Looking for reliability and cheapness to run so any suggestions ?

BeerSteakBirds

First off I will be driving about 15Km per day. So it's not a lot but I need reliability and to keep my costs down as much as possible as money is tight.

I was thinking about a Fiat Cinquecento or a Nissan Micra. I really need my car to be a miser on the gas too. My sister has a 00 Fiat Punto which has been sitting in her driveway for 2 years which I think I can persuade her to sell me.
It has no tax or NCT but I think the only problem with it is a few bodywork scratches which I can fix myself with some isopon and elbow grease. It has to be a good buy for it's age if it hasnt done any mileage for so long. Provided it works any ideas what kind of price I should offer ? I think it was not off the road for any particular reason.
Overall I want to keep the cost of travel down. The Punto seems to rate as economical enough but how can it compare to the Cinquecento which is even smaller still ? Are either reliable though compared to the Micra? I am probably thinking pure bangernomics here. Anyway any ideas are welcome

FOrd ka

BeerSteakBirds

That doesn't look like a bad idea RoverJames. I had a look on donedeal and there seems to be a few reasonably priced Kas there. The Ka is not in the cheapest tax bracket with the likes of the cinquecento though.

What I don't quite understand is how they can vary in price with the owners of some older Kas wanting more than someone else for a newer Ka.
And when they say ''lady owner'' I am not sure if I should be worried or not

I would be attracted to a Classic Car by the carrot of no NCT, cheap tax and resale value but I suppose they are not economical with the mpg or reliable either ?

No NCT would be pre 1980 I think, you won't get many ole yokes in decent condition for less than €4000 really. NCT shouldn't be a worry anyway, it's not overly stringent.

Indricotherium

Buy a bicycle.

pog it

Honda jazz. Very fuel efficient, have had no problems with mine until I needed to get a wheel bearing but that was a small job and car is 9 yr old so you'd expect to have something eventually to renew. Yep have no complaints! Great little car, lots of space, massive boot for bicycles, camping gear, etc. They're popular in the UK, not as much here which is strange considering their fuel efficiency, and I think they're a lovely design compared to a lot of cars in that price range.

sean1141

a punto that has been idle for 2 years could be a bag of trouble. a lot of things may need replacing like perished tyres bushings etc

Seweryn

Indricotherium wrote: »

Buy a bicycle.

Good idea, as your commute is quite short for a car, especially if you want to cut down the cost.

Otherwise, a little Honda would be grand, i.e. a cheap Civic would do the job well.

George Dalton

What is your budget?

Micra or Yaris.

Ka, Punto aren't bad cars but they will have plenty of little issues which while not the end of the world do mean hassle and money to sort out. The other thing is that the Micra and the Yaris are 1.0 while the Punto is 1.2 and the Ka 1.3 so you will save a bit on tax by going Japanese as well.

ronaneire

Seweryn wrote: »

Good idea, as your commute is quite short for a car, especially if you want to cut down the cost.

Otherwise, a little Honda 50 would be grand.

Fixed your post

Bigus

Take your sisters punto and run it through the nct for 55 euro, don't spend money on it before hand apart from checking bulbs first , pay her a couple of hundred for it if it passes.
Job done.

BeerSteakBirds

Indricotherium wrote: »

Buy a bicycle.

I cycle when I can. I enjoy driving and want to drive this winter. I did not enjoy cycling this winter and I have to carry a lot of files which I must not allow to get wet. I want to not turn up for work covered in muck and sweat and soaking wet as the ridiculous driving rain is difficult for a lot of waterproof gear to fend off. The bike was not trouble free either in terms of maintenance or surprising costs. Plus the car is not purely for commuting either. I enjoy driving and probably should get some enjoyment out of it before petrol doubles and triples again or who knows what in a few years and it becomes financially impossible to do.

Auguste Comte

Maby something like this. Not so good in the rain but if it's only for the work commute then very low running costs and you could use the cycle to work scheme to reduce the initial outlay.

Seweryn

Auguste Comte wrote: »

Maby something like this.

That is completely pointless. For that kind of money you get a standard road bike, which is a good bit faster, lighter, needs less maintenance and is a lot nicer to ride.

BeerSteakBirds

Well thanks for the well meaning pushbike/electrobike suggestions but I have my heart set on a small reliable car with a minimum of expensive maintenance, tax and insurance but nippy enough to cope with my small commute and to add more info: the odd very rare weekend away.
I intend to get my motorbike license this year or by the middle of next year and will no doubt look for some advice there in the motorbike section as I make some progress but that's what I think of when I think of bike these days


( I registered with boards recently because I have been reading the motoring section of boards as a non member for months )

166man

Indricotherium wrote: »

Buy a bicycle.

I still don't understand this suggestion of ''just go out and buy a bicycle'' every time somebody come's looking to buy a cheap car and keep costs down.

A low yearly annual mileage doesn't mean that the owner won't be making the odd trip down the country every so often or just want's to have something to use over the winter when it's raining. If the OP asked for suggestions on a cheap reliable car why not suggest something that he has asked for instead of bikes and electric bikes.

@OP look at getting yourself and older Nissan Micra with a 1.0l engine. That's about as cheap and reliable as motoring gets these days anyway.

Xantia

Just wondering what your budget is.
Lots of cars available on donedeal and adverts

Pottler

Get the Punto going, €39 for a service kit, semi-syn oil, air and oil filter and plugs, run it through the NCT and fix whatever they don't like about it. Or buy one - I bought one last week as a runabout, <50k genuine miles up on a '99, came with a new exhaust fitted, new Firestone tyres, new pads and discs and a day old freshly minted NCT, €600.00. Goes like a go-kart and is good on fuel. Everything works and if the timing belt breaks, pop on another and away you go again.

166man

Pottler wrote: »

Get the Punto going..... ....if the timing belt breaks, pop on another and away you go again.

So if the belt breaks, you just put another one on is it? I'm sure that a timing belt breaking would wreck the engine somehow.

bazz26

166man wrote: »

So if the belt breaks, you just put another one on is it? I'm sure that a timing belt breaking would wreck the engine somehow.

Afaik the "Fire" engines in the Punto are non interference which means if the belt snaps it doesn't cause any damage to the valves/pistons.

166man

bazz26 wrote: »

Afaik the "Fire" engines in the Punto are non interference which means if the belt snaps it doesn't cause any damage to the valves/pistons.

Surely it would affect the engine in some way or another? I'm not exactly mechanically minded but surely it would cause some negative effects?

George Dalton

The only negative effect would be that the engine would stop running when the belt breaks so you would be stranded at the side of the road. There may possibly be some minor damage to the plastic timing covers or worst case maybe the crankshaft sensor but the engine itself would be totally unharmed. There are very few engines where this is the case but the Fiat FIRE engine is one of them.

166man

I stand corrected so

shanewit

Lupo / Aroza

dgt

166man wrote: »

So if the belt breaks, you just put another one on is it? I'm sure that a timing belt breaking would wreck the engine somehow.

1.2 8v is a freewheeling engine. No valve to piston contact if the belt breaks

bazz26 wrote: »

Afaik the "Fire" engines in the Punto are non interference which means if the belt snaps it doesn't cause any damage to the valves/pistons.

16v fire is an interference engine. Found this out when trying to time one after a HG change. Nice mess if they collide...

BeerSteakBirds

My budget would be roughly 1000 Euro and the closer it gets to the really bad winter weather the more I can hopefully save. If petrol, tax, insurance and running costs , especially petrol starts to hurt my pocket then it would impact on how much driving I can do just for fun or for weekends away instead of because I need to commute. Also the rate of depreciation of the car might affect it's value against any future trade ins. I love a lot of the ideas on this thread and it just unfortunately makes me want to have everything from a Ford Ka to a Honda Jazz. My first action will be to talk with my sister about the Punto but maybe I should look for an even smaller car than the Punto with less tax and better mpg. It all depends on what kind of deal I get.

challengemaster

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

My budget would be roughly 1000 Euro and the closer it gets to the really bad winter weather the more I can hopefully save. If petrol, tax, insurance and running costs , especially petrol starts to hurt my pocket then it would impact on how much driving I can do just for fun or for weekends away instead of because I need to commute. Also the rate of depreciation of the car might affect it's value against any future trade ins. I love a lot of the ideas on this thread and it just unfortunately makes me want to have everything from a Ford Ka to a Honda Jazz. My first action will be to talk with my sister about the Punto but maybe I should look for an even smaller car than the Punto with less tax and better mpg. It all depends on what kind of deal I get.

Cars under €1000 are pretty much done depreciating. If you're even thinking about it on a car worth that little you're bonkers Negligible tbh

BeerSteakBirds

challengemaster wrote: »

Cars under €1000 are pretty much done depreciating. If you're even thinking about it on a car worth that little you're bonkers Negligible tbh

Bonkers ? Yes probably. Guilty as charged

Looking through donedeal I see some pretty old cars still selling for a few hundred although there are also a lot of delusional sellers for sure. I meant a car that will have some chance of a residual value because it if has a history of reliability then at least I won't end up with only a scrap value after I drive the shyte out of it

pog it

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

My budget would be roughly 1000 Euro and the closer it gets to the really bad winter weather the more I can hopefully save. If petrol, tax, insurance and running costs , especially petrol starts to hurt my pocket then it would impact on how much driving I can do just for fun or for weekends away instead of because I need to commute. Also the rate of depreciation of the car might affect it's value against any future trade ins. I love a lot of the ideas on this thread and it just unfortunately makes me want to have everything from a Ford Ka to a Honda Jazz. My first action will be to talk with my sister about the Punto but maybe I should look for an even smaller car than the Punto with less tax and better mpg. It all depends on what kind of deal I get.

If 1000 is your budget then you won't be able to get a honda jazz. Try a VW Polo, it's what I had before I got the jazz. They are great for long journeys, good heat and ventilation in them, not bad on fuel, particularly if you don't boot it, and with a few nice car covers you can improve the crude interior.

wonski

How about Corsa 1.0? Tax about 50E/3 months, timing chain if remember correctly. Friends had one for 2 years and no problems at all. It is very slow, but for your mileage fast enough.
There is also 1.2 16v engine if you need something "fast".

BeerSteakBirds

I've been trying to keep my budget low but also with a view to considerations like total cost of ownership for the next 3 or so years.

What does anyone think of a Daihatsu Charade 989 cc ? Is the headroom higher than a Fiat Seicento ? I saw a few I might check out on donedeal.


I figure tax for it is rock bottom. Insurance is also as low as I can find. And crucially it has to be competitive in usage of petrol with all the other minicars and has to beat the 1.2 litres cars , right ?

Bigus

Charade is a good choice. Better than a micro or Yaris on petrol too. dacha tsi have pulled out of Europe but are owned by Toyota so parts should continue to be available.
Fuppin auto correct !

BeerSteakBirds

The Charade didn't work out in the end. The one I saw from DoneDeal seemed to have been involved in a crash which wasn't explained at all in the advert
Engine was great though so it was a shame. Still looking for suggestions in the 1 Litre tax band category

I will investigate some Suzuki models such as Swift and Wagon. Any opinions about those ?

Jammy Donut

Just get a 1.25 Zetec Fiesta

Pick one up for in or around €1k, Comfy, Nippy and easy to service yourself etc...

BeerSteakBirds

Jammy Donut wrote: »

Just get a 1.25 Zetec Fiesta

Pick one up for in or around €1k, Comfy, Nippy and easy to service yourself etc...

I like a lot however I want to spend 185 Euro per annum in road tax on a 1 Litre engine.

Road tax is not only hard for me to afford but it also just doesn't appeal to me as an unfair double triple tax on the cost of motoring /rant :P. On the bangernomics scale I think the difference in road tax over the life of the banger amounts to a health % of the price of a replacement banger.

I did test drive a zetec in good condition (specifically a Fiesta Ghia). It had a crack in it's back bumper but it hadn't been crashed, just tipped. And also had a lot of scratches in the body but otherwise in great condition inside, inside the engine and structurally. I have no idea how much it would cost to replace a bumper and do a respray. I know enough to fill minor holes or scratches and sand them flush and prepare the vehicle for respraying which seems kind of expensive too.

BeerSteakBirds

I can bring my budget up to 2,500 Grand now. But I'd prefer to keep it under 2 . It all depends on how much driving I can get for my bucks. if I can get 3 or 4 or even 5 years out of something like a reliable ? Nisssan Micra ??? Then I would be very happy.

Am I not alone in hating the style of the post 2003 Micras ? They don't look like mini cars any longer. Maybe a 2003 Micra would suit me ? Would I need more than 2.5 k for one of those ?

BeerSteakBirds

Well the quest is over. I have a 1 Litre 2001 Micra ''Vibe'' in immaculate condition and low mileage 66k with a full service history and barely any scratches on it. The original seats etc have no wear on them.
In fact any scratches are hard to see. No crash etc. NCT until end of 2013. I've been driving around half the city for the last few days. I am really enjoying it. So case closed unless anyone has any warnings about any potential problems I should beware of or prepare for with the old Nissan Micras

wonski

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

Well the quest is over. I have a 1 Litre 2001 Micra ''Vibe'' in immaculate condition and low mileage 66k with a full service history and barely any scratches on it. The original seats etc have no wear on them.
In fact any scratches are hard to see. No crash etc. NCT until end of 2013. I've been driving around half the city for the last few days. I am really enjoying it. So case closed unless anyone has any warnings about any potential problems I should beware of or prepare for with the old Nissan Micras

Apart from all the inpatient/experienced/superstitious drivers trying to overtake you at every opportunity, you should be ok.
They are very reliable cars, but have some (bad) reputation...

BeerSteakBirds

wonski wrote: »

Apart from all the inpatient/experienced/superstitious drivers trying to overtake you at every opportunity, you should be ok.
They are very reliable cars, but have some (bad) reputation...

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/nissan/micra/hatchback-1993/21466/

The stats looked pretty good to me here. 47 MPG (on paper but will find out for myself) but still feels like I'm sitting in a larger car. The chunky wing mirrors are great and create a whole lot of visibility from the driver seat. Compared to the Daihatsu or Seicento it feels a bit safer if I was involved in a collision. Whats the bad reputation they have ? I've only ever heard good things about them. In fact now that I have one I notice them all over our roads and seem to pass one every few minutes on my travels.

BostonB

I think vibe is the old model which is more reliable than the new one IMO. I think that would be my choice also.

Be aware though if you drive fast and accelerate hard especially with a small engine its going to effect fuel econcomy. Driving smoothly, at a constant speed and as little braking as possible is the way to use less fuel.

Don't discount the bike though. Once you have water proof pannier everythign stays dry. Leave a change bag in work, then theres no problem getting wet yourself. The more you cycle the less fuel you'll save for weekend trips.

BeerSteakBirds

BostonB wrote: »

I think vibe is the old model which is more reliable than the new one IMO. I think that would be my choice also.

Yes it seems to be the very last model before they radically changed it in 2003. I was looking for a 2002 Micra but my 2001 was so perfect that I couldn't refuse it.

BostonB wrote: »

Be aware though if you drive fast and accelerate hard especially with a small engine its going to effect fuel econcomy. Driving smoothly, at a constant speed and as little braking as possible is the way to use less fuel.

I try to use the brakes as little as possible by judging the momentum energy release into the car and comparing it to obstacles ahead but it seems to me that in this country the lights go red with nobody around for no reason with no pedestrians etc at empty cross roads and everyone brakes. Then in between they drive up your tailpipe even though the red light ahead means it won't get them to their destination any faster. The traffic light system here often seems nuts. In my opinion anyway.

BostonB wrote: »

Don't discount the bike though. Once you have water proof pannier everythign stays dry. Leave a change bag in work, then theres no problem getting wet yourself. The more you cycle the less fuel you'll save for weekend trips.

Bikes are cool pieces of engineering. I love them. What irritates a lot of people however is when a cultish attitude prevails, that it's either bikes or cars but not both. Now with a car I can take my bike to new locations and cycle around a lot more sights without getting bored. And when the weather is nice ( 2 days per year ? :pac:) and I don't have too many bags to carry I will cycle to work etc

Mar4ix

Car on which i was working on last year - nissan micra, '97 , with 1 l. engine.... sold to one friend, last week she passed nct, goin to sell in a month or two for 450, if interested, let me know. he didnt advertise yet.

BostonB

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

...And when the weather is nice ( 2 days per year ? :pac:) and I don't have too many bags to carry I will cycle to work etc

Its rare that even on a rainy day that it rains all day. I find you can go between showers quite easily. Also my perception of the weather is always worse when I'm driving than when I'm cycling.

I bring up cycling, because while I drive more than I cycle. I find I notice the saving in fuel if I manage to get some cycling to work in. If you are looking at it from a budgeting POV.

Media999

Mate of mine is in a situation like yourself. Works with a farmer and needs a banger. Partner has a good car.

Hes had a few of the cars mentioned here. He swears by the Micra. Thats defo what id recommend.

edit - wrote this before even reading last replies. Micra seems to be a good choice. Buy one that a granny or woman has had the last few years and youll be good to go id say.

edit again. I see you actually bought a micra.

Mar4ix

Media999 wrote: »

Mate of mine is in a situation like yourself. Works with a farmer and needs a banger. Partner has a good car.

Hes had a few of the cars mentioned here. He swears by the Micra. Thats defo what id recommend.

edit - wrote this before even reading last replies. Micra seems to be a good choice. Buy one that a granny or woman has had the last few years and youll be good to go id say.

....... just make sure you have enough cash for clutch/gearbox replacing :pac:

Seweryn

BostonB wrote: »

Its rare that even on a rainy day that it rains all day. I find you can go between showers quite easily. Also my perception of the weather is always worse when I'm driving than when I'm cycling.

That is very true. And we have no extreme weather in this country. Some rain here and there shouldn't stop anyone from cycling, imo.

BostonB wrote: »

I bring up cycling, because while I drive more than I cycle. I find I notice the saving in fuel if I manage to get some cycling to work in. If you are looking at it from a budgeting POV.

Yeah, at least you save some money on fuel. However, I find that I eat quite a lot more when I cycle and the bike components cost me more that the annual service bill for a small car, i.e. I reckon I spend around €500 on servicing my bicycle per year (that is not including any clothing and other equipment). But this year so far all of my commuting was done on the bicycle (covered over 10k km so far this year on the bike). The only few days I drove to work was for company purposes, i.e. a meeting in other part of the country, etc.

Regarding a cheap car, I would recommend a Honda Civic 1.5 pre-2001 model. This is a very reliable, cheap to buy, very economical (47.5mpg is my total average) and cheap to insure and to tax car. In comparison to the Nissan Micra it is also a lot quicker (over 100hp), it cruises a lot nicer on a motorway (long gears) and it handles a lot better. The main problem is to find a good example, but it can be done with some patience.

BostonB

Most people won't spend anything like that on a bicycle.

Seweryn

BostonB wrote: »

Most people won't spend anything like that on a bicycle.

Bad for them .

BeerSteakBirds

Seweryn wrote: »

I reckon I spend around €500 on servicing my bicycle per year (that is not including any clothing and other equipment). But this year so far all of my commuting was done on the bicycle (covered over 10k km so far this year on the bike).

I'd never buy a brand new bicycle in the same way I would never buy a brand new car. Unless you're in the Stephen Roche league , covering 10k km must be an awful lot slower than driving a small car. I can see the health benefits and financial savings (on cheaper bikes than yours) but it sounds very time consuming. I used to exercise a lot but I found I get bored. I need to read etc.

Seweryn

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

Unless you're in the Stephen Roche league , covering 10k km must be an awful lot slower than driving a small car.

True. But if you cycle most of that distance in a city, it would take you actually less than in a car.
No, I am not in any league and I was never into any sport and in fact I only started cycling on daily basis last October and I reckon the mileage covered took me not much more than twice as long as if I covered all of it in a car, which would be quite boring in comparison, tbh. Yes, it is an awful lot slower if you take a motorway in a car, but on local roads and in the town, the difference is small.

BeerSteakBirds wrote: »

I'd never buy a brand new bicycle in the same way I would never buy a brand new car.

No one suggested a brand new (or expensive) vehicle, but every machine requires proper care and maintenance, especially if it covers the mileage. If people are not willing to spend money on service, the vehicle won't last and will only give trouble.

colm_mcm

Id be curious as to what you spent the 500 on.