash by exploiting loopholes in the law.

Etc., etc. The lawsuit in question is certainly ridiculous but it's also not uniquely American. Grief can make people do otherwise very odd things, though 2 years after the tragedy you'd hope that common sense would start to prevail. And of course when money is involved greed can make people do utterly stupid things, and Ireland has no shortage of greedy (or stupid) people.

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

If it was a case taken in Ireland the comments may have been more in line with yours above. But, I'd wager that any comments about how we have become x, y, z would be tied back into "like America".

It may not be fair, nice or otherwise, and unfortunately so. Human nature is to do just what we have just done in this thread. People in glass houses and all that but we are not talking about us, here; we are talking about them, there!

Lumen

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

If it was a case taken in Ireland the comments may have been more in line with yours above. But, I'd wager that any comments about how we have become x, y, z would be tied back into "like America".

It may not be fair, nice or otherwise, and unfortunately so. Human nature is to do just what we have just done in this thread. People in glass houses and all that but we are not talking about us, here; we are talking about them, there!

Just to be clear, your defence of lazy, pejorative cultural stereotypes is "human nature"?

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

Just to be clear, your defence of lazy, pejorative cultural stereotypes is "human nature"?

Sorry, I couldn't hear you properly there over the noise of the pub in which I'm drinking, surrounded by red haired little people river dancing. But, yes, in essence.

doozerie

Lusk Doyle wrote:

That maybe true. However, the case is American and so one expects the comments that have been made to be made.

There was a time in Ireland when uttering the phrase "one expects", or using "one" as a pronoun at all, would have resulted in you being accused of being part of the regime that oppressed our ancestors and generally having been, like, jolly rotten towards them. We can be right cranky hoors in this country. Thankfully times have moved on, and many people have rid themselves of that particular chip on their shoulder, but we are also long overdue ridding ourselves of an illogical sense of superiority over Americans.

Besides, even if you look at it from a common sense approach we are a tiny little country, capable of no more than buzzing annoyingly round the ear of the US, and they have a plentiful supply of large rolled up newspapers to squish us with. When it comes to picking fights, we completely suck.

boege

Jawgap wrote: »

I know you're just presenting an alternative view, but by that logic the muppet who set up the boards.ie 'club' on Strava would be liable if someone on it spread themselves all over the road.......QUOTE]

Potentially if they can show it was an organised event, yes.

I read the article again, carefully, and they described it as a virual event. This tells you where they are going with their case.

smacl

Ireland now has its very own significant obesity problems.

We can be right cranky hoors in this country.

When it comes to picking fights, we completely suck.

So in summary, we're a bunch of fat, lazy, cranky hoors that couldn't fight our collective way out of a wet paper bag. My Erse! Try friendly, proud, keen witted, cynical and just a bit too handy with a pint taken.

We are also long overdue ridding ourselves of an illogical sense of superiority over Americans

To what end? They clearly consider themselves superior to every other nation on the planet, but it doesn't appear to be a widely held view outside the good old US of A. Any country bringing us Barney, George W Bush, McDonalds, the War on terror, and Friends deserves to be treated with some serious suspicion in my book.

Ireland's not so bad. Really. Happy midsummers day to y'all

buffalo

smacl wrote: »

Any country bringing us Barney, George W Bush, McDonalds, the War on terror, and Friends deserves to be treated with some serious suspicion in my book.

At least they only elected him twice. How many times did Bertie get in? Not to mention Haughey. In the current batch we've got Michael Lowry, and we can probably now add Mick Wallace.

They gave us McDonalds, we created SuperMacs and Abrakebabra. I know which one I prefer!

It's SuperMacs, garlic and cheese fries after a night out... hoghmmm...

Jawgap

Yeah, what have the Americans ever done for us, leaving aside Intel, HP, a pharma industry, keeping Shannon going etc?

When the USS Enterprise (the aircraft carrier, not the Picard / Kirk ship) pulls into Dublin Bay in September, it's difficult not to be impressed with a country that can afford that kind of utter waste.

Anyway, a country that gave us the Sopranos, the West Wing, d'interwebs, the atom bomb, toilet paper and Oreos can't be all that bad, can it?

And we did give them Robbie Keane......

As for post drink treats - there really is nothing to beat the simple pleasure of shaving a kebab from your face the next morning - the mark of a good night out:D

smacl

Very few countries that are proud of their political leaders, it's not just the cream that floats to the top. However, if it came to blows, Dustin would snot Barney no bother to him. And mines a kebab thanks, though I'd go an Iskanders rather than risk an Abra. Supermacs if I'm beyond the pale.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

I know you're just presenting an alternative view, but by that logic the muppet who set up the boards.ie 'club' on Strava would be liable if someone on it spread themselves all over the road.......

boege wrote: »

Potentially if they can show it was an organised event, yes.

I read the article again, carefully, and they described it as a virual event. This tells you where they are going with their case.

Hah! Hate to be that fool......


......oh wait!

Bruthal

buffalo wrote: »

At least they only elected him twice.

They didn`t have the option of electing him for a third term in a row.

buffalo

robbie7730 wrote: »

They didn`t have the option of electing him for a third term in a row.

THE SYSTEM WORKS!