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How we run tournaments
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07-06-2012 11:37am#1Wanted to start a discussion on how we run tournaments - Get the neurons firing on how we organise sh1t3. There are a lot more fighting games out these days than when we started hosting tourneys with peeps having different preferences for which game they "main" (with some obviously being whores and playing them all). This is having an effect on splitting the community events for DoC or inferno - or other smaller ones?! Given how small we actually are in terms of numbers, I think this is hurting us more than helping us. Wanted to start the discussion to see if we can come up with a better way of being more inclusive and/or combining games for tourneys and how we should run em. Lets start throwing ideas around and see where it goes?
I also think we need to purchase equipment for the community. We have 4 monitors and some speakers but we should really have some consoles as well. This will most definitely help with organising events as we would have a min number of setups and then the dedicated few who would bring in gear would mean that we could have 6-8 easily enough per event - hence facilitating ideas and possible formats.
I am not 100% on what way would work best but we should at least attempt to think about it and see what we can do. I do not intend this thread to be an attack on how existing community members run events or have run in the past - you guys are all legends in my eyes. Without which this discussion would be moot.
We could have inferDoc where we alternate two main games and support them with side tourneys but have 4 per event.
e.g. (please understand I am a SF only playa - so don't know all the games about we could use as side tourneys)
Month 1 - Main (SF and SFxT) | Side (Skullgirls and HDR)
Month 2 - Main (Marvel and MK9) | Side (3s and tekken 6)
Month 3 - Main (SF and SFxT) | Side (Soul Cal 5 and KoFXIII)
Month 4 - Main (Marvel and MK9) | Side (VF5 and Blaz Blue)
Rinse and repeat.
(I picked the "main' games in the example above based on numbers from past experience - open to config, obviously)
This way each tourney is different. All games are played (mostly). I think it could work - if we get some setups. Obviously the side games themselves could be voted on each month through a thread easily enough and if it was at the last one, it can't be in the next. We would have to limit the format to straight single/double elim or wha-evs works best.
This could also lead to having a casuals machine at events - just for you Bush
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I rather like this idea being the dirty jack-of-all-trades that I am.
Haven't really been coming down south for anything in a good while so I don't know if you'd be able to facilitate that many games on a day though. If you guys can work out the logistics I definitely think it would make each event more attractive to travel to.
You could always save valuable time and space by dropping SFxT.
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Doctor DooM wrote: »Do we want DoC and Inferno to continue as seperate events? What about creating 2 different DoCs, one for 3D and one for 2D? Or AJ's idea, completely amalgamate the two? With Chopper finding it difficult to attend Inferno, does anyone else want to help out?
I'd go with amalgamation with a pool of TO's. I'd volunteer as would those who already do (at a guess). With a 1 tourney monthly format, it could work out that with 4/5 people, we'd only have to run one each twice a year or so. Just a thought.chopperbyrne wrote: »How many people would turn up to tournaments with no prize money, simply a flat fee of say €7 for entry into any tournament happening that day?
+1Doctor DooM wrote: »The only thing that's ever worked so far is a big prize.
In the second evo qualifier, the MvC tournament went mental for the stick prize. Last year we had 2 international travellers.
the thing with big prizes is, though, if you can't get a company to pay for them- big risk.
So I think the solution (which a number of people suggested to me) is that a little be shaved off the takings from tournaments for that too.
Definitely need to take the money and build up the things we need before allowing all the value capture by the best players. That being said, there has to be a motivation for going and competing. The way to work it, I think, is on percentages. 30% door to venue, 40% to community fund, 30% to prize fund. The community fund is to be administered by the committee for equip, alternative prizes or whaevs is required. We want to get to a point where no one needs to bring equip - except Doom.. That way the bigger the turn out, the bigger the prize and the benefit for all concerned.
As for yearly event. From experience, the biggest problem is always cost. If we had help on that through the year, we could have way more flexibility. International players are not going to spend up to 200 quid minimum to come over unless the prize is serious. We were offering to send someone to vegas and only got 2/3. I think we should look at growing the Irish scene before looking at that - imho0 -
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I remember the first tournament I attended in 2010 there was 30+ people and the scene was growing and looked so promising
It's a bit sad our community hasn't grown to the potential it could have. I think as people have said before there is a major disinterest in tournaments, competitive play and being a community in general, which is a shame because we have some genuinely really really good SF players in ireland 0 -
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My two cents on the scene in general and tourney and event organisation in Ireland. Long, rambling post coming up...
My impression from the point of view of a (semi) outsider, new arrival to the community, but also as someone who has lurked around for quite a while and kept an eye on things, is that the fighting game tourneys and events scene in Ireland is increasingly under threat from lots of things, but lack of concerted planning and publicity is not helping at all. I learned to play SF in the arcades 20 years ago, when an arcade machine with a bunch of people watching and queuing (or maybe a SNES in a rich mate's house
) was the ONLY fighting game scene there was, and you always knew where and when the games were on, and what the benefits of going or the kind of welcome you'd get was. You'd have the craic, meet friends, and above all, eventually you'd GET REALLY GOOD.
Ever-improving broadband and XBL/PSN connection is seen by a large number of players now as the best way to play and learn fighting games and improve your skills, which is completely wrong. Add to that the cost and especially the hassle for many many people of getting to (usually) Dublin to meet up or compete at an event, as well as often peacemeal info on what's happening, what's going to happen on the day, who'll be there, what the format is, etc, and it's easy to see why a lot of people, especially new, inexperienced people, don't show.
I think the community could gain more out of talking itself up as a better alternative to online play, and organising and publicising stuff better to get new numbers in to counteract the inevitable falloff in older or more experienced players as life starts to get in the way of videogames (trust me, it happens...:D)
I think the Irish scene is small but great, and has some great passionate players and helpful, dedicated people, but it needs to make a bit of a concerted effort to pull together and do a bit of a marketing job on itself, and sell it's strengths and get new people in. It's biggest strengths over XBL, which aren't really capitalized on, are that meeting people and playing fighting games in person is a fun, rewarding, friendly, thing to do, that the scene is a genuine treasure trove of like minded people with lots of information and experience, who for the most part, are happy to share their knowledge and try to keep their community strong, and that when you come to events and tourneys you'll get a well run experience, where you'll have loads of fun, and learn much more than you would online, and you'll meet loads of players you can connect to and play with again over XBL/PSN when you get back home.
In a nutshell, make the scene more accessible to non hardcore players, and retain and grow as many of them as possible into the big names of tomorrow to make up for the ones who are inevitably going to leave over time or as new games come and go.
In terms of the logistics of increasing numbers and getting newbies (like me) to come in, i think a few things could help. Most of these are aimed at getting the message out to new members, making things clear and easy for them to come along, welcoming them in, and nurturing them along in the scene.
Stuff like:- More organisation around publicisation in advance of fighting tourneys and casuals. We've all got facebook pages, twitter, etc, etc, a concerted effort by the community to let more people know about events. Push everybody to do their bit to share and link stuff, maybe even ask companies they know for sponsorship, and just generally put the word out, with shoutouts or even discounts on tourney fees for people who go above and beyond.
- Discounted (just by a little bit) online registration and payment, to keep tabs on expected numbers to events and to encourage people to register in advance.
- When new people turn up at an event, the entire community ethos, as a rule, should be to make them feel welcome and like they fit in, and help them improve (not saying it's not like that now-it is, but in a non-structured way). Things like, if it's your first tourney, you don't have to pay in, you're welcomed (officially introduced by an announcer on a mic or whatever) as new on the scene, and people know to make a point of getting to know you and chatting, etc......and (like in fight club) if it's your first visit, you have to fight
- Getting the scene a bit more organized around things like carpooling, hiring buses, hotel shares, couch sleeping spots, etc as an alternative to expensive transport and accommodation costs for people not resident in the capital. All this stuff makes a tourney trip to Dublin less hassle and much more fun (for culchies )
Oh, and...Maybe we're all just growing up.
Don't think so. I'm an old fart (well by this community's standards anyway) and i STILL can't let go of streetfighter. I've just recently got back into the scene as i just plain missed competitive fighting games too much while having other major priorities in my life, and I've been really surprised by the welcoming attitudes and general helpfulness in the Irish community.
I don't think you ever get too old for something you really love doing.0 -
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Doctor DooM wrote: »Well there's an increasing theme of more organisation arising and I agree with it.
Here's the thing: who is going to do it?
We need people to do the kinds of things you're talking about MackDaddi and we need a few people, if 1 or 2 do it it leads to burnout.
Undoubtedly, you're correct. It's all very well to plan stuff like this but, if nobody is going to put in the work then it's just empty planning.
Firstly, I'll just say that I personally would be willing to help in whatever way that i can. I'm planning to spend more time in the FG community, and if that works out the way i hope, I'd have no objection to lending a hand at something i can do. Aside from that though, there are a couple of things i would suggest doing to spread the load, and avoid the burnout you mentioned happening to key people like yourself and other organizers.
Crowdsource the ideas and expertise: Sit down with the theme of better organisation, and get an idea of the kind of things you all feel you would need to do to make improvements. Note all the skills, expertise, logistics stuff etc, required and prioritize them in terms of importance, list them where everybody concerned can see them (in a thread like this one, or a database somewhere) and ask for volunteers who might find it easy to help with something on the list.
For each skill point, you're looking for people in the scene who do that stuff regularly, as part of work or hobbies or whatever to just chip in and help out a bit. For example, a graphic designer or web guy who might be able to knock up a poster for a tourney for you on his lunchbreak, a guy coming to the tourney who might own a van and would be willing to carpool for petrol money, or pick people up, etc, etc. Someone with a mic or a cable or a screen who wouldn't mind loaning it out (secure in the knowledge that there's a community funded slush fund somewhere to replace it if it's broken or nicked). You won't get everythign you need, but you'll at least have a clearer idea of what skills and resources are available to you and which changes and improvements you can realistically hope to make.
Eventually, if the community actually gives enough of a crap and chips in (and that's the crucial point) your list of priorities starts to get done, and you should start to see results, but nobody has really had to step too much out of their comfort zone, or do anything that they wouln't normally be doing to get there.
This all depends on your numbers and the available skills of course, but ultimately, if the community isn't willing to help itself to survive, it's not going to succeed anyway. That's the other side of the coin of course, you need to make it as fun as possible to be at these events and make it a community worth working for. That's where the whole ethos of an unwritten rule to make newcomers as welcome as possible at events pays off.
Anyways, I'm rambling again, apologies. I'm going to shut up now, and go back to lurking quietly 0 -
I'm not really entirely sure on just how strongly i should wade into this discussion. As most of you know i don't actually play any fighting games in any way seriously, i'm essentially a spectator. But I do see a lot of potential in the Dublin FGC, and i do think it can be organised relatively easily, so i'll throw my opinion in there, ye can do with it as ye wish.
I know that there is a committee of sorts in place already, but anytime i bring it up with them it seems vague and badly defined, and nobody seems to have a specific responsibiliy. My idea would be to structure it a bit more like our SciFi society in college. There's an executive committee of three people, Auditor, Secretary and Tresurer, and then there's the main committee involving the librarians and other officers. The big thing that i think is important is that there's a bank account. The three execs have control of it, and that power gets passed along year after year as new committees are elected annually. I think having something similar for the FGC would be very helpful.
A basic committee for the FGC could go something like:
Auditor/Emperor Supreme
Secretary
Tresurer
A/V officer
PRO
Net officer (Boards, randomselect, facebook ect.)
Sponsorship/Corporate relations officer
A set TO to oversee every regular tourney.
You're talking about ten people who sign up to do a bit of the work, and if everyone even slightly pulls their weight the whole thing goes a whole lot smoother than it is now. On top of that you have ten of what i would hope would be the most important people in the FGC who can have a discussion and decide how to spend the community's money best and to eveyone's benefit. It can be debated and discussed and voted on.
It will also make the FGC look a whole lot better when we go abroad, it can have much more concrete relations with international organisers and increase the chances of getting some sponsorship and big international names for our big tournaments.
Thats my two cents, for all they're worth, but i really do think there's a lot of potential thats not getting tapped, and it would be great to see the scene grow to new heights.
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Owwmykneecap wrote: »I blame strekken.
I see where you are going..... sort of. But that was kinda my point. When i started - or at least when I got involved, it was SF...... with a Marvel side note. Thankfully Marvel seemed to compliement the scene but the more and more games that came out and the longer it went on, it just seemed to fracture it a bit.
@Shoes - A more structured approach to the committee was put forward when the original committee setup. I think what we did was what could have been done at that time and the next step is for a more formalised way of running the community. I do remember putting forward the idea of writing articles of association, or basically, the whats, whens, who's etc.
I do feel, without any disrespect to the lads, we need a new vote for a new committee - just to freshen it up and also to be more inclusive and maybe evolve it on a bit. Could very well be the same guys who get it, but unless we have the AGM, the vote, the monthly or quarterly meeting its difficult to get momentum.
Not sure about a bank a/c, surely a pillow under a mattress is fine for the monies we are talking about. Revenue, bank fees, etc.
@Mackdaddi - good stuff. The problem of who does what and how can we support each other in that is still present though. This is where the fundamental problem is. There are a few who do and loads who don't. I really am not having a go. Lots of people talk but there its always the regular few who actually do it. This needs to expand in order to grow cause it is unfair and people will be pissed off constantly being the only ones. As for sponsorship - good idea, hard to get especially given our size. I tried to get some for each of the EVO Quals but my requests mostly feel on deaf ears. We nearly had Capcom giving us prizes this year but alas it feel through. Good idea, but not as easy to get as you might think.
randomselect.ie - This is something we need to address. The website needs constant content updates. Really these responsibilities should be managed by the committee. i.e. theres a webby guy on it that co ordinates it but we should be all committed. The series of knowing me knowing you was class but it should be for all community members. Also, all the vids shoul dbe on it. YT can archive, but there should be a vids section imho
Sorry bout the length, I'll finish up with a mental and radical idea........ What if we had a yearly/monthly fee to join the FGC? I know, the neigh sayers will come out in their droves on this one, but I am really not talking anything big and it would facilitate planning and allow the purchase of equip, rental of venues in advance (we could even pre-book and have a proper schedule). We got 80 people registered for the EVO quals on the website. Say we have 100 or so in the community and all put 20 quid for the year..... That'd buy all/most of the equip necessary in the first year and contribute towards other expenses as well. I know this idea will meet resistance but I think it could really be to our benefit.0 -
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Actually when you started playing it was BB, but the point still standsI see where you are going..... sort of. But that was kinda my point. When i started - or at least when I got involved, it was SF...... with a Marvel side note. Thankfully Marvel seemed to compliement the scene but the more and more games that came out and the longer it went on, it just seemed to fracture it a bit.@Shoes - A more structured approach to the committee was put forward when the original committee setup. I think what we did was what could have been done at that time and the next step is for a more formalised way of running the community. I do remember putting forward the idea of writing articles of association, or basically, the whats, whens, who's etc.
I'd agree mainly, although I don't think you're ever going to get people writing official articles of association and whatnot. At the end of the day, most people just want to play video games, and their helping out with other tasks is to ensure there are further opportunities to play video games!I do feel, without any disrespect to the lads, we need a new vote for a new committee - just to freshen it up and also to be more inclusive and maybe evolve it on a bit. Could very well be the same guys who get it, but unless we have the AGM, the vote, the monthly or quarterly meeting its difficult to get momentum.
Completely agree.Not sure about a bank a/c, surely a pillow under a mattress is fine for the monies we are talking about. Revenue, bank fees, etc.
Me too, see again point of people wanting to play the vidja games.@Mackdaddi - good stuff. The problem of who does what and how can we support each other in that is still present though. This is where the fundamental problem is. There are a few who do and loads who don't. I really am not having a go. Lots of people talk but there its always the regular few who actually do it. This needs to expand in order to grow cause it is unfair and people will be pissed off constantly being the only ones. As for sponsorship - good idea, hard to get especially given our size. I tried to get some for each of the EVO Quals but my requests mostly feel on deaf ears. We nearly had Capcom giving us prizes this year but alas it feel through. Good idea, but not as easy to get as you might think.
randomselect.ie - This is something we need to address. The website needs constant content updates. Really these responsibilities should be managed by the committee. i.e. theres a webby guy on it that co ordinates it but we should be all committed. The series of knowing me knowing you was class but it should be for all community members. Also, all the vids shoul dbe on it. YT can archive, but there should be a vids section imho
All agreed, except the vids do already filter up on to rs.ie.Sorry bout the length, I'll finish up with a mental and radical idea........ What if we had a yearly/monthly fee to join the FGC? I know, the neigh sayers will come out in their droves on this one, but I am really not talking anything big and it would facilitate planning and allow the purchase of equip, rental of venues in advance (we could even pre-book and have a proper schedule). We got 80 people registered for the EVO quals on the website. Say we have 100 or so in the community and all put 20 quid for the year..... That'd buy all/most of the equip necessary in the first year and contribute towards other expenses as well. I know this idea will meet resistance but I think it could really be to our benefit.
And what do we do if people don't pay? Don't let them play in tournaments?0 -
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