Spiderman

ElSniperino

I've been on this forum for a couple of years, I have quite a small post number because I mainly enjoy reading the threads, and a lot of information I want is already available.

From what I've seen of the moderating of this forum, there does seem to be a rather high proportion of unjustified punishments. Now I'm not saying all the punishments were over-zealous or unwarranted, but it gives me the innate sense that if I post, I have a much higher chance of being penalized for it when compared to many other forums. I'd say with a high degree of confidence that I'm not the only one who feels this, and if that's the case there's a fundamental error somewhere in the system.

I wish to make it clear that I don't make this point about all moderators or all moderating that goes on, just to make it clear that it does happen and it does have an effect.

My two cents.

War Machine 539

I had to clear mine out I had 500 in the inbox about a month ago!

TheDoc

Steve wrote: »

why some people here felt the need to childishly post pictures of spiderman with derogatory quotes about moderators recently.

If people want to be treated as adults then the least they could do is act like adults. Is this an unreasonable request?

When or where did this happen?

Steve

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Steve I am not going trawling through here looking for examples, however I have mailed you directly about it, and was responded with '' personality sometimes gets through in a post'' or something to that effect, if you can find the mail feel free to quote it. I am clearly not the only one who notices this as the posts above show.

OK - I found a way to search it - we have exchanged 78 PM's since boards began - there is nothing in there that is remotely like this.
Mostly it was you asking for and getting help on the adverts forum with stuff you were selling or users you had problems with.

Other than that it was mainly you criticising the moderation here up to and including you saying to me "Hope I get to meet you personally someday, so I can tell you what I think of the job you do around here to your face" - I won't quote the context there as it would involve another user that is not connected to this discussion but as you asked me to quote PM's, I'd just like everyone to know what we're dealing with.

Please feel free to publish any pm that I sent you (on the same condition that it does not involve any other identifiable individual) that you feel was biased or unfair in any way.

If I wanted to be a b0llox here, I could make this all go away with a few clicks and would be perfectly justified in doing so under site rules - but no - I want this forum to work - and I want everyone to have their say and get listened to as far as is practical so I don't ban those just because the hold different views to mine, I don't ban people for their opinions, I do, however, ban people that are intent on consistently disrupting the forum and if I die by that sword then so be it - at least I will die with honour.

To summarise, Phil, and with the greatest of respect, if you have something tangible to bring to the table then bring it. If you want to act like a scolded child then expect to be treated like one - I really don't appreciate the time lost that I spent trawling through thousands of pm's to find that what you accused me of was not there. I shall treat any further claims of yours with a proportional amount of credibility.

Steve

TheDoc wrote: »

When or where did this happen?

Here - but the posts concerned have been removed.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79089048

War Machine 539

Interesting choice of posts here. I have had issues with you in the past, and have been made felt like a scolded child therefore I don't believe my responses to be unreasonable. I let them go.

Despite that, I am not the only one who feels that mods are being smartarses when dishing out bans, no matter what my responses to previous PMs regarding different topics say.

There is no point misdirecting my opinions with exchanges we have had on totally UNRELATED issues Steve.

And anything I post here should be treated with the same regard as anyone elses. Or your moderation is no longer impartial. Regardless of your opinion of me at a personal level.

Is that not where this whole problem stems?

War Machine 539

Steve wrote: »

Other than that it was mainly you criticising the moderation here up to and including you saying to me "Hope I get to meet you personally someday, so I can tell you what I think of the job you do around here to your face" - I won't quote the context there as it would involve another user that is not connected to this discussion but as you asked me to quote PM's, I'd just like everyone to know what we're dealing with.

To what purpose does this serve btw? Other than making me look bad? It has nothing to do with the current topic, if it was a problem at the time a sanction could have been given but wasn't.

Steve

War Machine 539 wrote: »

To what purpose does this serve btw? Other than making me look bad? It has nothing to do with the current topic, if it was a problem at the time a sanction could have been given but wasn't.

So, what you're saying is it's fine to have a pop at the mods but when a mod gives some feedback about a user then it's not cool??

If you want equality then it works both ways.

Lemming

I have returned. Reports of my death by mud are greatly exaggerated. On the other hand, Black Sabbath were awesomely awesome, along with Soundgarden, the Dropkick Murphys, Ugly Kid Joe, Megadeth, Anthrax, Black Label Society, and a whole wedge of other bands that my mind has just melted and failed to remember at this moment in time.

On a more relevant note, I'm absolutely knackered so trying to form a proper response to Doc (and everything since that I want to respond to) that doesn't make him think "wtf was that incoherrent sh1te about?" can wait until I've had some kip. On that note; sleep tight, bed bugs, etc.

War Machine 539

Steve wrote: »

So, what you're saying is it's fine to have a pop at the mods but when a mod gives some feedback about a user then it's not cool??

If you want equality then it works both ways.

I can't dish out sanctions here Steve. So absolutely when someone has the right to judge when a ban is dished out, I can most certainly have a ''pop'' at them. Still trying to figure out what ''pop'' means, as I understand it you mean question them. Well then yes, I will most certainly question any decision that does not appear to be based in logic and fairness.

If you have any further ''feedback'' for me, I suggest you PM me if you have a problem. The same way we are expected to give feedback on you.

So to answer your question, yes its fine to give feedback on a user, but perhaps via sanctions, PMs etc. Not as a weapon to try and derail a users point or to undermine his credibility.



Steve without turning this into a back and forth, my issue with you is pretty much a non-issue, what was said was said when I believed I was being treated unfairly. It was said in the heat of the moment. Since then never had much of an issue with you.

Now I have had agreement that when bans or warnings are being handed out mods are adding their own two cents to the end, making the user being banned look like an even bigger fool.
A good moderator exercises restraint. Keeps his/her mouth shut and gives the ban and perhaps a short explanation as to why. A good moderator does not scold the user like he is a four year old child. And this happens Steve, maybe not always, but enough that users are starting to notice it. I found the PM, I didn't look to be honest, I assumed I deleted it.



In our little benevolent dictatorship, it's none of your business. It's also against site guidelines to question a mod post on thread - particularly when it has nothing to do with you.

Your choice Doc, take the red pill or the blue pill, lets see how deep the rabbit hole goes.




Sick of reading smart assed posts like this from yourself. Is it necessary? A simple question was asked. A polite answer would would have sufficed.




Hiya,

The Doc is well aware of the meaning if my post, but you're right to question it.

The 'Benevolent Dictatorship' reference was originally coined by the site founders as a description of how the site works (as opposed to a democracy) - it's probably not apparent to newer users though. It wasn't meant to be smart assed - well maybe a little - but it's either that or issue a card or ban and I try to avoid them if I can.

Doc knows well that it's general site policy to PM a mod if they wish to discuss modding, it's specifically in the forum charter as well. If it's not controlled then every thread where a mod posts will eventually turn into a discussion on the mod action and the original signal will be lost to the noise this generates - that's why the rules is there.

Hope that explains it a bit better, please feel free to pm me if you've need any more info.

Thanks,
Steve.

The above is the PM I was talking about. This attitude needs to go. Pretty much one upping the guy when it was TOTALLY unnecessary. A simple answer to what he asked would have been enough instead of the verbal you provided. And who are you to say something on a PUBLIC forum has nothing to do with someone else.




Post Script.

Been doing some reading on an old Mod here. My opinions now have perspective. Steve, I apologize, I have now seen what a sack of sh1t a mod can choose to be. I will keep my post up above just to be fair but my god we have it a lot better than we did in 2009. You have my apologies.
One note. Nobody likes being told what to do. Don't rub salt in the wound when banning or warning and I honestly think the forum will be good.

Gentlemen, say compared to 2009, we don't know how good we have it with regards to Mods. F*ck me there are some cnuts in this world.
In summation, Steve I was wrong, I apologize and I am sorry for any aggro I have stirred up!

sharpy2010

Captain Chaos wrote: »

horgan_p wrote: »

Mystery to me why someone like Puding wasn't asked to do it.

Prolific poster , excellant tech. knowledge and more or less gets on with everyone.

Because he's not in the clique that has been here since 07-08 as has been pointed out. It's the root cause of what has this forum the way it is since it started going to pot since early 09 and never recovered. It got little highs now and again but now it's 6 feet under.

Perfect point puding is over 6 feet so he can only bring it back up!!! Now that's a joke before I get banned!!

To answer steve's question I have no idea as to why everyone is using spiderman meme's

On a different note I do feel that the two new moderartors were elected would have been a good thing to the forum one in particular over the other and boy was I wrong!! The one I thought would be suited seriously took it too far, as already been highlighted, as for the other I cant fault or question his actions.
I understand at the start you have to be seen as who is in charge but they are forgetting their job title and that is too moderate not POLICE
Just my two cents

swiftblade

Maybe it's because I haven't posted much in comparison to other users, but I've never had an issue with the moderation on this forum. That said, I'm not saying it's not an issue, I just don't have any experience in it. But when I see discussions like this I always have to ask myself, Do people really care that much? The forum still works, content isn't being restricted, questions get answered etc. It's just an internet forum. It's just as place to supplement our sport and the discussion of it. It isn't our sport.


The Airsoft forum is something unique. I don't know of any other (correct me if I'm wrong) forum on boards.ie that has had issues like this. I'm not saying it's a user based issue, but perhaps it has been blown out of proportion by users. It's just an Internet forum, isn't it? The Irony here is Airsoft is and outdoor sport, yet we seem to thrive on sitting indoors and arguing over stupid issues. We always harp on about how Airsoft is a team sport and supports team-building.Can't see that reflected here. To be honest, sometimes I'm even scared to open my mouth on here for fear of getting my face smashed in, if I meet any of ye at a site.


The forum has lulled over recent years, but is that a cause of bad moderation? Maybe. But more so, it's just people being bored, not posting or moving else where for what ever reason. Sites and retailers have left boards due to financial reason, and perhaps this has drawn some of the traffic away.


In short. Don't be so quick to point the fingers at moderators for all the problems on the forum.

TheDoc

In response to War Machine.

I got the reference from the Steve on that occasion. And whilst I see how it could be interpreted as kinda sarcy towards me, I'm going to assume I was giving some jip in the first place. I dont mind getting some after giving some, I'm long enough on the internet to have pretty thick skin

I think the PM you have quoted is actually good moderating, he explained the references and what happened. But as I didn't take anything from it, no one else should, and it shouldnt be something held over anyone, in my view.

And I think thats a point I made earlier, in that the really first point of protocol is the OP having an issue, and then if there is subsequent enquiries about it.

For example if I took that the wrong way, and five other people had the same feeling, that might be grounds for a question or two over the nature of the post, but I think, in that example, it was ok.

I think there is also something to be said about understanding the posting nature of people. If you do this long enough, you can typically read between the lines. While the post was jovial and had some references to a film, it also got the point across of what Steve pm'd you. I should know better, and I know where it will go.

Also to highlight the Adverts thread where there was a ban orgy, looking at the usernames there is not one person recognisable as a regular poster.

Airsoft Adverts attracts a horde of window lickers that play airosft to sell their kit. You only have to see the

"JING GONG G36C REALLY GOOD GUN SHOOTS ANIMAL FPS LOOKING FOR 5,000 NO TRADES BUT WILL SWOP FOR COTTON WOOL" To realise that forum attracts once off posters.

I don't think its an accurate reflection of the hostility felt by the board towards moderators. I'm going to assume, being that they were new posters, they were all probably ****ters, the same ****ters you see on sites every weekend. And that their spiderman pics werent even funny or intelligently created

War Machine 539

TheDoc wrote: »

In response to War Machine.

I got the reference from the Steve on that occasion. And whilst I see how it could be interpreted as kinda sarcy towards me, I'm going to assume I was giving some jip in the first place. I dont mind getting some after giving some, I'm long enough on the internet to have pretty thick skin

I think the PM you have quoted is actually good moderating, he explained the references and what happened. But as I didn't take anything from it, no one else should, and it shouldnt be something held over anyone, in my view.

And I think thats a point I made earlier, in that the really first point of protocol is the OP having an issue, and then if there is subsequent enquiries about it.

For example if I took that the wrong way, and five other people had the same feeling, that might be grounds for a question or two over the nature of the post, but I think, in that example, it was ok.

I think there is also something to be said about understanding the posting nature of people. If you do this long enough, you can typically read between the lines. While the post was jovial and had some references to a film, it also got the point across of what Steve pm'd you. I should know better, and I know where it will go.

Also to highlight the Adverts thread where there was a ban orgy, looking at the usernames there is not one person recognisable as a regular poster.

Airsoft Adverts attracts a horde of window lickers that play airosft to sell their kit. You only have to see the

"JING GONG G36C REALLY GOOD GUN SHOOTS ANIMAL FPS LOOKING FOR 5,000 NO TRADES BUT WILL SWOP FOR COTTON WOOL" To realise that forum attracts once off posters.

I don't think its an accurate reflection of the hostility felt by the board towards moderators. I'm going to assume, being that they were new posters, they were all probably ****ters, the same ****ters you see on sites every weekend. And that their spiderman pics werent even funny or intelligently created

Hey my hands are up, I was reading the posts out of context. As I have said in a post above, I now have a different perspective. I was being a prat and I apologise again for any aggro caused. Especially to Steve my accusations leveled against him were false. I am going to bow out of this one before I make a bigger thick out of myself!

Lemming

I've spent the last few hours writing up a response. Until I got to page two, and hightower & Doc's discussion around FK (lets not beat about the bush here, everybody and their dog knows whom you refer to).

The door on what you think you know swings both ways. And you don't know an awful lot behind the scenes either on or off forum. I mean it's not as if there was any sexist carry-on, or racist remarks based on her religion, or throw-away comments of committing of sexually violent acts, or somewhat less throw away discussions by "grown men" f*cking children about "group" participation in the most taboo of sexual violence that also involved making me watch at a specific location at a specific airsoft event.

Sorry, but I cannot be bothered writing nor contributing any more to this discussion.

TheDoc

Lemming wrote: »

I've spent the last few hours writing up a response. Until I got to page two, and hightower & Doc's discussion around FK (lets not beat about the bush here, everybody and their dog knows whom you refer to).

The door on what you think you know swings both ways. And you don't know an awful lot behind the scenes either on or off forum. I mean it's not as if there was any sexist carry-on, or racist remarks based on her religion, or throw-away comments of committing of sexually violent acts, or somewhat less throw away discussions by "grown men" f*cking children about "group" participation in the most taboo of sexual violence that also involved making me watch at a specific location at a specific airsoft event.

Sorry, but I cannot be bothered writing nor contributing any more to this discussion.

Would genuinely like you to post your response, especially if it took hours, it makes me look less weird. You've genuinely being on both sides of the fence and it would be interesting to read.

I'm pretty well informed of what goes on in the community believe it or not, so while your post refers to some loose things I can vaguely recall, I think I also remember hearing the other side of the stories and also neutral sides as well.

FK was brought up in my posts simply because there was some serious impartial modding going on in relation to her time here at parts. That was brought through the channels and I believe that was actually one instance were something was done about it. And it was an example relating to similar traits that have gone on recently.

I also think hightower was ever so slightly off his timeline, as much of the mod team here currently was not active in their mod roles at the time of Firekittens attendance to the forum. And he is partially right in outlining what he said about her being dealth with light handed for some time, when during her initial time here she was brash, rude, aggressive and constantly splurting arguements, even when the lads weren't directly involved. For whatever else "you claim went on" there is no denying the above played a major role in her presence here.

To be pretty honest, I can't remember much of the specifics, but I'm going to hazard a wild guess, that some of your post is labelled at some of the guys I hang around / play with, considering they were always at each others throats. And I do remember two instances where there was stuff levelled at the lads. And when I investigated it through impartial means and avenues, it came back as fluff and utter bollox. But as you say what you "think" you know swings both ways, its pretty irrelevant to this conversation.

I'd ask you re-consider and make your point, while it will probably be defending post (considering I dont think you've seen eye to eye with the likes of me or the people mainly being subject to harsh moderation on this forum) but it will provide a different viewpoint and perhaps some topics to continue on with.

Steve

War Machine 539 wrote: »

Hey my hands are up, I was reading the posts out of context. As I have said in a post above, I now have a different perspective. I was being a prat and I apologise again for any aggro caused. Especially to Steve my accusations leveled against him were false. I am going to bow out of this one before I make a bigger thick out of myself!

It takes a big person to post something like that, I commend you for your honesty. :cool:

When you've been around a site like this for a long time it absorbs you and you kinda forget that not everyone knows the history of the whole thing along with all its quirks and foibles and may not 'get' some of the stuff that is said - I'll admit that I'm guilty of that sometimes.

I think threads like this are important to clear the air, if anything when serving as a mod here, we (well "I" - can't speak for others) never stop learning.