Zeroing range

tcac

Hi Lads,

I'm thinking of opening a zeroing range in meath about 10 mins from navan. This will be indoors with a range of 150 metres fully closed in so there will be no breeze or wind to affect the bullets. I think this is needed but before i open such a place i was wondering what you think? I personally think its needed cause i dont know of any other but would like your views too.

Invincible

It seems a good idea.
What do you intend charging for use of facility?
Will you have any dificulty getting insurance or planning permission?

bazza888

i reckon most lads wouldnt pay just to zero there rifles as they can do that whereever they hunt etc it will be a members club?
i hope it works out for you!!

lb1981

I think itis a great idea and a handy option for lads but i would say you are going to find it hard to get permission to open it

deerhunter1

tcac wrote: »

Hi Lads,

I'm thinking of opening a zeroing range in meath about 10 mins from navan. This will be indoors with a range of 150 metres fully closed in so there will be no breeze or wind to affect the bullets. I think this is needed but before i open such a place i was wondering what you think? I personally think its needed cause i dont know of any other but would like your views too.

Well the best of luck to you, I hope you succeed, pity so far from me. You will have serious health and safety issues I would say, ventilation, extractors to draw out fumes/lead residue etc.

juice1304

and it's not possible to have day memberships either.

Cass

Congrats on your ambition.

To open a range you need planning permission, including clearance/approval from all surrounding buildings/homes, etc. Then you need to apply for your range license (€1,000). After this you need to adhere to the new Range SI's (622/2011).

This will outline the size of the berms, their make, baffles, size of firing points, etc, etc. It's also worth noting that any firearm/rifle capable of hitting or exceeding 4500 joules cannot be fired on a range of less than 300 metres. This could limit the type, and amount of firearms allowed to be fired on your proposed range.

Also as an indoor range there are other standards, and restrictions that need to be adhered to. Any range with a covering that extends 15 metres (IIRC) is classed as an indoor range. Irrespective if the remainder of the range is "exposed". For the type of range you are thinking off there will be extra safety measures for sound, side walls, ricochets, ventilation, etc. Honestly i don't know of any indoor range for centrefire rifles so this will all be new territory.

Then there are the technicalities or miscellaneous items. Such as RCO (Range Control Officer), ROs (Range Officers), members, fees, accounts, etc. Each range must have an RCO. This RCO then appoints ROs that are trained to run the day to day ranges of th range. There must be a minimum number of members (5 i think, and all must be full time members as day membership is not allowed), the range must have a safety statement, fees set out, opening hours, etc. There could be an issue with the range as in it beinng a "business". Of this i am not so clear, but there must be trustees that act as chairman, secretary, treasurer, etc. Any monies coming into the range be be keep track of so an accountant will be necesssary, and possibly a tax clearance cert, etc. Again i'm not overly familiar with the business end of running a range so apologies if some of the last few items i mentioned do not apply.


Throughout the process you must keep in contact with the DoJ, and have regular inspections to make sure everything is up to spec before proceeding with the next step.


Once again i applaud your ambition, and intentions, and i by no mean intend to "put a damper" on it. However it is not a walk in the park, and for the range you intend you will be breaking new ground in terms of what can and cannot be done.


My advice would be to contact the DoJ/An Gardaí. Ask to speak to the man in charge of ranges. Organise a sit down with him, and see what would be involved. Also it might be no harm to visit a few ranges, and talk to the owners/runners of the ranges. They will tell you what they had to go through, and what cost was involved in doing so.


Best of luck though, and hope it works out for you if you go ahead with it.

tcac

Hi Ezridax,

Infact thanks all for your reply but i'm quite aware of whats needed to open a range and everything you spoke about. I'm not giving out to you in fact i want to applaude you on your knowledge and would like to thank you for such an in depth reply, maybe your reply might help others. In fact i have already started meetings with local authorities.

The zeroing range will not be the only thing on site but just that something extra that i taught might be needed for people especially on rainy days.

To answer other peoples questions was thinking of charging aroun €25 to €30 per hour this is mainly needed for the cost of lighting such a vast space

I will be also looking for as ezridaz said range officers and also want to set up a club so if anyone who has previous experience or who wants to get involved you can pm me and we can talk in private

garv123

If day membership is not allowed how will you be able to let people pay 25-30 euro per hour?

patsat

There was an episode of fieldsportschannel about a year ago where a famous rugby player went out for a stalk in england.

Before going out they went to a underground zero range and it was a great set-up that wouldn't cost a huge amount to construct. I had a quick look for the episode but couldn't find it. If you have time to spare look for it cause its worth a watch!

Best of luck, only other recommendation i would have is build it nearer me!

garv123

patsat wrote: »

There was an episode of fieldsportschannel about a year ago where a famous rugby player went out for a stalk in england.

Before going out they went to a underground zero range and it was a great set-up that wouldn't cost a huge amount to construct. I had a quick look for the episode but couldn't find it. If you have time to spare look for it cause its worth a watch!

Best of luck, only other recommendation i would have is build it nearer me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drmyFPqoGj0

patsat

I just found it and was going posting it!

garv123

patsat wrote: »

I just found it and was going posting it!

Just watched it there, there must be some serious bang and echo in there.

Its also open for booking from the public for £10 a hour.

Cass

At the risk of stating the obvious that's the UK. Different country, rules, laws, etc. Also, AFAIK, no limit on the caliber of firearm that can be used below 300 metres on a range.

Would be fantastic if such "zeroing" ranges could be built without much grief. It would certainly be an advantageous tool.

BELOWaverageIQ

garv123 wrote: »

If day membership is not allowed how will you be able to let people pay 25-30 euro per hour?

Charge an annual membership of €1 and a lighting fee of €25 per hour.

Sparks

garv123 wrote: »

If day membership is not allowed how will you be able to let people pay 25-30 euro per hour?

Same way most clubs do; you have an annual membership fee and a range fee when you use the range.

If you mean just showing up, paying the 25-30 euro for an hour and shooting away on a day membership, that's not possible, but something similar to it is:

Sparks wrote: »

After discussing this topic with the DoJ, we were able to outline the procedure for legally allowing people to shoot with unrestricted firearms (rifle, shotgun and pistol); but there is no legal way for that to happen with restricted firearms.

For the curious, the procedure is that it has to be on an authorised range, with club firearms, given to non-club members who have to either get instruction or be approved by a club instructor (and they have to use that firearm regularly or be re-certified). The club rules, the club insurance and the range licence conditions all have to allow for it as well.

In this case, for a zeroing range, a slightly different variant would work; the hunter turns up with their own rifle and shoots it under section 2(4)(d) with the club's permission; they have their own firearms cert, they are not members of the club or range (that's critical - they cannot buy a day membership of the club; the situation cannot arise where they can apply for a cert off the back of this kind of arrangement), and they a range fee (ie. not a membership fee of any kind). That arrangement would be exactly the same legal arrangement that covers running open matches (eg. I go to UCD to shoot in an NTSA airgun match with my own licenced airgun and I pay an entry fee that covers the running of the range for that day (and prizes and so forth); I'm not a member there, but its all legal under 2(4)(d)).

Note that this isn't considering things like insurance, the terms of the range authorisation, planning permission conditions, etc, etc...

bullets

Sparks wrote: »

If you mean just showing up, paying the 25-30 euro for an hour and shooting away on a day membership, that's not possible, but something similar to it is:

Hi Sparks, just wondering how does Day membership differ from the information you mentioned on the link ?

I'm not trying to pick holes in your information in fact if something like
that is allowed then surely its a route for other Ranges to do the same to
promote the sport by letting people try before they buy.
(unless its too much hassle or other ranges specifically don't want to do this
for various reasons)

Recently in work one of the lads was organizing his stag party and Rang
up a shooting grounds who offered him Clays and Rifle for a bunch
of lads that would have never fired a gun in their lives.
It surprised me that over the phone they asked him did they want to
try rifle aswell as the clays.

(I wont name the place, but it was different to the one in the Pistol Shooting thread where the link was removed, EDIT: including the place where the link was removed I can so far after a quick google see 5 different Irish websites advertising Rifle shooting to groups/stags/corporate outings)

~B

Sparks

bullets wrote: »

Hi Sparks, just wondering how does Day membership differ from the information you mentioned on the link ?

Day membership would let you go in and join for the day, then go submit an FCP1 on the strength of that; which the PTB find abhorrent.
The mechanism also prevents someone walking up and using a restricted firearm without a licence.

I'm not trying to pick holes in your information in fact if something like
that is allowed then surely its a route for other Ranges to do the same to
promote the sport by letting people try before they buy.

It's possible legally; that doesn't mean that their specific authorisations don't prohibit it; or that there aren't insurance or even range rules preventing it...

bullets

So from my reading of the information it means:

If certain shooting grounds/clubs/authorized ranges jump through all sort
of hoops to allow (including the proposed Zeroing range as offered by the OP) and are willing they can offer a service where:

Members of the Public that are NOT members of a Shooting Range or Club
can still legally walk in off the street and Pay money to Shoot Non Restricted
Firearms including Rifle and non-restricted Pistols for the day, without ever
needing to apply for being a member of a club/range or ever needing to apply for a firearms license,

It just means that anyone that might visit and shoot at a range/club on a day trip cant use that on a basis to apply for a license.

If true that sounds like HEAVEN to some people.
(But getting a nagging negative feeling that that's looking at things through rose tinted glasses)

Sorry for being a nag and questioning these things, I only shoot a handful of times a year
so not really active in the sport and dont know all the ins and outs of the laws when it
comes to the smallest details that could make major differences.

~B

Sparks

bullets wrote: »

Members of the Public that are NOT members of a Shooting Range or Club
can still legally walk in off the street and Pay money to Shoot Non Restricted
Firearms including Rifle and non-restricted Pistols for the day, without ever
needing to apply for being a member of a club/range or ever needing to apply for a firearms license,

Basicly, yes; with the proviso that those firearms be club firearms and that the club certify that the person is competent with them (though if the person shoots them regularly, that competence remains current and you don't need the instructor on every shoot).

tcac

garv123 thanks for that video really gave me some ideas, and navan is less than 30 mins from dublin now with the new motorway! lol

everyone else thanks for your replies too, i also am well aware what other sites are doing in fact i know one in wicklow that is offering claypigeon shooting, rifle shooting, bbq & airsofting all in one day for €55 i know when i started reading the law books on this sort of thing it was not allowed but obviously there is nobody governing it all

what i was thinking was that membership fee would be required but to have several different types ie a cheap one that would offer no frills and you would basically pay as you go from then on and an expensive one that had frills and basically gave you free zeroing and range uses but of course all to be confirmed.

Since i seen other clubs offering the general public walk ons and using shotguns, rifles and even pistols i personaly taught it was allowed but of course i would have to clear this with my local authority before i offered it out.

Oh and before anyone asks its probably gonna be 2013 till its open with all the red tape needed to cut through first lol

ianoo

best of luck to you ,
i hope it works out for ya,and when it does you might open a second one down around waterford :D

we need something like this badly ....

ian.........

BattleCorp

It's great to see somebody trying something like this. Best of luck with it if you get the go-ahead.

RayzorT3

Best of luck with the venture, navan is less than 20 mins from me so i could be a regular customer:D

Chesapeake

Looked into setting up a 600 or 800mtr range on the land back in 2006, soon gave up on that idea, would have been easier built a runway for the space shuttle to land on!

But, best of luck with your endeavour!

SasQuatch88

Hey man, good luck with the range, if you need a hand i don't live to far away from navan.. haha

tcac

SasQuatch88 wrote: »

Hey man, good luck with the range, if you need a hand i don't live to far away from navan.. haha

do you have any experience as a range officer or anything if so message me

endasmail

deadly idea
up the road from me
keep us posted