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What's your definition of democracy?

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  • 04-06-2012 10:10am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭


    Mine is that everyone gets a say in as much as possible, a la Switzerland - they can even vote on the position of the bus stops.

    What we actually have is an elected oligarchy, i.e, moneyed people are in positions of power (an oligarchy) based on their popularity. How specifically is that a democracy in any sense of the word? People who want to be in power are, by definition, the very people you don't want.

    My suggestion: 90% of government representatives are chosen at random from the population and given the same wage that were on before being given the role (i.e if you were on the dole you get dole money etc). That way people see the role as a pain rather than free money. The roles only last a year and acceptance of the role is mandatory.

    The role comes with a few conditions though. Firstly, everyone is educated in how government works, in theory and practice. Secondly, there are no expenses or perks. Thirdly, online voting is introduced along with petitions that, if enough interest is collected in the form of signatures, automatically generate an online referendum.

    That's genuine democracy. Any other ideas?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Sue we live in a democracy OP.

    Just look at how Enda and big Phil change the laws, to make sure they don't break the law :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Confab wrote: »
    Mine is that everyone gets a say in as much as possible, a la Switzerland - they can even vote on the position of the bus stops.

    How do you deal with the NIMBY brigade?

    Even when a project is needed and vital there will always be objections
    Thirdly, online voting is introduced along with petitions that, if enough interest is collected in the form of signatures, automatically generate an online referendum.

    And then everything goes to the cities
    How does Clare keep their county hospital if 50,000 people in Limerick outvote them and want the resources in Limerick regional?
    Clare never had a chance

    Just an example


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Confab wrote: »
    Mine is that everyone gets a say in as much as possible, a la Switzerland - they can even vote on the position of the bus stops.

    What we actually have is an elected oligarchy, i.e, moneyed people are in positions of power (an oligarchy) based on their popularity. How specifically is that a democracy in any sense of the word? People who want to be in power are, by definition, the very people you don't want.

    My suggestion: 90% of government representatives are chosen at random from the population and given the same wage that were on before being given the role (i.e if you were on the dole you get dole money etc). That way people see the role as a pain rather than free money. The roles only last a year and acceptance of the role is mandatory.

    The role comes with a few conditions though. Firstly, everyone is educated in how government works, in theory and practice. Secondly, there are no expenses or perks. Thirdly, online voting is introduced along with petitions that, if enough interest is collected in the form of signatures, automatically generate an online referendum.

    That's genuine democracy. Any other ideas?


    Yeah, cause I want johnno off the dole and into the role of Taoiseach. Makes sense.

    We do not have an oligarchy. You can run in the next election if you so wish, but I would imagine that nobody will vote for you if these are your policies :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Confab wrote: »
    Mine is that everyone gets a say in as much as possible, a la Switzerland - they can even vote on the position of the bus stops.

    What we actually have is an elected oligarchy, i.e, moneyed people are in positions of power (an oligarchy) based on their popularity. How specifically is that a democracy in any sense of the word? People who want to be in power are, by definition, the very people you don't want.

    My suggestion: 90% of government representatives are chosen at random from the population and given the same wage that were on before being given the role (i.e if you were on the dole you get dole money etc). That way people see the role as a pain rather than free money. The roles only last a year and acceptance of the role is mandatory.

    The role comes with a few conditions though. Firstly, everyone is educated in how government works, in theory and practice. Secondly, there are no expenses or perks. Thirdly, online voting is introduced along with petitions that, if enough interest is collected in the form of signatures, automatically generate an online referendum.

    That's genuine democracy. Any other ideas?
    That just seems like to much work for me
    I prefer a system where we have one ruler who nobody questions and he makes all the decides without any input from the people.
    Also online voting how would you make that secure?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Joshua J


    The illusion of choice.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    what's your definition of chair?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Battered Mars Bar


    Abortions for some, miniature flags for others.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Jester252 wrote: »
    I prefer a system where we have one ruler who nobody questions and he makes all the decides without any input from the people.

    Like a King?

    Well you'll get a job anyway :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    How do you deal with the NIMBY brigade?

    Even when a project is needed and vital there will always be objections



    And then everything goes to the cities
    How does Clare keep their county hospital if 50,000 people in Limerick outvote them and want the resources in Limerick regional?
    Clare never had a chance

    Just an example

    Same as Switzerland, you can only vote on issues of national or local importance. If you're in Dublin you can't vote on something that's happening locally in Donegal. A referendum wouldn't involve the same drawn out whiny crap it does here. Local referendums for local decisions, national referendums for national ones. National referendums would be quite rare.

    By the way, all of this (bar the mandatory government appointments) happens in Switzerland in practice, it's not just pie in the sky stuff.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Like a King?

    Well you'll get a job anyway :)

    No.
    Like a BOSS! :D


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Confab wrote: »
    Same as Switzerland, you can only vote on issues of national or local importance. If you're in Dublin you can't vote on something that's happening locally in Donegal. A referendum wouldn't involve the same drawn out whiny crap it does here. Local referendums for local decisions, national referendums for national ones. National referendums would be quite rare.

    By the way, all of this (bar the mandatory government appointments) happens in Switzerland in practice, it's not just pie in the sky stuff.


    So Dublin could vote to keep all of it's money locally then, as opposed to funding the poorer parts of Ireland (i.e. the rest of it)? I'd be for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    So Dublin could vote to keep all of it's money locally then, as opposed to funding the poorer parts of Ireland (i.e. the rest of it)? I'd be for that.

    Wicklow could sell the water to Dublin, make a fortune

    And if the Dubs want our Shannon water well they will have to pay for that too


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    Wicklow could sell the water to Dublin, make a fortune

    And if the Dubs want our Shannon water well they will have to pay for that too

    I vote to invade Wicklow and steal their water! And if that doesn't work, I vote to poison the water supply! Take that, Wicklah!


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,433 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Who votes for tax increases if needed.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    kneemos wrote: »
    Who votes for tax increases if needed.

    Eh don't you know that taxes never need to go up? Unless, of course, the oligarchy feel like lining their pockets some more. Pft


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    kneemos wrote: »
    Who votes for tax increases if needed.

    The federal government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,403 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    A system of illusion to give the masses the impression that they have freedom.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Confab wrote: »
    The federal government.

    You mean, like the Dáil?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    You mean, like the Dáil?

    You didn't read my OP, did you?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Confab wrote: »
    You didn't read my OP, did you?

    I sure did. Can you point me towards the part I seem to be missing?

    I am a political science student, though. So you'll have to excuse my dimwittedness ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,433 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Confab wrote: »
    The federal government.

    So the people are capable of voting, just not on important issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I am a political science student, though.

    You lot will be the first against the wall


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,433 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    You lot will be the first against the wall

    Think it's a democracy were talking about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,403 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    You lot will be the first against the wall

    In fairness, he said "political" science. Politics doesn't automatcially imply democracy. Beyond that, this is a bit like killing the weatheran because it rains too much.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,230 ✭✭✭Leftist


    love the idea some people have that democracy is removing all government involvement in society :D

    yes because left to our own devices the wealthy will be only happy to share the power.

    absolute jokers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    All the idiots voting for the candidate who makes the biggest claims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    Voting people into power and having little or no say in most of their decisions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭recylingbin


    1. Stick numbers by the names of useless, workshy retards
    2. Watch one or more of them get elected
    3. Watch as they get a new phone, new suits, new car, attend functions with business leaders where no favours are done.
    4. Listen to them talking about subjects that are way above their comprehension.
    5. Read in the paper how they have expenses that are almost twice the average industrial wage. That's alot of petrol and steak.
    6. Pay more tax.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Suryavarman


    kneemos wrote: »
    Who votes for tax increases if needed.

    Tax increases are never needed.


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