Do you find these billboards offensive?

tiny_penguin

Zulu wrote: »

Quite, however if adoption wasn't availed of, the parents are legally obliged to look after the helpless child.

That is their choice - they have chosen to look after the child. They have the choice to hand that child to someone else which is why it is different from abortion. When you are pregnant you do not have the choice to hand the pregnancy to someone else therefore continuing it is forced upon you.

Shenshen

Malari wrote: »

Consent was given for pregnancy? No, it was given for sex. Not at all the same thing. Don't have sex (because let's face it that's the only 100% way to be sure) or deal with the consequences of your body being used as a life support system. You deserve it because you had sex. Sickening.

I especially like the "Unless you didn't enjoy it because you were raped. You might be able to be allowed to escaped punishment then, we'll see about that" bit.

sbsquarepants

Shenshen wrote: »

Consent to have sex =/= consent to pregnancy.

This is a point that seems to be lost on the pro life (i hate that stupid name!) group. The VAST majority of times any average person has sex - they are in no way consenting to having a baby. Yes it's a possibility but that's not the same thing, every time i get on a plane i don't consent to hitting a mountain at 700mph, it's possible yes - but consent, absolutely no.

blacklilly

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is a point that seems to be lost on the pro life (i hate that stupid name!) group. The VAST majority of times any average person has sex - they are in no way consenting to having a baby. Yes it's a possibility but that's not the same thing, every time i get on a plane i don't consent to hitting a mountain at 700mph, it's possible yes - but consent, absolutely no.

Number one, just becuase of my anti-abortion views does not mean I am affiliated to any particular group.

Please tell me why so many people will depend solely on one form of contraception or none at all if they do not wish to have a baby. I know women who have had 1, 2 and 3 abortions and these women continue to use one form of contraception.

In countries where abortion is legal, it was originally allowed on the basis of the mothers life being threatned, however it is now used as a fall back when contraception fails. I'm sure you are all aware of the recent documentaries regarding this issue in the UK for example.

robp

sbsquarepants wrote: »

This is a point that seems to be lost on the pro life (i hate that stupid name!) group. The VAST majority of times any average person has sex - they are in no way consenting to having a baby. Yes it's a possibility but that's not the same thing, every time i get on a plane i don't consent to hitting a mountain at 700mph, it's possible yes - but consent, absolutely no.

Adults are responsible for their actions. Unfortunately there is no way around that. Their are plenty of cheap ways to avoid pregnancy in this day and age. If the worse comes to worst adoption is always there for those who want it. There is little risk of unwanted children, provided she isn't pressured into not adopting by friends or family.

Shenshen

blacklilly wrote: »

Number one, just becuase of my anti-abortion views does not mean I am affiliated to any particular group.

Please tell me why so many people will depend solely on one form of contraception or none at all if they do not wish to have a baby. I know women who have had 1, 2 and 3 abortions and these women continue to use one form of contraception.

In countries where abortion is legal, it was originally allowed on the basis of the mothers life being threatned, however it is now used as a fall back when contraception fails. I'm sure you are all aware of the recent documentaries regarding this issue in the UK for example.

Why do people drink and drive?
Why do people go bungee-jumping?
Why do people do drugs?
Why do people get onboard boats without knowing how to swim?


People are not rational, and people will behave in ways that will allow accidents to happen.
Do we therefore refuse them medical attention once the accident has happened?
Do we refuse them transfusions and medications that could go to people who acted less stupidly? Do we refuse them the time and research that might get them out of a wheelchair? No.
But some people happily pretend that engaging in sex must mean that the persons involved agreed to all potential outcomes, and therefore should be forced to endure whatever might happen to them.

Incidentally, figures show that abortion being legal or illegal has no bearing whatsoever on the numbers of abortions in any one country. The only difference is that in places where it is available legally, women aren't forced to consult dubious doctors and questionable institutions.

Malari

blacklilly wrote: »

Number one, just becuase of my anti-abortion views does not mean I am affiliated to any particular group.

Please tell me why so many people will depend solely on one form of contraception or none at all if they do not wish to have a baby. I know women who have had 1, 2 and 3 abortions and these women continue to use one form of contraception.

In countries where abortion is legal, it was originally allowed on the basis of the mothers life being threatned, however it is now used as a fall back when contraception fails. I'm sure you are all aware of the recent documentaries regarding this issue in the UK for example.

And many people do use at least one form of contraception to avoid becoming pregnant. Do you think it should be gauged on how careful you were?

Zulu

Shenshen wrote: »

The law doesn't force them.

So there are no criminal acts with respect to neglect? Interesting.

If you fall ill tomorrow and need a blood transfusion, do you have the right to force people with a matching blood type to give their blood to you?

It's a nice straw-man you are building, but it is a strawman none the less.

Malari wrote: »

You deserve it because you had sex. Sickening.

No one has said that Malari. Please don't put words in my mouth - I've extended this courtesy to you, I'd appreciate it if you could extend the same courtesy in return.

Shenshen wrote: »

I especially like the "Unless you didn't enjoy it because you were raped. You might be able to be allowed to escaped punishment then, we'll see about that" bit.

W.T.F. Seriously, what. the. fuck. No one has said that. Making shit up & engaging in back-slappery might make you feel validated, but it doesn't strengthen your point at all.

dharma200

The Youth Defense offend me. The whole idea of abstinance education is laughable (see stats from Texas state in America....)
The fact they are the youth right wing extremist group who are part of the biggest organised paedophile ring in the world ever, ofcourse they wouldn't advocate abortion, where the hell will all the vulnerable children come from then eh....
Youth defense are brainwashed fundamentalists. And the fact they seem to be able to get insidious advertising in our second level school systems books, along with their placard waving gruesome pictures in my young childrens face, makes me think they are nothing but closed minded fundamentalist twits....

blacklilly

Shenshen wrote: »

Why do people drink and drive?
Why do people go bungee-jumping?
Why do people do drugs?
Why do people get onboard boats without knowing how to swim?


People are not rational, and people will behave in ways that will allow accidents to happen.
Do we therefore refuse them medical attention once the accident has happened?
Do we refuse them transfusions and medications that could go to people who acted less stupidly? Do we refuse them the time and research that might get them out of a wheelchair? No.
But some people happily pretend that engaging in sex must mean that the persons involved agreed to all potential outcomes, and therefore should be forced to endure whatever might happen to them.

Incidentally, figures show that abortion being legal or illegal has no bearing whatsoever on the numbers of abortions in any one country. The only difference is that in places where it is available legally, women aren't forced to consult dubious doctors and questionable institutions.

Perhaps you could direct me towards these figures you speak of?

Your comparassions with life threatning illinesses is, well not remotely akin to being pregnant.

People generally are rational, yes there are some that are not but generally speaking people are rational.

blacklilly

Malari wrote: »

And many people do use at least one form of contraception to avoid becoming pregnant. Do you think it should be gauged on how careful you were?

I didn'y say that, did I? What I'm saying is, if you do not want to become preganant it might be best to use more than one form of contraception.

Malari

blacklilly wrote: »

I didn'y say that, did I? What I'm saying is, if you do not want to become preganant it might be best to use more than one form of contraception.

And I'm saying it's no guarantee. And most people who are firm in not wanting to be pregnant to take precautions. But still get pregnant on occasion. They didn't consent to it.

And Zulu, sorry if I am not making myself clear, but consent to sex does not equal consent to pregnancy. That's where I was going.

blacklilly

Malari wrote: »

And I'm saying it's no guarantee. And most people who are firm in not wanting to be pregnant to take precautions. But still get pregnant on occasion. They didn't consent to it.

And Zulu, sorry if I am not making myself clear, but consent to sex does not equal consent to pregnancy. That's where I was going.

But pregnancy is a result of sex, infact the only natural result of sex apart from orgasms

Zulu

Malari wrote: »

And Zulu, sorry if I am not making myself clear, but consent to sex does not equal consent to pregnancy. That's where I was going.

Yeah, I got that part - I just take objection to the rest of where you went.

Malari

blacklilly wrote: »

But pregnancy is a result of sex, infact the only natural result of sex apart from orgasms

Why does it have to have any result?! What is your solution here, abstain? Pregnancy is only once possible result of sex. A largely avoidable one.

blacklilly

Malari wrote: »

Why does it have to have any result?! What is your solution here, abstain? Pregnancy is only once possible result of sex. A largely avoidable one.

Excatly, so we agree on one thing, pregnancy is largely avoidable by using conctraceptive correclty or yes abstaining if that is someones preferred route.

sbsquarepants

robp wrote: »

Adults are responsible for their actions. Unfortunately there is no way around that. Their are plenty of cheap ways to avoid pregnancy in this day and age. If the worse comes to worst adoption is always there for those who want it. There is little risk of unwanted children, provided she isn't pressured into not adopting by friends or family.

There is no 100% effective way to avoid pregnancy, bar abstinence, and that is just not a goer for most people. Also adoption is not an option for everyone either, i couldn't give a child up for adoption.

blacklilly wrote: »

But pregnancy is a result of sex, infact the only natural result of sex apart from orgasms

I think you'll find that most of the time, it's the second one people are after, and consenting too!

sbsquarepants

blacklilly wrote: »

Excatly, so we agree on one thing, pregnancy is largely avoidable by using conctraceptive correclty or yes abstaining if that is someones preferred route.

I've highlighted the important word for you

blacklilly

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I've highlighted the important word for you

No need to highlight it, I am aware that no contraceptive is 100% realible, however using two types of contraceptive is better than one.

christmas2012

no i dont find them offensive,if they can save a babies life that can only be a positive result,there are too many women getting abortions and not thinking of the aftermath of it..think twice before its too late is all i can say

Chain_reaction

christmas2012 wrote: »

no i dont find them offensive,if they can save a babies life that can only be a positive result,there are too many women getting abortions and not thinking of the aftermath of it..think twice before its too late is all i can say

Too late for what?

old hippy

christmas2012 wrote: »

no i dont find them offensive,if they can save a babies life that can only be a positive result,there are too many women getting abortions and not thinking of the aftermath of it..think twice before its too late is all i can say

I would say they are more than aware of the consequences than those who have not had to go through the procedure.

blacklilly

old hippy wrote: »

I would say they are more than aware of the consequences than those who have not had to go through the procedure.

Your comment does not reflect the statistics, In the UK for example,
Last year 434 women had at least their fifth abortion, a number that has risen steadily since 2007, figures from the Department of Health show. In addition, 36 per cent of women having an abortion in 2011 had already had at least one, equating to around 63,300 women.

GOCathail

While I don't agree with the signs message, I do not think that it is emotionally manipulative or offensive in any way. I think some people are too quick to be offended, there's a difference in being offended by and disagreeing with something.

old hippy

blacklilly wrote: »

Your comment does not reflect the statistics, In the UK for example,
Last year 434 women had at least their fifth abortion, a number that has risen steadily since 2007, figures from the Department of Health show. In addition, 36 per cent of women having an abortion in 2011 had already had at least one, equating to around 63,300 women.

Do the stats actually prove that women don't think about the aftermath? I'd say the stats show women are thinking about the pointlessness and cruelty of bringing a child into the world that they cannot look after.

GOCathail

old hippy wrote: »

Do the stats actually prove that women don't think about the aftermath? I'd say the stats show women are thinking about the pointlessness and cruelty of bringing a child into the world that they cannot look after.

Since the stats say that some 63,000 women had an abortion that had already had an abortion. I totally agree that sometmes abortion saves a child from being born into an unhealthy environment, where the mother cannot care for them. Having more than 1 abortion however, does not represent women that accidentally became pregnant... it shows that the availability of abortion in the UK is too widespread.

old hippy

GOCathail wrote: »

Since the stats say that some 63,000 women had an abortion that had already had an abortion. I totally agree that sometmes abortion saves a child from being born into an unhealthy environment, where the mother cannot care for them. Having more than 1 abortion however, does not represent women that accidentally became pregnant... it shows that the availability of abortion in the UK is too widespread.

Or... that maybe sex education isn't as widespread as it should be? Sex education (if it's not already) should be mandatory in schools and pupils should have access to condoms once they hit 15 or whenever it is kids start experimenting these days. Actually, there should be free condoms dispensed in schools, colleges, job centres, youth centres. Whatever it takes.

blacklilly

old hippy wrote: »

Or... that maybe sex education isn't as widespread as it should be? Sex education (if it's not already) should be mandatory in schools and pupils should have access to condoms once they hit 15 or whenever it is kids start experimenting these days. Actually, there should be free condoms dispensed in schools, colleges, job centres, youth centres. Whatever it takes.

You can continue to lay blame on lack of sex education, however the UK's sex education is way ahead of our own and they have on demand abortions.

Also to my knowledge contraception is free in many family planning organistaions across the uk, also free contraception is available in schools there too.

So the above would suggest that people are not being careful enough and look at abortion as another form of "contraception"

Zulu

old hippy wrote: »

I'd say the stats show women are thinking about the pointlessness and cruelty of bringing a child into the world that they cannot look after.

It's bizarre you'd use the term "cruelty" when discussing not having an abortion. There's more compassion in letting someone live than dissecting them when they are unable to defend themselves. I also find it strange that you describe a persons life as pointless when you've never met them.

old hippy

blacklilly wrote: »

You can continue to lay blame on lack of sex education, however the UK's sex education is way ahead of our own and they have on demand abortions.

Also to my knowledge contraception is free in many family planning organistaions across the uk, also free contraception is available in schools there too.

So the above would suggest that people are not being careful enough and look at abortion as another form of "contraception"

With respect, no matter how careful you think you are and plan to be - sometimes in the heat of the moment, you react accordingly and contraception can be an unfortunate bystander that goes missing or is forgotten.

And abortion is not a form of contraception (unlike the morning after pill) it is a choice for people to make when they realise that they cannot bring a baby into this world.

Not an easy choice, for sure but after the stable door and all that... the only realistic one to make and much less traumatic than actually having a baby and having to give it away.