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Store Detectives & Suspicion of Theft

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    #32
    Right 2B a liar
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Right 2B a liar


    I am guessing from this thread that a lot of people like Rage Against the Machine :D

    I think a miranda right type should be told to you by the SG, but what to call those rights :rolleyes:


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    #33
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Tom Young wrote: »
    There's a case or two on this. It's been covered off before. Search: Qualified Privilege.
    Sure, we can all accept that, but before demanding a search, doesn't there need to be some cause to have the search. Surely simply being female (and on the premises and not having bought anything) is insufficient.

    Yes, shoplifters in a clothing shop are more likely to be women, but that doesn't make every woman a shoplifter. Surely it would be more practical to ask people to deposit their bags from other shops at a left luggage counter.


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    #34
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    bubblypop wrote: »
    is the op allowed to name this store????
    Farcear wrote: »
    There is no store.

    It's a hypothetical scenario.

    Read the forum charter.
    It's not a hypothetical scenario; but I don't think that matters since no legal advice is being sought and there is no question of any litigious engagement with the company whatever.

    Because the practice is pretty unusual I'm fairly confident some users would already recognize the store in question; but I have no interest in naming it nor should I think do the mods!


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    #35
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    You're well within your rights to politely say no and leave. If they try to detain you you must have committed a crime that would give a sentence of a few years in prison (not sure of the exact number). If they try to hold you or lock you in an office its defamation of character, illegally holding you, assault etc.


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    #36
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Right 2B a liar wrote: »
    I am guessing from this thread that a lot of people like Rage Against the Machine :D

    I think a miranda right type should be told to you by the SG, but what to call those rights :rolleyes:
    Miranda warnings (only used in the USA) are more about admissibility of evidence than anything else. Sure, you're being informed of your rights - but not out of the kindness of the officer's heart. Because the Supreme Court ruled that evidence gained where the accused was unaware of their rights was inadmissible.


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    #37
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    Departed wrote: »
    i would have told him call the garda and have plenty of witnesses when the found nothing
    Paulw wrote: »
    They have no power of search. If you say no, they cannot force you to show the contents of your posession, and nor can they stop you from leaving the store.

    They can, of course, call the Gardai, if they suspect you of theft and follow you until the Gardai stop you.
    Paulw wrote: »
    It would be the store wasting Garda time, and you can continue on your way, while they wait for the Gardai. The store can't stop you from leaving.

    Next time, be polite, say no to being searched and just keep walking.

    Is this right then, If you refuse to be searched, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the store freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    They can only follow you out of store and point you out to a Garda who may or may not be interested in doing anything.

    Is this the same for a Luas inspector asking for your ticket?, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the luas freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    Once you are off the tram you are on public property and they have no power.


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    #38
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Is this right then, If you refuse to be searched, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the store freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    They can only follow you out of store and point you out to a Garda who may or may not be interested in doing anything.

    Is this the same for a Luas inspector asking for your ticket?, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the luas freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    Once you are off the tram you are on public property and they have no power.

    A security guard can use a citizens arrest to detain you if they are sure you committed an offence.

    There are seperate laws which cover the Luas and give power to ticket inspectors.


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    #39
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    Is this right then, If you refuse to be searched, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the store freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    They can only follow you out of store and point you out to a Garda who may or may not be interested in doing anything.

    Is this the same for a Luas inspector asking for your ticket?, they cannot detain you, so you are able to leave the luas freely, do you even have to acknowledge their presence?.

    Once you are off the tram you are on public property and they have no power.
    Even on private property they cannot detain you for not having a ticket. In the case of a robbery staff can detain you because that is a more serious offence.

    For some reason the statute book isn't throwing up any relevant documents. I want to say that the offence should be severe enough to have a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison but I'm not sure.


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    #40
    Departed
    Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Departed


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Miranda warnings (only used in the USA) are more about admissibility of evidence than anything else. Sure, you're being informed of your rights - but not out of the kindness of the officer's heart. Because the Supreme Court ruled that evidence gained where the accused was unaware of their rights was inadmissible.
    who cares about why you are told your rights as long as you are. if criminals have the right to miranda why not innocent


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    #41
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    MagicSean wrote: »
    A security guard can use a citizens arrest to detain you if they are sure you committed an offence.

    There are seperate laws which cover the Luas and give power to ticket inspectors.

    What happens then if you have nothing on you? or if you have a receipt, or in the luas case if you have a ticket?


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    #42
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Departed wrote: »
    who cares about why you are told your rights as long as you are. if criminals have the right to miranda why not innocent
    Neither myself nor this thread are interested in the goings on of US criminal procedure and evidence. If you want to discuss the procedure in Ireland regarding the Judges' Rules then you are free to do so. Otherwise it's miles off topic.


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    #43
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    the culture of deference wrote: »
    What happens then if you have nothing on you? or if you have a receipt, or in the luas case if you have a ticket?

    You could consider a civil case against the security guard. I don't know the specific laws for the Luas so I don't know what they can do.


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    #44
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    in France and Germany they ask to look at your bags going into some stores, so you have a choice. seems like bullyboy tactics, like drugs...just say no!

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #45
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    silverharp wrote: »
    in France and Germany they ask to look at your bags going into some stores, so you have a choice. seems like bullyboy tactics, like drugs...just say no!

    This happened me in France. When I was at the tills I went to open my bag to get my wallet and they had cable tied the zip! I thought one of the lads had done it at first then noticed that everyone had them. I had to go over to the exit to get the security guard to remove it then go back in to pay so defeated the purpose.


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